Motorcycles going between cars

[ET21]

should have added in the *popcorn* as well

[hbelkins]

Lane splitters = MFFY. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. It's a selfish, dangerous and jerkoff-ish behavior.

No offence HB, but if your own ego is more important than the safety of other road users, you are the problem here.

Uhh, I am talking about the safety of other road users. As in how lane-splitting endangers their lives and property through the selfish behavior of those doing the lane-splitting.

[sdmichael]

Lane splitters = MFFY. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. It's a selfish, dangerous and jerkoff-ish behavior.

No offence HB, but if your own ego is more important than the safety of other road users, you are the problem here.

Uhh, I am talking about the safety of other road users. As in how lane-splitting endangers their lives and property through the selfish behavior of those doing the lane-splitting.

You're really on about the "selfish and endanger" roll aren't you. I split lanes daily on my commute. I do so in a fairly safe manner, certainly not speeding through as I see some others do. As most motorists seem to stop really close to me when I'm sitting in traffic, I'd prefer to have a bit more control over my safety. I'd rather not get hit on the freeway from behind. It is also legal here and has been so for some time. It is even in the driving manual for California.

Would you prefer all the motorcycles sit in traffic with you, creating a longer backup? How about those in HOV lanes? They are certainly "cheating" by not having to sit in the same traffic you are, by your logic. Perhaps you'd prefer they also sit in the same traffic? I'm glad you're not a DOT employee here. We don't need people like you here.

[hbelkins]

Would you prefer all the motorcycles sit in traffic with you, creating a longer backup? How about those in HOV lanes? They are certainly "cheating" by not having to sit in the same traffic you are, by your logic. Perhaps you'd prefer they also sit in the same traffic? I'm glad you're not a DOT employee here. We don't need people like you here.

I don't have a problem with motorcycles in the HOV lanes because they stay in line.

And trust me, I have no desire to be anywhere near California. San Andreas is the least of your faults. I wouldn't cry if the whole state fell off into the Pacific Ocean.

[jeffandnicole]

Would you prefer all the motorcycles sit in traffic with you, creating a longer backup? How about those in HOV lanes? They are certainly "cheating" by not having to sit in the same traffic you are, by your logic. Perhaps you'd prefer they also sit in the same traffic? I'm glad you're not a DOT employee here. We don't need people like you here.

I don't have a problem with motorcycles in the HOV lanes because they stay in line.

And trust me, I have no desire to be anywhere near California. San Andreas is the least of your faults. I wouldn't cry if the whole state fell off into the Pacific Ocean.

The biggest loss would be no more The Price Is Right.

[DaBigE]

Would you prefer all the motorcycles sit in traffic with you, creating a longer backup? How about those in HOV lanes? They are certainly "cheating" by not having to sit in the same traffic you are, by your logic. Perhaps you'd prefer they also sit in the same traffic? I'm glad you're not a DOT employee here. We don't need people like you here.

Motorcycles are a fraction of the overall traffic. If motorcycles stayed in-line, we're talking what, an additional 50-ft/lane to the queue on a freeway? Maybe an additional 20-ft at a traffic light? I'll live with that. You make it sound like they're the size of semi trucks. As for HOV lanes, apples and oranges. You might as well throw bus and bike lanes into the argument.

[ET21]

Lane splitters = MFFY. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. It's a selfish, dangerous and jerkoff-ish behavior.

No offence HB, but if your own ego is more important than the safety of other road users, you are the problem here.

Uhh, I am talking about the safety of other road users. As in how lane-splitting endangers their lives and property through the selfish behavior of those doing the lane-splitting.

Would you prefer all the motorcycles sit in traffic with you, creating a longer backup? How about those in HOV lanes? They are certainly "cheating" by not having to sit in the same traffic you are, by your logic. Perhaps you'd prefer they also sit in the same traffic? I'm glad you're not a DOT employee here. We don't need people like you here.

Yes. One bike in a traffic lane is not gonna cause the travel time to skyrocket because he is in the backup like everyone else. As DaBigE stated, you make it sound like bikes are semi trucks in backups and add 200+feet to the length

[jakeroot]

Lane splitters = MFFY. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. It's a selfish, dangerous and jerkoff-ish behavior.

No offence HB, but if your own ego is more important than the safety of other road users, you are the problem here.

Uhh, I am talking about the safety of other road users. As in how lane-splitting endangers their lives and property through the selfish behavior of those doing the lane-splitting.

