Illinois DOT cuts $100+ million in road projects

[Henry]

Guess I won't be moving back to Chicago anytime soon...

[johndoe780]

Not a big surprise.  Illinois is broke.  Flat, dead broke.  50/50 for being broke.  However, that said, our infrastructure is shit, and will get much, much worse long before it starts getting better.

Even more so with that state Constitution amendment on government worker pensions.



Mike

Not to get too political, but what the heck is going on with Illinois financially?  I live in Indiana, so I am not very familiar with Illinois politics/financials.

The government worker unions have the state by its neck.  It was made even worse not long ago when the state's supreme court ruled unanimously that a recent state Constitution amendment basically said that pension benefits can never be reduced, even though the fund in grossly (billions of dollars) underfunded.  It's not as bad as in Greece right now, but Illinois is now in the worst financial shape of all 50 states.

So because the taxpayers of the state of Illinois didn't want to pay taxes to hold up their obligations to the public employees, the public employees should be the ones to bear the burden?

Screw that.  Illinois should have been meeting its obligations all along.

Yeah good luck getting your 10K a month pension. Illinois' population is declining and falling apart. With the increased taxation to meet those pension obligations, it'll only speed up the fall. Thanks to of course incompetent politicians and corrupt unions. You only have to take a look at all those teachers making 100K pensions and school superintendents making 200-300K pensions to see that I have no sympathy towards you pensioners.

"IF" (states can't declare bankruptcy and cities can't currently in Illinois) Illinois and some cities declare bankruptcy, you can kiss that pension clause goodbye. Ask your neighbors in Detroit what happened to their pension.

I'm already making my way to Virginia where I can buy a house worth twice as much and pay half as much in property tax. Because of course, Illinois doesn't fund schools jack squat like most other states.

If it was up to me, put a 50% income tax on pensions greater than 60K. That should "constitutionally" fix that pension shortfall real quick.

[3467]

SEWI guy is right Illinois has kept its low non progressive tax rate MUCH lower than Wisconsin because it raided the cookie jar ...the pensions. It somehow didn't raid the tollway authority which is easily worth 20 billion and an asset so Illinois is far from broke it just doesn't like to pay its bills. Madigan was there at the constitution and he was the lead pension theif who claimed he had the supreme court in is pocket but didn't. That is Madigan and that is a problem but the new gov is no treat either. I would point out that trashing public employees on a site like this that wants DOT employees to join doesn't seem to wise. Also if the state can steal a pension why couldn't it just steal everything else? no road would ever get built if you don't pay the contractors

[SEWIGuy]

Not a big surprise.  Illinois is broke.  Flat, dead broke.  50/50 for being broke.  However, that said, our infrastructure is shit, and will get much, much worse long before it starts getting better.

Even more so with that state Constitution amendment on government worker pensions.



Mike

Not to get too political, but what the heck is going on with Illinois financially?  I live in Indiana, so I am not very familiar with Illinois politics/financials.

The government worker unions have the state by its neck.  It was made even worse not long ago when the state's supreme court ruled unanimously that a recent state Constitution amendment basically said that pension benefits can never be reduced, even though the fund in grossly (billions of dollars) underfunded.  It's not as bad as in Greece right now, but Illinois is now in the worst financial shape of all 50 states.

So because the taxpayers of the state of Illinois didn't want to pay taxes to hold up their obligations to the public employees, the public employees should be the ones to bear the burden?

Screw that.  Illinois should have been meeting its obligations all along.

Yeah good luck getting your 10K a month pension. Illinois' population is declining and falling apart. With the increased taxation to meet those pension obligations, it'll only speed up the fall. Thanks to of course incompetent politicians and corrupt unions. You only have to take a look at all those teachers making 100K pensions and school superintendents making 200-300K pensions to see that I have no sympathy towards you pensioners.

"IF" (states can't declare bankruptcy and cities can't currently in Illinois) Illinois and some cities declare bankruptcy, you can kiss that pension clause goodbye. Ask your neighbors in Detroit what happened to their pension.

