Best Buy stores will stop selling music CDs, and Target could be next

[Hurricane Rex]

CD's are horrible archiving discs. I had to convince a co-worker a few days ago that the music they had all saved to discs were going to degrade eventually. To illustrate the point, I brought in some CD's that I had archived photos on that had deteriorated to the point that the CD reader in the iMac had seized - and I had to do a hard reboot. The discs were always a crapshoot on build quality.

I have used streaming services - Spotify, and now Apple Music, for years. What I can't find I purchase and then add it to the respective service.

As for DVD's and other movie discs - the highest usage of RedBox and other rental services are in rural areas. I'm not able to find the paper, but the highest usage rates of RedBox were in Appalachia, which is not surprising.

What about my 2 iPod shuffles, how will those fare out storage wise in the future.

[mgk920]

Kind of interesting in that throughout most of the 1980s and into the 1990s, the big constant headlines in Billboard were supposed losses to the record labels due to 'home taping' (the ubiquitous 'mixer' cassette tapes) and the looming prospect of DAT ('Digital Audio Tape') and their feared (within the industry, AKA the RIAA) ability to make 'perfect' serial copies of material.

By the time that all of the legal and legislative wrangling of both was beginning to wind down by the early to mid 1990s, DAT technology was already left behind in the dust.  Public demonstrations of DAT vs CD technology showed that CDs, including the eventual introduction of home CD 'burners', were vastly superior, especially in the random access ability of CDs.  Later on, with the rapidly increasing processing power of home computers, the introduction of digital compression algorithms (.mp3, .aac, etc) and the orders of magnitude increases in the bandwidth of internet connections, the final stakes were driven into the older physical media technologies for non-audiophile use.

When audio CDs were first introduced in the 1980s, they were thought to be uncopyable (no 'perfect' digital copies were possible).  I can easily imagine that had home CD burners come out at the same time that the audio CD was first introduced, the RIAA would have done their very best to sue the technology into oblivion.

Mike

[Truvelo]

The biggest shortcoming of CD's and cassettes is the limited amount of time you get. Just over an hour is too short when driving long distances. There's also a road safety issue with this when changing discs and tapes whilst driving. I haven't used CD's in well over a decade. All the cars I've had since around 2005 have had USB playback, either I bought a replacement head unit or the car had a USB socket factory fitted. With a high capacity stick and 256kb MP3's I can have several days of CD quality audio without having to change discs or listen to the same songs each hour.

The computer I'm typing this on is hooked up to an amplifier and Aiwa twin cassette deck I bought new in 1997. Over 20 years later the rubber bands are still like new and I use it now solely for ripping recordings of pirate radio stations. I will sell it eventually when I have no further use for it.

[seicer]

CD's are horrible archiving discs. I had to convince a co-worker a few days ago that the music they had all saved to discs were going to degrade eventually. To illustrate the point, I brought in some CD's that I had archived photos on that had deteriorated to the point that the CD reader in the iMac had seized - and I had to do a hard reboot. The discs were always a crapshoot on build quality.

I have used streaming services - Spotify, and now Apple Music, for years. What I can't find I purchase and then add it to the respective service.

As for DVD's and other movie discs - the highest usage of RedBox and other rental services are in rural areas. I'm not able to find the paper, but the highest usage rates of RedBox were in Appalachia, which is not surprising.

What about my 2 iPod shuffles, how will those fare out storage wise in the future.

Depends on the storage medium. Many of the earlier iPods had traditional hard drives that were mechanical - similar to most hard drives today. Those components do wear out and hard drives can die.

All modern music devices - and many new hard drives are solid state (SSD). They contain no moving parts. While much more expensive, they are vastly more reliable. The prices for those SSD's are falling fast.

The most reliable method of long-term, high-capacity storage is the tape backup. These still do exist and the drives for those are expensive. The tapes themselves tend to be cost-effective, especially for large sizes. The downside to this is the read/write speeds are painfully slow.

For music - it's a moot point. Solid state drives work best, and any modern music device and smartphone will have one.

[vdeane]

When audio CDs were first introduced in the 1980s, they were thought to be uncopyable (no 'perfect' digital copies were possible).  I can easily imagine that had home CD burners come out at the same time that the audio CD was first introduced, the RIAA would have done their very best to sue the technology into oblivion.

Probably would have been similar to how the MPAA has been handling the digital revolution.  DVDs have always been encrypted, and BluRays have even more DRM - to the point that someone who didn't keep up with the software upgrades on their player would now be unable to play modern discs.  Modern players are also programmed to know what they're connected to and refuse playback if they detect a recording device on the other end of the HDMI cable.

[abefroman329]

Yet another topic to make me feel old.  I'm 60, I remember buying CDs when they first came out and not having a player for them.  I think my first CD player was a Technics, it played one disc, and IIRC, it was around $150-$200.  I recall someone I worked with spent over $500 for a CD player.

IIRC the first CD player retailed for $800.

