Department of Redundancy Department

[roadman]

Does this PA Turnpike exit go to Pittsburgh? https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4384347,-79.7506886,3a,75y,166.89h,85.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx-X3PKOAN_Ms8cdNR6jd2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That would be the Department of Pennsylvania Turnpike Names Its Exits.

This practice has been discussed before - see https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11096.0

[jbnv]

Cross-post from the Sine Salad thread. Unnecessary forward arrows, plus is there any possibility that Scenic Route SH 32 doesn't coincide with plain-old SH 32?

Here's a small helping from Mississippi, featuring an I-55 trailblazer, a SH 32 mainline shield, and a Scenic Route SH 32 shield. This was taken just east of Oakland, Miss., where Scenic 32 turns off of US 51 and joins mainline 32.

Mississippi's scenic routes are few and far between; they're a bit  of a misnomer. Ultimately, they primarily serve to provide access to recreational facilities at Sardis, Enid, and Grenada Dams.

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6250397,-97.2965517,3a,75y,101.48h,85.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBNha-988QWitcK8LM3qG-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This one here with both KS 15 being mentioned in both shield and text.

[hbelkins]

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6250397,-97.2965517,3a,75y,101.48h,85.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBNha-988QWitcK8LM3qG-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

This one here with both KS 15 being mentioned in both shield and text.

I heard the story behind that one when I was there and noticed that sign a couple of years ago, but I forget.

[SignGeek101]

https://goo.gl/maps/DBHVa1mT32A2

I guess having a 'ONE WAY' and a 'NO RIGHT TURN' sign right next to each other is a little redundant. Not a bad thing, just not needed.

[Zeffy]

I always think situations like these are a bit redundant:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3971398,-81.3046661,3a,22y,134.76h,88.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soXWxzmZOhplrUa-8M7uDcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[jakeroot]

I always think situations like these are a bit redundant:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3971398,-81.3046661,3a,22y,134.76h,88.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soXWxzmZOhplrUa-8M7uDcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I can understand their predicament here, but I think that's why the "JCT" tag exists (in that, it should say "JCT [FL-528 shield]"

[lordsutch]

Cross-post from the Sine Salad thread. Unnecessary forward arrows, plus is there any possibility that Scenic Route SH 32 doesn't coincide with plain-old SH 32?

Here's a small helping from Mississippi, featuring an I-55 trailblazer, a SH 32 mainline shield, and a Scenic Route SH 32 shield. This was taken just east of Oakland, Miss., where Scenic 32 turns off of US 51 and joins mainline 32.

Mississippi's scenic routes are few and far between; they're a bit  of a misnomer. Ultimately, they primarily serve to provide access to recreational facilities at Sardis, Enid, and Grenada Dams.

As noted, Scenic 32 and Hwy 32 do diverge, as I believe is the case for all of the Scenic numbered routes in Mississippi. Scenic 304 no longer even touches its "parent" route.

[Mohkfry]

The more the merrier. Right?

https://goo.gl/maps/KEGLJ5UHXa22

Highland, IN has a few intersections with double stop signs like that. Theres an intersection in Griffith that has a quad stop sign install (double stop signs on both sides of the road). I'll have to post a link to that intersection next time I'm on a pc as I'm on a mobile device right now.

[Mohkfry]

Highland, IN has a few intersections with double stop signs like that. Theres an intersection in Griffith that has a quad stop sign install (double stop signs on both sides of the road). I'll have to post a link to that intersection next time I'm on a pc as I'm on a mobile device right now.

Here's the link to the quad stop sign install if anyone wants to see it. I forgot all about this post until now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5372493,-87.4193997,3a,75y,92.93h,73.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LbZ0yIIQACJdh_IwqROpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[jakeroot]

Highland, IN has a few intersections with double stop signs like that. Theres an intersection in Griffith that has a quad stop sign install (double stop signs on both sides of the road). I'll have to post a link to that intersection next time I'm on a pc as I'm on a mobile device right now.

Here's the link to the quad stop sign install if anyone wants to see it. I forgot all about this post until now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5372493,-87.4193997,3a,75y,92.93h,73.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LbZ0yIIQACJdh_IwqROpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That seems a little excessive. If stopping itself is a problem (in that, people don't seem to do it because they don't see the sign), they should put the word STOP on the pavement as well. Perhaps a flashing red beacon overhead.