I'm already making my way to Virginia where I can buy a house worth twice as much and pay half as much in property tax. Because of course, Illinois doesn't fund schools jack squat like most other states.

If it was up to me, put a 50% income tax on pensions greater than 60K.

So again, you are placing the blame on the employees and *they* should be the ones to get Illinois out of this.

Why not the taxpayers of the State of Illinois who elected the "incompetent politicians" to begin with?  They are the ones who refused to pay what was their obligation.  How about instead of taxing the people receiving what is rightfully theirs, how about an income tax increase averaging $500 per person over the next 40 years.  That will take care of the current shortfall, with interest. 

[SEWIGuy]

And I am completely for changing pension contribution requirements for new and current government employees...or even converting the pension system to a 403(b) plan for all new employees.  There are ways that Illinois can prevent this from occurring in the future. 

[johndoe780]

Not a big surprise.  Illinois is broke.  Flat, dead broke.  50/50 for being broke.  However, that said, our infrastructure is shit, and will get much, much worse long before it starts getting better.

Even more so with that state Constitution amendment on government worker pensions.



Mike

Not to get too political, but what the heck is going on with Illinois financially?  I live in Indiana, so I am not very familiar with Illinois politics/financials.

The government worker unions have the state by its neck.  It was made even worse not long ago when the state's supreme court ruled unanimously that a recent state Constitution amendment basically said that pension benefits can never be reduced, even though the fund in grossly (billions of dollars) underfunded.  It's not as bad as in Greece right now, but Illinois is now in the worst financial shape of all 50 states.

So because the taxpayers of the state of Illinois didn't want to pay taxes to hold up their obligations to the public employees, the public employees should be the ones to bear the burden?

Screw that.  Illinois should have been meeting its obligations all along.

Yeah good luck getting your 10K a month pension. Illinois' population is declining and falling apart. With the increased taxation to meet those pension obligations, it'll only speed up the fall. Thanks to of course incompetent politicians and corrupt unions. You only have to take a look at all those teachers making 100K pensions and school superintendents making 200-300K pensions to see that I have no sympathy towards you pensioners.

"IF" (states can't declare bankruptcy and cities can't currently in Illinois) Illinois and some cities declare bankruptcy, you can kiss that pension clause goodbye. Ask your neighbors in Detroit what happened to their pension.

I'm already making my way to Virginia where I can buy a house worth twice as much and pay half as much in property tax. Because of course, Illinois doesn't fund schools jack squat like most other states.

If it was up to me, put a 50% income tax on pensions greater than 60K.

So again, you are placing the blame on the employees and *they* should be the ones to get Illinois out of this.

Why not the taxpayers of the State of Illinois who elected the "incompetent politicians" to begin with?  They are the ones who refused to pay what was their obligation.  How about instead of taxing the people receiving what is rightfully theirs, how about an income tax increase averaging $500 per person over the next 40 years.  That will take care of the current shortfall, with interest.

I don't have a problem with pensions. But it's pathetic that I should make more sacrifices for this pathetic state while I'm paying 10K in property taxes for my $300K house so that you're "entitled" to your 100K pension with 3% COLA.

Simply put, your pension benefits were over promised. No one in their right mind "deserves" a 100K pension, twice the median salary of a family in Illinois. Hell, the maximum social security check is $33K and that's if you put in the max 35 years while making 118K.

Teachers put in what? 9% into pensions? I put in 6.2% in social security and I don't get anywhere close to their absurd pensions.

[SEWIGuy]

Not a big surprise.  Illinois is broke.  Flat, dead broke.  50/50 for being broke.  However, that said, our infrastructure is shit, and will get much, much worse long before it starts getting better.

Even more so with that state Constitution amendment on government worker pensions.



Mike

Not to get too political, but what the heck is going on with Illinois financially?  I live in Indiana, so I am not very familiar with Illinois politics/financials.