[roadman65]

One item that started out as a luxury that became the only means of listening to music until the internet.   I remember when they first came out, they were more $ than vinyl and cassettes.  Then one day I went to replace my Lynyrd Skynrd One More For From The Road double live album and then notice that Music Den in Menlo Park Mall in Edison, NJ had all the albums under the counter in boxes as they were liquidating as that was when the music industry decided to make it "The" way to listen instead of being a choice.


Its a shame now, as we evolve once more.

[mgk920]

When audio CDs were first introduced in the 1980s, they were thought to be uncopyable (no 'perfect' digital copies were possible).  I can easily imagine that had home CD burners come out at the same time that the audio CD was first introduced, the RIAA would have done their very best to sue the technology into oblivion.

Probably would have been similar to how the MPAA has been handling the digital revolution.  DVDs have always been encrypted, and BluRays have even more DRM - to the point that someone who didn't keep up with the software upgrades on their player would now be unable to play modern discs.  Modern players are also programmed to know what they're connected to and refuse playback if they detect a recording device on the other end of the HDMI cable.

OTOH, the perceived 'value' of a legitimate movie DVD/BluRay is often far, far greater than the perceived 'value' of a legitimate audio CD - for only a few dollars extra, you get a multitude more stuff - a 1.5 hour+ full movie, out takes, a director's interview and often many other goodies in the box whereas with an audio CD, it is maybe a hour or so of sound (of which you might only like 10-15 minutes of it) and a liner sheet. 

Getting a pirate copy of a movie DVD/BluRay isn't worth the bother compared with the music CD.

Mike

[sparker]

Yet another topic to make me feel old.  I'm 60, I remember buying CDs when they first came out and not having a player for them.  I think my first CD player was a Technics, it played one disc, and IIRC, it was around $150-$200.  I recall someone I worked with spent over $500 for a CD player.

IIRC the first CD player retailed for $800.

The first CD player to be introduced (in October 1982) was a Magnavox CDP-101 (made in Holland by Philips, the parent company of Magnavox); its suggested retail was $649 (I was working for a dealer at the time, and remembered the factory rep dropping off a carton of 3 of them: one for display and two for stock).  But there was enough dealer margin that the average selling price -- figuring customer negotiation -- was closer to $500.  Sony's version, with their own digital converters and a different laser system, was released between Thanksgiving and Christmas and did retail for about $800 (but widely discounted by about 20%).  The 2nd generation stuff -- still the original 14-bit resolution, started showing up about a year later and was at much lower price points (about $300-350 and up); at that time, we also got our first "high-end" CD player, the NEC model 805 (priced at a cool grand),  which used a Sony laser system but Philips DAC chips in a ultra-heavy (about 25#) chassis; NEC claimed that the weight was necessary to "sink" resonances; I remember it being the best-sounding machine until late '86, when the first Philips-made 16-bit machines started coming on line. 

[D-Dey65]

Yet another topic to make me feel old.  I'm 60, I remember buying CDs when they first came out and not having a player for them.  I think my first CD player was a Technics, it played one disc, and IIRC, it was around $150-$200.  I recall someone I worked with spent over $500 for a CD player.

With me, it's the exact opposite. I once ordered a vinyl copy of The Wretched Ones' self-titled album, passing up the CD, because I didn't have a CD player.

All of the sudden for Christmas, I ended up with a CD player... within weeks of getting the album. I forget the make and model (which I still have in storage somewhere), but it was probably somewhere in the $150-200 range, give or take ten or twenty bucks.

[Duke87]

Have digital non-streaming movies/TV shows taken off?  My understanding is that most of the digital video action is with streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime, and nothing that isn't original content is guaranteed to stay on for long.

Pirated digital non-streaming movies/TV shows have been a thing for quite some time. But yes I don't know of there being much of a market for content being purchased in this manner. The key hurdle is that most people will want to watch it on their big screen TV, not on their computer.

For this reason, Blu-Rays are still a thing and not in any particular state of decline. DVDs, on the other hand, are at this point the cheap alternative - but they are propped up somewhat as a format by the fact that once you have a disc player there is relatively little marginal cost to make it able to play DVDs as well as blu-rays. They are the same exact size and shape and fit in the same tray.


As for CDs... yeah it is kind of weird that they have lasted as long as they have. From when CDs first hit the market to when vinyl was dead as a doornail for new music took about 10 years. DVDs similarly supplanted VHS tapes in about 7 years. But here we are two full decades after Napster introduced the world to downloading music and you can still get just about any new album on CD if you are so inclined.

I do think cars are part of why. It's only within the past 5 years or so that cars have really made it to the point of being able to play digital music on their own without an attached device (and even then, some models still suck at this). Given the lifecycle of the average automobile it will be years still before cars that lack this ability are mostly not on the road anymore.

[ZLoth]

But yes I don't know of there being much of a market for content being purchased in this manner. The key hurdle is that most people will want to watch it on their big screen TV, not on their computer.

Oh? If someone is sophisticated enough to download a video file, they can copy that video file to the stick, then play that file on a Television, BluRay player, or media player that supports USB.

