You're waiting to make a left and the drivers behind you illegally pass you

Started by ilvny, February 15, 2013, 07:52:21 PM

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ilvny

Does this happen to you?  You're one a two-lane road (one lane each direction) about to make a left turn and you have to wait for the oncoming traffic to pass before you make the turn.  While you're waiting, the drivers behind you decide to pass you on the shoulder, which is illegal.  I find it annoying because it shows blatant impatience and is potentially dangerous for the illegally passing vehicle and the vehicle waiting to turn.  What if the turner changes their mind and decides to go straight?  What if the passing driver misjudges the amount of space between the shoulder and the waiting car?  The passing driver could sideswipe the other car.

Illegal passing: annoying and dangerous.


bugo

It's not illegal, at least in some states, as long as the car that is turning is stopped.

Ian

As far as I'm aware, this maneuver is not illegal. Everywhere I've been, it seems to be common sense among all drivers to go around a turning vehicle on the shoulder if the shoulder is wide enough. In Maryland, they even encourage the maneuver on some roads, as they create a new lane on the shoulder for cars to pass turning vehicles (example).
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rarnold

Dangerous practice, especially in low-visibility areas. Is it really an inconvenience to wait a few seconds for someone to turn left, as opposed to rear-ending a car on the shoulder. I know in Iowa it would be suicidal to pass on the shoulder, as most shoulders are gravel, but people don't pull over for emergency vehicles anymore, either.

NE2

Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?
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Big John

Quote from: PennDOTFan on February 15, 2013, 08:17:10 PM
In Maryland, they even encourage the maneuver on some roads, as they create a new lane on the shoulder for cars to pass turning vehicles (example).
They do the same thing in Wisconsin, except it is a striped white line.

algorerhythms

As has been noted, it's legal in many states. In fact, the one question I still remember from when I took the Maryland written driving test was on this topic. The correct answer was that it's legal in Maryland.

tdindy88

Indiana utilizes these shoulders a lot along two-lane rural and suburban roadways. The official INDOT term for them is "passing blisters" and they are designed for such maneuvers. Here's one of many examples:

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.894518,-86.391592&spn=0.003294,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.89442,-86.392619&panoid=fmfWFSS8BcZA0eqZ8r0jYg&cbp=12,353.47,,0,9.62

Such maneuvers are not only encouraged, but expected from drivers who encounter this situation. If there is a road that turns off to the right as well as the left, the passing blister also serves as a turning lane to the right. These are very common in Indiana and I know I've seen them in Michigan too.

Duke87

The maneuver you describe is specifically illegal in Vermont (they have signs stating such). I do not know offhand of any other states where this is the case.

I, for one, will perform the move without a thought if there's room and find the fact that Vermont bans it to be stupid. Really, there is no risk associated with it since the only possible conflicting move is another vehicle turning off of the side road, and they're supposed to yield to you anyway.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

citrus

This was SOP in Rhode Island where I grew up. Only when there was space, of course, but a patch of dirt sometimes counted as "space", and never at full speed. When I lived in San Diego I noticed many people did not do this. In San Francisco, it's pretty common (as is dodging all sorts of other road obstacles).

rarnold

We have the "passing blisters" here in Kansas as well. However, I don't see those as being the same as passing on the shoulder. Those passing lanes were designed to be driven in, the shoulder in many cases was not.

Kacie Jane

I want to say it's illegal in Washington, but I don't know for certain and I'm too lazy to look up for sure.  (Even if it is illegal, it doesn't stop many people from doing it.  I do it sometimes but rarely -- but I'm rarely in a situation where I'd need to.)

I am certain that if there are bike lanes, it's illegal to cross into the bike lane to pass on the right.

NE2

Quote from: Kacie Jane on February 15, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
I am certain that if there are bike lanes, it's illegal to cross into the bike lane to pass on the right.
Unless you're on a bike. :bigass:
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

jeffandnicole

It's illegal in NJ to pass on the shoulder, but yet, I've seen NJDOT design paperwork online which notes that, when possible, shoulders should be built wide enough for motorists to pass left-turning vehicles.

wxfree

It's legal in Texas.  Statute allows driving on an improved shoulder to the right of the main lane to pass a vehicle in the lane turning left, and also allows driving on the paved shoulder for decelerating in preparation for a right turn, accelerating before entering the main lane, or to allow a faster vehicle to pass.

