Eisenhower Expressway was I-90 in '77. Why did it change?

[Stratuscaster]

The natural split is the river or SanShip Canal.

The northern-most mention of "South Side" on Google Maps is south of 47th St. But some consider Bridgeport to also be part of the south side.

So one could use I-55/Stevenson as the split.

"As for a way to relieve traffic on the Ike and Kennedy, we could always double deck them like the I-880 freeway in Oakland but that would be very expensive."

No, you could not ALWAYS. And yes, THAT would be VERY expensive. The way to "fix" something is to relieve pressure on it, then repair it. Double-decking anything would be like trying to repair a nuclear reactor while at full power, or fixing your faucet with the water on....its MUCH more difficult.

But somehow double-decking a highway over a railroad ROW isn't just as difficult or expensive?

"That's still more reasonable than your "hypo" route."

No it isnt. Certainly thats the mantra around here. Obviously me and Pythagoras disagree. Ill continue to push for a study that shows the map does not lie and MAYBE its not that unreasonable after all. Shorten I-90 ten miles and give its own road? TWO complete tollways through Chicago and Cookco? A new rail BYPASS...THROUGH the city?  $4B financed by multiple agencies and RRs (PPP).I think we are worthy.  http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co Do this and maybe the Ike and Kennedy would be fine, the Strangler unstrangled.

I've still yet to figure out how most of your points actually benefit the travelling public at large.

Giving I-90 "it's own road" will do what, exactly, to unclog the Kennedy or the Ike? It would only directly service those moving towards Indiana via the Skyway or those going from the Skyway to the current I-290/I-294/I-88 area. I do not see that it would take enough traffic off the Ike or the Kennedy to warrant the costs.

Having "two complete tollways" in and of itself doesn't mean much either in the realm of taking traffic off the Ike and Kennedy.

Seems to me the only way to unstrangle the Strangler is to figure out how to get that dropped lane back in that section of the Ike.

By moving I-90 to the Hypo and then (presumably) onto the Ike Extension and up to Schaumburg now means that there is no longer a 2di that takes one to O'Hare. Those folks will still go up and over on the Ryan/Kennedy, or over & up on the Hypo/Ike/Tri-State. Or if they follow I-90 would end up well west of ORD and have to backtrack back east.

[hobsini2]

Yes it can be double decked DZ. Just because YOU don't agree with that idea doesn't make it as much a possibility as your hypo route that would take up tons of new ROW. This hypo idea you have would cost more on that alone.

Imagine the relief the Ike would get from having not just another highway with 6 lanes east and 6 lanes west if it was double decked.

[dzlsabe]

The natural split is the river or SanShip Canal.

The northern-most mention of "South Side" on Google Maps is south of 47th St. But some consider Bridgeport to also be part of the south side.

"So one could use I-55/Stevenson as the split." That is the road a stones throw away.

"As for a way to relieve traffic on the Ike and Kennedy, we could always double deck them like the I-880 freeway in Oakland but that would be very expensive."

No, you could not ALWAYS. And yes, THAT would be VERY expensive. The way to "fix" something is to relieve pressure on it, then repair it. Double-decking anything would be like trying to repair a nuclear reactor while at full power, or fixing your faucet with the water on....its MUCH more difficult.

"But somehow double-decking a highway over a railroad ROW isn't just as difficult or expensive?"

Its a clean sheet. Im not sure about double-decking the Hypo. Maybe four lanes would suffice from the Strangler to Cicero, for sure six to the Skyway? Grade-separate the rails and build an Xway over that? Yes difficult and expensive. $4B easy. But we would not be doing that over a critical Ike.

"That's still more reasonable than your "hypo" route."

No it isnt. Certainly thats the mantra around here. Obviously me and Pythagoras disagree. Ill continue to push for a study that shows the map does not lie and MAYBE its not that unreasonable after all. Shorten I-90 ten miles and give its own road? TWO complete tollways through Chicago and Cookco? A new rail BYPASS...THROUGH the city?  $4B financed by multiple agencies and RRs (PPP).I think we are worthy.  http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co Do this and maybe the Ike and Kennedy would be fine, the Strangler unstrangled.

"I've still yet to figure out how most of your points actually benefit the travelling public at large."

Best answer is it gives options we dont have right now. For travelers sure. If even 20% got off the Ike and Ryan/Kennedy, that would be good, right? And for the areas from the Strangler to Gary even. All the sudden those adjacent zip codes look a lot better.

