NJ Self-Service Gas?

[Brandon]

Dang Gas Station attendants are Targets in New Jersey. But not shocking.

Except it happened on Long Island.

Not to mention most acts of violence are because the people involved know each other in some way...

Given that it's a gas station/convenience store, my first assumption would've been armed robbery.

[hbelkins]

Somewhere in the past, I heard the argument that the attendants end up paying for themselves by greatly reducing the chances of a customer driving off without paying.

I know of very few remaining places that don't require you to prepay for your gas if you're not paying at the pump with a credit card.

[hbelkins]

Yet Wawa has stickers that say their attendants are only trained in the dispensing of fuel...

If you have to have training to pump gas, then our society is more doomed than I thought.

[hbelkins]

If I ever visit New Jersey, I'll be sure I have a full tank before I even enter the state.

I've never bought gas in New Jersey the times I've been there since discovering firsthand in 1991 that they don't allow you to pump your gas yourself, for the exact same reason. It's a stupid law and in this instance, I don't mind paying more elsewhere to avoid subsidizing that stupidity.

[jeffandnicole]

I've seen about 10 cents different at most (which is close to the 5% you mentioned).  The reasoning is for the fees incurred by the credit card companies at gas stations, and none of it would go to the attendants.  Again, it has nothing to do with full/self service. 

In which case the difference is unlikely to go away if self service is allowed

Again - it has absolutely nothing to do with full/self serve.  It has to do with credit card fees incurred by the business.  Why would it go away?

How many fires are caused per year due to improper pumping of gas? It can't be that many, and the ones that do happen have to be because of some idiot smoking while he's pumping.

I would think that gas station fires, especially significant ones, would make the news.  Or we would pass burned out gas stations.  Or GSV would have some burned out gas stations on their shots.  If you could find one or two I would be amazed.  There's more kitchen fires at restaurants caused by professional cooks then amateur car gas tank fillers.

[bing101]

Dang Gas Station attendants are Targets in New Jersey. But not shocking.

Except it happened on Long Island.

Correction made thanks.

[bing101]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gM5A8tWc5ZE

The gas attendant looks like the litter removal person at Caltrans with an orange vest. But its a gas attendant talking about gas prices and the job.

[Pete from Boston]

If I ever visit New Jersey, I'll be sure I have a full tank before I even enter the state.

I've never bought gas in New Jersey the times I've been there since discovering firsthand in 1991 that they don't allow you to pump your gas yourself, for the exact same reason. It's a stupid law and in this instance, I don't mind paying more elsewhere to avoid subsidizing that stupidity.

You're so vastly outnumbered by the folks pouring in from outside to buy gas that your withholding of subsidy, as you call it, makes no meaningful difference.

It cracks me up how people complain all over society about the disappearance of customer service, yet in this one case people are desperate to make it go away even faster.  This is a truly curmudgeonly crowd.

[jeffandnicole]

Somewhere in the past, I heard the argument that the attendants end up paying for themselves by greatly reducing the chances of a customer driving off without paying.  But if that's the case, wouldn't stations everywhere be more likely to offer or even require full service in their own economic interest? 

Pay at the pump and prepay eliminate the problem of drive offs. Back when I worked at a c-store, some customers (usually rich assholes driving German sedans) would come in when I was helping a customer and demand that I turn the pump on. It delighted me to no end to tell them that I couldn't do that and they would have to prepay.

When traveling in NJ, the only time it really bothers me is when I'm sitting there waiting for several minutes for someone to start pumping or to replace my gas cap when I'm perfectly capable.  I'm also a little uneasy at times handing my credit card over because some of the attendants leave the card half way in the reader the whole time the gas is pumping.  Not sure what the point of that would be - I don't need to swipe my card twice when I pay at the pump everywhere else.

I don't trust some pump jockey with my credit card. They could easily scribble down (or remember) the number and use it to pay for porn or whatever pump jockeys in New Jersey do.

If I ever visit New Jersey, I'll be sure I have a full tank before I even enter the state.

You do know that in most cases, the card never leaves your sight.  Or you can get out and swipe it yourself.  In nearly any other state, the pumps are left unattended, and a frequent problem is the criminals will install those card skimmers on those unattended card swipes.

In fact, I would absolutely LOL if someone refuses to get their gas in NJ because of the credit card issue, and have their card compromised anyway because of a card skimmer in another state.

[thenetwork]

With all the Full-Serve stations in NJ and in Oregon, are there some in either state nowadays who use gimmicks like having an all-female staff (like some did in the 60's and 70s) to bring in the business? 

I can still remember as a kid on a family vacation in Florida in the early 70s seeing a Full-Service gas station with girls on roller skates pumping gas and cleaning windshields.