If you think it should be illegal to pass a left-turning vehicle on the paved shoulder, do you also think it should be illegal to drive on a paved shoulder for those other purposes?  To me, they seem to be fairly equivalent maneuvers, with only the direction of the shear (which side the faster car is on) being different.  If you don't want passing of a left-turning vehicle on the shoulder, would you also not want a right-turning vehicle to move over to the shoulder to allow passing?  The differences in speed and distances between cars are the same.  Actually, I generally slow down when going over to the shoulder to pass, so the difference in speed when passing on the right is smaller the way I do it.
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roadfro

Quote from: tdindy88 on February 15, 2013, 09:04:14 PM
Indiana utilizes these shoulders a lot along two-lane rural and suburban roadways. The official INDOT term for them is "passing blisters" and they are designed for such maneuvers. Here's one of many examples:

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.894518,-86.391592&spn=0.003294,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.89442,-86.392619&panoid=fmfWFSS8BcZA0eqZ8r0jYg&cbp=12,353.47,,0,9.62

It seems that if the DOT recognizes stopped turning vehicles would cause an issue and a "passing blister" is needed, wouldn't it just make more sense to put in a short turn lane instead? That seems to be Nevada DOT's way of doing it.

I'm not sure that Nevada allows passing on the shoulder. I do not remember it from driver's ed, and I don't think I've ever seen it in practice.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

colinstu

Passing a left-turning vehicle via a paved shoulder is legal in WI. http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/types/law-changes-2010.htm

Un-paved? Not safe and not legal. But lots of these T-intersections have been upgraded to have a paved shoulder / lane to pass.

I never thought of this (the legal one) being a problem. Nice for the car who wants to keep going forward, and one less car at the scene of an accident if another car doesn't pass in time / doesn't brake and rams into the left-turning vehicle.

empirestate

Illegal in NY:

Quoteยง 1131. Driving on shoulders and slopes. Except for bicycles and those
  classes  of vehicles required to travel on shoulders or slopes, no motor
  vehicle shall be driven over, across, along, or within any  shoulder  or
  slope  of  any  state  controlled-access  highway  except  at a location
  specifically authorized and posted by the department of  transportation.
  The  foregoing  limitation  shall  not prevent motor vehicles from using
  shoulders or slopes when directed by police officers or flagpersons, nor
  does it prevent motor vehicles from stopping, standing,  or  parking  on
  shoulders or slopes where such stopping, standing, or parking is lawful.

As a result, I don't usually do it, but I'll admit I'm surprised to learn that it's allowed in as many places as it is. Of course, if I'm the one guy out of a line of cars behind me who doesn't go around the turning vehicle, it can lead to interesting conflicts between me proceeding in the travel lane (once the way ahead is clear) and those trying to merge back in from the shoulder.

I will sometimes edge around the turning car after having stopped, if undue congestion seems to be occurring or if I judge the minor violation to be less than the chaos of me vs. the huge line of illegal passers mentioned above.

NYS specifically posts signs stating that the shoulder is off-limits, though usually this is to discourage its use as a right turn lane rather than a passing lane.

JREwing78

It's definitely illegal in Michigan in the absence of a "passing blister", though I've seen it done all the time anyway.

kphoger

Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?

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Alps

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 15, 2013, 10:51:33 PM
It's illegal in NJ to pass on the shoulder, but yet, I've seen NJDOT design paperwork online which notes that, when possible, shoulders should be built wide enough for motorists to pass left-turning vehicles.
I've never found any language supporting it being illegal here, only supporting it being legal like you say. Also, my understanding is that the only time you get in real trouble for it is if you scrape something as you go by.

Alps

Quote from: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?
I've done it before - accidentally, not realizing the guy was about to turn left because he slowed before using the blinker. It's dangerous, certainly. I'd like to see a law that you can't pass on the left if someone has their left blinker on - that would also stop the "back pass" of someone who's a little slow to pull out and start passing the car in front.

sp_redelectric

Oregon:  Legal, as long as you do not leave the pavement while passing, AND you cannot use a bicycle lane to pass on the right.

(reference: Oregon Class C Driver's Manual, page 45.)

kphoger

Quote from: Steve on February 16, 2013, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: kphoger on February 16, 2013, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 15, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Oh, I thought you were talking about passing on the left (in the oncoming lane) as you're getting ready to turn left. Is this legal (if passing is otherwise legal)?

Same here.  Any answers?
I've done it before - accidentally, not realizing the guy was about to turn left because he slowed before using the blinker. It's dangerous, certainly. I'd like to see a law that you can't pass on the left if someone has their left blinker on - that would also stop the "back pass" of someone who's a little slow to pull out and start passing the car in front.

I've done it before too, but only on accident.  The guy in front didn't put his blinker on until I'd already entered the left lane and started passing him.  I was really hoping he would notice me!

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

vdeane

Quote from: rarnold on February 15, 2013, 08:27:14 PM
Dangerous practice, especially in low-visibility areas. Is it really an inconvenience to wait a few seconds for someone to turn left, as opposed to rear-ending a car on the shoulder. I know in Iowa it would be suicidal to pass on the shoulder, as most shoulders are gravel, but people don't pull over for emergency vehicles anymore, either.
I know of many places where you could be waiting for five minutes if you don't pass.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



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