Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)

[codyg1985]

Technically, I-105 in Los Angeles doesn't connect with its parent but instead with I-405, I-110, and I-605.

[NE2]

Yes. Lots of precedent.

[Alex]

Yes. Lots of precedent.

Yes any of the X78's in NYC. The lack of a direct connect between I-422 and 22 is a terrain issue. 2026 for a potential starting date is likely ambitious too...

[codyg1985]

I honestly don't expect to see this road finished in my lifetime. Maybe portions of it will be built, but with the expense of building in difficult terrain and the lack of revenue to build roads, I just don't see it being finished.

[Grzrd]

This December 19 TV video report includes a depiction of an "Alabama" I-422 shield and the startling revelation that the Beltline is being funded by the Appalachian Trail project ... 

It also points to the land holdings of US Steel, Drummond, and other large companies that might have an accelerated appreciation in value if the Beltline is built.

[Grzrd]

This December 19 TV video report .... points to the land holdings of US Steel, Drummond, and other large companies that might have an accelerated appreciation in value if the Beltline is built.

This blog from DC.StreetsBlog.org is highly critical of the Northern Beltline and also points to the land holdings.

[codyg1985]

As expensive as the route is, I feel that the bypass would take some traffic off of the Birmingham interstates. How much isn't certain, but it should help, especially with the I-65 North to I-20/59 South movement, I-65 North to I-20 East, and possibly through I-65 traffic. Since through traffic modeling/truck traffic modeling is very hard to do, you can't just say that the models predict that it will do little to help traffic in the Birmingham area.

I am skeptical of the economic benefits of the road, however, at least those that would be tangible for everyday folks.

[Strider]

The beltway is not needed. The money could be spent on improving and if possible, widening I-65 and I-59/I-20 and some roads around the town. over $1 billion for the beltway.. I wouldn't want to spend that much just to build a beltway around the city.. especially with the terrain there. IMO.

[codyg1985]

If I had to choose between one and the other, I would choose rebuilding the existing interstates for sure, including rebuilding the I-20/59/65 interchange.

[froggie]

Though it seems to be dead at this point, extending I-22 to I-20/59 near the airport would do far more for traffic than the Northern Beltline ever would.  I also don't think think there's enough traffic utilizing those through movements Cody mentioned for the Northern Beltline to make enough of a dent at Malfunction Junction.  An I-22 extension would have much more of an impact at Malfunction Junction than the Northern Beltline, because it could also be used for in-metro travel as well as through traffic.  Northern Beltline doesn't do anything for the in-metro traffic.

[Tourian]

Northern Beltline doesn't do anything for the in-metro traffic.

Why wouldn't it? People particularly heavy trucks can go around instead of coming through. If it doesn't help here, it doesn't help anywhere in an city with a complete loop.

[froggie]

Why wouldn't it? People particularly heavy trucks can go around instead of coming through. If it doesn't help here, it doesn't help anywhere in an city with a complete loop.

Put another way, the Northern Beltline doesn't do squat for folks going from Adamsville to Mountain Brook.  Or from Gardendale to Irondale.  Or to/from just about any other location within 10 miles of downtown.

"Particularly heavy trucks" are not a significant part of metropolitan area traffic.  You're not going to divert enough through traffic around town to alleviate the traffic issues within town.

[Strider]

I agree. Like others said, I am for extending I-22 to tie to the I-20/59 near the split (i know the cemetery is in the way at the split so it wouldn't make sense to tie I-22 directly at the trumpet interchange)

But, using that money to improve the malfunction junction should be done. Why the city didn't do that is beyond me. The interchange needs to be modified/improved.

[BamaZeus]

I agree in that modifying Malfunction Junction would do more good than people know.  Most of the wrecks are caused by people going too fast around the curves or having to quickly move onto a ramp.  I'd like to think that by straightening it out, and maybe eliminating the left exits, that it would prevent any more trucks toppling over, and reduce some of the imminent danger throughout the intersection.

