US route decommissioning

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking of California, why exactly did it do away with so many of its US routes? US 60, specifically? I was asked this question and wasn't really sure of the answer. Is there a definitive link to which I can refer my friend?

A lot of it is based in the 1964 California highway remembering.  There was a huge mess of state routes and big multiplexes that were elimated at the time.  Basically you had stupid long multiplexes like US 60 and 70 traveling across the desert for hundreds of miles.  Basically that simplification only escalated as Interstates claimed more of the alignments of US Routes. 

Here is some good links that might explain things a bit better:

http://www.cahighways.org/pre-inst.html
http://www.cahighways.org/chronlgy.html

[RoadWarrior56]

Where California is concerned, keep one thing in mind.  Even if there are only 6 US routes left, 3 of them are still very important routes within the state, and of those, the north-south routes of 101 and 395 have very long mileage within the state, despite earlier truncations in SoCA. 

I was in Northern CA last Christmas and the exit numbers were in the high 700's and low 800's.  There is still a lot of US highway mileage in CA.  The only one IMO that should had not been  eliminated would had been US 99 between the Grapevine and Sacramento.  BTW US 50 would be the other important route  IMO.

[Max Rockatansky]

Where California is concerned, keep one thing in mind.  Even if there are only 6 US routes left, 3 of them are still very important routes within the state, and of those, the north-south routes of 101 and 395 have very long mileage within the state, despite earlier truncations in SoCA. 

I was in Northern CA last Christmas and the exit numbers were in the high 700's and low 800's.  There is still a lot of US highway mileage in CA.  The only one IMO that should had not been  eliminated would had been US 99 between the Grapevine and Sacramento.  BTW US 50 would be the other important route  IMO.

US 50 being truncated to first to the original alignment of I-80 in Sacramento was perfect and the current route to I-5 works too.  Basically US 50 being duplicated to San Francisco with US 40 never mad much sense nor did routing it Manteca.  It's actually a fairly useful alternate over the Sierras even in the winter time. 

That would be 808 miles of US 101 and 556 of US 395 to be exact.  Both those truncations made sense...so did US 6 but I heard a recent suggestion that was pretty good.  Basically the premise was that US 6 be extended as a seasonal US Highway over Tioga Pass via CA 120 with a western termination point at I-5 in Manteca...which is ironically close the original alignment of US 48 of all things.  It would be nice to have a couple more east/west routes through California like an extended US 60 via CA 62 and CA 60 to downtown L.A. and something for CA 299.  The only problem 299 has that it is under the 300 mile AASHTO guidance if it's cut back to US 395 and extending it along to the state line with old NV8a doesn't really make a lot of sense given the poor dirt quality.  I'm assuming CA 58 from I-40 to I-5 will SOMEDAY be an Interstate so my preference would be a CA 40 until that happens...which granted might be decades if ever...

[AMLNet49]

Speaking of California, why exactly did it do away with so many of its US routes? US 60, specifically? I was asked this question and wasn't really sure of the answer. Is there a definitive link to which I can refer my friend?

They banned concurrencies which meant that almost every US Highway in the state, which by 1964 mostly were concurrent with interstates, became obsolete. This also meant that freeway portions of US 60 and 99 were orphaned from their segments in other states, so they became
State Route 60 and 99.

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking of California, why exactly did it do away with so many of its US routes? US 60, specifically? I was asked this question and wasn't really sure of the answer. Is there a definitive link to which I can refer my friend?

They banned concurrencies which meant that almost every US Highway in the state, which by 1964 mostly were concurrent with interstates, became obsolete. This also meant that freeway portions of US 60 and 99 were orphaned from their segments in other states, so they became
State Route 60 and 99.

91 has an orphaned freeway segment as well in addition to the first two.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I saw a photo on here that you can still see the "ears" of a US 60 shield under a CA 60 shield on a freeway sign that wasn't greened out properly.

[peterj920]

Each state has its own policy on decommissioning US Highways. Michigan really likes to decommission US highways parralel to interstates. 

Us 10, US 16, US 25, and US 27 are roads that were shortened or decommissioned entirely in Michigan.  If a road parallels an interstate, Michigan prefers to get rid of the US route.



Wisconsin only decommissioned US 16 because Minnesota and South Dakota wanted to.  The entire route in Wisconsin became Wis 16.  Other than US 141 becoming decommissioned south of Green Bay, the US highways in Wisconsin remain unchanged.  Could make the case that US 51 and US 41 could be decommissioned, but they're both concurrent with interstates. 

Minnesota decommissioned US 61 north of Minneapolis and made the stretch north of Duluth MN 61.  It also makes US 52 and US 12 "invisible" for large stretches with one US X follow I-X sign where the concurrency begins.  Could say that Minnesota prefers to "ignore" us routes.

[Max Rockatansky]

Each state has its own policy on decommissioning US Highways. Michigan really likes to decommission US highways parralel to interstates. 

Us 10, US 16, US 25, and US 27 are roads that were shortened or decommissioned entirely in Michigan.  If a road parallels an interstate, Michigan prefers to get rid of the US route.



Wisconsin only decommissioned US 16 because Minnesota and South Dakota wanted to.  The entire route in Wisconsin became Wis 16.  Other than US 141 becoming decommissioned south of Green Bay, the US highways in Wisconsin remain unchanged.  Could make the case that US 51 and US 41 could be decommissioned, but they're both concurrent with interstates. 