[NJRoadfan]

Looks like senate president Steve Sweeney put the kibosh on any full serve repeal bill. One thing that would have to go if the state was self serve is the stupid cash/credit split pricing. Full serve actually encourages paying with cash as the transaction is tendered at the pump. No need to go into the store to prepay (most stations here aren't setup for it anyway) or running back in to get a refund if you overpay.

[Duke87]

So the law certainly implies the benefits of maintaining full service.  If there's no one available to check the oil upon demand, then the intent of the full service law isn't being met, even though there's no penalty involved.

Does anyone ever actually check their oil the old fashioned way using the dipstick? It's been a few years since I've done so. The OBD system in my car will turn a warning light on if the oil level drops too low. The dipstick is at this point largely an unnecessary antique... although I can certainly appreciate having a means of checking such things manually in the event that the diagnostic computer fails to do so properly.

[briantroutman]

Does anyone ever actually check their oil the old fashioned way using the dipstick? It's been a few years since I've done so. The OBD system in my car will turn a warning light on if the oil level drops too low. The dipstick is at this point largely an unnecessary antique... although I can certainly appreciate having a means of checking such things manually in the event that the diagnostic computer fails to do so properly.

Without exception, I check the engine oil level (and all other fluids with a sight glass or expansion tank) each time I refuel. That includes a recent trip from CA to PA and back on I-80 in which I checked the levels over twenty times in two weeks. And I maintain this regimen even though not one of the levels has ever been low.

I think it's better to check and be sure, know your vehicle and keep an eye on long-term trends, rather than react to problems when they demand your attention.

[corco]

Looks like senate president Steve Sweeney put the kibosh on any full serve repeal bill. One thing that would have to go if the state was self serve is the stupid cash/credit split pricing. Full serve actually encourages paying with cash as the transaction is tendered at the pump. No need to go into the store to prepay (most stations here aren't setup for it anyway) or running back in to get a refund if you overpay.

There's definitely split cash/credit pricing in self-serve states- I don't see why that would have to go away, though I agree that it is stupid and should go away. There's three buttons on the pump: "Pay outside credit" "Pay inside credit" and "Pay inside cash," and that determines the rate. I have no idea what happens if you push "pay inside cash" and then go inside to pay with a credit card.

Incidentally, very few stations in Montana require you to prepay if using cash, so it always throws me when I am reminded that that's a thing in most places now.   

Does anyone ever actually check their oil the old fashioned way using the dipstick? It's been a few years since I've done so. The OBD system in my car will turn a warning light on if the oil level drops too low. The dipstick is at this point largely an unnecessary antique... although I can certainly appreciate having a means of checking such things manually in the event that the diagnostic computer fails to do so properly.

Without exception, I check the engine oil level (and all other fluids with a sight glass or expansion tank) each time I refuel. That includes a recent trip from CA to PA and back on I-80 in which I checked the levels over twenty times in two weeks. And I maintain this regimen even though not one of the levels has ever been low.

I think it’s better to check and be sure, know your vehicle and keep an eye on long-term trends, rather than react to problems when they demand your attention.

I don't trust my OBD light. On my new VW Golf, the engine supposedly can go 10,000 miles between oil changes with full synthetics. While that change regimen will likely keep the engine running for the life of the powertrain warranty, I'd like to put multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on this car (it's a stick and I am suspicious about the ability to actually purchase a car with a stick in 2030 or whenever I replace it, which entices me to keep it on the road as long as possible) and need to keep the engine in tip-top shape, so it's getting changed every 5,000 with full synthetic.

I don't check my fluids every time I refuel, but do check once a month or so. It's good to keep an eye on things.

[SteveG1988]

Looks like senate president Steve Sweeney put the kibosh on any full serve repeal bill. One thing that would have to go if the state was self serve is the stupid cash/credit split pricing. Full serve actually encourages paying with cash as the transaction is tendered at the pump. No need to go into the store to prepay (most stations here aren't setup for it anyway) or running back in to get a refund if you overpay.

There's definitely split cash/credit pricing in self-serve states- I don't see why that would have to go away, though I agree that it is stupid and should go away. There's three buttons on the pump: "Pay outside credit" "Pay inside credit" and "Pay inside cash," and that determines the rate. I have no idea what happens if you push "pay inside cash" and then go inside to pay with a credit card.

Incidentally, very few stations in Montana require you to prepay if using cash, so it always throws me when I am reminded that that's a thing in most places now.   

Does anyone ever actually check their oil the old fashioned way using the dipstick? It's been a few years since I've done so. The OBD system in my car will turn a warning light on if the oil level drops too low. The dipstick is at this point largely an unnecessary antique... although I can certainly appreciate having a means of checking such things manually in the event that the diagnostic computer fails to do so properly.

Without exception, I check the engine oil level (and all other fluids with a sight glass or expansion tank) each time I refuel. That includes a recent trip from CA to PA and back on I-80 in which I checked the levels over twenty times in two weeks. And I maintain this regimen even though not one of the levels has ever been low.

