Daylight Saving Time In The US

[agentsteel53]

The sun should come up in late morning, giving us more evening hours to do things.  Daylight Savings Time should be year round and how about one more hour of it?

the sun should shine 24 hours a day.  let's keep manipulating the clocks until we can achieve this.

[DaBigE]

The sun should come up in late morning, giving us more evening hours to do things.  Daylight Savings Time should be year round and how about one more hour of it?

the sun should shine 24 hours a day.  let's keep manipulating the clocks until we can achieve this.

Aren't there some areas around the Arctic Circle where this is already true for at least a few days every year?

[agentsteel53]

The sun should come up in late morning, giving us more evening hours to do things.  Daylight Savings Time should be year round and how about one more hour of it?

the sun should shine 24 hours a day.  let's keep manipulating the clocks until we can achieve this.

Aren't there some areas around the Arctic Circle where this is already true for at least a few days every year?

yes, but we need it all the time!

[empirestate]

the sun should shine 24 hours a day.  let's keep manipulating the clocks until we can achieve this.

Aren't there some areas around the Arctic Circle where this is already true for at least a few days every year?

If by "a few days" you mean fully half the year, then yes.

[kphoger]

The sun does not shine 24 hours a day near the Arctic Circle for fully half the year.  Near the North Pole, I suppose, but that's a long way from the Arctic Circle.

[1995hoo]

The sun does not shine 24 hours a day near the Arctic Circle for fully half the year.  Near the North Pole, I suppose, but that's a long way from the Arctic Circle.

The South Pole, too, which is even further from the Arctic Circle.

[vdeane]

Not so much "waiting for school buses" but walking to school.  See other thread about drivers (who I think must not have kids) wanting to drive 30+ mph in school zones even when it's dark.

People still walk to school in the morning?  In my district, all the walkers were driven in the morning by their parents on the way to work; they only walked home in the afternoon.  Why?  Because they could.

Yes, they do.  Our district does not provide busing for students who live less than 1/2 mile from school, and in most cases by the time they're two miles away they're closer to some other school, so there's a small busing donut around each school.  If the students live within walking distance, why drive them?  Helicopter parents?  Genuinely dangerous neighborhood?

I think laziness.  It's definitely not a bad area; quite the opposite, actually.  School taxes in the area are VERY high.  The district is centralized and has a small amount of students compared to the other suburbs, and student achievement rivals private schools (for this reason, houses in the area rarely stay on sale long enough to be listed).  On second thought, my area probably doesn't represent mainstream America in the slightest (90% of voters are democrats).  It's more like a piece of Canada transported south (hey, we have the snow for it, and the schools never close ).

[texaskdog]

The sun does not shine 24 hours a day near the Arctic Circle for fully half the year.  Near the North Pole, I suppose, but that's a long way from the Arctic Circle.

Even if the sun sets in Anchorage they still get 24 hours of daylight for a few months being that it is still light for a while before & after sunset.

[kkt]

The sun does not shine 24 hours a day near the Arctic Circle for fully half the year.  Near the North Pole, I suppose, but that's a long way from the Arctic Circle.

Even if the sun sets in Anchorage they still get 24 hours of daylight for a few months being that it is still light for a while before & after sunset.

Anchorage is below the Arctic Circle, and the sun does set even around the summer solstice and you get twilight for a few hours until dawn.  (I haven't been to Anchorage, but I've been to Yellowknife, which is a little farther north than Anchorage.)

[Jim]

From what I heard of Daylight Savings time, Indiana (or one part of the state) doesn't observe DST from a tale of farmers concerned their livestock will be confused by the time change. ...

I never understood that argument.  Who said you have to tell the cows about DST?

[Jim]

The main thing I don't understand about this is why the changeover dates are not symmetric.  In the US, we now keep DST in the fall until, what, about 7 weeks before the solstice?  But we don't switch back in the spring until around 11 weeks after the solstice.  I'd be happy to split the difference, and go about 9 or 10 weeks on each side of the solstice in standard time.  Why is a dark morning OK at the end of October but an equally dark morning is a problem in mid-to-late February?

[6a]

The sun does not shine 24 hours a day near the Arctic Circle for fully half the year.  Near the North Pole, I suppose, but that's a long way from the Arctic Circle.

Even if the sun sets in Anchorage they still get 24 hours of daylight for a few months being that it is still light for a while before & after sunset.

