Florida gas station charges almost $6 per gallon

[Rothman]

Since I have not flown in nearly 20 years and I don't fly on principle, I don't have the lateness problem. 

What principle do you adhere to that would prevent you from flying?

[jeffandnicole]

Gasbuddy is a wonderful app.  Even if someone is running late, they're going to have to get gas someplace. 

And most people are fearful that they have to get gas at the gas station closest to the airport, even though they've had cars for the past 30 years where the needle never fell below F for the first 30 miles.

[DeaconG]

Since I have not flown in nearly 20 years and I don't fly on principle, I don't have the lateness problem. 

What principle do you adhere to that would prevent you from flying?

I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought.  And I won't deal with TSA and their security theater. Also, "United breaks guitars".

Most of the places I need to go I can drive-and I don't have to rent a car/be at the mercy of others for transportation. If it means I don't get to go to other places, well...my heart's not broken, and life goes on.

[realjd]

I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought.  And I won't deal with TSA and their security theater. Also, "United breaks guitars".

Most of the places I need to go I can drive-and I don't have to rent a car/be at the mercy of others for transportation. If it means I don't get to go to other places, well...my heart's not broken, and life goes on.

You never have a desire to go OCONUS? Other than maybe a cruise to the Caribbean, you're basically limited to the continental US and Canada.

[jeffandnicole]

Since I have not flown in nearly 20 years and I don't fly on principle, I don't have the lateness problem. 

What principle do you adhere to that would prevent you from flying?

I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought...

What's the "average traveler"?

[formulanone]

What's the "average traveler"?

Possibly the 70-80% of the flying public who has no frequent flier status, and are granted zero perks unless they're up-sold to the the buyer. In return, limited returns on airline-created goofs, because they're not "high value customers".

Another words, exactly what I'm reminded of when have to fly something other than my preferred operating carrier of pressurized flying aluminum tubes.

[DeaconG]

I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought.  And I won't deal with TSA and their security theater. Also, "United breaks guitars".

Most of the places I need to go I can drive-and I don't have to rent a car/be at the mercy of others for transportation. If it means I don't get to go to other places, well...my heart's not broken, and life goes on.

You never have a desire to go OCONUS? Other than maybe a cruise to the Caribbean, you're basically limited to the continental US and Canada.

With my current financial status, I'd be lucky to get the cruise. Maybe in a few years and if TSA would ease up on the damn security theater I'd...why are you laughing?

[Rothman]

What's the "average traveler"?

Possibly the 70-80% of the flying public who has no frequent flier status, and are granted zero perks unless they're up-sold to the the buyer. In return, limited returns on airline-created goofs, because they're not "high value customers".

Huh.  Makes me wonder about the definition of "average."  The possible "70-80%" aren't frequent fliers, but there are very frequent fliers out there.  Makes you wonder if the frequent fliers are actually closer to the average since they fly much more often.

[corco]

If we're getting caught in pedantry, median traveler is probably more accurate, but you know what he meant.

[vdeane]

I don't like the idea of flying either.  You get crammed in with annoying people like sardines, the airlines treat non-business travelers like crap, there's the possibility of lost luggage, and you have to endure the TSA's sexual harassment and humiliation, and can't take basic necessities like toothpaste, shampoo/conditioner, and contact lens solution with you.  No thanks.

[jeffandnicole]

If we're getting caught in pedantry, median traveler is probably more accurate, but you know what he meant.

Actually, I was trying to figure out if the average traveler is travelling for business, or for leisure.

[realjd]

I don't like the idea of flying either.  You get crammed in with annoying people like sardines, the airlines treat non-business travelers like crap, there's the possibility of lost luggage, and you have to endure the TSA's sexual harassment and humiliation, and can't take basic necessities like toothpaste, shampoo/conditioner, and contact lens solution with you.  No thanks.

The experience as an infrequent flyer really isn't that bad. It's not like the airlines are going out of their way to make it unpleasant for leisure travelers stuck in coach. The seats definitely aren't luxurious, but they're generally not uncomfortable either.

One of my favorite things about flying, even if I'm back in coach, is that I can check out from the world for a couple of hours. It gives me a chance to put on some music, load up a good book on my ipad, and not worry about being interrupted. Bonus if I'm not heading immediately to go meet a customer when we land and can have a couple of drinks.