Would you prefer all the motorcycles sit in traffic with you, creating a longer backup? How about those in HOV lanes? They are certainly "cheating" by not having to sit in the same traffic you are, by your logic. Perhaps you'd prefer they also sit in the same traffic? I'm glad you're not a DOT employee here. We don't need people like you here.

Yes. One bike in a traffic lane is not gonna cause the travel time to skyrocket because he is in the backup like everyone else. As DaBigE stated, you make it sound like bikes are semi trucks in backups and add 200+feet to the length

It probably doesn't make any noticeable difference in travel times within, say two days of changing the law, but in time it would make a difference, albeit small. I know of quite a few people who would rather ride a motorcycle on a daily basis but don't because there's no obvious advantage; if lane splitting was permitted, stop-and-go traffic is of little concern to them.

Really, the advantages are limited to the motorcycling itself. Not only is the potential time savings of riding a motorcycle a huge plus, but there is also, in theory, a huge safety benefit in almost completely eliminating rear-end collisions. Beyond that, motorcycles are clearly the more vulnerable of the two (car and motorcycle). Forcing them to ride in an area that has a higher inherent danger of a collision simply because you think it's rude is nonsense. I'm not saying that they wouldn't be involved in collision when splitting lanes, but at least they can see them coming. 

[ET21]

I'll just leave this here. Obviously we are all entitled to our own opinions on the subject and I respect that. I just flat out think it's dangerous, stupid, and could get someone killed if it hasn't already in this world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4KqJYDwxsk

[DaBigE]

Really, the advantages are limited to the motorcycling itself. Not only is the potential time savings of riding a motorcycle a huge plus, but there is also, in theory, a huge safety benefit in almost completely eliminating rear-end collisions. Beyond that, motorcycles are clearly the more vulnerable of the two (car and motorcycle). Forcing them to ride in an area that has a higher inherent danger of a collision simply because you think it's rude is nonsense. I'm not saying that they wouldn't be involved in collision when splitting lanes, but at least they can see them coming.

While you may reduce the number of motorcycles being rear-ended, lane-splitting is more prone to put a motorcycle into a car's blind spot, increasing the risk of sideswipes. A rear-end crash you'd have a better chance of anticipating (mirrors, screeching tires); side-swipes come with less/little warning.

[hbelkins]

If you're so damned worried about being rear-ended on a frigging motorcycle, just pull up next to the first car you're behind on the shoulder and then when traffic starts moving again, get back in your place in line. Don't cut in front of everyone else under the misguided pretense that you're invoking a sense of self-protection.

Or use a safer vehicle.

[Brandon]

Just an observation, but I do notice that the lane splitting proponents tend to be from California and the West Coast, while those of us most against it (and consider it downright rude) are from the Midwest and South.

[jakeroot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4KqJYDwxsk

That's not lane splitting. Please don't think that's what I'm condoning.

Just an observation, but I do notice that the lane splitting proponents tend to be from California and the West Coast, while those of us most against it (and consider it downright rude) are from the Midwest and South.

I've noticed this as well. The "everyone's an enemy" attitude is substantially more prevalent back east than it is out west, at least in my experience.

While you may reduce the number of motorcycles being rear-ended, lane-splitting is more prone to put a motorcycle into a car's blind spot, increasing the risk of sideswipes. A rear-end crash you'd have a better chance of anticipating (mirrors, screeching tires); side-swipes come with less/little warning.

I tend to measure "danger" by how easy it is to escape a situation (hard to escape = dangerous, easy to escape = safe). My fear with a rear-end collision is that a motorcyclist probably doesn't have anywhere to go, even if they do hear the screeching of the tires (which is not always something that occurs) or see the car approaching from behind (it's not feasible for them to keep their eyes glued to their mirrors). Most motorcyclists stop their bikes pointing towards the rear of a car, so they can't just dump the clutch and escape (best case, they hop off and run). Riding between cars, you can see someone about to move into your path and (hopefully) adjust your path accordingly. So, by my measures at least, rear-end collisions are more dangerous than those which occur while lane-splitting. I'm not saying that one occurs more often than the other, just that the ability to escape a sideswipe is greater than your ability to escape a rear-end collision.

Or use a safer vehicle.

Actually, that's my point. Bike riding is, in general, more dangerous than driving a car (no crumple zone, no cage, no airbag, etc). Just by riding a bike, they are putting themselves in an inherently more dangerous situation than if they were driving a car. Given this, they should be permitted to take control of the situation and ride where they feel safe, not where we, the jealous 'murican, thinks they should.