The government worker unions have the state by its neck.  It was made even worse not long ago when the state's supreme court ruled unanimously that a recent state Constitution amendment basically said that pension benefits can never be reduced, even though the fund in grossly (billions of dollars) underfunded.  It's not as bad as in Greece right now, but Illinois is now in the worst financial shape of all 50 states.

So because the taxpayers of the state of Illinois didn't want to pay taxes to hold up their obligations to the public employees, the public employees should be the ones to bear the burden?

Screw that.  Illinois should have been meeting its obligations all along.

Yeah good luck getting your 10K a month pension. Illinois' population is declining and falling apart. With the increased taxation to meet those pension obligations, it'll only speed up the fall. Thanks to of course incompetent politicians and corrupt unions. You only have to take a look at all those teachers making 100K pensions and school superintendents making 200-300K pensions to see that I have no sympathy towards you pensioners.

"IF" (states can't declare bankruptcy and cities can't currently in Illinois) Illinois and some cities declare bankruptcy, you can kiss that pension clause goodbye. Ask your neighbors in Detroit what happened to their pension.

I'm already making my way to Virginia where I can buy a house worth twice as much and pay half as much in property tax. Because of course, Illinois doesn't fund schools jack squat like most other states.

If it was up to me, put a 50% income tax on pensions greater than 60K.

So again, you are placing the blame on the employees and *they* should be the ones to get Illinois out of this.

Why not the taxpayers of the State of Illinois who elected the "incompetent politicians" to begin with?  They are the ones who refused to pay what was their obligation.  How about instead of taxing the people receiving what is rightfully theirs, how about an income tax increase averaging $500 per person over the next 40 years.  That will take care of the current shortfall, with interest.

I don't have a problem with pensions. But it's pathetic that I should make more sacrifices for this pathetic state while I'm paying 10K in property taxes for my $300K house so that you're "entitled" to your 100K pension with 3% COLA.

Simply put, your pension benefits were over promised. No one in their right mind "deserves" a 100K pension, twice the median salary of a family in Illinois. Hell, the maximum social security check is $33K and that's if you put in the max 35 years while making 118K.

Teachers put in what? 9% into pensions? I put in 6.2% in social security and I don't get anywhere close to their absurd pensions.

First of all, these aren't my pension benefits.  I don't live in Illinois, nor am I an Illinois employee.

Second of all, people only deserve what they were promised.  You can say that they don't deserve something, but contractually they most certainly do deserve it. 

Finally, the over promising was done by you via the people you elected. 

[Brandon]

Finally, the over promising was done by you via the people you elected. 

It wasn't just done by the people elected.  A lot of it was merely gifted.  Note my earlier post about the gifting to union leaders, favored teachers, and superintendents.  Some of these folks were gifted pensions in that $200k-$300k range.  That's not fair to anyone, and those who were gifted such pensions should lose the majority of them.

[johndoe780]

Finally, the over promising was done by you via the people you elected. 

It wasn't just done by the people elected.  A lot of it was merely gifted.  Note my earlier post about the gifting to union leaders, favored teachers, and superintendents.  Some of these folks were gifted pensions in that $200k-$300k range.  That's not fair to anyone, and those who were gifted such pensions should lose the majority of them.

Yeah, you just need to read an article that says, "Substitute teacher for a day, pension for life" that shows you how screwed up the pension system is in Illinois.

There are doctors retiring from the state who are caking in close to  $500K a year. Quinn's pension is $180K and he didn't do a single competent thing in his life.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-pension-lawsuit-lobbyist-met-20150318-story.html#page=1

http://www.rebootillinois.com/2014/07/02/editors-picks/kevin-hoffmanrebootillinois-com/top-25-highest-illinois-government-pensions/19817/

[Brandon]

Finally, the over promising was done by you via the people you elected. 

It wasn't just done by the people elected.  A lot of it was merely gifted.  Note my earlier post about the gifting to union leaders, favored teachers, and superintendents.  Some of these folks were gifted pensions in that $200k-$300k range.  That's not fair to anyone, and those who were gifted such pensions should lose the majority of them.

