Should funeral processions be banned?

[jeffandnicole]

weddings and receptions (I'm getting married in February and would gladly do the whole thing at the courthouse, but my fiancee's first marriage was done that way and she'd like to do something slightly larger, though our reception is going to be held at a board game café so instead of the traditional dancing there will be Catan instead)

I feel your pain. I'm in the middle of planning a wedding for May and while I don't mind the ceremony part, I'd gladly ditch the reception. There's several thousand dollars right there we could easily save. Why should we pay to feed people that are just going to bitch about the food selection later? Want to eat? There's plenty of restaurants in the area that will serve you what you want to eat. You want to dance? Go to a club. Unfortunately, no one else sees the same logic.   [/rant]

So why are you having a reception?  If it's because the significant other wants it, then, well, welcome to married life.  If there's compromise - the SO wants a reception but you can keep the food to a cheaper option, cash bar or just beer & wine, etc, then that's fine. But if the SO demands everything, then, well, that's not going to bode well for the future.

If it's the parents or in-laws that want the reception, they can pay for it. 

Just don't make a big mistake of going into debt over it.

[DaBigE]

weddings and receptions (I'm getting married in February and would gladly do the whole thing at the courthouse, but my fiancee's first marriage was done that way and she'd like to do something slightly larger, though our reception is going to be held at a board game café so instead of the traditional dancing there will be Catan instead)

I feel your pain. I'm in the middle of planning a wedding for May and while I don't mind the ceremony part, I'd gladly ditch the reception. There's several thousand dollars right there we could easily save. Why should we pay to feed people that are just going to bitch about the food selection later? Want to eat? There's plenty of restaurants in the area that will serve you what you want to eat. You want to dance? Go to a club. Unfortunately, no one else sees the same logic.   [/rant]

So why are you having a reception?  If it's because the significant other wants it, then, well, welcome to married life.  If there's compromise - the SO wants a reception but you can keep the food to a cheaper option, cash bar or just beer & wine, etc, then that's fine. But if the SO demands everything, then, well, that's not going to bode well for the future.

If it's the parents or in-laws that want the reception, they can pay for it. 

Just don't make a big mistake of going into debt over it.

As I eluded to in my last post, my fiancée wants a "traditional" wedding, as do her parents and my parents, hence why I'm the lone sheep in this line of thought. While I have not been married before, I am well aware of the pitfalls and necessary compromises. And there is no way in hell I would even consider going into debt to pay for it. We're already saving quite a bit of money using our connections with transportation, entertainment, and decorations. We both agreed to delay a "honeymoon" indefinitely, as a way to save money, also because we both feel it's basically a vacation just with a fancy title. Many other compromises have been made in the planning already. The reason why the cost is so high is all the invitees she wants. Yes, not all will show up, but we have to be prepared if they do.

[Duke87]

When I graduated college they explicitly gave me the option of buying a cap and gown and attending the ceremony or just having them send me my diploma in the mail. I eagerly selected the latter. I hate being in the spotlight. The idea of getting up on stage in front of a huge crowd is something I absolutely dread.

I'd love to take the same approach to getting married but I've already cynically resigned myself to the fact that I will have zero control over what happens since it's her wedding, not mine.

As for funerals, I thus far have not attended any, although I did attend a wake once. So no, I have never been one of the people in the procession.
My complaint about them stems largely from the fact that I generally believe it is immoral to needlessly get in anyone's way. I hate it when people get in my way, and, since I practice what I preach, I try to avoid getting in the way of others.

[kkt]

You guys are fighting off the upsurge in drone usage by telling how wonderful it is to find a package stuffed in a mailbox partially closed on a rainy day after it's sat in a truck for half a week.

Okay, I'll go out on a limb and venture an opinion that no funeral procession should be allowed to block an intersection for more than a couple of days, max.  Half a week is right out.

[Scott5114]

As I said before, my opposition to them is part of a broader distaste for what I feel is unnecessary ceremony and tradition. I feel the same way about school graduations (I would have happily stayed home and gotten my diploma in the mail; which as it happens we had to do anyway since finals were after graduation so the "diploma" they gave at the ceremony was an empty holder), weddings and receptions (I'm getting married in February and would gladly do the whole thing at the courthouse, but my fiancee's first marriage was done that way and she'd like to do something slightly larger, though our reception is going to be held at a board game café so instead of the traditional dancing there will be Catan instead), football homecomings (what are you coming home from again, exactly?) and so forth. So I am not going to disrupt funeral processions, and will tolerate them because I'm a civilized member of society, but if I had my way I'd dispense with them, especially since I feel they can be dangerous and disruptive themselves. 

