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Research reveals slow left lane drivers are spiking accident rates

Started by bahnburner, May 17, 2016, 02:32:33 AM

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jwolfer

If I am in the left lane and a faster car comes up behind i will move over.. sometimes I am not given a chance. Even with blinker on

I have noticed many of the left lane hogs are on the phone/texting or elderly drivers. Occasionally is the do-gooder environmentalist or safety crusader.

But a lot of them are just unaware of their offense or surroundings


tradephoric

A pet peeve of mine is when I'm driving in the left lane and keeping a safe 3 second following distance to the vehicle infront of me.  Keeping a safe following distance becomes an open invitation for people to drive around you and fill the gap because they feel like you should be 10 feet off the bumper of the vehicle infront of you.  Rule of thumb: if a brake check causes you to lose control and crash you are following too close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSE3fkeHAmo

Duke87

Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 18, 2016, 08:14:51 AM
So what is the motive for the undesirable behavior of driving slow in the left lane, and how do you remove that motive?

In my experience it is a combination of laziness and obliviousness. Someone will get in the left lane to pass a couple trucks or whatever, and then just start daydreaming and cruising in the left lane rather than moving back right, neither noticing nor caring that people are passing them on the right.

In other words, hogging the left lane is not typically something which is done deliberately for any sort of selfish gain. It is something which is done unintentionally due to a driver's lack of situational awareness.

This is therefore something that perhaps a target enforcement campaign could be good medicine for. If a driver remembers that time they got a ticket for driving too slowly in the left lane, maybe they'll pay more attention next time.

If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Sykotyk

Quote from: Duke87 on May 19, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 18, 2016, 08:14:51 AM
So what is the motive for the undesirable behavior of driving slow in the left lane, and how do you remove that motive?

In my experience it is a combination of laziness and obliviousness. Someone will get in the left lane to pass a couple trucks or whatever, and then just start daydreaming and cruising in the left lane rather than moving back right, neither noticing nor caring that people are passing them on the right.

In other words, hogging the left lane is not typically something which is done deliberately for any sort of selfish gain. It is something which is done unintentionally due to a driver's lack of situational awareness.

This is therefore something that perhaps a target enforcement campaign could be good medicine for. If a driver remembers that time they got a ticket for driving too slowly in the left lane, maybe they'll pay more attention next time.



In all my years driving, less than a handful of times has it been some deliberately slow in the left lane. One of the worst offenders was someone hellbent on keeping everyone behind them. They'd speed up until there was another car beside them on the right. Then slow to match their speed. They did this for miles and miles. Had a huge line of cars. Maybe some power-hungry cog at some factory wanted to feel important.

But, more often than not, it's obliviousness or just not caring. They get in the left lane to pass someone and just stay there. Even if it's clear other traffic has come up on them. They're not moving. A lot of cell-phone yakkers or texters, as well. I guess they think in the left lane they don't have to deal with on and off ramp traffic to mess with their clear view down the road.

RobbieL2415

Quote from: Duke87 on May 19, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 18, 2016, 08:14:51 AM
So what is the motive for the undesirable behavior of driving slow in the left lane, and how do you remove that motive?

In my experience it is a combination of laziness and obliviousness. Someone will get in the left lane to pass a couple trucks or whatever, and then just start daydreaming and cruising in the left lane rather than moving back right, neither noticing nor caring that people are passing them on the right.

In other words, hogging the left lane is not typically something which is done deliberately for any sort of selfish gain. It is something which is done unintentionally due to a driver's lack of situational awareness.

This is therefore something that perhaps a target enforcement campaign could be good medicine for. If a driver remembers that time they got a ticket for driving too slowly in the left lane, maybe they'll pay more attention next time.
I think you also need to remember that a majority of motorists are not commercial drivers.  They aren't obligated to hold themselves to high standards.  Their job isn't on the line if they don't follow all traffic regulations to a "T". The most that is at stake for them is a $150-200 ticket that they will either pay without contest or have reduced in court.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Duke87 on May 19, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
This is therefore something that perhaps a target enforcement campaign could be good medicine for. If a driver remembers that time they got a ticket for driving too slowly in the left lane, maybe they'll pay more attention next time.