An example of the insanity: if you're coming from 65 south and want to go to the BJCC, you have about 1000 feet to successfully cross 5 lanes of traffic to get off at that first exit. 

Myself, I've said before that I'd like to see 20/59 buried under the streets from Malfunction Junction past Red Mountain Expressway, maybe all the way past Tallapoosa St, and widened underground, but that's a pipe dream to be sure. 

It also might benefit a potential I-22 junction near the airport.  Like I've mentioned before, maybe you could go under the airport to make the connection at the 20/59 split and straighten out that curve as well.  But, I don't know if you could even legally build a road under an airport like that with all the Homeland Security regulations, etc.

[NE2]

It also might benefit a potential I-22 junction near the airport.  Like I've mentioned before, maybe you could go under the airport to make the connection at the 20/59 split and straighten out that curve as well.  But, I don't know if you could even legally build a road under an airport like that with all the Homeland Security regulations, etc.

Roads pass under runways and taxiways all the time.

[rmshiflett]

Hopefully whenever in the next 30 years the northern beltloop is built, it will attract commerce along the interstate itself, but I especially hope it will help boost the economy of towns of northwestern Jefferson county, as it has lagged in economic development and has hardly attracted any businesses, as compared to the southern portions of birmingham. I am from the NW part of Jefferson Co myself and I grow sick sometimes of seeing Hoover, Homewood, Mtn Brook, etc., have major businesses move into the area while areas such as Adamsville, Graysville, Brookside, etc., rarely see any businesses at all move into the area. This plays a major factor in why NW Jefferson Co is poorer than the rest of the county and hopefully I-422 will at least somewhat bring development around to this area. Most people that actually earn a decent amount of money in this area work in the southern or eastern portions of birmingham, because there are much more businesses and job opportunities there. It would be beneficial if major businesses would start popping up in this part of birmimgham, but it's probably not going to happen soon without I-422.

[lordsutch]

Frankly most of the benefits of the northern beltline could be achieved by just extending I-459 to I-65 north, making it possible for all Interstate traffic to bypass Malfunction Junction (I-22 thru traffic could just go up I-65 north to the extended I-459).  A full belt really isn't necessary.

As for I-22 extending to I-20/59 (which probably would also help), you could probably pull it off by just continuing southeast from I-65; you don't need a direct tie-in with I-20 east, just meet up with 20/59 west of the airport and put in some C/D roads along that section to serve the airport and 40th Street exits.  No need to tunnel under the airport or cemetery.

[codyg1985]

Hopefully whenever in the next 30 years the northern beltloop is built, it will attract commerce along the interstate itself, but I especially hope it will help boost the economy of towns of northwestern Jefferson county, as it has lagged in economic development and has hardly attracted any businesses, as compared to the southern portions of birmingham. I am from the NW part of Jefferson Co myself and I grow sick sometimes of seeing Hoover, Homewood, Mtn Brook, etc., have major businesses move into the area while areas such as Adamsville, Graysville, Brookside, etc., rarely see any businesses at all move into the area. This plays a major factor in why NW Jefferson Co is poorer than the rest of the county and hopefully I-422 will at least somewhat bring development around to this area. Most people that actually earn a decent amount of money in this area work in the southern or eastern portions of birmingham, because there are much more businesses and job opportunities there. It would be beneficial if major businesses would start popping up in this part of birmimgham, but it's probably not going to happen soon without I-422.

I grew up northwest of where you are from in Walker County, and I too grew jealous of seeing the SE portion of the Birmingham metro prosper while the side we are on suffered. Unfortunately, I think it will take more than a road to make things better. The drug/meth problem is a big problem that I think should be taken care of, but of course that lies beyond the scope of this thread and this forum.

I think I-459 did play a huge role in making the south suburbs of Birmingham what they are now, but I think the movement southward was already happening; I-459 just made it even more attractive. Even with I-22, I don't know what would come out that way unless someone with a lot of money was able to flatten a lot of land to build something on.