[vdeane]

Wouldn't lane splitting increase the time it takes the queue back up to speed?  Everyone would have to stop to let the bikes merge back in rather when they could be accelerating.

Plus if they want to go slower than you do and are now in front when they weren't before (in my experience most motorcyclists want to ride 5 mph below the speed limit or at it, whereas I like to ride 5 mph above it), you're screwed.

[jakeroot]

Wouldn't lane splitting increase the time it takes the queue back up to speed?  Everyone would have to stop to let the bikes merge back in rather when they could be accelerating.

Bikes are a lot faster than cars in terms of acceleration; they'll be on the other side of the intersection before the first car makes it midway through. If lanes are ending, they'll be more worried about each other than a car.

Plus if they want to go slower than you do and are now in front when they weren't before (in my experience most motorcyclists want to ride 5 mph below the speed limit or at it, whereas I like to ride 5 mph above it), you're screwed.

Bikers who are more interested in riding slowly usually don't lane split. So, yeah, you could be screwed, but I think the chances are slim. At least in my experience, motorcyclists tend to move along faster than most cars. Perhaps your area is an anomaly?

[vdeane]

Most of the bikes I encounter are people going out on leisurely Sunday drives and taking in the scenery.  Don't usually see them on day to day commuting, though I know at least some people at NYSDOT do commute by motorcycle.

[sdmichael]

Just an observation, but I do notice that the lane splitting proponents tend to be from California and the West Coast, while those of us most against it (and consider it downright rude) are from the Midwest and South.

As it is legal in California, that makes sense. It is illegal in the other 49 states and Canada. I'm not sure about Mexico. Most other civilized countries, it is legal.

[sdmichael]

Would you prefer all the motorcycles sit in traffic with you, creating a longer backup? How about those in HOV lanes? They are certainly "cheating" by not having to sit in the same traffic you are, by your logic. Perhaps you'd prefer they also sit in the same traffic? I'm glad you're not a DOT employee here. We don't need people like you here.

I don't have a problem with motorcycles in the HOV lanes because they stay in line.

And trust me, I have no desire to be anywhere near California. San Andreas is the least of your faults. I wouldn't cry if the whole state fell off into the Pacific Ocean.

So, the loss of nearly 40 million people is "ok"... got it. You really do have problems, don't you? Seek help dude.

[sdmichael]

If you're so damned worried about being rear-ended on a frigging motorcycle, just pull up next to the first car you're behind on the shoulder and then when traffic starts moving again, get back in your place in line. Don't cut in front of everyone else under the misguided pretense that you're invoking a sense of self-protection.

Or use a safer vehicle.

Gawd... really dude? Cutting in line? Explain to me, EXACTLY, how when I lane-split, I'm "cutting in line" when I don't even remotely add to the line in the first place? Are you just jealous of the ability to avoid the line? Let me guess... you also get pissed at people who make appointments at the DMV who don't have to wait in the line? Get over it. Safety is the least of your considerations. Guess what, we don't all have to sit in the same traffic you do. We can make decisions which can avoid that traffic. You made the choice to go drive, deal with it and quit bitching about others that aren't dealing with the same BS you are. Stay out of California, please. Your kind (the kind that bitches and complains the way you do) aren't welcome here. Maybe next time I'll just drive and add to the traffic congestion. How about that?

Or... to put in in another way... Come to California... sit in traffic. I'll split lanes past you and laugh my ass off that you're still stuck in traffic. Try to "stop" me and use your vehicle as weapon, you'll be sitting in jail... I'll still be splitting lanes. My point, it is legal and safer than you'd think. No mode of transport is really "safe". You're just a blowhard that wants to complain about other modes of transport. How do you contribute in a positive way to your state DOT when you're supposed to consider ALL modes? Or are you trying to figure out ways to prevent others from "cutting in line"?

[sdmichael]

Wouldn't lane splitting increase the time it takes the queue back up to speed?  Everyone would have to stop to let the bikes merge back in rather when they could be accelerating.

Plus if they want to go slower than you do and are now in front when they weren't before (in my experience most motorcyclists want to ride 5 mph below the speed limit or at it, whereas I like to ride 5 mph above it), you're screwed.

No, even with accelerating to the speed limit, I'm far ahead of the cars and by far not contributing to any slowness on their part. I prefer to ride at or near (within a few mph, I don't speed on surface streets) the speed limit on surface roadways. On average, I tend to gravitate toward 80 mph on freeways, and I'm still being passed. I'm rarely (and when I am I slow down) the "fastest" vehicle on the roadway.