Millions of drivers who have been issued 2 or more speeding tickets will probably say otherwise.

Zeffy

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on May 20, 2016, 02:08:31 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on May 19, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 18, 2016, 08:14:51 AM
So what is the motive for the undesirable behavior of driving slow in the left lane, and how do you remove that motive?

In my experience it is a combination of laziness and obliviousness. Someone will get in the left lane to pass a couple trucks or whatever, and then just start daydreaming and cruising in the left lane rather than moving back right, neither noticing nor caring that people are passing them on the right.

In other words, hogging the left lane is not typically something which is done deliberately for any sort of selfish gain. It is something which is done unintentionally due to a driver's lack of situational awareness.

This is therefore something that perhaps a target enforcement campaign could be good medicine for. If a driver remembers that time they got a ticket for driving too slowly in the left lane, maybe they'll pay more attention next time.
I think you also need to remember that a majority of motorists are not commercial drivers.  They aren't obligated to hold themselves to high standards.  Their job isn't on the line if they don't follow all traffic regulations to a "T". The most that is at stake for them is a $150-200 ticket that they will either pay without contest or have reduced in court.

Most commercial drivers deliberately break traffic laws too, and I'm pretty sure most of them still have their jobs even after doing it. Like when semis are in the left lane, when they clearly shouldn't be as state law prohibits it (and yes they are over the weight limit).
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

orulz

I can't count the number of times I have been tailgated in the left lane while driving at least 10 over the limit and passing another car, or when in congested traffic and maintaining a safe 2-3 second following distance behind the car in front of me. If you are a fast driver (meaning you want to drive more than ten over) and think I am a "impeding traffic" and "blocking the left lane" you can just sit and wait, thanks very much.

Personally, people "hogging" the left lane and going at least the speed limit and possibly a few over cause me zero frustration and is not that common anyway. It somehow leads me to question whether the people who complain about this have a regional problem where it is more common than where I live,  or are just speed demons who think they are entitled to 15 or 20 over and that traffic should part before them like the Red Sea before Moses.

LGL33L


kalvado

Quote from: orulz on May 31, 2016, 03:30:14 PM

Personally, people "hogging" the left lane and going at least the speed limit and possibly a few over cause me zero frustration and is not that common anyway. It somehow leads me to question whether the people who complain about this have a regional problem where it is more common than where I live,  or are just speed demons who think they are entitled to 15 or 20 over and that traffic should part before them like the Red Sea before Moses.
You know, there are places where 30 MPH over is still too slow...

kkt

Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 03:51:26 PM
You know, there are places where 30 MPH over is still too slow...

Too slow for what, getting your license revoked if you're caught?

jakeroot

Quote from: kkt on May 31, 2016, 03:54:38 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 03:51:26 PM
You know, there are places where 30 MPH over is still too slow...

Too slow for what, getting your license revoked if you're caught?

I seem to recall travelling roughly 150 to 160 km/h along the QE2 between Edmonton and Calgary, ostensibly a 110 zone. I'm pretty sure they would have taken my car if I was caught, but they can't pull everyone over! I would never drive that fast on my own accord, but it felt necessary because that was the speed of the left lane; the right lane was full of caravans and trucks.

kalvado

Quote from: kkt on May 31, 2016, 03:54:38 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 03:51:26 PM
You know, there are places where 30 MPH over is still too slow...

Too slow for what, getting your license revoked if you're caught?
No, just to feel bad about being too slow - everyone else seem to go at least 40 over. Yes, I was the slowest car on the road going just 95 MPH... I had out of state license plates, so I didn't feel awfully bad, though.

kphoger

Not keeping right reduces througput.