[Charles2]

I think the biggest drawback to I-422 as it is planned now is that it is so far west and northwest of downtown Birmingham to really do anything to alleviate congestion through the city.  And on top of that, the NE section of the planned route really doesn't serve a need, real or imagined, unless it were to extend down to I-20 in or around Leeds.  I really doubt that a lot of travelers pass through Birmingham via I-65 southbound to take I-59 northbound towards Gadsden and Chattanooga.

There probably is a need for the NW section of the route, if for any other reason than to divert traffic out of downtown that might be heading from Tuscaloosa towards Huntsville and Nashville.  Still, since so many of freight yards for the trucking companies are located near I-20/59 in Pratt City, it's doubtful that as many trucks would avail themselves of this route as one might expect.

[froggie]

I think the biggest drawback to I-422 as it is planned now is that it is so far west and northwest of downtown Birmingham to really do anything to alleviate congestion through the city.

Of course not.  Its primary purpose is to spur development in northwest Jefferson County, not alleviate congestion.  Anyone who argues otherwise is just blowing smoke.

And on top of that, the NE section of the planned route really doesn't serve a need, real or imagined, unless it were to extend down to I-20 in or around Leeds.

Concur, but even if it were extended to Leeds, extending I-22 southeast to I-20/59 would serve the same purpose.  3 miles vs. 30 miles...you do the math.

There probably is a need for the NW section of the route, if for any other reason than to divert traffic out of downtown that might be heading from Tuscaloosa towards Huntsville and Nashville.  Still, since so many of freight yards for the trucking companies are located near I-20/59 in Pratt City, it's doubtful that as many trucks would avail themselves of this route as one might expect.

Only if they were forced to...ala what they already require for I-20/59 through trucks, that they use I-459.

However, it'd be much cheaper and more cost-effective to smooth out the I-20/59 lane changes (either side of US 78 has always bothered me) and redo Malfunction Junction.  That would provide much more benefit to EVERYBODY than building the NW part of the Beltline ever would.

[Charles2]

Only if they were forced to...ala what they already require for I-20/59 through trucks, that they use I-459.

However, it'd be much cheaper and more cost-effective to smooth out the I-20/59 lane changes (either side of US 78 has always bothered me) and redo Malfunction Junction.  That would provide much more benefit to EVERYBODY than building the NW part of the Beltline ever would.

If only they would widen I-20/59 from Bessemer to Ensley.  Six lanes would be nice; eight would be even better.  And then take care of I-59 from East Lake to Trussville or beyond.

[Tourian]

Why wouldn't it? People particularly heavy trucks can go around instead of coming through. If it doesn't help here, it doesn't help anywhere in an city with a complete loop.

Put another way, the Northern Beltline doesn't do squat for folks going from Adamsville to Mountain Brook.  Or from Gardendale to Irondale.  Or to/from just about any other location within 10 miles of downtown.

"Particularly heavy trucks" are not a significant part of metropolitan area traffic.  You're not going to divert enough through traffic around town to alleviate the traffic issues within town.

It is a bypass. It is not for metro area traffic. It is for people passing through from somewhere else to somewhere else outside the city or outside the state. So that means "particularly heavy trucks" and travelers from anywhere else.

[froggie]

Since you're bringing up an old comment, please re-read the second line of mine in that old comment you quoted.  That is why the Northern Beltline is financially foolish.

[Tourian]

Since you're bringing up an old comment, please re-read the second line of mine in that old comment you quoted.  That is why the Northern Beltline is financially foolish.

I responded to an old comment directed to me. It's not like I resurrected a dead thread. You don't build a bypass for the benefit of metro traffic, it is just a byproduct that it helps since you remove some interstate traffic from the junction and you then put up signs that let the truckers passing through know they HAVE to use it. So that helps everybody.

[froggie]

It doesn't help enough to be cost-effective.  That's been my point since the get-go.