Yeah, you just need to read an article that says, "Substitute teacher for a day, pension for life" that shows you how screwed up the pension system is in Illinois.

There are doctors retiring from the state who are caking in $500-600K a year. Quinn's pension is $180K and he didn't do a single competent thing in his life.

You mean this one (that I have read): http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-teacher-pension-court-edit-0324-20150323-story.html

David Piccioli is not a retired teacher. He's a retired lobbyist who elbowed his way into the Teachers Retirement System by subbing in a Springfield classroom for one day and then tried to inflate that pension with help from his friends in the General Assembly.

That cozy deal was exposed by the Tribune and WGN-TV in 2011, and lawmakers quickly undid it – or so they thought. Now, Piccioli is suing a state retirement board, arguing that the Illinois Constitution prohibited the state from reducing his benefits.

A provision tucked into a 2007 pension bill opened a window for Piccioli to retroactively count his years as a lobbyist for the Illinois Federation of Teachers toward the teacher pension he signed up for after his daylong career as a middle school history teacher. To do so, he had to purchase "service credits" for those nine years.

That would have entitled him to tap the teachers' retirement kitty for a pension based on his entire career as a lobbyist, not just the five years after his teacher-for-a-day gig.

Piccioli's insider raid on the teachers fund pulls back the curtain on the corrupt alliances that enabled the poor decision-making that put the pensions in jeopardy.

The Illinois Federation of Teachers has a long history of supporting Democratic candidates in Springfield. In the two-year election cycle leading up to the 2006 election, according to an analysis done at the time for the Tribune, the federation gave more than $515,000 to help re-elect then-Gov. Rod Blagojevich. House Speaker Michael Madigan, the state party chairman, and his candidates got about $567,000. Senate Democrats got about $388,000.

If you wonder why the pols who run the General Assembly felt the need to reward the lobbyists who represent the teachers union, well, there's your answer.

One side was supposed to be looking after teachers. The other side was supposed to be looking after taxpayers. Instead, they were looking after themselves.

This is just one of the problems in the state.  If you think Wisconsin is bad, then you really need to look at the clusterfuck to the south.

Here's something that describes the gifting, and how much some superintendents make in Illinois.  It's a bit obscene when they make more than the governor. http://www.illinoisloop.org/salary.html

[SEWIGuy]

Finally, the over promising was done by you via the people you elected. 

It wasn't just done by the people elected.  A lot of it was merely gifted.  Note my earlier post about the gifting to union leaders, favored teachers, and superintendents.  Some of these folks were gifted pensions in that $200k-$300k range.  That's not fair to anyone, and those who were gifted such pensions should lose the majority of them.

If you are saying that the pension system was overly generous through loopholes like this, I wholeheartedly agree with you.  Legally however, they are still deserved. 

EDIT:  And bringing up examples like this are enlightening, but it is hardly the norm.  There are something like 250,000 current pension holders in the State of Illinois.  My guess is the vast majority of them simply put their time in and retired.

[Brandon]

Finally, the over promising was done by you via the people you elected. 

It wasn't just done by the people elected.  A lot of it was merely gifted.  Note my earlier post about the gifting to union leaders, favored teachers, and superintendents.  Some of these folks were gifted pensions in that $200k-$300k range.  That's not fair to anyone, and those who were gifted such pensions should lose the majority of them.

If you are saying that the pension system was overly generous through loopholes like this, I wholeheartedly agree with you.  Legally however, they are still deserved. 

EDIT:  And bringing up examples like this are enlightening, but it is hardly the norm.  There are something like 250,000 current pension holders in the State of Illinois.  My guess is the vast majority of them simply put their time in and retired.

The problem is, it's not a minority, it's a majority.

Teacher pensions put strain on state

More than 70 percent of full-time teachers and school staff who retired in the suburbs and Downstate Illinois in the last decade pocketed double-digit pay increases and other perks shortly before leaving--costing state taxpayers millions in higher pension payments, a Tribune investigation has found.