[roadfro]

Highland, IN has a few intersections with double stop signs like that. Theres an intersection in Griffith that has a quad stop sign install (double stop signs on both sides of the road). I'll have to post a link to that intersection next time I'm on a pc as I'm on a mobile device right now.

Here's the link to the quad stop sign install if anyone wants to see it. I forgot all about this post until now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5372493,-87.4193997,3a,75y,92.93h,73.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LbZ0yIIQACJdh_IwqROpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That seems a little excessive. If stopping itself is a problem (in that, people don't seem to do it because they don't see the sign), they should put the word STOP on the pavement as well. Perhaps a flashing red beacon overhead.

It is excessive. And the MUTCD now prohibited double posting signs on the same post like this. Appropriate emphasis would be to use reflective material on the sign post, conspicuity enhancements like flags, or adding a beacon.

[Brandon]

Highland, IN has a few intersections with double stop signs like that. Theres an intersection in Griffith that has a quad stop sign install (double stop signs on both sides of the road). I'll have to post a link to that intersection next time I'm on a pc as I'm on a mobile device right now.

Here's the link to the quad stop sign install if anyone wants to see it. I forgot all about this post until now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5372493,-87.4193997,3a,75y,92.93h,73.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LbZ0yIIQACJdh_IwqROpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That seems a little excessive. If stopping itself is a problem (in that, people don't seem to do it because they don't see the sign), they should put the word STOP on the pavement as well. Perhaps a flashing red beacon overhead.

A red flashing beacon would be better.  Snow would cover the "STOP" on the pavement, and it would eventually be worn away by snow plows.

[jakeroot]

Highland, IN has a few intersections with double stop signs like that. Theres an intersection in Griffith that has a quad stop sign install (double stop signs on both sides of the road). I'll have to post a link to that intersection next time I'm on a pc as I'm on a mobile device right now.

Here's the link to the quad stop sign install if anyone wants to see it. I forgot all about this post until now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5372493,-87.4193997,3a,75y,92.93h,73.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LbZ0yIIQACJdh_IwqROpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That seems a little excessive. If stopping itself is a problem (in that, people don't seem to do it because they don't see the sign), they should put the word STOP on the pavement as well. Perhaps a flashing red beacon overhead.

A red flashing beacon would be better.  Snow would cover the "STOP" on the pavement, and it would eventually be worn away by snow plows.

That could be said for all pavement markings. That doesn't diminish their effectiveness the other 50% of the year. But I will agree that a flashing beacon would be best nonetheless.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't get this whole 'worn away by snowplow' argument.  It's vastly overused on these boards.  Plows rarely wipe away road markings - otherwise, every single center line, shoulder line, ped crossing, and other commonly used pavement markings would need to be redone every spring, which would be a huge expense to Transportation departments.  The entire northern US would be pavement marking-free by March if these plows took away the markings.  I couldn't imagine how much Canada would spend on paint if this was the case.

Plows don't wipe away pavement markings, especially to the extent depicted throughout these forums.  In fact, a properly leveled plow shouldn't be touching the pavement much at all.  Maybe the final scrapping after a storm, but that's about it.   

[Brandon]

I don't get this whole 'worn away by snowplow' argument.  It's vastly overused on these boards.  Plows rarely wipe away road markings - otherwise, every single center line, shoulder line, ped crossing, and other commonly used pavement markings would need to be redone every spring, which would be a huge expense to Transportation departments.  The entire northern US would be pavement marking-free by March if these plows took away the markings.  I couldn't imagine how much Canada would spend on paint if this was the case.

Plows don't wipe away pavement markings, especially to the extent depicted throughout these forums.  In fact, a properly leveled plow shouldn't be touching the pavement much at all.  Maybe the final scrapping after a storm, but that's about it.   

You need to drive in the salty Midwest more.  I've seen pavement markings chipped and worn away by the plows and the salt after a few winters (not to mention all the potholes caused by the gouging).  Lanes do get remarked every few years just for that reason.  And plows do touch pavement quite a bit.  That's why they have sparks flying when they scrape along the pavement.

[jakeroot]

I don't get this whole 'worn away by snowplow' argument.  It's vastly overused on these boards.  Plows rarely wipe away road markings - otherwise, every single center line, shoulder line, ped crossing, and other commonly used pavement markings would need to be redone every spring, which would be a huge expense to Transportation departments.  The entire northern US would be pavement marking-free by March if these plows took away the markings.  I couldn't imagine how much Canada would spend on paint if this was the case.