There's a board game cafe in Norman? Why the hell did I not know about this when I lived there?

Not quite yet, they signed the lease for it the other day and are planning on opening in October or November. It's called Loot & XP and will be located at Main & 24th Avenue SW.

[PHLBOS]

Okay, I'll go out on a limb and venture an opinion that no funeral procession should be allowed to block an intersection for more than a couple of days, max.  Half a week is right out.

  Am I missing something here?

Since when do funeral processions last/block intersections for a couple of days?  Most of the processions I've seen or been typically run/last in minutes and the longer-distance ones the procession travel time might be an hour at the most.  Even with such, the procession train only blocks each intersection for just a few minutes.

[Rothman]

Okay, I'll go out on a limb and venture an opinion that no funeral procession should be allowed to block an intersection for more than a couple of days, max.  Half a week is right out.

  Am I missing something here?

Since when do funeral processions last/block intersections for a couple of days?  Most of the processions I've seen or been typically run/last in minutes and the longer-distance ones the procession travel time might be an hour at the most.  Even with such, the procession train only blocks each intersection for just a few minutes.

I think someone's sarcasm detector is faulty, whether it's mine or PHLBOS'. 

[ET21]

but it is in Illinois, which is where I am right now. 

Since when??? I've seen a dozen processions of the last month

[PHLBOS]

I think someone's sarcasm detector is faulty

Such is a bit tough when only going by just text on a screen and when it's from someone that I've never personally met.  Plus, some posters (not just here) aren't necessarily joking with their posts.

[Laura]

I don't think funeral processions should be banned - I just always found them odd. I much prefer funerals where everything happens at one place - ceremony at the church, walk outside to the cemetery, walk back inside to the wake/luncheon. I just always thought the driving around to each place was a pain. When the funeral is all in one place, people will hang around for all of the events, whereas they are more likely to duck out early with the constant shuffling around.

You know what would really be beautiful? A funeral service that was conducted entirely outside. I'm curious to see how funeral traditions will change in my lifetime as different generations pass on, in the way that wedding ceremonies and receptions have changed over the years.

[algorerhythms]

As I said before, my opposition to them is part of a broader distaste for what I feel is unnecessary ceremony and tradition. I feel the same way about school graduations (I would have happily stayed home and gotten my diploma in the mail; which as it happens we had to do anyway since finals were after graduation so the "diploma" they gave at the ceremony was an empty holder), weddings and receptions (I'm getting married in February and would gladly do the whole thing at the courthouse, but my fiancee's first marriage was done that way and she'd like to do something slightly larger, though our reception is going to be held at a board game café so instead of the traditional dancing there will be Catan instead), football homecomings (what are you coming home from again, exactly?) and so forth. So I am not going to disrupt funeral processions, and will tolerate them because I'm a civilized member of society, but if I had my way I'd dispense with them, especially since I feel they can be dangerous and disruptive themselves. 

There's a board game cafe in Norman? Why the hell did I not know about this when I lived there?

Not quite yet, they signed the lease for it the other day and are planning on opening in October or November. It's called Loot & XP and will be located at Main & 24th Avenue SW.

It figures one would open right after I move away...

[admtrap]

It rather amuses me that the thread is focused on whether to ban them or not as if it were the only question involved, when the OP's concern wasn't whether they were appropriate, but whether they were safe.   The whole safety issue with them is that they are infrequent enough that most of us don't even consider the possibility of one being nearby most of the time.    I went to school next door to a very large LA area cemetery for a year, and saw perhaps six that year - and perhaps four others during the entire rest of my life. 

A hearse leads a procession, so the front end is relatively identifiable - but there is no such indication of what the final car is, generally.  So a person in the stuck-in-intersection mid-turn has no idea when it is actually safe to proceed, unless the intersection is controlled by a traffic cop (or someone acting as one anyway - it need not actually be a sworn police officer, just someone who is identifiable quickly as directing traffic at the moment).   