Using such salary spikes to boost pensions is legal in Illinois but highly unusual and sometimes outlawed elsewhere as public pension plans around the country try to control costs, national and state retirement experts say.

The perks have been doled out even as the economy soured, local districts battled deficits, and the Teachers' Retirement System--which covers all state districts except Chicago--struggled with shortfalls. The TRS is considered one of the worst-funded state pension plans in the nation.

The bonuses, buried deep in teacher contracts negotiated by unions and local school boards, have gone largely unnoticed by the public. But though local districts pay for the perks initially, the cost of the inflated pensions that result is spread to taxpayers statewide, who largely fund the TRS system.

Last year, 7 in 10 full-time teachers and staff who retired in the suburbs and Downstate saw their earnings rise by 15 percent or more at least once in their last three years, an analysis of retiree data shows. And 4 in 10 of those retirees got at least one increase of 20 percent--more than five times the increase in average teacher pay that year.

As any pensioner knows, big pay increases pad pensions because the highest salary years are used to calculate retirement pay for years to come. If pay hikes for many of the retirees in 2002 alone had been capped at even 10 percent, the state pension system could have saved at least $120 million in retirement costs over the next two decades, the Tribune found.

In financially strapped Township High School District 211 in Cook County, the retirement perks include 20 percent pay raises, cash for health-care costs, and $5,000 to $10,000 bonuses for teachers with master's degrees who have served at least 15 years in the district.

The salary of Schaumburg High School business education teacher Martin Barski rose from $91,151 to $142,536 in his final years with District 211, district records show. At 55, Barski retired last year with a pension of about $72,000--nearly $11,000 more than he would have gotten had he received 5 percent raises over the same period, according to Tribune calculations.

Outsiders express surprise

Public pension officials in other states said they were surprised at such widespread pay increases in Illinois.

"We won't let that happen," said David Daly, a spokesman for the New York State Teachers' Retirement System. There, retirement bonuses can't be used when calculating retirement benefits, and salary increases for most retirees can't exceed 10 percent of the average of the previous two years of salary.

Some states, such as Maryland, do allow salary increases of up to 20 percent to be included in retirement calculations. But "it's been a long time since we've really seen anything like that," said Margaret Bury, retirement administrator for Maryland's State Retirement Agency.

California's state teacher retirement law prohibits unusual salary increases designed to boost pensions, and Ohio's teachers retirement system also limits unusual and excessive pay increases in retirement calculations.

"Spiking has pretty much been outlawed by most public pension plans," said Herbert Dyer, executive director of the State Teachers Retirement System of Ohio.

In Illinois, a teacher's four highest consecutive years of earnings within the last decade usually are used to come up with a "final average salary." That figure is multiplied by the teacher's years of service and by a percentage factor, usually 2.2 percent, to determine the teacher's pension.

The pension cannot exceed 75 percent of the teacher's final average salary. Once a benefit is calculated, it increases over time because most retirees get 3 percent cost-of-living increases.

The Tribune analyzed salary and pension data from the last decade for 29,291 teachers and staff who worked full time for the last four years before they retired. Late salary boosts were widespread and became more common over time.

In 1992-93, half the retirees got at least a 15 percent pay increase in one or more of their last three years, and nearly a third got at least 20 percent increases. By 2001-02, 68 percent of the retirees got at least a 15 percent increase in one or more of their final years; 40 percent got at least a 20 percent increase.

Overall, 21,055 of the full-time retirees over the last decade--72 percent--got at least 10 percent pay increases in one or more of their last three years. About 55 percent of the retirees got at least 15 percent increases, and about a third got at least 20 percent increases.

TRS' own financial reports show that the average pension for retirees over the last decade has nearly doubled--from $22,176 for 1992-93 retirees to $42,144 for the 2001-02 retirees. In addition, total payments to retirees over the last decade have nearly tripled.

It is not unusual nor abnormal in Illinois for this to happen.  Yes, Virginia, it is the norm, and it comes at the expense of things like our infrastructure.

[SEWIGuy]

Thanks for providing that.