Refer to this simple illustration to see how "forcing" the faster driver to pass you on the right reduces throughput.  Compare how quickly the red car can clear the field of view, then compound that delay for every driver affected.



Not to get all Yoda or anything, but...
reducing throughput leads to added congestion,
  added congestion leads to road rage,
   road rage leads to unsafe maneuvers,
    unsafe maneuvers lead to accidents.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kalvado

Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2016, 05:21:11 PM
Not keeping right reduces througput.

Refer to this simple illustration to see how "forcing" the faster driver to pass you on the right reduces throughput.  Compare how quickly the red car can clear the field of view, then compound that delay for every driver affected.



Not to get all Yoda or anything, but...
reducing throughput leads to added congestion,
  added congestion leads to road rage,
   road rage leads to unsafe maneuvers,
    unsafe maneuvers lead to accidents.

Looks like another certified traffic engineer with bogus pics. You realize that red car goes 3x faster than the blue one? Actually, I don't think there is any situation when 3x speed difference may be legitimate unless blue car is broken. Most likely red driver is speeding beyond any reason. No, we don't need to increase throughput at that cost.
Neither we need drivers like green one on the right pic, cutting blue guy with less than 1/4 second interval. 
Don't behave like you're running for political office, lie within the reason! 

slorydn1

Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 18, 2016, 10:06:16 AM
This problem is at its worst on 4 lane freeways and expressway-type roads that are severly congested.  One of the worst is I-95 across North Carolina, where "nestoring" in the left lane causes long queues of traffic, yet there is no enforcement.


That would be because it's not illegal to camp in the left lane here, unfortunately.

Please Note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of any governmental agency, non-governmental agency, quasi-governmental agency or wanna be governmental agency

Counties: Counties Visited

vdeane

Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2016, 05:21:11 PM
Not keeping right reduces througput.

Refer to this simple illustration to see how "forcing" the faster driver to pass you on the right reduces throughput.  Compare how quickly the red car can clear the field of view, then compound that delay for every driver affected.



Not to get all Yoda or anything, but...
reducing throughput leads to added congestion,
  added congestion leads to road rage,
   road rage leads to unsafe maneuvers,
    unsafe maneuvers lead to accidents.

Looks like another certified traffic engineer with bogus pics. You realize that red car goes 3x faster than the blue one? Actually, I don't think there is any situation when 3x speed difference may be legitimate unless blue car is broken. Most likely red driver is speeding beyond any reason. No, we don't need to increase throughput at that cost.
Neither we need drivers like green one on the right pic, cutting blue guy with less than 1/4 second interval. 
Don't behave like you're running for political office, lie within the reason! 
Some trucks, occasionally drivers who just don't care; in any case, the speed differential being lower just compounds the problem by increasing the time to pass.  You sound like one of those "speed kills" people, when in fact speed in and of itself has never harmed anyone.  Let's say someone was driving 10 over the limit, hit a tree, and died.  Did they die because they were speeding?  No, they died because they hit a tree!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kalvado

Quote from: vdeane on May 31, 2016, 09:06:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 05:33:52 PM

Looks like another certified traffic engineer with bogus pics. You realize that red car goes 3x faster than the blue one? Actually, I don't think there is any situation when 3x speed difference may be legitimate unless blue car is broken. Most likely red driver is speeding beyond any reason. No, we don't need to increase throughput at that cost.
Neither we need drivers like green one on the right pic, cutting blue guy with less than 1/4 second interval. 
Don't behave like you're running for political office, lie within the reason! 
Some trucks, occasionally drivers who just don't care; in any case, the speed differential being lower just compounds the problem by increasing the time to pass.  You sound like one of those "speed kills" people, when in fact speed in and of itself has never harmed anyone.  Let's say someone was driving 10 over the limit, hit a tree, and died.  Did they die because they were speeding?  No, they died because they hit a tree!
Which trucks? Are there any trucks going below 30 MPH on a highway - other than maintenance vehicles?
Speed may or may not be a factor in any particular accident. It is always easy to blame for those who don't want to dig deeper.
Exactly same situation as on the picture: it is easy to blame left lane camping, but what I actually see in these images is an overly aggressive driver (or two) causing close calls by tailgating and cutting short. Two wrongs don't make one right.... Even if someone just tries to prove their point!

