DRPA Bridge Tolls Too High (Philadelphia)

[ilvny]

It's really frustrating that the DRPA (Delaware River Port Authority) has been raising its bridge tolls over the past several years.  It now costs $5 to drive from NJ to PA on their bridges: Betsy Ross Bridge (NJ-90), Ben Franklin Bridge (I-676/US-30), Walt Whitman Bridge (I-76).  When I was a kid, the lowest price I remember was $2.  When my dad was a kid, the lowest price he remembers was $0.25.

I know that the DRPA uses the money to improve the bridges.  In fact, there's been construction on the Walt Whitman Bridge for a while.  But they shouldn't keep raising the tolls to fund their bridges.  $5 may not seem like a lot of money to some, but it adds up the more often you use one of the bridges, especially people who travel to and from PA and NJ on a regular basis.  It's also a lot of money if you compare it to the bridges mentioned below and other toll plazas with lower tolls.

The Tacony-Palmyra Bridge and Burlington-Bristol Bridge, both run by the Burlington County Bridge Commission, have a $2 toll for NJ to PA drivers.

The Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission's (DRJTBC) bridges have a $1 toll.  Among their 20 bridges are The Trenton-Morrisville Toll Bridge (US-1), the Lower Trenton Toll Supported Bridge (Trenton Makes the World Takes), and the Calhoun Street Toll Supported Bridge (the oldest DRJTBC bridge and the only one in their system made of wrought iron).

If the tolls for those bridges can be that low, why does the DRPA charge $5 for their bridges?

[PHLBOS]

First things first.  Since you're relatively new here, welcome aboard.

Second, the recent DRPA toll increases were enacted due to previous funds being spent for non-transportation related projects in Philadelphia; something that the DRPA was allowed to do for at least 10 years.

Is it wrong?  Is it Robbing Peter to Pay Paul?  You bet, but since these increases were enacted into law back when Ed Rendell was still Gov. of PA and John Corzine was still Gov. of NJ; it's been the considered/expected status quo.

The reason why the tolls for the Tacony-Palmyra & the Burlington-Bristol Bridges are still an affordable $2 (PA-bound) is because those two bridges are run by smaller county agencies.  Although the DRPA did attempt to take-over control of those 2 bridges back in 1990s but, thankfully, failed.

[SteveG1988]

You have to figure in the maintence all their bridges are starting to undergo, for example the burlington bristol bridge and tacony palmyra bridges were redecked in the 1990s, and tolls increased to 2 bucks in 2001. The toll increase pays for that maintence.

Now you have to deal with DRPA upgrading a 1960s era mass transit system (some would argue that the money should go towards JUST the bridges, and DRPA has no need to maintain that system) that is getting cars upgraded, and a new signaling system. Redecking the walt whitman bridge, the new ramps on the commodore barry bridge to the new sports center. And also i believe the betsy ross bridge is getting joints replaced.

[PHLBOS]

Now you have to deal with DRPA upgrading a 1960s era mass transit system (some would argue that the money should go towards JUST the bridges, and DRPA has no need to maintain that system) that is getting cars upgraded, and a new signaling system. Redecking the walt whitman bridge, the new ramps on the commodore barry bridge to the new sports center. And also i believe the betsy ross bridge is getting joints replaced.

The point I was trying to make was that, the toll (& PATCO fare) money that was originally supposed to fund the above-projects instead went to unrelated economic development projects (including stadiums, concert halls, museums & monuments) for over the last decade.  As a result, these toll increases (which were planned a few years ago) went into effect.

Of course, DRPA's reply is typically, "We're still cheaper than the New York City area crossings."
Sadly, they're correct about that.

[Alps]

Now you have to deal with DRPA upgrading a 1960s era mass transit system (some would argue that the money should go towards JUST the bridges, and DRPA has no need to maintain that system) that is getting cars upgraded, and a new signaling system. Redecking the walt whitman bridge, the new ramps on the commodore barry bridge to the new sports center. And also i believe the betsy ross bridge is getting joints replaced.

The point I was trying to make was that, the toll (& PATCO fare) money that was originally supposed to fund the above-projects instead went to unrelated economic development projects (including stadiums, concert halls, museums & monuments) for over the last decade.  As a result, these toll increases (which were planned a few years ago) went into effect.

Of course, DRPA's reply is typically, "We're still cheaper than the New York City area crossings."
Sadly, they're correct about that.

I'm more familiar with the PANYNJ and NJTA, but DRPA's expenses are not "unrelated" as you claim. Economic development in Philly boosts crossings of their bridges and ridership on their transit. Their decisions on expenditures are based on expected returns to their agency. No one is throwing money at projects that don't benefit them somehow.

[PHLBOS]

I'm more familiar with the PANYNJ and NJTA, but DRPA's expenses are not "unrelated" as you claim. Economic development in Philly boosts crossings of their bridges and ridership on their transit. Their decisions on expenditures are based on expected returns to their agency. No one is throwing money at projects that don't benefit them somehow.

First, by unrelated; I was largely referring to not directly going to transporation facilities, just to be clear.