Anchorage is below the Arctic Circle, and the sun does set even around the summer solstice and you get twilight for a few hours until dawn.  (I haven't been to Anchorage, but I've been to Yellowknife, which is a little farther north than Anchorage.)

In Fairbanks on the summer solstice the sun sets for just under three hours (it actually sets after midnight) but the twilight is more than ample to fool you into thinking the sun was still up.  Somewhere around here I have a picture I took at 2am on a cloudy day morning.  It looked like a twilight elsewhere.

edit: found it...

Given I've been informed that America's standard is a 40 hour week (rather than a 35 hour week, though we might do 8.30 or 8 or 9 to 5 or 5.30 for 37.5 or 40 hour official weeks and many people work more), that means starting late, surely? You must surely have a lot of light in the morning for doing those chores!

40 hours/week is official "full time", not including lunch.  But many people work longer, either through working two or more "part time" jobs or by being salaried and exempt from overtime or by working "off the clock" by loyalty to the job or feeling that they'll look bad if they don't.

Yeah, I can't tell you the last time I only worked 40 hours.  50 is usually expected of most folks in our business.

[1995hoo]

From what I heard of Daylight Savings time, Indiana (or one part of the state) doesn't observe DST from a tale of farmers concerned their livestock will be confused by the time change. ...

I never understood that argument.  Who said you have to tell the cows about DST?

I think that's sort of the point–the animals have no idea that their human caretakers are observing a different time and so they still expect to be fed/watered at the "same time" without regard to our clocks. Or, put differently, my wife and I had tickets to a 12:30 hockey game last Sunday. If we'd forgotten to change our clocks, we'd have shown up an hour late. Presumably the farmers have to adjust their feeding schedule by an hour when the clocks go ahead because if the animals expect to be fed at, say, 7:00, and we then move the clocks ahead an hour, the animals expect to get their food at what to us is 8:00. Presumably it throws off the farmers' routines.

The alternative is to feed the animals at the same "clock time"–that is, if you feed them at 7:00 Standard Time, you also feed them at 7:00 DST. But they would perceive that as being at a different time and presumably it confuses them.

At least that seems like it's how it should work out. Those of you who have pets, do find your dogs expect to be walked or taken outside to crap at "a different time" right after the time change? If so, is that time one hour "later" than you expected? I know the friendly squirrels who visit our deck most days looking for peanuts have not been showing up this week when I'm eating breakfast the way they have all winter, and I assume it's because I'm now there "earlier" than they expect me to be.

The main thing I don't understand about this is why the changeover dates are not symmetric.  In the US, we now keep DST in the fall until, what, about 7 weeks before the solstice?  But we don't switch back in the spring until around 11 weeks after the solstice.  I'd be happy to split the difference, and go about 9 or 10 weeks on each side of the solstice in standard time.  Why is a dark morning OK at the end of October but an equally dark morning is a problem in mid-to-late February?

Most commentary I've seen about changing the end date from October to November centered around a desire to keep it light an hour later because of kids out running around on Halloween, rather than anything to do with dark mornings. I've certainly seen all too many little kids in dark costumes running out into the street without looking first. I always hope no pizza delivery man is speeding down the street when that happens.....

[kphoger]

Farmers don't go by the clock, they go by dawn and dusk.  If a farmer isn't smart enough to know that he should gradually change feeding, milking, whatever schedules at DST changes rather than suddenly altering them a full hour–then he deserves to fail as a farmer.

I mean, heck, what about all those babies who wake up an hour earlier expecting to be fed, yet the mom refuses to get out of bed until the clock reads 4:00?  WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!

[agentsteel53]

Those of you who have pets, do find your dogs expect to be walked or taken outside to crap at "a different time" right after the time change?

yep!  usually our smaller dog starts moving around in her crate a few minutes before she knows it's feeding time, but there has been a morning or two this week where she had no idea that breakfast was served, and she awoke to her door opening!

[1995hoo]

Farmers don't go by the clock, they go by dawn and dusk.  If a farmer isn't smart enough to know that he should gradually change feeding, milking, whatever schedules at DST changes rather than suddenly altering them a full hour–then he deserves to fail as a farmer.

I mean, heck, what about all those babies who wake up an hour earlier expecting to be fed, yet the mom refuses to get out of bed until the clock reads 4:00?  WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!

