The Clearview thread

[odditude]

Weird how the shield on the right uses Series B, the one on the left uses Series D. Gotta love (lack) of consistency.

eh?

in the new sign, both use D.

in the old sign, both use the same number height (with B on the I-shield and C on the keystone).

both are consistent in their own way.

[jakeroot]

Weird how the shield on the right uses Series B, the one on the left uses Series D. Gotta love (lack) of consistency.

eh?

in the new sign, both use D.

in the old sign, both use the same number height (with B on the I-shield and C on the keystone).

both are consistent in their own way.

The typeface is consistent within the sign itself, but not amongst other signs. Why did PennDOT use Series B for the original sign, but not the new sign?

[ekt8750]

Weird how the shield on the right uses Series B, the one on the left uses Series D. Gotta love (lack) of consistency.

eh?

in the new sign, both use D.

in the old sign, both use the same number height (with B on the I-shield and C on the keystone).

both are consistent in their own way.

The typeface is consistent within the sign itself, but not amongst other signs. Why did PennDOT use Series B for the original sign, but not the new sign?

That's a PTC sign. Sign consistency is not one of their strongsuits.

[PHLBOS]

Weird how the shield on the right uses Series B, the one on the left uses Series D. Gotta love (lack) of consistency.

eh?

in the new sign, both use D.

in the old sign, both use the same number height (with B on the I-shield and C on the keystone).

both are consistent in their own way.

The typeface is consistent within the sign itself, but not amongst other signs. Why did PennDOT use Series B for the original sign, but not the new sign?

That's a PTC sign. Sign consistency is not one of their strongsuits.

Actually, PTC isn't the only one that uses/used Series B on their 3di shields.  I've seen similar installations in other states as well. 

My main beef with using Series B is that its narrowness makes it tougher to see at a distance.  While such isn't as big an issue when the 3di is the only one in the immediate area but when one has several 3dis that connect/cross each other (many major metropolitan areas have such); the readability of those B numerals can be problematic.

IIRC, the general SOP for 3-digit route numbers (regardless of shield type) used to be Series D for numbers containing at least a single 1 in them and Series C for all other 3-digit routes not containing any 1s in them.

It's worth noting that the previous 70s(?) era BGS' for this interchange with the dark green porcelain background w/button-copy lettering used Series C numerals for both 283 shields; and both numerals were of the same height (the I-283 shield was obviously a neutered one) so such has been and can be done.

Long story short, and yes this is veering way off topic, Series B numerals should not be used on I-shields.  While the Series D numerals for both 283 shields are acceptable on the new BGS'; Series C would've been a better choice for both IMHO.

[vdeane]

I prefer series D numerals for interstate shields, yes, including 3dis.  I don't like the look of the series C numerals as much; the shields just don't look right IMO.  It's too bad NY switched, but at least this sign in series D.

It's nice to see 15'' numerals in PA for once.  Normally they use 18'' numerals, which IMO are ugly.

[cl94]

I prefer series D numerals for interstate shields, yes, including 3dis.  I don't like the look of the series C numerals as much; the shields just don't look right IMO.  It's too bad NY switched, but at least this sign in series D.

It's nice to see 15'' numerals in PA for once.  Normally they use 18'' numerals, which IMO are ugly.

I'll take C over B any day. I was living in Columbus when ODOT switched from D to B and those looked weird. Still do.

[Quillz]

I think Series B is fine when done right. If the shield itself is narrower, and the height of the numerals has a minimum of, say, 12'', I think it works out fine. But the interstate shields were designed to not need Series B numerals, which means if you're using them, you're doing it wrong. (Compared to say, Quebec's autoroute shields, which do call for Series B digits).

[hbelkins]

The old I-283 marker on the old sign looks much, much better than the new I-283 marker on the new Clearview sign.

End of discussion.

[Quillz]

Strange how so many new Clearview signs are still going up. Did the states not get the memo about the interim Clearview approval being rescinded?

[jakeroot]

Strange how so many new Clearview signs are still going up. Did the states not get the memo about the interim Clearview approval being rescinded?

It's easier for some states to switch back than others. J N Winkler could explain in better detail why it's not as simple as just choosing the old fonts again.

[Scott5114]

If I'm remembering correctly, Oklahoma didn't get off of engineer-grade sheeting until well after the switch to Clearview was under way. Try comparing Clearview with the next new FHWA Series sign you see; you might have a different result.

[cl94]

If I'm remembering correctly, Oklahoma didn't get off of engineer-grade sheeting until well after the switch to Clearview was under way. Try comparing Clearview with the next new FHWA Series sign you see; you might have a different result.

A lot of agencies didn't change until the shift to Clearview and this is precisely why the original Clearview studies were flawed- they used old-style sheeting for FHWA and the newer stuff for Clearview.

[Pink Jazz]

It looks like here in Arizona, FHWA is finally making its way back to logo signs at least in part.  The logo signs at I-10 and Baseline Road installed in May westbound have the exit tabs in FHWA, but still have the service types in Clearview.  The service types are on a removable panel, and my guess is that ADOT produced a large quantity of them in Clearview and is simply went through its remaining stock.