Minnesota decommissioned US 61 north of Minneapolis and made the stretch north of Duluth MN 61.  It also makes US 52 and US 12 "invisible" for large stretches with one US X follow I-X sign where the concurrency begins.  Could say that Minnesota prefers to "ignore" us routes.

The weird one was US 27 since it lasted until 2001 despite being almost completely multiplexed with I-69 south of Lansing..  I actually have a bunch of family that lived on one of the few sections of surface US 27 in Lansing when it was decomissioned.  A lot of people back then were really upset that US 127 took over north of St. Johns and thought that US 27 ought to absorb the route to Cincinnati. 

[texaskdog]

Yeah why not make 27 overtake 127?  why increase the length of the 3dus?

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah why not make 27 overtake 127?  why increase the length of the 3dus?

I think a lot of it had to do with the equally strong rumors at he time that US 127 from I-94 north to Graying would become part of the once proposed extension of I-73.  Hell I still think US 10 ought to have moved over to M15 so it could reach US 24 in Waterford Township and take Wodoward Ave back to downtown Detroit.

[theline]

Yeah why not make 27 overtake 127?  why increase the length of the 3dus?

I think a lot of it had to do with the equally strong rumors at he time that US 127 from I-94 north to Graying would become part of the once proposed extension of I-73.  Hell I still think US 10 ought to have moved over to M15 so it could reach US 24 in Waterford Township and take Wodoward Ave back to downtown Detroit.

I think the more likely reason is that INDOT would have objected to losing the US-27 designation for the perfectly good road that connects Ft. Wayne, Richmond, and Cincinnati.

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah why not make 27 overtake 127?  why increase the length of the 3dus?

I think a lot of it had to do with the equally strong rumors at he time that US 127 from I-94 north to Graying would become part of the once proposed extension of I-73.  Hell I still think US 10 ought to have moved over to M15 so it could reach US 24 in Waterford Township and take Wodoward Ave back to downtown Detroit.

Swap it with US 127, seems like a simple fix to me.  Wouldn't a two digit US Route make more sense heading through a large freeway artery heading to a state capital like Lansing make more sense while the three digit went to Fort Wayne? 

I think the more likely reason is that INDOT would have objected to losing the US-27 designation for the perfectly good road that connects Ft. Wayne, Richmond, and Cincinnati.

[theline]

Yeah why not make 27 overtake 127?  why increase the length of the 3dus?

I think a lot of it had to do with the equally strong rumors at he time that US 127 from I-94 north to Graying would become part of the once proposed extension of I-73.  Hell I still think US 10 ought to have moved over to M15 so it could reach US 24 in Waterford Township and take Wodoward Ave back to downtown Detroit.

I think the more likely reason is that INDOT would have objected to losing the US-27 designation for the perfectly good road that connects Ft. Wayne, Richmond, and Cincinnati.

Swap it with US 127, seems like a simple fix to me.  Wouldn't a two digit US Route make more sense heading through a large freeway artery heading to a state capital like Lansing make more sense while the three digit went to Fort Wayne? 

Max, somehow your quote ended up getting attributed to me in your posting. I've pulled it out and put it where it belongs in the quote here.

My point was about the locations of the two highways in Indiana and Ohio. Both are two lane roads over most of their paths in those states, though there are some four-lane sections of 27 in the Ft. Wayne area and of both roads in the Cincinnati area. I apparently very poorly expressed my opinion that 27 and 127 would not be swapped in those states, because 27 serves as a good connection between Ft. Wayne, Cincinnati, and points between.

If you want to swap 27 and 127 in Michigan, how does 27 get back to Ft. Wayne to connect with the FW-Cincinnati section? I don't think Indiana will go for renumbering that road, so you've got to make them connect. If they are discontinuous, they at least need to line up.

[kkt]

As state routes, Caltrans can relocate them or discontinue them whenever they want, without waiting for permission.

Caltrans claimed the white on green shields are more visible in marginal conditions than the black on white.

They felt strongly that long concurrencies were more confusing than helpful and not that many people took them the whole route.  So they eliminated most of them.

[Max Rockatansky]

As state routes, Caltrans can relocate them or discontinue them whenever they want, without waiting for permission.

Caltrans claimed the white on green shields are more visible in marginal conditions than the black on white.

They felt strongly that long concurrencies were more confusing than helpful and not that many people took them the whole route.  So they eliminated most of them.

That statement would make a lot more sense if there was any logic to the route numbers in California.  There so many tiny little routes less than 5 miles that could be just outright dropped or have hidden designations...at least more than are already.  A state like California ought to enact a grid like Florida does if they want to claim the state route markers make more sense for navigation. I think even for the most casual driver the U.S. Route shield is a lot more recognizable by a large margin over any state highway shield.  Plus the U.S. Route system was planned as a grid from the beginning.  If color is a problem why not just make the U.S. Route shields red/white/blue cutouts rather than the standard white?

[kkt]

Are states allowed to post colored variations on the U.S. route shield?  California, of course, does use a cutout U.S. route shield, but still white on black.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Are states allowed to post colored variations on the U.S. route shield?  California, of course, does use a cutout U.S. route shield, but still white on black.

I don't think so. Florida was famous for having colored US shields, and they were eventually told to stop using them.

[Max Rockatansky]

Are states allowed to post colored variations on the U.S. route shield?  California, of course, does use a cutout U.S. route shield, but still white on black.

I don't think so. Florida was famous for having colored US shields, and they were eventually told to stop using them.

Wasn't there a funding supplement they were going to stop getting in Florida if they didn't switch to the MUTCD compliant black and white US Route signs?  There are still a handful out in the field here and there.