Well, I'm not a farmer, so that's why I was careful to include the word "presumably" several times and to say "I think" the issue is what I was saying. All I know is that I've seen so many news articles over the years–and not just in the American media, either–in which farmers talk about how their animals don't know anything about the time change that I figure there must be something to the issue. I did some nosing around after posting my prior comment and one article I found says that part of the problem is that the customers with whom the farmers deal aren't necessarily willing to adjust their schedules by an hour if the farmers operate an hour "off schedule" to reflect the time difference. It seems milking cows is one of the biggest issues. If it weren't for having to deliver their farm products at a particular time it'd be easy for the farmers just to continue to operate on Standard Time.

Your point about gradually adjusting does make sense, assuming cows' milking times can be adjusted like that.

This thread is now making me think of that Seinfeld episode where Kramer decided it was silly to wait until April and so he turned his watch ahead immediately.

[agentsteel53]

alas, it seems the farmer's most optimal solution is to operate simultaneously on two different schedules: one for his animals, and one for his human appointments.

"5am (standard) - milk cows"
"8am (daylight) - feed store opens; buy feed"

yeesh! 

[Brandon]

The sun should come up in late morning, giving us more evening hours to do things.  Daylight Savings Time should be year round and how about one more hour of it?

the sun should shine 24 hours a day.  let's keep manipulating the clocks until we can achieve this.

Aren't there some areas around the Arctic Circle where this is already true for at least a few days every year?

yes, but we need it all the time!

That certainly would aid in road photography.

[NE2]

That certainly would aid in road photography.

Unless you're taking a photo facing north.

[J N Winkler]

Somewhat related, are there a lot of signs out there marking time zone boundaries? I have seen them marked at the Hoover Dam, and I see Nevada has a sign on northbound US 93 just after the Hoover Dam Bypass bridge. There weren't any signs I could remember between Bullhead City AZ and Laughlin NV.

Oregon tells you what to do:





Edit:  These signs are re-drawn from Oregon DOT sign drawing S-2740 (from a contract with chopblock caption "Signing installation:  Harney County line - Burns Jct. Unit #2, Steens Highway, Malheur County").

[kphoger]

Is Alanland on Daylight Savings Time?

[vdeane]

It both is and isn't.

[agentsteel53]

It both is and isn't.

no, it just isn't.  Alanland is both on, and not on, Alanland Time, and Alanland Time both does, and does not, change clocks.  the two uncertainties cancel out, yielding a definitive "Alanland is on Daylight Savings Time".

furthermore, noon occurs three times a day, at least four of which are during darkness.

[kphoger]

Is Alanland on Daylight Savings Time?

Nevermind.  I just found an article on wikipedia about it:

§ 5. Võrdluse kasutamine reklaamis
(2) Võrdluse kasutamisel ei tohi reklaam:
1) põhjustada reklaami tellija ja tema konkurendi, samuti reklaami tellija ja tema konkurendi kaubamärkide, nimede, kaupade või teenuste, nende oluliste tunnuste ega müügitingimuste segiajamist või tõenäolist segiajamist;
2) põhineda konkurendi kaubamärgi, nime ja muude eristatavate tunnuste maine ega konkureeriva kauba päritolunimetuse enda huvides ärakasutamisel;
3) päritolunimetusega kauba puhul seostuda kaubaga, millel ei ole sama nimetus;
4) esitada kaupa või teenust Eestis õiguskaitset omava kaubamärgiga tähistatud kauba või teenuse koopia või jäljendina.

So that cleared that up.

[cpzilliacus]

§ 5. Võrdluse kasutamine reklaamis
(2) Võrdluse kasutamisel ei tohi reklaam:
1) põhjustada reklaami tellija ja tema konkurendi, samuti reklaami tellija ja tema konkurendi kaubamärkide, nimede, kaupade või teenuste, nende oluliste tunnuste ega müügitingimuste segiajamist või tõenäolist segiajamist;
2) põhineda konkurendi kaubamärgi, nime ja muude eristatavate tunnuste maine ega konkureeriva kauba päritolunimetuse enda huvides ärakasutamisel;
3) päritolunimetusega kauba puhul seostuda kaubaga, millel ei ole sama nimetus;
4) esitada kaupa või teenust Eestis õiguskaitset omava kaubamärgiga tähistatud kauba või teenuse koopia või jäljendina.

So that cleared that up.

They speak Estonian in Alanland?