Similar concerns apply to a waiting-on-green person potentially getting T-boned in the same way.  When I'm stopped at a signal controlled intersection, I don't particularly feel a need to observe the traffic crossing very carefully - it's just random traffic moving through.  I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this - especially if the procession is in the far right lane on the side opposite from me (the left-turn direction), and thus may be obscured by several lanes of traffic from my vantagepoint.   Unless I actually see the hearse itself, I have no way of knowing a funeral procession is occurring.

Having to wait an extra signal light cycle once or twice a year is a minor annoyance, but getting whacked by someone running a red light because the situation is rare and unclear is a safety issue.  So my preference would be no red-light running unless there's a traffic escort to control the intersection and keep everyone (the procession AND ordinary traffic crossing) safe. 

[US71]

As I've said before, funerals and the attendant ceremonies are for the survivors, not for the deceased.

My mother didn't want a funeral We had a visitation at the funeral home and then a short graveside service the next day at the cemetery.

When my dad died, I didn't want any kind of service or ceremony. I would have been content to just let the funeral home place him in the casket and bury him. But my brother insisted on doing some sort of service because my dad had four siblings who are of an age that they expect that kind of tradition. So we didn't do any public visitation at the funeral home -- for which I was glad, because my mom's visitation was pure torture for me -- and instead met at the cemetery for a short service conducted by his niece's husband.

I kinda feel sorry for future generations that won't have any traditions to hold on to.

Traditions change. Both sets of my grandparents would come to my parents house for Christmas, but they're gone now, as are both my parents.

[corco]

Honestly, how often does this situation even come up? I am in the presence of a funeral possession maybe once a year- certainly not worth getting my panties in a wad about.

They're fine, HB is right that they don't hurt anybody and it's a nice small show of respect for others- one of very few left in this country, leave it be.

[J N Winkler]

I think you may have tied sdmichael for MFFY of the year on AA Roads.

Here is my thought:  why not just walk away?  Not just from this discussion, but also from the major disagreement over motorcycle lane-splitting that I was not even aware was going on until I pulled up sdmichael's member profile and looked at his recent posts to understand why you were taking him to task.

For each of us there comes a time when, no matter how hard we try, we cannot get another person to acknowledge any merit in our point of view, let alone admit that it may be correct.  In such cases it usually works better to stand back and let reality do the educating.

Sdmichael is Mike Ballard, a longtime contributor to this hobby.  I also understand he is employed by the California DMV.  I do not know if this is in a customer-facing role.  Nevertheless, I suggest you might want to consider what this means in terms of developing skill in goading other people into open displays of rage that result in their being punished.

[froggie]

Last funeral I was at, the entire ceremony/procession happened at the cemetery where the deceased was laid to rest.  Neatly solved the funeral procession problem.

[DaBigE]

It's impossible to predict the exact moment of anything in life. If you can't handle a 1-2 minute delay in your life, either you have a very nice life seeing everything moves at your beckon call or you have severe control issues.

I can count the number of funeral processions I've been apart of and have witnessed and/or had the slightest delay in my travels on one hand. In any case, I have yet to see a procession disrupt a traffic signal by more than 1 cycle. I've seen more malfunctioning traffic signals (more dangerous, IMHO), than funeral processions.

[1995hoo]

It's impossible to predict the exact moment of anything in life. If you can't handle a 1-2 minute delay in your life, either you have a very nice life seeing everything moves at your beckon call or you have severe control issues.

I can count the number of funeral processions I've been apart of and have witnessed and/or had the slightest delay in my travels on one hand. In any case, I have yet to see a procession disrupt a traffic signal by more than 1 cycle. I've seen more malfunctioning traffic signals (more dangerous, IMHO), than funeral processions.

The only funeral processions I've seen that are disruptive to the degree you describe in the second paragraph are major ones for which they close the streets altogether: Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, police officers killed in the line of duty whose funerals attract major numbers of out-of-town policemen, the (then thought to be) unknown soldier from the Vietnam War, that sort of thing. Goes with the territory living near the Nation's Capital, I guess.

[US71]

Last funeral I was at, the entire ceremony/procession happened at the cemetery where the deceased was laid to rest.  Neatly solved the funeral procession problem.

Pretty much what we did with my dad.