Clearly that system needs to change.  But not with current pension holders.  And school districts can prevent the massive increases just prior to retirement.

[silverback1065]

it sounds like the problem is unrealistic promises. pensions are something that workers should have guaranteed, but the ones in Illinois you all are mentioning seem insane. 

[Rothman]

It used to be, "You have something I don't have; I'll go to my employer to get it, too. Now I don't see any chance of getting it. I don't want to be the lowest one on the totem pole, so I don't want you to have it either." -- Dr. Richard Freeman -- My favorite quote about the current state of labor in the United States.

It's very strange to me when people put all the blame upon unions when it comes to any of the absurd contracts that attract attention, either in Illinois or with UAW and GM or wherever else.  People seem to forget that management had to agree to such ridiculous terms.  As anyone who has taken Microeconomics 101 knows, if your labor costs are prohibiting you from making money, then you go out of business.  So, for management to agree to ridiculous terms from a union rather than to just say, "You know what?  I can't make money with that arrangement; I'm out" would actually indicate a dearth of common sense in management rather than some special maneuvering by a union.

Probably doesn't matter, anyway.  Unions are mostly dead in this country, the middle class has declined along with them and it appears the Supreme Court's going to outlaw closed shops in any matter in short order. 

[johndoe780]

It used to be, "You have something I don't have; I'll go to my employer to get it, too. Now I don't see any chance of getting it. I don't want to be the lowest one on the totem pole, so I don't want you to have it either." -- Dr. Richard Freeman -- My favorite quote about the current state of labor in the United States.

It's very strange to me when people put all the blame upon unions when it comes to any of the absurd contracts that attract attention, either in Illinois or with UAW and GM or wherever else.  People seem to forget that management had to agree to such ridiculous terms.  As anyone who has taken Microeconomics 101 knows, if your labor costs are prohibiting you from making money, then you go out of business.  So, for management to agree to ridiculous terms from a union rather than to just say, "You know what?  I can't make money with that arrangement; I'm out" would actually indicate a dearth of common sense in management rather than some special maneuvering by a union.

Probably doesn't matter, anyway.  Unions are mostly dead in this country, the middle class has declined along with them and it appears the Supreme Court's going to outlaw closed shops in any matter in short order. 

I don't have anything against unions, but public sector unions are moreso pseudo politicians.

And once you factor in this ridiculous thing called prevailing wage, you essentially remove all your competition to ensure unions have "bought out" the competition, especially in roadwork.

Unions were mostly manufacturing jobs. Manufacturing jobs left this country decades ago.

The problem with Illinois politics is they're too cushy with unions. Prevailing wage, ridiculous pensions, lack of automation to guarantee job safety. I mean the fact that you still have Metra conductors punch tickets (literally) in 2015 is a friggen joke. Some of the most progressive presidents, i.e. FDR, were completely for private unions, but not public sector unions.

Besides public safety and construction, literally half of these state government jobs can be automated in the near to far future: Teachers, DMV (except for the driving tests which are still a joke anyway since idiots are still on the road,) hell even medicine (where a doctor facetimes you for a simple primary care consultation)  The internet is pushing more jobs towards automation yet you have people, notably teachers, in denial. Ironically, I obtained essentially half of my AA degree online through my community college, which wasn't really that bad at all, top notch actually. You want a decent middle class job? Go IT, programming, or pick up a skill involving the internet. I got a job and degree in computer science recently, I'm non-union, and I'm quite satisfied with my pay and benefits. I never bitched, whined or moaned during the entire process. I just get completely frustrated that you expect me to pay higher taxes for some of these ridiculous, unrealistic benefits that should have never been promised in the beginning due to corruption.

Notably, in Illinois, unions give campaign cash directly to politicians so they can win elections. Politicians go around and directly negotiate the benefits (even completely ridiculous ones) with the unions. You see the problem there?