"Giving I-90 "it's own road" will do what, exactly, to unclog the Kennedy or the Ike? It would only directly service those moving towards Indiana via the Skyway or those going from the Skyway to the current I-290/I-294/I-88 area. I do not see that it would take enough traffic off the Ike or the Kennedy to warrant the costs."

This is a twenty year scheme. Skyway to Strangler area? Its hard to count the rail junctions, railyards, intermodals, warehouses, truck terminals, oh and that airport nearby. Lets plan on the MSA getting through this 1% growth thing weve got goin. Bulls-eye straight down the middle. The Kennedy/Ryan and the Tri-state get fifteen miles apart. And the Ike and Strangler aint cuttin it and need help. 

Having "two complete tollways" in and of itself doesn't mean much either in the realm of taking traffic off the Ike and Kennedy."

No doubt a lot more study is required to see how MUCH.

"Seems to me the only way to unstrangle the Strangler is to figure out how to get that dropped lane back in that section of the Ike."

"Dropped lane"? How bout dropped road. Making Strangler 4 into 2 would be a big improvement.

By moving I-90 to the Hypo and then (presumably) onto the Ike Extension and up to Schaumburg now means that there is no longer a 2di that takes one to O'Hare. Those folks will still go up and over on the Ryan/Kennedy, or over & up on the Hypo/Ike/Tri-State. Or if they follow I-90 would end up well west of ORD and have to backtrack back east.

No 2DI? OK. Ill make one. Call the Kennedy from the Kenedens split to Schaumburg I-92. That would be the easiest part of the project. "Hypo/Ike/Tri-state"? It would just be Hypo/Tri-state to Ohare someday. No destruction, no backtracking.

[hobsini2]

Anyone else lost on wtf DZ is saying? *throws hands up like I just don't care*

[Brandon]

Anyone else lost on wtf DZ is saying? *throws hands up like I just don't care*

I gave up quite some time ago.  He's nuts as far as I'm concerned.

[noelbotevera]

Anyone else lost on wtf DZ is saying? *throws hands up like I just don't care*

I gave up quite some time ago.  He's nuts as far as I'm concerned.

[ILRoad55]

^lol

I don't even see a reason to create this hypo. "No destruction." Uh yeah, you can't just build an expressway without clearing land and having to reconfigure things that could get in the way. He's stated it won't cause noise pollution, sure it will, it's cutting right through people's backyards. It doesn't matter if it runs on a train line.

Create an I-92? What the... seriously? Honestly if he wants an actual answer to I-90. It's because they wanted to make this interstate that goes coast to coast to be the an easy route to take, this means they wanted to give it the least amount of switching highways, taking ramps and shit. These major interstates are meant to be direct, not winding and jumping highway to highway. I know he will come back at me with something and then make a small note of his Hypo.

DZ, can you send us an in-depth map plan with ramps, interchanges, lanes, and not just a line that says the train lines?

[hobsini2]

To the OP
https://youtu.be/ADF6gX0KgLU

[dzlsabe]

^lol

I don't even see a reason to create this hypo. "No destruction." Uh yeah, you can't just build an expressway without clearing land and having to reconfigure things that could get in the way. He's stated it won't cause noise pollution, sure it will, it's cutting right through people's backyards. It doesn't matter if it runs on a train line.

Create an I-92? What the... seriously? Honestly if he wants an actual answer to I-90. It's because they wanted to make this interstate that goes coast to coast to be the an easy route to take, this means they wanted to give it the least amount of switching highways, taking ramps and shit. These major interstates are meant to be direct, not winding and jumping highway to highway. I know he will come back at me with something and then make a small note of his Hypo.

DZ, can you send us an in-depth map plan with ramps, interchanges, lanes, and not just a line that says the train lines?

Will this do?  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16790.0

Dont believe I ever stated "will not cause noise pollution". It will move some. It will reduce even more because traffic (vehicle and rail) might actually be moving at a consistent clip instead of stop and go. CMAQ, its a thing.

By "no destruction" I mean of the super-critical IKE. Double-decking is not being "carried forward" on the EIS...and even if IDOT decides to do "something" to the IKE, I just dont see it being enough. The Strangler will still be a mess, put under even more pressure with the added lanes around EOE and I-490.

http://eisenhowerexpressway.com/pdfs/i290%20alternatives%20evaluation%20summary2013apr02.pdf

No mention of "other options" for that matter. See "concept categories" pg 25,6 above. Everything is "deferred to subsequent rounds".

"Honestly if he wants an actual answer to I-90. It's because they wanted to make this interstate that goes coast to coast to be the an easy route to take, this means they wanted to give it the least amount of switching highways, taking ramps and shit. These major interstates are meant to be direct, not winding and jumping highway to highway."