On the inverse, a new Food service panel in FHWA has been installed on a logo sign at Loop 101 and Baseline/Southern northbound earlier this month, added to an existing logo sign that previously only had Gas and Lodging; there wasn't enough space on the existing Food sign for the same exit so they added extra space for Food on the existing Gas/Lodging sign.

I have been noticing some new exit gore signs in FHWA as well, however, it appears that some are using Series D while others are using Series E (non-Modified).  ADOT's current standard for freeways is supposed to be Series E (non-Modified); Series D is intended for regular roads and Series C is intended for street blades.  However, ADOT permits using one series narrower for each application if sign width is an issue.

[Eth]

As we all know, Clearview is seldom seen in Florida except on OOCEA roads. I was rather surprised this morning to see Clearview mileposts, complete with Clearview numerals and all-caps "MILE" and "NORTH," on the Sawgrass Expressway (although the "869" in the shields weren't Clearview). I've seen enough Clearview numerals on signs in Virginia to recognize what certainly looked like them. Seemed really odd to see it in use on mileposts when there was no other Clearview in the area.

Having just returned from south Florida myself today, I noticed this week the same Clearview mileposts on the Turnpike (at least the mainline, don't remember if they were on the Homestead Extension). I don't remember seeing them anywhere else, though I wasn't on the Sawgrass.

[1995hoo]

As we all know, Clearview is seldom seen in Florida except on OOCEA roads. I was rather surprised this morning to see Clearview mileposts, complete with Clearview numerals and all-caps "MILE" and "NORTH," on the Sawgrass Expressway (although the "869" in the shields weren't Clearview). I've seen enough Clearview numerals on signs in Virginia to recognize what certainly looked like them. Seemed really odd to see it in use on mileposts when there was no other Clearview in the area.

Having just returned from south Florida myself today, I noticed this week the same Clearview mileposts on the Turnpike (at least the mainline, don't remember if they were on the Homestead Extension). I don't remember seeing them anywhere else, though I wasn't on the Sawgrass.

We didn't use the HEFT on this trip, so I can't help there.

[hbelkins]

Strange how so many new Clearview signs are still going up. Did the states not get the memo about the interim Clearview approval being rescinded?

Basically, if a sign was already in the pipeline using Clearview, it got to stay Clearview.

[cl94]

Strange how so many new Clearview signs are still going up. Did the states not get the memo about the interim Clearview approval being rescinded?

Basically, if a sign was already in the pipeline using Clearview, it got to stay Clearview.

Yep. And knowing how some states work, we could be seeing new Clearview for quite a while still.

[epzik8]

I caught another Clearview transition yesterday. U.S. 29 southbound near Columbia, Maryland approaching the MD-175 interchange. I didn't take a picture.

[epzik8]

Can I quickly state my personal opinion about the two fonts?

To me, Highway Gothic seems bland and generic. Clearview is fresh, modern and more pleasing to my eyes. However, I can't blame all you older folks who were exposed to Highway Gothic a lot longer than I've been. I do like button copy signs too.

[mcmc]

I caught another Clearview transition yesterday. U.S. 29 southbound near Columbia, Maryland approaching the MD-175 interchange. I didn't take a picture.

The new signs on US 29 used Clearview or FHWA fonts?

[OracleUsr]

I caught a Clearview sign being installed yesterday eastbound on the Pennsylvania Turnpike on approach to the Susquehanna River bridge; this is in between the Harrisburg West and Harrisburg East interchanges. The Highway Gothic sign was still up.

This is why I admired PennDOT's use of Clearview.  There were certainly SOME all-Clearview signs in the Keystone State, but for a fairly large majority of the new signs, they stuck to the mixed-case-only standard that most Clearview states ignored.

[OracleUsr]

Strange how so many new Clearview signs are still going up. Did the states not get the memo about the interim Clearview approval being rescinded?

Basically, if a sign was already in the pipeline using Clearview, it got to stay Clearview.

That's only fair.  Kudos to states either moving away completely from CV or at least the remaining signs having the proper usage

[Pink Jazz]

That's only fair.  Kudos to states either moving away completely from CV or at least the remaining signs having the proper usage

It would be interesting to see a list of which states have already stopped using Clearview.  ADOT and ALDOT were already phasing out Clearview prior to this year, although with ADOT new logo signs were still using Clearview until very recently.  VDOT also seemed to get the memo pretty quickly as well.

[cl94]

That's only fair.  Kudos to states either moving away completely from CV or at least the remaining signs having the proper usage

It would be interesting to see a list of which states have already stopped using Clearview.  ADOT and ALDOT were already phasing out Clearview prior to this year, although with ADOT new logo signs were still using Clearview until very recently.  VDOT also seemed to get the memo pretty quickly as well.

NYSTA has. Signs that went up this year are FHWA.

[myosh_tino]

I can see local municipalities continuing to use Clearview on street blades for some time to come given the licensing costs (i.e. get their money's worth).  The only city near me that I know uses Clearview on its street blades is Santa Clara.  I should point out that while most cities use FHWA in one form or another (typically Series C or D), there's a fair number using other fonts like Impact and Bookman.