Second, if all of those economic development projects were only accessible by DRPA facilities; your point would be 100% correct.  However, those who reside on the same side of the Delaware (PA in most instances) can access those facilities without spending one dime towards the DRPA.  As a result, many of these econmic development projects have been subsidized by only half of the regional motoring/transit population if even that (not everybody goes to all of the economic development facilities).

As one who's lived in the Delaware Valley for many years and have read the local articles on the DRPA; I can tell you that while their motives to subsidize non-transportation projects weren't intended to malicious, it clearly blew up in their face financially.  At the time, the funding started going towards development projects; nobody thought for a moment that gas prices were going to double, even triple (and stay there) nor the economy was going to collapse. 

It's worth noting, that a similar situation is now becoming more evident w/the PTC regarding their Act 44 funding (which has only been in place for about 6 years); some Turnpike projects being financially starved while monies being spent on either PennDOT or transit-related projects.  At least the diverted funds from tolls are indeed going directly towards transporation projects, but it still doesn't make that principle/premise right or a model to follow.

Those who are parents on this forum might better relate to the following example:
If you give your kid money to buy lunch at school; you don't expect him to use it for books (even if it's school subject related) or anything else for that, you expect him to use it to purchase their lunch.

IMHO, a similar approach needs to be done w/tolls & transit fares.

[jeffandnicole]

Over the 10 year period, approximately $443 Million was spent on Economic Development Projects.  Some of the projects, including the Philadelphia World Trade Center and the Aerial Tram across the bridge, barely got started, and the money is gone.  Some of the money went to knocking down blight along US 30 in Camden. Sure, the area looks better, but has anyone travelled between NJ and PA because of it?  And some of the money went to huge projects such as building Lincoln Financial Field for the Philadelphia Eagles, which is questionable, as if the stadium was not going to be built due to the lack of DRPA funding, which consituted a small part of the overall funding of the stadium.

[Alps]

Those who are parents on this forum might better relate to the following example:
If you give your kid money to buy lunch at school; you don't expect him to use it for books (even if it's school subject related) or anything else for that, you expect him to use it to purchase their lunch.

IMHO, a similar approach needs to be done w/tolls & transit fares.

See, though, I'd use the following example: You have a certain percentage of dollars going to fund your child's education. Your child then goes and buys clothes and lunch with some of that money. The argument on your side is, "Those are unrelated to school, therefore the money should not be spent in that way." The argument on my side is, "The school day is going to go a lot better if the kid has clothes and lunch." I'm not making a value judgment as to how strong the argument on my side is, just that it's one that agencies have been using to justify these expenditures and, at the very least, they're not "unrelated."

[vdeane]

I think the argument on the other side is that the money was given just for lunch and nothing else.

[jeffandnicole]

And then the money was used on a $30 lunch, plus tip, plus travel to and from lunch, along with valet parking fees, was reimbursed as well.

[D-Dey65]

Of course, DRPA's reply is typically, "We're still cheaper than the New York City area crossings."
Sadly, they're correct about that.

Precisely why I was surprised by the then 75 cent toll for the Trenton—Morrisville Toll Bridge, and still won't complain.

[mtantillo]

Also, most bridge authorities with long established "high" tolls cut commuters some kind of break, usually as appeasement to frequent users for continuation of tolls or diversion of toll money to other projects (most newer toll facilities offer no such discount).  Either a frequent user discount or general ETC discount.  DRPA does neither.  So you literally pay $5 if you commute everyday.  Meanwhile DRBA and DRJTBC offer significant discounts to commuters (I think DRPA cuts the normally $4.00 toll to $1.50, and DRJTBC gives a 40% discount on the $1 toll). 

[PHLBOS]

Meanwhile DRBA and DRJTBC offer significant discounts to commuters (I think DRPA cuts the normally $4.00 toll to $1.50, and DRJTBC gives a 40% discount on the $1 toll). 

It's worth noting that the DRPA tightened/restricted the conditions for who can can actually get those commuter and senior discounts.  A decade ago, any EZ-Pass user got a discount regardless of how often they used the crossing; now one needs to make at least 20 to 25 trips a month to receive any discounts.

Additionally, the senior discounts aren't as much of a bargain anymore as they once were.

[jeffandnicole]

The DRBA (Del Mem Br) has a very decent discount program:

20 trips for $25, must be used within 90 days. Averages $1.25/trip.
25 trips for $25, must be used within 30 days. Averages $1.00/trip.

For the DRPA (Next 4 bridges north), they still have a Senior Discount Program - $2.50, but you must have EZ Pass and signed up for that specific discount. 

I can't find any info whether they still have a discounted commuter program - their website doesn't seem to mention it.  It had been if you take 20 or more trips across, using the same EZ Pass transponder (not account...there's a difference!), they took $20 off your bill.

[PHLBOS]

For the DRPA (Next 4 bridges north), they still have a Senior Discount Program - $2.50, but you must have EZ Pass and signed up for that specific discount.

Are seniors who have a DRPA-issued EZ-Pass account charged the same $1/month (=$12/year) fee as other DRPA EZ-Pass holders?

That fee was the main reason why I dropped my DRPA EZ-Pass account (non-senior) many years ago and signed up w/a PTC-issued EZ-Pass account for a much lower annual fee (currently $3/year, it was $6/year).