Luggage can't be lost if you carry it on, which also saves on baggage fees. That does mean you need travel size toiletries though.

The TSA security checkpoint is what it is, and there's no helping it. I will say this though: unlike in some other countries, the TSA security checkpoint process is very well defined, so you at least know what to expect before you get there. It's still security theater nonsense, but at least it's predictable security theater nonsense. And they seem to have calmed down lately when it comes to some of their more controversial policies.

For anyone out there who hasn't flown yet and is apprehensive, I encourage you to give it a try. Even if you do find it uncomfortable and terrible, the flights are only a few hours long. And it's very cool to be able to wake up in the morning in Florida and a few hours later be having lunch in Los Angeles, or heading to the airport in the evening and waking up the next morning in London.

[formulanone]

What's the "average traveler"?

Possibly the 70-80% of the flying public who has no frequent flier status, and are granted zero perks unless they're up-sold to the the buyer. In return, limited returns on airline-created goofs, because they're not "high value customers".

Huh.  Makes me wonder about the definition of "average."  The possible "70-80%" aren't frequent fliers, but there are very frequent fliers out there.  Makes you wonder if the frequent fliers are actually closer to the average since they fly much more often.

I base this on a pure guesstimate/SWAG: I'm at the second-highest FF status (Platinum) with Delta, which according to the paperwork they send me each year, which they say is 2% of their customer base. I'd imagine the highest (Diamond) is probably 0.5-1.0%, and the Gold and Silver might only be 10-15%. Factor another 10-15% which might be above-yearly-average fliers (those with 4-6 flights a year...not enough for status, but collecting miles/points) on that airline. If you fly on a Monday or Friday, there's many more frequent fliers, since we're the business travelers that keep the airlines in the black. But on most other days, there aren't nearly as many, just a tiny handful of Premiums get on board first....the rest is mostly leisure travelers, although that usually depends on the destination (or if it's from an airline hub) and time of year. So I base the 70% number of "average flying public" on those experiences.

TSA is a nuisance, but depending on your airport, it's not always all that bad. Small airports tend to handle things with a bit more class and/or less fuss. Bigger ones (or larger checkpoints that are busy) seem to have to bark orders and  and I think that's because the added noise, additional goings-on with so many travelers waiting around creates a little more commotion in the lines and that could be a potential distraction to the blue shirts. Plus, they can be knobs about the whole thing, that's kind of their choice.

[hbelkins]

Since we're talking about flying, or not flying, I'm a non-flyer. I've never flown and I don't ever plan to. I've been in a plane once, in a small general aviation aircraft about 30 years ago, and I was a bit nervous, but I probably would do that again if given the chance.

But in terms of flying commercially, it's too big of a PITA for me to even consider. You're limited in how much stuff you can take, and I tend to travel heavy (more clothes than I need because I'm bad for spilling stuff on myself; a laptop and tablet; my camera; my own toiletries because I'm no fan of what the hotels/motels give you; a cooler with plenty of Diet Coke along for the journey), and even if I was flying somewhere to rent a car, I'd need to take my GPS and radar detector. And there's the TSA nonsense.

Plus, I live 90-plus minutes from the nearest commercial airport (Lexington), and flights out of there are so expensive a lot of people drive on to Louisville or Cincinnati (another 90-minutes).

Some of my colleagues who are going to TransComm in Annapolis in September are flying. I wouldn't even consider it. Even if I flew out of Lexington, I'd have to leave here 3 1/2 hours before my flight to account for the drive, parking, lugging my stuff to the terminal, and going through all the checks. Not to mention I'd be driving west to eventually go east. By driving, by the time you tick off that 3 1/2 hours, I'm already well past Charleston on I-79. Plus I don't have to arrange transportation to Annapolis when I land at BWI, and that's assuming there's a direct flight and I don't have to go to BWI via Atlanta or Pittsburgh.

It's only about 1,100 miles round-trip to Annapolis. I did the math and the fuel cost is only going to be about $130. Doubt I could fly for that rate, even with having to spend an extra night after the conference ends to keep from dragging in at midnight and spending the last four hours slogging through deer-infested WV and northeastern KY in the dark.