PS. Did you notice that on right, purportedly correct image, red car does not go to the right lane at "required" distance of 1/2 car length? Probably an indication of something as well.

Duke87

Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 05:33:52 PM
Looks like another certified traffic engineer with bogus pics. You realize that red car goes 3x faster than the blue one? Actually, I don't think there is any situation when 3x speed difference may be legitimate unless blue car is broken. Most likely red driver is speeding beyond any reason. No, we don't need to increase throughput at that cost.
Neither we need drivers like green one on the right pic, cutting blue guy with less than 1/4 second interval. 
Don't behave like you're running for political office, lie within the reason!

The GIF is designed to provide a basic visual demonstration of the effects of camping in the left lane, not to provide a perfect to scale movie of the situation.

The differences in speed may be exaggerated, and the green car may be shown merging what appears to be very closely in front of the blue car, but this doesn't change the underlying principle. Make a GIF with these details corrected and the red car would still move out of the frame sooner in the scenario where the green car gets in the right lane.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

vdeane

Talk about failing to see the forest for the trees...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kalvado

Quote from: vdeane on May 31, 2016, 09:40:16 PM
Talk about failing to see the forest for the trees...
More like the devil is always in the details  :sombrero:

Quote from: Duke87 on May 31, 2016, 09:27:42 PM
The GIF is designed to provide a basic visual demonstration of the effects of camping in the left lane, not to provide a perfect to scale movie of the situation.
GIF is designed to illustrate some point - which may or may not be true. Even the phrase "red car gone faster means higher throughput" may be wrong (it is wrong, actually)

RobbieL2415

Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: orulz on May 31, 2016, 03:30:14 PM

Personally, people "hogging" the left lane and going at least the speed limit and possibly a few over cause me zero frustration and is not that common anyway. It somehow leads me to question whether the people who complain about this have a regional problem where it is more common than where I live,  or are just speed demons who think they are entitled to 15 or 20 over and that traffic should part before them like the Red Sea before Moses.
You know, there are places where 30 MPH over is still too slow...
My feeble-minded theory for habitual, non-"i'm late and need to hurry to get on time" speeders is that their own experience on the road has conditioned them to keep looking straight ahead at all times and not once glance down at the speedometer.  I often think everyone has their own "feeling" for specific speed limits and that they often don't correlate to the correct numerical value.  When you've been driving 30, 40+ years you tend to develop habits (good and bad) and maybe one of them is just never actually looking at how fast you're going.

Thing 342

Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 10:07:03 PM
GIF is designed to illustrate some point - which may or may not be true. Even the phrase "red car gone faster means higher throughput" may be wrong (it is wrong, actually)
Do you have any evidence to support this claim? In the GIF, the red car is stuck behind the green car going speed 'G', then speeds up to speed 'R' when it clears. On the left side of the image, the red car has to stay at speed G until the green car pulls at least 2.5 car lengths ahead of the blue car, change lanes, then speed up to R. On the right, the green car must only pull 1.25 car lengths in front of the blue car before it changes lanes, allowing the red car to speed up to R. On the right, the red car spends a longer time at a higher speed, increasing the average speed of the cars on the highway.

kalvado

Quote from: Thing 342 on May 31, 2016, 11:06:53 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 31, 2016, 10:07:03 PM
GIF is designed to illustrate some point - which may or may not be true. Even the phrase "red car gone faster means higher throughput" may be wrong (it is wrong, actually)
Do you have any evidence to support this claim? In the GIF, the red car is stuck behind the green car going speed 'G', then speeds up to speed 'R' when it clears. On the left side of the image, the red car has to stay at speed G until the green car pulls at least 2.5 car lengths ahead of the blue car, change lanes, then speed up to R. On the right, the green car must only pull 1.25 car lengths in front of the blue car before it changes lanes, allowing the red car to speed up to R. On the right, the red car spends a longer time at a higher speed, increasing the average speed of the cars on the highway.