[Brandon]

Just an observation, but I do notice that the lane splitting proponents tend to be from California and the West Coast, while those of us most against it (and consider it downright rude) are from the Midwest and South.

I've noticed this as well. The "everyone's an enemy" attitude is substantially more prevalent back east than it is out west, at least in my experience.

Has nothing to do with "everyone's an enemy" attitude.  It's just considered rude.  Rude behavior is very much frowned upon here in the Midwest.

As it is legal in California, that makes sense. It is illegal in the other 49 states and Canada. I'm not sure about Mexico. Most other civilized countries, it is legal.

And it is illegal in most civilized states.  We in the Midwest hardly consider California civilized.  And please cite where it is legal in these other countries.

[SP Cook]

Or... to put in in another way... Come to California... sit in traffic. I'll split lanes past you and laugh my ass off that you're still stuck in traffic. Try to "stop" me and use your vehicle as weapon, you'll be sitting in jail...

And that is the arrogant self-centered and detached from reality me me me me me attitude of some bikers that cause all the problems.

You choose to ride a donor-cycle.  Fine, your choice.  BUT, no, everybody else, must accommodate Y O U.  Not only your RECREATIONAL choice, but a, legal or illegal, STUPID method or riding it. 

Eventually the law of averages will catch up to you.   And, no matter what the law says, is a lick on you and your foolish choices. 

Around here we have this so-called motorcycle safety program.  Of which 99% of it is preaching at the 99% who do not ride donor-cycles about "rights" and bitching about having to wear a helmet and not being allowed to zig and zag through traffic. 

If you want to ride a donor-cycle in an irresponsible way, fine.  Just accept the laws as they are, or should be, and try to leave a clean kidney.

[sdmichael]

Or... to put in in another way... Come to California... sit in traffic. I'll split lanes past you and laugh my ass off that you're still stuck in traffic. Try to "stop" me and use your vehicle as weapon, you'll be sitting in jail...

And that is the arrogant self-centered and detached from reality me me me me me attitude of some bikers that cause all the problems.

You choose to ride a donor-cycle.  Fine, your choice.  BUT, no, everybody else, must accommodate Y O U.  Not only your RECREATIONAL choice, but a, legal or illegal, STUPID method or riding it. 

Eventually the law of averages will catch up to you.   And, no matter what the law says, is a lick on you and your foolish choices. 

Around here we have this so-called motorcycle safety program.  Of which 99% of it is preaching at the 99% who do not ride donor-cycles about "rights" and bitching about having to wear a helmet and not being allowed to zig and zag through traffic. 

If you want to ride a donor-cycle in an irresponsible way, fine.  Just accept the laws as they are, or should be, and try to leave a clean kidney.

Donor-cycle? Nice attitude dude. Recreational? I haven't owned a car since 2011. Are you really that arrogant and stupid to call it a "donor-cycle"? ME ME ME? How do you get that part, exactly? Does it really piss you off that I can go ahead of you, not even adding the traffic jam you yourself are helping to create? Get over it. Worry about more important things.

I wear full gear every time I ride. I'm not "preaching about safety" and bitching about wearing a helmet. Gawd... way to stereotype an ENTIRE GROUP because of something you saw once.

People like you are a part of the problem with your pissed-off attitude. SO WHAT if someone gets ahead of you? You're going to wish DEATH upon them? You sure as hell seem to wish DEATH upon me with your "DONOR CYCLE" bullshit. What the f is your problem? GET HELP before you kill someone.

[DaBigE]

Gawd... way to stereotype an ENTIRE GROUP because of something you saw once.

The worst of any group gets anecdotally blown out of proportion because of one or two bad experiences...bicyclists, motorcyclists, truckers, pilots, cops, government workers... it's human nature. What you experience last is what you remember most.

Admittedly, I cringe a little every time I see a sport bike/crotch-rocket. Why? Because so many of them treat the freeway near my home as their personal drag-strip late at night. The majority ones I've encountered in the day time are passing other vehicles with the narrowest of margins, usually well above any posted speed limits. Are all sport bike riders like that? No, but unfortunately a few have ruined my impression for all of them.

In the end, attitude is everything. You gotta give respect in order to get it.

[Brandon]

ME ME ME? How do you get that part, exactly? Does it really piss you off that I can go ahead of you, not even adding the traffic jam you yourself are helping to create? Get over it. Worry about more important things.

Traveling between the lanes is all about "ME ME ME!"  That's why it's MFFY behavior.  Wait your turn like a civilized human being.