[mtantillo]

DRPA does not issue E-ZPass tags anymore.  DRPA uses E-ZPass NJ customer service center, and they do not engage in age discrimination, their $1 fee applies to all. 

DRPA phased out commuter discounts a few years ago. So everyone pays the full fare. 

[PHLBOS]

Fixed quote in bold:

DRPA does not issue E-ZPass tags anymore.  DRPA uses E-ZPass NJ customer service center, and they do not engage in age discrimination, their $1 monthly fee applies to all. 

DRPA phased out commuter discounts a few years ago. So everyone pays the full fare.

All the more reason to dislike the DRPA.

[lamsalfl]

Geez.  Shows how different things are in other regions.  The $1 toll to cross the Crescent City Connection in NOLA has been a major issue here.  Last night a judge ordered tolls to cease immediately until a special election in May.  The last vote had over 300,000 votes cast and the RECOUNT came to a 36 vote difference for the tolls.  I can't imagine a $5 toll.   

The Causeway has a $3 toll you only pay going southbound and that bridge is 24 miles one way! 

[jeffandnicole]

Geez.  Shows how different things are in other regions.  The $1 toll to cross the Crescent City Connection in NOLA has been a major issue here.  Last night a judge ordered tolls to cease immediately until a special election in May.  The last vote had over 300,000 votes cast and the RECOUNT came to a 36 vote difference for the tolls.  I can't imagine a $5 toll.   

The Causeway has a $3 toll you only pay going southbound and that bridge is 24 miles one way! 

Yes, a $5 toll, each day.  About $100 a month in tolls alone for the average commuter.

And that's still cheap compared to the PANJNY crossings around NYC.

[mtantillo]

Geez.  Shows how different things are in other regions.  The $1 toll to cross the Crescent City Connection in NOLA has been a major issue here.  Last night a judge ordered tolls to cease immediately until a special election in May.  The last vote had over 300,000 votes cast and the RECOUNT came to a 36 vote difference for the tolls.  I can't imagine a $5 toll.   

The Causeway has a $3 toll you only pay going southbound and that bridge is 24 miles one way! 

Yes, a $5 toll, each day.  About $100 a month in tolls alone for the average commuter.

And that's still cheap compared to the PANJNY crossings around NYC.

Not so fast...

I'd imagine very few commuters regularly drive into Manhattan from NJ.  The toll cost is miniscule compared to the cost of parking in Manhattan.  That leaves the Staten Island crossings.  The commuter toll rate for those is $5.25, only a quarter more than the Philly bridges.  To qualify for that rate, you have to have an E-ZPass from New York or New Jersey (how nice of them to acknowledge that despite being a NY E-ZPass customer service center toll agency, a lot of their users come from NJ), check the box for "Staten Island Bridges Plan", and then make 3 or more trips a month.  That's all.  No residency restrictions.  No 20 trips a month.  And the best part is...no minimum usage either.  If you don't use the bridges, you don't get charged.  if you cross only once or twice, the trips repost to your account at the end of the month at the normal E-ZPass toll rate in effect at the time you crossed.  Cross 3 or more times, the trips stay at $5.25 each. 

Now the MTA Bridges and Tunnels...those are expensive, but there are free alternatives at least. 

[jeffandnicole]

Not so fast...

I'd imagine very few commuters regularly drive into Manhattan from NJ.  The toll cost is miniscule compared to the cost of parking in Manhattan. 

The Lincoln tunnel averages about 120,000 AADT.  It would be hard to argue many of them aren't regulars.

And that's just one crossing.

[Alps]

Not so fast...

I'd imagine very few commuters regularly drive into Manhattan from NJ.  The toll cost is miniscule compared to the cost of parking in Manhattan. 

The Lincoln tunnel averages about 120,000 AADT.  It would be hard to argue many of them aren't regulars.

And that's just one crossing.

Lincoln and Holland probably have the most commuter traffic of all the crossings, followed by Goethals, GWB, Tappan Zee, Outerbridge, Bayonne, in that order. I'm just guessing on the GWB because it carries the brunt of the commercial traffic load.

[mtantillo]

Not so fast...

I'd imagine very few commuters regularly drive into Manhattan from NJ.  The toll cost is miniscule compared to the cost of parking in Manhattan. 

The Lincoln tunnel averages about 120,000 AADT.  It would be hard to argue many of them aren't regulars.

And that's just one crossing.

Lincoln and Holland probably have the most commuter traffic of all the crossings, followed by Goethals, GWB, Tappan Zee, Outerbridge, Bayonne, in that order. I'm just guessing on the GWB because it carries the brunt of the commercial traffic load.

Well, you would know better than me.  I'm a little surprised, but I guess I can see it. 

Let me rephrase my original hypothesis.  If you can afford a parking spot in Manhattan, you can probably afford a $10.25 rush hour toll into Manhattan.  And even though there is no discount above and beyond the discount given to anyone who pays with E-ZPass (My Maryland tag gets PANYNJ discounts), at least E-ZPass users pay less than those paying cash.  Not so at DRPA facilities.