And in regards to closed shop, it goes without saying not all unions are evil or perfect. It's a mixed bag at the end of the day. With the lack of jobs due to a sour economy, should I turn down a job just because I don't like the union that's running it? I remember my dad telling me one time he had a job as a grocery store bagger while in high school. Minimum wage, no benefits, yet had to pay union dues. For what exactly?! Honestly, if you don't like your job, pick up a skill. Good paying jobs aren't as laborious as they once were, but you do have to use your brain though.

Closed shops probably will be a thing in the past given by the SCOTUS case of Harris vs. Quinn.

[Rothman]

I just get completely frustrated that you expect me to pay higher taxes for some of these ridiculous, unrealistic benefits that should have never been promised in the beginning due to corruption.

Notably, in Illinois, unions give campaign cash directly to politicians so they can win elections. Politicians go around and directly negotiate the benefits (even completely ridiculous ones) with the unions. You see the problem there?

In NY, PEF famously donated money to Governor Cuomo's race and he turned around and threatened layoffs and sent the-then PEF leadership running to the hills, unfortunately persuading a bunch of PEF members to vote for a frustrating contract that included furloughs -- PEF members that were too stupid to actually read the contract before voting for it and went around moaning that they had to vote for it (*facepalm*).  Once they came around to realizing what they were duped into voting for, they voted out the PEF leadership.

Anyway, my point is that just because unions donate to politicians does not ensure them crazy benefits.  The NY retirement system for public employees has been slowly weakened with each additional "tier."  Just like anywhere else, health benefits are increasing in price.  That said, I know my leave benefits and retirement benefits are still much better that most (not all) of my friends who are working at similar salary levels in the private sector.  I tell them to get unionized so they can enjoy the same benefits I have.

Also, again, the focus on the unions when they're just merely advocating for their members just rubs me the wrong way.  I've worked both in the public and private sectors and can say that I prefer arguing for benefits as a group rather than trying to negotiate on my own; there is strength in numbers.  Vote the politicians out that signed the ridiculous benefits for the employees.  Vote a "Cuomo" in there that would at least lay them off if they did not accept lower benefits if that's how you feel about it...

...except the dirty secret is that, even if those laid off were not hired back immediately as had been the case with other layoff rounds, the laid-off employees do rise to the top of the hiring priority lists, so unemployment is typically temporary in any matter (not that being temporarily unemployed is a party).

[3467]

Rotherman is right . The Tribune is mental over our pensions These are most crooked insider deals, Quinn stabbed all the unions in the back along with Madigan when they passed pension theft which mostly impacted teachers. The Illinois Supreme Court as it usually does ignored the nonsense and followed the Constitution. Rauner won because about 400,000 retired teachers( Check the exit Polls) took a revenge vote against Quinn. . You don't screw over nearly a million people and expect to get away with it. 
If you want to go hating public employees well go plow the streets in the next blizzard  or perhaps the Waltons and Koch brothers will be there to help you after an accident

[mgk920]

Rotherman is right . The Tribune is mental over our pensions These are most crooked insider deals, Quinn stabbed all the unions in the back along with Madigan when they passed pension theft which mostly impacted teachers. The Illinois Supreme Court as it usually does ignored the nonsense and followed the Constitution. Rauner won because about 400,000 retired teachers( Check the exit Polls) took a revenge vote against Quinn. . You don't screw over nearly a million people and expect to get away with it. 
If you want to go hating public employees well go plow the streets in the next blizzard  or perhaps the Waltons and Koch brothers will be there to help you after an accident

I was wondering how long it would be before someone in here would be bringing up the *EVIL* Kochs . . . .



