Bypass Routes as Bad as or Worse Than What They Bypass

[kkt]

How about M25 around London?

Really?  I've never been there, but I thought a bypass via nine circles of hell would be faster than driving through central London?

[lordsutch]

How about M25 around London?

Most of the M25 actually functions reasonably well, especially considering how underbuilt the rest of London's motorway/high-speed dual-carriageway system is; the parts that don't (most notably, the notorious section between the M3 and M4) are links that were supposed to have alternative options (e.g. the M31) that didn't get built due to a combination of NIMBYism and budget crises.

[theline]

I think the same can be said of highways like 294 in Chicago...

I beg to differ on I-294 around Chicago.  If you've ever had to deal with the heel of the Circle Interchange (on-peak or off-peak), I-294 is most definitely better than what it bypasses.

It depends entirely on the time of day and whatever activities are taking place downtown. I regularly visit family and friends in Michigan, and usually taking I-294 around Chicago is smoother and faster than going through downtown.

However, I occasionally can get away with following I-90 right through downtown and onto the Chicago Skyway - and when I can, that ends up being the fastest route. The Indiana Toll Road has the added bonus of a 70 mph speed limit on most of the stretch between the Skyway and I-94.

I agree entirely that the Skyway/Loop route can often be faster than the Tri-State. I'm old enough to remember when this definitely was not the case. In the '60s and into the early '70s, 294 was still partly rural and traffic always moved along, except perhaps at the toll booths. It's a perfect example of what the OP asked.

If we are including non-freeway bypasses, Indiana was notorious for building them in the '50s and '60s, only to have them engulfed in suburban sprawl. The (first) Kokomo bypass was already mentioned. I'd add to that Anderson, Bloomington, Columbus, Ft. Wayne (old US 30), Marion, Plymouth (US 30), Valparaiso, and Warsaw. I'm surely forgetting some.

[bugo]

I always hated I-469 around Ft. Wayne if you were following it as through traffic for US-24 or US-30. 

Yes, it kept you moving vs. following the old highways through downtown or via Coliseum Blvd., but it took you so far out of the way.  I still think you make better time just going through town on the surface streets. 

I've always thought that I-469 doesn't really help anyone unless they're looking to get to the south side of Fort Wayne or New Haven. It's not good as a bypass since it's longer than staying on the parent. At least INDOT likes it because it allows them to save mileage by routing US 24, 27, 30, and 33 around Fort Wayne instead of through it.

Doesn't 27 still go through town?

[codyg1985]

I always hated I-469 around Ft. Wayne if you were following it as through traffic for US-24 or US-30. 

Yes, it kept you moving vs. following the old highways through downtown or via Coliseum Blvd., but it took you so far out of the way.  I still think you make better time just going through town on the surface streets. 

I've always thought that I-469 doesn't really help anyone unless they're looking to get to the south side of Fort Wayne or New Haven. It's not good as a bypass since it's longer than staying on the parent. At least INDOT likes it because it allows them to save mileage by routing US 24, 27, 30, and 33 around Fort Wayne instead of through it.

Doesn't 27 still go through town?

Yes, I believe it does.

[theline]

I always hated I-469 around Ft. Wayne if you were following it as through traffic for US-24 or US-30. 

Yes, it kept you moving vs. following the old highways through downtown or via Coliseum Blvd., but it took you so far out of the way.  I still think you make better time just going through town on the surface streets. 

I've always thought that I-469 doesn't really help anyone unless they're looking to get to the south side of Fort Wayne or New Haven. It's not good as a bypass since it's longer than staying on the parent. At least INDOT likes it because it allows them to save mileage by routing US 24, 27, 30, and 33 around Fort Wayne instead of through it.

Doesn't 27 still go through town?

Yes, I believe it does.

It's probably next on INDOT's hit list to get rubbed out. 

[pianocello]

I-474 in Peoria fits this thread in my experience, not because of the development near it (heh, never thought I'd say that. In fact, development still hasn't made it that far southwest), but for the fact that I-74 through town isn't that bad. Time-wise, it's almost exactly the same, factoring in the lower speed limit in the city, and there's not much congestion at all. Of course, before the big construction project in the early 2000s, 474 was significantly better than taking 74.

[mrsman]

As a bypass of philly I-295 has one flaw, it gets mixed in with I-76 traffic, causing traffic jams, that makes it almost as bad as I-95 through philly during rush hour, due to that one bottleneck. It is being fixed, so overall it may be better than I-95 but once the traffic jam starts, it isn't much better.

I think that part of the idea there is that NJ would encourage people to use the turnpike and pay $$$ to bypass 295.

[Fred Defender]

The 285 in Atlanta. If I drive through the city on I-75, I get traffic half of the way, either to or from downtown depending on the time of day. If I take the 285, I get traffic the whole way around no matter what time of day.