I-90 at present "jumps" from the Skyway to the Ryan freeway where it is conjoined with I-94 (only one other urban example of this is Atlanta, but 75 & 85 are like 16 lanes for just a few miles), along the Kennedy for fourteen miles, then another six miles of HELL west of the Kenedens split and finally to the NW Adams Tollway.

I-90 in Hypo future would continue NW from the Skyway, jump the Strangler connecting to the IKE extension and then to the NW Tollway. Would be a six~ten mile shorter option. Would complete the tollway that runs from Boston to Beloit. It dosent get any more DIRECT.

   http://imgur.com/E6RD2Co

[dzlsabe]

Fine. You go to Congress and lobby to get the gas tax raised. See what kind of reception you get.

Maybe another possibility is to repatriate the TRILLIONS offshore (My finance buddy thinks it may be $40T). Tax as is fair. And maybe make buying treasuries part of the solution?

[Stratuscaster]

The Strangler will still be a mess, put under even more pressure with the added lanes around EOE and I-490.

What and where exactly do you consider "The Strangler" to be?

[dzlsabe]

The Strangler will still be a mess, put under even more pressure with the added lanes around EOE and I-490.

What and where exactly do you consider "The Strangler" to be?

Here? https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8741112,-87.91329,2519m/data=!3m1!1e3

[SEWIGuy]

The Ryan and Kennedy are clogged mostly due to local traffic.  Most through traffic from Indiana to the Northwest Tollway takes the Tri-State, and perhaps the Ike, up to the Schaumburg area.  Relocated I-90 to this hypotenuse isn't going to relieve traffic on the Kennedy.  It is going to provide relief to the southern portion of the Tri-State, which usually isn't very busy anyway.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

yawn

[Super Mateo]

The Strangler will still be a mess, put under even more pressure with the added lanes around EOE and I-490.

What and where exactly do you consider "The Strangler" to be?

The Strangler is the nickname for the interchange at the eastern terminus of I-88 in Hillside.  It's called that because eastbound I-88 and the on ramps from NB I-294 and Roosevelt all merge together, then it all merges down to a single lane before joining I-290.  Traffic gets "strangled."

[Joe The Dragon]

The Strangler will still be a mess, put under even more pressure with the added lanes around EOE and I-490.

What and where exactly do you consider "The Strangler" to be?

The Strangler is the nickname for the interchange at the eastern terminus of I-88 in Hillside.  It's called that because eastbound I-88 and the on ramps from NB I-294 and Roosevelt all merge together, then it all merges down to a single lane before joining I-290.  Traffic gets "strangled."

But new road work moved the strangled point to just past Mannheim road. But that area has other issues like the ramps to / from I-290 to I-294. Exit 15A can stack traffic up all the to north or past it and it does not help the people dive bomb in right at the end.

That hole area needs more C/D lanes and at least removing at least 1 loop ramp.

[dzlsabe]

The Ryan and Kennedy are clogged mostly due to local traffic.  Most through traffic from Indiana to the Northwest Tollway takes the Tri-State, and perhaps the Ike, up to the Schaumburg area.  Relocated I-90 to this hypotenuse isn't going to relieve traffic on the Kennedy.  It is going to provide relief to the southern portion of the Tri-State, which usually isn't very busy anyway.

Mostly, most? It needs to be quantified. What is it 70%? 80%? 90% "local traffic"? That leaves quite a bit as the remainder thats not local. "Relocated I-90 ....not going to relieve Kennedy". Or the IKE? We dont know that for sure. All I know is the freeways and the Strangler are at their limits most days, with more headed, there is NO room for additional lanes or the disruption that would cause, no room for future growth...and the tollway that goes from Boston to Beloit has a missing gap that can be seen from space. Just dont see any easy solutions and if we ever want to see this MSA get out of it less than 1% growth "funk", what else?

[hotdogPi]

The Ryan and Kennedy are clogged mostly due to local traffic.  Most through traffic from Indiana to the Northwest Tollway takes the Tri-State, and perhaps the Ike, up to the Schaumburg area.  Relocated I-90 to this hypotenuse isn't going to relieve traffic on the Kennedy.  It is going to provide relief to the southern portion of the Tri-State, which usually isn't very busy anyway.

a missing gap that can be seen from space

By definition, gaps can't be seen.

[GeekJedi]

^lol
DZ, can you send us an in-depth map plan with ramps, interchanges, lanes, and not just a line that says the train lines?

And can you do it in Fictional Highways where it (once again) belongs?