Mike

[Rick Powell]

As a former IL public sector worker who is now in the private sector, there are a few things to note:
- No matter what anyone thinks of whether the pensions are too generous or not, the IL Supreme Court has virtually guaranteed that the current pensioners will not be shorted.  Even with some kind of bankruptcy situation, the pensions would probably take less of a haircut than the bond holders and ordinary businesses who have money owed to them based on recent case law where this has happened.  Governor Rauner has acknowledged as much, and says the current pensioners will not lose anything.  The bankruptcy "solution" wouldn't be necessarily good for the taxpayers either. 
- The amount of pensions varies wildly by what system you are in, how long you worked, and what you made while you worked.  Most state workers have a relatively modest pension, with few going over 100k and most being in the range of 30-50k a year.  The very high pensions are mostly school administrators, legislators and a few others, including some who gamed the system by having special laws written that only applied to them and a handful of others.
- All teachers in IL are covered by a state pension.  This is where probably 2/3 of the debt load comes from, not from the "state employees".  School districts have often given generous raises to teachers in their last 4 years, boosting pensions with no direct financial hit to the school district itself, but to be borne by all state taxpayers.  High salary school districts put a special hurt on the state by doing this.  Legislation has been enacted to correct some of this, but if school districts had to come directly to their local taxpayers to fully fund the effects of the salary bumps (instead of being hidden in the state budget as it is now), you can bet there'd be a lot less of it.
- the IL Municipal Retirement Fund, for county and city employees, is in great financial health as opposed to the state, because they always made the annual employer contribution they were supposed to, along with the employees.
- The other good news is that all employees hired 2011 and after belong to a system called "Tier 2" that is much more balanced, in that their contributions are higher and will more than offset the cost of providing the benefits, if all the state and employee contributions are made on schedule.  The pension debt from the Tier 1 employees is huge, but it is a finite number, and reduces every time an old Tier 1 employee passes away.

Now back to talking about roads & stuff.

[johndoe780]

As a former IL public sector worker who is now in the private sector, there are a few things to note:
- No matter what anyone thinks of whether the pensions are too generous or not, the IL Supreme Court has virtually guaranteed that the current pensioners will not be shorted.  Even with some kind of bankruptcy situation, the pensions would probably take less of a haircut than the bond holders and ordinary businesses who have money owed to them based on recent case law where this has happened.  Governor Rauner has acknowledged as much, and says the current pensioners will not lose anything.  The bankruptcy "solution" wouldn't be necessarily good for the taxpayers either. 
- The amount of pensions varies wildly by what system you are in, how long you worked, and what you made while you worked.  Most state workers have a relatively modest pension, with few going over 100k and most being in the range of 30-50k a year.  The very high pensions are mostly school administrators, legislators and a few others, including some who gamed the system by having special laws written that only applied to them and a handful of others.
- All teachers in IL are covered by a state pension.  This is where probably 2/3 of the debt load comes from, not from the "state employees".  School districts have often given generous raises to teachers in their last 4 years, boosting pensions with no direct financial hit to the school district itself, but to be borne by all state taxpayers.  High salary school districts put a special hurt on the state by doing this.  Legislation has been enacted to correct some of this, but if school districts had to come directly to their local taxpayers to fully fund the effects of the salary bumps (instead of being hidden in the state budget as it is now), you can bet there'd be a lot less of it.
- the IL Municipal Retirement Fund, for county and city employees, is in great financial health as opposed to the state, because they always made the annual employer contribution they were supposed to, along with the employees.
- The other good news is that all employees hired 2011 and after belong to a system called "Tier 2" that is much more balanced, in that their contributions are higher and will more than offset the cost of providing the benefits, if all the state and employee contributions are made on schedule.  The pension debt from the Tier 1 employees is huge, but it is a finite number, and reduces every time an old Tier 1 employee passes away.

Now back to talking about roads & stuff.

Let's just hope Madigan passes away soon....

But seriously, only thing that he did right was support the crosstown expressway in his 30+ year tenure as speaker.

[Brandon]

^^ Exactly!  IMRF, ironically being in Illinois, is one of the best funded pensions out there (over 95% funded) as per state law mandating that they be almost fully funded by the municipalities (except Chicago - it has its own pension) and the counties (except Cook - again they have their own).  If every pension in the state had been run like IMRF, then we'd have no issues here in Illinois regarding pensions.  IMHO, IMRF should be the in-state example for all of these other pension funds to follow.  As for gifting anything to contractors or labor lobbyists, IMRF has taken a very hard stand on that and denied pensions to them.