Absolutely!

When I was a kid in the late-1960s/early-70s and would make the trip from Florida to Ohio with my parents, we always took I-285 which was known then as the
Atlanta Bypass". Unless it was the middle of the night, travel through the city was something to be avoided.

Nowadays (and for the past 30 years), unless I am headed to Gwinett from the south, I NEVER drive 285. And I haven't even been on the west side perimeter since the 80's.

But I know for a fact that this isn't unique to Atlanta. I-695 around Baltimore sucks, too.

[jwolfer]

The 285 in Atlanta. If I drive through the city on I-75, I get traffic half of the way, either to or from downtown depending on the time of day. If I take the 285, I get traffic the whole way around no matter what time of day.

Most "bypass" routes on interstates are this way.(295 around Jacksonville is as bad as 95 in terms if traffic) A change in demographics since WWII. At the time of interstate highway planning suburb to suburb commutes, multi-car families, dual bread winners etc were not part of the culture

[NE2]

Most "bypass" routes on interstates are this way.(295 around Jacksonville is as bad as 95 in terms if traffic)

Even the new east side?

[jwolfer]

Most "bypass" routes on interstates are this way.(295 around Jacksonville is as bad as 95 in terms if traffic)

Even the new east side?

At rush hour yes. Most of it is 4 lanes.

[vdeane]

The 285 in Atlanta. If I drive through the city on I-75, I get traffic half of the way, either to or from downtown depending on the time of day. If I take the 285, I get traffic the whole way around no matter what time of day.

Most "bypass" routes on interstates are this way.(295 around Jacksonville is as bad as 95 in terms if traffic) A change in demographics since WWII. At the time of interstate highway planning suburb to suburb commutes, multi-car families, dual bread winners etc were not part of the culture

It's interesting to think of how much less congestion we would have today if only the 50s planners could have anticipated the cultural changes that would happen.  A few weeks ago the Democrat and Chronicle in Rochester published a story about the infamous "can of worms".  A point was mentioned that, because planners had thought all the growth was going to be on the west side, even when the interchange was built, expected traffic volumes were already higher than the planners had though the interchange would ever have to handle in its lifetime.  An engineer was even quoted as saying that there would be no ribbon cutting because they were just going to open it and then run away and hide.

[froggie]

Cultural changes are only part of it.  There's still the funding situation.  Though citizens appear to have been more open to tax increases back then than they are now, they still would have required increased revenue in order to build even the freeway plans that were proposed at the time.  In my research, there have been some high-profile freeway opposition cases, yes.  But lack of funding killed more freeways off than opposition did...

[OCGuy81]

It's interesting to think of how much less congestion we would have today if only the 50s planners could have anticipated the cultural changes that would happen.

That WOULD be interesting to see how different the freeway layout of a city is, if the exodus to the burbs and sprawl had been taken into consideration back in the early years of freeways.  I'd say that would actually be a really cool topic to bring up in Fictional Highways.  See what others think a city's system would look like if the planners knew then what we know now.

[cpzilliacus]

I-695 around Baltimore sucks, too.

The part of I-695 that runs north of town (past the two interchanges with I-83) is frequently congested.

But the south side of I-695 is usually not that bad, especially between I-97 and the northeast I-95 stack interchange near Overlea, though there is a toll to cross the F.S. Key Bridge.

[StogieGuy7]

I agree entirely that the Skyway/Loop route can often be faster than the Tri-State. I'm old enough to remember when this definitely was not the case. In the '60s and into the early '70s, 294 was still partly rural and traffic always moved along, except perhaps at the toll booths. It's a perfect example of what the OP asked.

If we are including non-freeway bypasses, Indiana was notorious for building them in the '50s and '60s, only to have them engulfed in suburban sprawl. The (first) Kokomo bypass was already mentioned. I'd add to that Anderson, Bloomington, Columbus, Ft. Wayne (old US 30), Marion, Plymouth (US 30), Valparaiso, and Warsaw. I'm surely forgetting some.

I don't agree with this and am scratching my head as to how this is even debatable.  Perhaps it depends on where you're coming from and going.  In my case, I live off of I-94 well north of Chicago and to get from here to the post-apocalyptic world of NW Indiana, going through Chicago is only better in the middle of the night or during a few short midday hours (if you're lucky).  And, by better, I mean: better because it cuts off about 20 miles.   Time saving, but never at a faster speed than 294.

Yes, the Tri-State can have some traffic issues (the daily 'mystery stop' originating in Bensenville comes to mind), but those are dwarfed by the traffic disaster that the Chicago expressways represent.  It can easily take over an hour to get from O'Hare to downtown (or vice versa), and with that level of congestion, you can take a lot of delays on the Tri-State and still save time.   More often that not, I can get from Gurnee to Hammond without ever slowing below 65 mph the entire way.  I can't ever say that if I follow I-94 to the Skyway - even in the middle of the night. 