And it is well known that throughput and speed have very indirect, mostly inverse correlation. This is a type of correlation you would expect:


Throughput, as in vehicles per hour (per lane) is driven not by speed, but by intervals between cars - textbook 2 second interval tend to increase  at higher speed, and 1800 vph - that means 1 car every 2 second - is about peak value for non-congested traffic. It corresponds to "same speed in a lane" scenario, no high speed passing.
If you think about it, in non-congested driving at highway speed car travels its length in about 0.15 s, and 90% of the road is 2 second intervals.

kphoger

Maybe this is my non-engineer mind spinning its wheels here, but...

Are you saying that the same number of vehicles taking longer to clear a given segment of roadway does NOT lead to a decrease in throughout? OK, that may be true without my understanding how it works, and I'm good with that. But the scenario still leads to road rage.

And yes, there are places where trucks travel at less than three times the speed as passenger cars. I've been on more than one highway in Mexico where overloaded double-trailer trucks were chugging uphill at 15 to 20 mph while shiny new SUVs and sports cars were flying by at 60 to 90 mph. Sometimes one of those trucks (say, a 30-mph one) would pass another in the left lane; leave him to dawdle in the left lane after passing, and see how it affects traffic. This may seem like an extreme example, but it's actually fairly common there wherever there are mountains. The differential may be less here in the States, but the point remains.

Furthermore, tailgating and cutting short are encouraged by left lane dawdling. An irate red car driver is more likely to tailgate a dawdling green car driver and/or cut off a slower blue car driver than one who is not irate. You may think that's stinky, but the fact is it's true.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kalvado

Quote from: kphoger on June 01, 2016, 06:35:00 PM
Maybe this is my non-engineer mind spinning its wheels here, but...

Are you saying that the same number of vehicles taking longer to clear a given segment of roadway does NOT lead to a decrease in throughout? OK, that may be true without my understanding how it works, and I'm good with that. But the scenario still leads to road rage.
Road rage for slalom driver? Do they have any other operating mode?
Quote from: kphoger on June 01, 2016, 06:35:00 PM
And yes, there are places where trucks travel at less than three times the speed as passenger cars. I've been on more than one highway in Mexico where overloaded double-trailer trucks were chugging uphill at 15 to 20 mph while shiny new SUVs and sports cars were flying by at 60 to 90 mph. Sometimes one of those trucks (say, a 30-mph one) would pass another in the left lane; leave him to dawdle in the left lane after passing, and see how it affects traffic. This may seem like an extreme example, but it's actually fairly common there wherever there are mountains. The differential may be less here in the States, but the point remains.
Point is that this is an extreme situation, I assume. And if you think about it, there may be some two-lane roads in those mountains..
More numerically, it is pretty common to assume that top 15% of drivers in free-flowing traffic are speeding and they present a hazard. Something similar can be said about bottom 5-10%...
Quote from: kphoger on June 01, 2016, 06:35:00 PM
Furthermore, tailgating and cutting short are encouraged by left lane dawdling. An irate red car driver is more likely to tailgate a dawdling green car driver and/or cut off a slower blue car driver than one who is not irate. You may think that's stinky, but the fact is it's true.
Those are not encouraged by left lane hogging, those are a typical pattern for aggressive superspeeders. And no, I don't care if they cover a mile in 45 or 42 seconds at 55 MPH limit.

One thing in "keep right no matter what" drivers which irritate me most (talk about road rage) is cutting off for no good reason. Which is apparently an SOP from the perspective of said annimation. If you change lane in front of me, give me 2 second interval.

Edited for proper quote formating