And yes, the lost luggage possibility and the near-certainty that a crash would be fatal are big factors in my desire to stay on the ground.

[Rothman]

For me, the choice of flight comes down to price and convenience.  When I was single, the formula was simple:  Unless time-constrained, drive everywhere east of the Mississippi and consider flying west of the Mississippi.  Strictly speaking, it was only to airports west of the Mississippi from here in New York where the cost of airfares and road trips started to become competitive.

Now, of course, I've got kids and a wife.  Having to buy multiple tickets throws that whole formula off and makes driving even more reasonable cost-wise -- again, unless it's time-sensitive (like heading out to visit family in Washington state).

But yeah, anyone who thinks coach is truly comfortable is kidding themselves.  The fact that airlines can get away with putting in reclining seats without leaving adequate room for the person behind you is simply angering.

Still, I agree with whoever pointed out the simply miraculous time we live in.  I remember one day where I was driving around Astoria, OR in the morning and by the night I was driving around Albany, NY.  One day!  Less than 24 hours!  Still think that ability is incredible and I'm glad to be around when it exists (rather than those years of wagon trains mushing their way along the Mormon Trail).

Or, as Louis C.K. put it:

'I had to sit on the runway for 40 minutes.' Oh my god, really? What happened then, did you fly through the air like a bird, incredibly? Did you soar into the clouds, impossibly? Did you partake in the miracle of human flight and then land softly on giant tires that you couldn't even conceive how they f***ing put air in them?...You're sitting in a chair in the sky! You're like a Greek myth right now.

[Rothman]

Plus, I live 90-plus minutes from the nearest commercial airport (Lexington), and flights out of there are so expensive a lot of people drive on to Louisville or Cincinnati (another 90-minutes).

Heh.  When I was a kid, my parents would put me on a plane to visit my grandparents for some time in the summers (the ones I keep talking about in Floyd County).  So, I'd be flying into Cincinnati or Lexington (cost-dependent like you said!), my aunt who lived in Winchester would come pick me up and then -- as my mother would say when she would follow suit -- came the longest part of the trip -- driving down the Mountain Parkway -- past its end along KY 114 to US 23/460 and then KY 80 to KY 122 and down into Wheelwright.  A week or so later, my parents would drive down, pick me up and drive us back to New England.

Good times.

[thenetwork]

Flying isn't/wasn't so bad when I was single.  But then when a $200 R/T ticket is now multiplied by spouse & kids (if applicable), then you better be flying somewhere you cannot drive to (Europe, Hawaii, etc...) otherwise, I will drive.

I remember in the late 80s, there were so many price wars going on in the midwest, you could fly TWA out of Detroit to Chicago, Indy or St. Louis for only $19 each way.  It was far cheaper for my sister to come home from college in Indianapolis to fly to Detroit, I drive her back to my place in Toledo, then my folks would get her from there back home to Cleveland.

...except she decided to fly into Detroit CITY airport instead of flying into Detroit METRO airport, which added another hour of driving for me.

[Rothman]

Ah yes, those early days of deregulation.  Little did we know that those cheap prices would only resolve into the absurd amounts we pay now.

[oscar]

Following up on H.B.'s comments:

My main reasons for preferring to drive are:

-- not dealing with TSA, etc. at the airport, which guarantees a few hours of wasted time

-- not having to organize all my stuff to fit it into luggage without forgetting something -- much easier to just throw everything I might need in my trunk

-- having my own vehicle at my destination

Usually, I'll fly only to the Pacific time zone and points west, or to the Caribbean, Europe, or roadless parts of Canada. But I did some flying on business to locations as close as Pittsburgh or North Carolina. My employer would not indulge me on taking extra time to drive to my destinations, or I was traveling with people who can't stand highway travel even if I do the driving.

Those business trips included one to Orlando, but I didn't have to deal with gas on that trip. I forget whether we used taxis, or a rental car that my colleague returned to the airport the day after I returned home.

[jeffandnicole]

Outside of the TSA's often conflicting requirements (ie: When my wife and I travel, sometimes we go up to the podium together to have our IDs checked; other times we're told only one can be at the podium at a time), and the whole gotta-take-the-shoes-off thing, TSA is a 5 minute hassle.  I probably spent more time finding a place to park.  If someone has never flown, I chalk it up to them listening to everyone else's horror stories; which many times they were told from another friend, and so on. 