So no, I don't see how anyone here can cite I-294 as being worse than what it bypasses.  Because traffic in Chicago can be incredible, with the expressways choked in each direction at any given time.

[roadman65]

The Osceola Parkway is now almost as bad as US 192, the road that is supposed to bypass in Kissimmee, FL. 

Soon the Baldwin Beach Express might be as bad as AL 59, as it was not built to freeway standards after being built.  This allowing for future sprawl and development.

I think that IN 931 should be used as a poster item, to show what happens when you do not build the right type of bypass around a city or community.  Built in the late 50's to alleviate congestion along the original routing through town, then later commercial development brought new businesses to bring the same amount of traffic to the bypass as the old route to warrant another bypass.

[codyg1985]

Soon the Baldwin Beach Express might be as bad as AL 59, as it was not built to freeway standards after being built.  This allowing for future sprawl and development.

If the bridge was to be tolled, then I don't see why building a tolled freeway facility for the Foley Beach/Baldwin Beach Express didn't occur to people. But wait, this is for ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT! 

I think that IN 931 should be used as a poster item, to show what happens when you do not build the right type of bypass around a city or community.  Built in the late 50's to alleviate congestion along the original routing through town, then later commercial development brought new businesses to bring the same amount of traffic to the bypass as the old route to warrant another bypass.

The bypass of US 78 in Jasper is a great example, too. Original route went through downtown, bypass was built in the 60
s and 70's with no access control, so it becomes a commercial nightmare. Then in mid 2000's, Future I-22 was opened as as second bypass.

[bugo]

The bypass of US 78 in Jasper is a great example, too. Original route went through downtown, bypass was built in the 60
s and 70's with no access control, so it becomes a commercial nightmare. Then in mid 2000's, Future I-22 was opened as as second bypass.

I saw a Holstein cow's severed head on the side of what was then US 78 near Jasper back in '96.

[roadman65]

We might as well blame the Wal Marts of today, as they love to build their stores on the outside of cities or the outer reaches of the city limits.  The bypasses are good candidates for all of this, as they carry the most traffic and at the same time attract the center areas of the city to shop as well.   

Thus creating a second shopping district as well and making the business and the bypass roads both equal in environment.

[doorknob60]

This is a little bit cheating, but during non rush hour (and possibly during rush hour too, maybe), you're better off taking US-30 than Bypass US-30 through Portland. Granted, US-30 is multiplexed onto freeways for most of it (I-84, I-5, I-405) while Bypass US-30 is a surface street. One the one hand, Bypass US-30 doesn't make sense anymore: it should maybe be Business US-30. But on the other hand, it does bypass downtown Portland, while US-30 goes straight through downtown. I guess it's fine the way it is.

[OCGuy81]

This is a little bit cheating, but during non rush hour (and possibly during rush hour too, maybe), you're better off taking US-30 than Bypass US-30 through Portland. Granted, US-30 is multiplexed onto freeways for most of it (I-84, I-5, I-405) while Bypass US-30 is a surface street. One the one hand, Bypass US-30 doesn't make sense anymore: it should maybe be Business US-30. But on the other hand, it does bypass downtown Portland, while US-30 goes straight through downtown. I guess it's fine the way it is.

I've thought about that, but haven't driven much of BYP-30 when I've been in Portland.  Curious if going across the St. Johns Bridge is easier than going over the Fremont and through the NW Industrial area.

On that note, is 205 worse during rush hour than 5?  Last time I was up there, 205 was a bottleneck from the airport onramp all the way down to the I-84 WB ramp.  Looked like it was still backed up heading south too.  Granted, this was around 4pm on a weekday...

[Gnutella]

US 231 and US 431 were rerouted to go around downtown Dothan, AL. Unfortunately, all of the traffic and businesses moved out to the bypass so it makes it quicker to go through the downtown now.

Dothan, AL is what inspired me to open this topic in the first place. What a mess that "bypass" became.

[roadman65]

US 231 and US 431 were rerouted to go around downtown Dothan, AL. Unfortunately, all of the traffic and businesses moved out to the bypass so it makes it quicker to go through the downtown now.

Dothan, AL is what inspired me to open this topic in the first place. What a mess that "bypass" became.

When I was staying overnight in Dothan, I found that when a local politician was running for office at the time back in 2010, his promise to the people of Dothan was to get the bypass built!  So naturally a freeway is proposed to go around it, with further study of it connecting to I-10 in Florida, but I do not know if that politician was to help out Florida though.

Nonetheless its a bypass of a good example of one that became worse than the original route as the Ross Clark Circle (the name of the Dothan Beltway) is lined with big box stores, malls, and modern day commercial development its 13 miles of length.