I think it's better to check and be sure, know your vehicle and keep an eye on long-term trends, rather than react to problems when they demand your attention.

I don't trust my OBD light. On my new VW Golf, the engine supposedly can go 10,000 miles between oil changes with full synthetics. While that change regimen will likely keep the engine running for the life of the powertrain warranty, I'd like to put multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on this car (it's a stick and I am suspicious about the ability to actually purchase a car with a stick in 2030 or whenever I replace it, which entices me to keep it on the road as long as possible) and need to keep the engine in tip-top shape, so it's getting changed every 5,000 with full synthetic.

I don't check my fluids every time I refuel, but do check once a month or so. It's good to keep an eye on things.

5000 with full synthetic is a waste, 8500 is reasonable. I do 5,000 with conventional oil with no problems. Modern engines are cleaner burning than what was built even 25 years ago plus modern oils have a lot more detergents in them to keep the engine running fine.

[PHLBOS]

Looks like senate president Steve Sweeney put the kibosh on any full serve repeal bill. One thing that would have to go if the state was self serve is the stupid cash/credit split pricing.

IIRC, not all stations in NJ have split pricing.  The stations (mostly Sunoco) along the Turnpike, Parkway and AC Expressway have the same price for both cash & credit.  Off the toll roads, the Quick Chek stores that have gas stations feature same price cash/credit.

Some smaller, independent all self-serve stations in MA have split cash/credit pricing.  Heck, many supermarket gas stations that offer discounts for those that collect bonus points while shopping (Giant, Stop-and-Shop and Kroger being 3 examples) offer such split pricing (discounted price vs. regular price) as well.

[jeffandnicole]

Looks like senate president Steve Sweeney put the kibosh on any full serve repeal bill. One thing that would have to go if the state was self serve is the stupid cash/credit split pricing.

IIRC, not all stations in NJ have split pricing.  The stations (mostly Sunoco) along the Turnpike, Parkway and AC Expressway have the same price for both cash & credit.  Off the toll roads, the Quick Chek stores that have gas stations feature same price cash/credit.

Some smaller, independent all self-serve stations in MA have split cash/credit pricing.  Heck, many supermarket gas stations that offer discounts for those that collect bonus points while shopping (Giant, Stop-and-Shop and Kroger being 3 examples) offer such split pricing (discounted price vs. regular price) as well.

No Wawas have split pricing.  It's up to each individual station owner whether they charge same cash/credit or different.  The only requirement is that the cash/credit price has to be clearly posted.

[02 Park Ave]

It is a safety issue.   One is allowed to pump Diesel fuel into one's vehicle.

[texaskdog]

Somewhere in the past, I heard the argument that the attendants end up paying for themselves by greatly reducing the chances of a customer driving off without paying.

I know of very few remaining places that don't require you to prepay for your gas if you're not paying at the pump with a credit card.

My dad worked full serve in the late 70s.  They usually had several pumps going and they had as many drive offs as we did when I worked for a self serve station 2000-2005.

[Mr. Matté]

Steve Sweeney's comment how he won't even give the bill an up or down vote shows how stuck up he is as a legislator. An issue like this seems like a perfect thing to put to a public referendum rather than other issues that have been proposed in the past or actual questions put to a vote.

[jeffandnicole]

Steve Sweeney's comment how he won't even give the bill an up or down vote shows how stuck up he is as a legislator. An issue like this seems like a perfect thing to put to a public referendum rather than other issues that have been proposed in the past or actual questions put to a vote.

Public referendums are costly and aren't legally binding, unless it's a constitutional amendment.  There's already numerous polls out there that tell us how people are feeling regarding numerous topics.

That said, there should never be a single politician that can uphold a vote for anything.  Even when the governor vetos it, it can bounce back for an override (although that is very rare).

Of all the issues in New Jersey, it's amazing how strongly people feel about full/self service gas. 

[Pete from Boston]

An issue like this seems like a perfect thing to put to a public referendum rather than other issues that have been proposed in the past or actual questions put to a vote.

I don't agree.  New Jersey has real problems, and this is not one.  The expenditure of lots of energy on a non-binding referendum (New Jersey does not have direct democracy, only representative) would only be a victory for politicians happy to see voters distracting themselves from actual serious issues.   

[briantroutman]

Of all the issues in New Jersey, it's amazing how strongly people feel about full/self service gas.

At this point, it's not about the merits of the issue. A significant number of New Jerseyans have decided that universal, government-mandated full service gasoline is part of what makes New Jersey, New Jersey. It has become every but as much of the fabric of the state's culture as Taylor Ham and Frankie Valli.

[Pete from Boston]

Goddamnit, here we go again with the Taylor Ham.  Can there please be a day that goes by on which I am not driven to salivate over its elusive salty goodness?

[Brandon]

WTF is Taylor Ham?