BTW, TSA have stated the lines will probably get longer.  TSA horrendously failed a test (missing over 90% of items that are supposed to be caught).  So they're going to go a bit slower, do some more wanding of passengers, etc. 

Ah yes, those early days of deregulation.  Little did we know that those cheap prices would only resolve into the absurd amounts we pay now.

Actually, not even close.  Deregulation prices were quite high.  Per this site: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/, adjusting for inflation, a ticket that costs approximate $350 today would have cost about $600 in 1980.

Now, are there other sites to prove the opposite?  http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/05/don-t-believe-the-airfare-spin-cost-to-travel-is.html tries to do that.  Until you look at the tallying graphic:  It shows a single one-way flight, non-refundable fares, costing $97 in 1975 and $204 today.  But by using one of the many inflation calculators available, that same ticket would cost $426 today.  They don't show that in the article.  And then they try to add on a whole bunch of fees to today's price that most people wouldn't pay, such as a change ticket fee, standby fee, 2nd bag fee, excess-bag fee, etc.  Even the refundable fare shown is about equivalent to today's price, including inflation. 

[Thing 342]

To further derail this thread:

I generally dislike flying for multiple reasons, the main being that seats on airplanes are now way too small to accompany my 6'2 frame (perhaps also the reason why I enjoyed it more when I was younger). Unless I'm in an aisle seat, I feel like I'm being packed in like a sardine, especially when I put the tray table down. Another reason is the fact that air travel involves a lot of just waiting around for things to happen, which stresses the heck out of impatient people like me and my father. I also dislike the fact that one has essentially no control over when one leaves or arrives, which is fine on short-haul trips on subways and buses, but can be quite stressful if a plane being late puts making the next connection in time in jeopardy.

Given that up until recently most of my transcontinental travel has been with my parents, who are solidly against driving further than 500 miles, I generally fly to most destinations west of 85W. However, more recent travels have been by myself (or with friends) and have involved driving distances of over 800 miles.

To get this thread sort of back on track:

While I feel that the gas station in question's pricing scheme is somewhat underhanded, it also represents a classic case of supply and demand. Tourists are obviously willing to pay the inflated price for the convenience (as evidenced by the GMSV images showing a number of people filling up at these stations), otherwise the station(s) would have gone out of business or lowered its prices a long time ago. The reasons as to why they will pay 2-3$ more per gallon despite normally-priced stations being relatively close by have been discussed earlier, and I think boil down to a combination of A: business travellers who are crunched for time and don't foot the bill (but don't want to pay the even more ridiculous rate charged by the rental companies), B: tourists who have money to burn, but aren't familiar with the area and don't see the well-hidden prices until it's too late, and C: those who don't want to wait at the (presumably) busy Wawa and are willing to pay for the convenience.

[formulanone]

...I think boil down to a combination of A: business travellers who are crunched for time and don't foot the bill (but don't want to pay the even more ridiculous rate charged by the rental companies), B: tourists who have money to burn, but aren't familiar with the area and don't see the well-hidden prices until it's too late, and C: those who don't want to wait at the (presumably) busy Wawa and are willing to pay for the convenience.

Also, D: there's a lot of foreign tourists in Orlando who are used to the equivalents of $7-8/gallon gasoline, so $5.50 is a comparative bargain.

[hotdogPi]

One of the owners of the nearby ~2.79 stations (or one of us) could put up several signs that say "GAS - $2.79/GAL - 2 MILES - TURN RIGHT" (with accurate pricing, distance, and directions).

[jeffandnicole]

One of the owners of the nearby ~2.79 stations (or one of us) could put up several signs that say "GAS - $2.79/GAL - 2 MILES - TURN RIGHT" (with accurate pricing, distance, and directions).

No you can't.  And no they can't.  There's right of way issues, billboard issues, and advertising issues.

[hbelkins]

One of the owners of the nearby ~2.79 stations (or one of us) could put up several signs that say "GAS - $2.79/GAL - 2 MILES - TURN RIGHT" (with accurate pricing, distance, and directions).

Not if there are silly zoning restrictions concerning signs or laws/rules/ordinances about signs away from the actual business.