[SEWIGuy]

The Ryan and Kennedy are clogged mostly due to local traffic.  Most through traffic from Indiana to the Northwest Tollway takes the Tri-State, and perhaps the Ike, up to the Schaumburg area.  Relocated I-90 to this hypotenuse isn't going to relieve traffic on the Kennedy.  It is going to provide relief to the southern portion of the Tri-State, which usually isn't very busy anyway.

Mostly, most? It needs to be quantified. What is it 70%? 80%? 90% "local traffic"? That leaves quite a bit as the remainder thats not local. "Relocated I-90 ....not going to relieve Kennedy". Or the IKE? We dont know that for sure.

So you are hammering away at this idea of yours to the point of obnoxiousness and you will admit that you don't know if it would help?

OK...

[dzlsabe]

The Ryan and Kennedy are clogged mostly due to local traffic.  Most through traffic from Indiana to the Northwest Tollway takes the Tri-State, and perhaps the Ike, up to the Schaumburg area.  Relocated I-90 to this hypotenuse isn't going to relieve traffic on the Kennedy.  It is going to provide relief to the southern portion of the Tri-State, which usually isn't very busy anyway.

a missing gap that can be seen from space

By definition, gaps can't be seen.

Youre right it cant be seen.  https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8337329,-87.7319639,11z

But the rail surveyors and builders in the 1850's saw "something" and built the IC (now CN) rail line out to Rockford and Id bet it hasnt had a day off since. Crosstown was trying to get "something" going several times between Cicero Av and the Skyway split area as well.

[dzlsabe]

^lol
DZ, can you send us an in-depth map plan with ramps, interchanges, lanes, and not just a line that says the train lines?

And can you do it in Fictional Highways where it (once again) belongs?

No problem. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16790.0

Big problem. Its locked.

[GeekJedi]

^lol
DZ, can you send us an in-depth map plan with ramps, interchanges, lanes, and not just a line that says the train lines?

And can you do it in Fictional Highways where it (once again) belongs?

No problem. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16790.0

Big problem. Its locked.

Not really. Start a new one. You've done it enough times here (where it isn't appropriate).

[dzlsabe]

The Ryan and Kennedy are clogged mostly due to local traffic.  Most through traffic from Indiana to the Northwest Tollway takes the Tri-State, and perhaps the Ike, up to the Schaumburg area.  Relocated I-90 to this hypotenuse isn't going to relieve traffic on the Kennedy.  It is going to provide relief to the southern portion of the Tri-State, which usually isn't very busy anyway.

Mostly, most? It needs to be quantified. What is it 70%? 80%? 90% "local traffic"? That leaves quite a bit as the remainder thats not local. "Relocated I-90 ....not going to relieve Kennedy". Or the IKE? We dont know that for sure.

So you are hammering away at this idea of yours to the point of obnoxiousness and you will admit that you don't know if it would help?

OK...

I have TOTAL confidence it would solve (or help resolve) a lot of road and rail bottlenecks. But its a FOUR BILLION dollar (my rough estimate at $250M a mile) 20-year project. YEAH a lot of studies, EISs need to be done at a minimum. What else? Double-deck the IKE or widen the Kennedy or Ryan, AGAIN? C'mon. And that still will do nothing for the Strangler, the biggest 4+ into 1 clusterF in the country.

[hobsini2]

The Ryan and Kennedy are clogged mostly due to local traffic.  Most through traffic from Indiana to the Northwest Tollway takes the Tri-State, and perhaps the Ike, up to the Schaumburg area.  Relocated I-90 to this hypotenuse isn't going to relieve traffic on the Kennedy.  It is going to provide relief to the southern portion of the Tri-State, which usually isn't very busy anyway.

Mostly, most? It needs to be quantified. What is it 70%? 80%? 90% "local traffic"? That leaves quite a bit as the remainder thats not local. "Relocated I-90 ....not going to relieve Kennedy". Or the IKE? We dont know that for sure.

So you are hammering away at this idea of yours to the point of obnoxiousness and you will admit that you don't know if it would help?

OK...

I have TOTAL confidence it would solve (or help resolve) a lot of road and rail bottlenecks. But its a FOUR BILLION dollar (my rough estimate at $250M a mile) 20-year project. YEAH a lot of studies, EISs need to be done at a minimum. What else? Double-deck the IKE or widen the Kennedy or Ryan, AGAIN? C'mon. And that still will do nothing for the Strangler, the biggest 4+ into 1 clusterF in the country.

Confidence is not a real factor in reality. Do you know much about logistics?