Plows don't wipe away pavement markings, especially to the extent depicted throughout these forums.  In fact, a properly leveled plow shouldn't be touching the pavement much at all.  Maybe the final scrapping after a storm, but that's about it.   

You need to drive in the salty Midwest more.  I've seen pavement markings chipped and worn away by the plows and the salt after a few winters (not to mention all the potholes caused by the gouging).  Lanes do get remarked every few years just for that reason.  And plows do touch pavement quite a bit.  That's why they have sparks flying when they scrape along the pavement.

So what's your basis for deciding which pavement markings are more important than others?

[jeffandnicole]

I don't get this whole 'worn away by snowplow' argument.  It's vastly overused on these boards.  Plows rarely wipe away road markings - otherwise, every single center line, shoulder line, ped crossing, and other commonly used pavement markings would need to be redone every spring, which would be a huge expense to Transportation departments.  The entire northern US would be pavement marking-free by March if these plows took away the markings.  I couldn't imagine how much Canada would spend on paint if this was the case.

Plows don't wipe away pavement markings, especially to the extent depicted throughout these forums.  In fact, a properly leveled plow shouldn't be touching the pavement much at all.  Maybe the final scrapping after a storm, but that's about it.   

You need to drive in the salty Midwest more.  I've seen pavement markings chipped and worn away by the plows and the salt after a few winters (not to mention all the potholes caused by the gouging).  Lanes do get remarked every few years just for that reason.  And plows do touch pavement quite a bit.  That's why they have sparks flying when they scrape along the pavement.

That is wayyyyyy different than how some people put it.  Some people act as if the lines have to be painted every year.

Natural fading of the lines require them to be reapplied every 3 - 5 years.  That's true regardless if you're in Minnesota or Miami.

Plows touch pavement all the time.   There's various reasons why...sometimes the endcaps/wraparounds scrape the pavement a bit because of the road's crowning, and the skids, wheels, or whatever helps support the plow scrapes along the road surface as well. 

A well adjusted plow should be about 1/2" - 1" off the ground.  But just the natural bounciness of the truck will cause the plow to scrape along the ground anyway.  And a plow slightly off the ground will help miss those jarring manhole covers that are just a fraction of an inch higher than the pavement.  If you're in a car and a tire hits it, you won't even notice. A plow blade hit it, and you'd think you were hit by a semi.

[cappicard]

Highland, IN has a few intersections with double stop signs like that. Theres an intersection in Griffith that has a quad stop sign install (double stop signs on both sides of the road). I'll have to post a link to that intersection next time I'm on a pc as I'm on a mobile device right now.

Here's the link to the quad stop sign install if anyone wants to see it. I forgot all about this post until now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5372493,-87.4193997,3a,75y,92.93h,73.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LbZ0yIIQACJdh_IwqROpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That's gotta be a record!

[Billy F 1988]

Maybe that particular neighborhood thought that one octagon STOP sign isn't enough to convey the motorists to actually stop hence four of them in that image. Don't 'ya think that's a bit of overkill?

[bzakharin]

This remind me of people who press elevator buttons multiple times to get its attention. I bet it works just as well too unless they charge you per stop sign if you get a ticket. Paying 4 times as much might help. Maybe.

[noelbotevera]

We need more overkill, put more stop signs that keep shrinking along the post.

[kkt]

Maybe that particular neighborhood thought that one octagon STOP sign isn't enough to convey the motorists to actually stop hence four of them in that image. Don't 'ya think that's a bit of overkill?

They clearly need a flashing red light suspended over the intersection.  Or maybe two in each direction.

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.153591,-118.2866334,3a,75y,127h,90.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEmxPCP5bYc-SeO9A0LD7cQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Two signs that GSV probably captured during a sign replacement project, but nonetheless redundant at the time.

[Mohkfry]

Maybe that particular neighborhood thought that one octagon STOP sign isn't enough to convey the motorists to actually stop hence four of them in that image. Don't 'ya think that's a bit of overkill?

They clearly need a flashing red light suspended over the intersection.  Or maybe two in each direction.

It's labeled as a "dangerous interection" via signs at each approach along 45th Ave. there's been 4 stop signs here for as long as I remember. Streetview shows the stops signs there from at least 2009, but they've been there since at least the early 2000's.