[oscar]

Last funeral I was at, the entire ceremony/procession happened at the cemetery where the deceased was laid to rest.  Neatly solved the funeral procession problem.

One bygone tradition, whose gradual disappearance has made processions more popular, is for churches to have their own adjacent cemeteries. Land use restrictions (including ones specifically about the siting of cemeteries), and high land prices in urban and suburban areas, have made that option more difficult. But even some rural areas have fewer cemeteries than churches, with independent cemeteries not located next to any of the local churches.

My mother's parish church had its own cemetery, so no procession needed for her service. But both the church and the cemetery were established in the 18th century, when California was still part of Spain, so the rules were a little different.

[kkt]

Having the body at the memorial service is not part of my tradition, but apparently it helps some people.  Funeral processions are way down there on the list of things that obstruct my way in traffic.  Now if we could ban pro and college football games, that would save me 50 hours a year in traffic and detours...

[Duke87]

Is it really that bad for someone they don't know to acknowledge, "You have suffered a loss and are grieving. We pay our respects to you and offer your sympathy for the loss of your loved one," if they stop for your procession?

To some degree I think it's a question of culture. If this is customary in an area, well... then it's a thing people do that I suppose isn't harmful. But it certainly isn't customary everywhere. As I mentioned elsewhere, prior to reading this thread I have never in my life heard of someone stopping to pay respects for a stranger's funeral procession. 

Seems to me this is an extension of a greater cultural divide in terms of how much interaction with strangers is considered normal. I live in a place where, when you walk down the street, you avoid making eye contact and ignore everyone else around, unless you have a specific reason to interact with them or it's someone you know. If you look someone you don't know in the eye and say hello, you may get a very defensive reaction.

But then it's all a question of people's priorities. In laid back country life, initiating a little casual interaction in is seen as polite and people appreciate you taking the time to do it. In hustle and bustle city life, it is seen as rude and people don't appreciate you wasting their time.



Also, to actually answer the title question: no, I do not think funeral processions should be banned. I may not be a fan of the practice but I'm not the type to argue that everyone should by law be forced to do things the way I like. Being a minor annoyance is not a crime.

[J N Winkler]

It seems that most of our society has strong feelings very much to the contrary of yours in how they approach grieving.     

You are clearly a very thick-skinned individual that has very little trouble with loss compared to the average person (as made clear not so much for your emphatic disdain for processions but that for anyone who burdens others in any way with their own death or a loved one's).

I hope that you reach out to the grieving to share your vision of strength under crushing sadness.  You seem uniquely qualified for a very lucrative career in grief counseling if you ever feel like being rich and successful.

I also hope that you are spreading your message that all people show utmost courtesy under duress.  It would be a beautiful world if we all put aside our problems and deferred to others as you describe.  I have no doubt you lead by example in this regard.

The word all this calls to mind is trowel.

[Duke87]

Know what I did? I found an alternate route that didn't require me to go by the school crossing. I didn't complain about being held up.

Which you could do because the school crossing occurs at the same time and location every day. One cannot plan a route to avoid funeral processions since one generally does not know where they will be going and when.

This is important because a five minute setback which is highly predictable can be planned around, whereas a five minute setback that occurs effectively at random cannot except by leaving early in case it happens.

Human psychology is such that people get uncomfortable when they feel they are not in control of a situation. If I know I'm going to hit traffic I will be far more mentally prepared for it than if I encounter it unexpectedly.

[Pete from Boston]

Know what I did? I found an alternate route that didn't require me to go by the school crossing. I didn't complain about being held up.

Which you could do because the school crossing occurs at the same time and location every day. One cannot plan a route to avoid funeral processions since one generally does not know where they will be going and when.

This is important because a five minute setback which is highly predictable can be planned around, whereas a five minute setback that occurs effectively at random cannot except by leaving early in case it happens.

Human psychology is such that people get uncomfortable when they feel they are not in control of a situation. If I know I'm going to hit traffic I will be far more mentally prepared for it than if I encounter it unexpectedly.

I wish I could drive around predictable disruptions.  We have no end of unpredictable disruptions here.  I guess that's part of why rare funeral processions don't faze me.  City life is about bumping into other people's lives constantly.  You roll with far worse delay and interruption than funerals without the luxury of arguing against the motivations of the people at the heart of it.