If someone is really sophisticated, they can set up a Plex (what I use) or similar media player to serve up that file through a web browser, DLC, or an application on your mobile device, television, or media player.

Believe it or not, while I had a portable CD player, I never had a regular CD player. Almost 20 years after CDs were introduced, DVD players were available that could play CDs.

[vdeane]

Heck, there are still some productions that only get a DVD release, with no BluRay.  The US season sets for The Librarians come to mind.  I think the same is true of Steven Universe.

[MikeTheActuary]

But yes I don't know of there being much of a market for content being purchased in this manner. The key hurdle is that most people will want to watch it on their big screen TV, not on their computer

However, thanks to the mass switch to ATSC, most households' primary TVs have HDMI ports.  Gadgets to feed streaming video to HDMI are fairly cheap and fairly small...if you don't want to simply plug in the computer to the TV, or if the TV isn't "smart" enough to have the necessary software built in.

[Jardine]

I forget what benefit it was supposed to provide but I recall early on in the CD era we were supposed to take a green felt tip pen and mark the outer edges of all our CDs.

[sparker]

I forget what benefit it was supposed to provide but I recall early on in the CD era we were supposed to take a green felt tip pen and mark the outer edges of all our CDs.

I believe it was to remove the information that says it can't be copied or for other restrictions. However, the actual data starts from the inside, so if the amount of time isn't at full capacity, no actual music will be lost.

Actually, it was to prevent laser diffraction from traveling through the clear polycarbonate CD body, which might, on less than properly aligned CD transports, cause "falsing",  making the CD playback skip or otherwise not read data properly.  Most felt pens didn't do the trick, since they merely colored the inner and outer edges while remaining translucent.  There was a product available for years called "CD Stoplight", which was a medium-green paint -- not ink -- applicator with a groove built into the tip to run around the edges of the CD's.  They were about $15-20 a pop; I tried it out back in the '90's, but found that the applicator would release pools of green ink where you didn't want it -- tabletops, carpet, etc.  Didn't seem to make any real sonic difference in any case -- a one-time purchase on my part!

[1995hoo]

....

I do think cars are part of why. It's only within the past 5 years or so that cars have really made it to the point of being able to play digital music on their own without an attached device (and even then, some models still suck at this). Given the lifecycle of the average automobile it will be years still before cars that lack this ability are mostly not on the road anymore.

CDs contain digital music. It's a question of compatible storage media. Cars have been able to play CDs, and hence "digital music," since the 1980s, but it's only more recently that they've been able to handle the various portable and wireless players the media incorrectly call ".MP3 players" (it's incorrect because the vast majority of such are not limited to that format).

[Pete from Boston]

Each Christmas I get my young niece and nephew some old movie or TV show on DVD to indoctrinate them into liking what I did at their age. This year the ubiquitous DVD impulse-buy displays at Target were nearly gone.  I'm going to have to get the Munsters online I guess.

[Roadgeekteen]

Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.

[1995hoo]

Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.

Until the artist whose music you like decides not to participate with those services, or you want a high-resolution recording instead of lossy compression.

[spooky]

Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.

Age=14

the artist whose music you like decides not to participate with those services, or you want a high-resolution recording instead of lossy compression.

Age=44

Guess which one of you the music industry is more interested in.

[formulanone]

Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.

Age=14

the artist whose music you like decides not to participate with those services, or you want a high-resolution recording instead of lossy compression.

Age=44

Guess which one of you the music industry is more interested in.

After age 25, most of us become increasingly distant from the music industry's ideas of what we enjoy, as we splinter off into our own interests.

There's always going to be folks that constantly listen to one or two stations, but figure that is also decreasing in overall popularity.

It's going to cater to the 15-25 set, which is definitely when I spent a lot more money on music (and an inverse proportion of my income compared to today).

[1995hoo]

My response had nothing to do with the music industry and was directed at his comment about how physical media aren't needed.

It's not just older people's music for which that's relevant. I don't listen to Taylor Swift, but I recall the fuss it caused when her management pulled her music from Spotify. My point is, and I think vdeane said something similar to this earlier, if you give an online service control of your access to your music, you give up the ability to ensure you retain access to your music.

[kkt]

My response had nothing to do with the music industry and was directed at his comment about how physical media aren't needed.

It's not just older people's music for which that's relevant. I don't listen to Taylor Swift, but I recall the fuss it caused when her management pulled her music from Spotify. My point is, and I think vdeane said something similar to this earlier, if you give an online service control of your access to your music, you give up the ability to ensure you retain access to your music.

Exactly!  The discs are self-contained, not dependent on some server at the other end to be working/reachable/rights owners haven't changed their mind.

[1995hoo]

Also, BTW, I don't mean to imply you should only buy physical discs. I download music, especially Springsteen's archival concert series in 24/192 .FLAC. (He does offer them on CD, but why not get the higher-quality format in less time? I'd go for the DSD release except I don't have a DSD-capable DAC or portable player. I'd like to get an Astell & Kern KANN, but I don't have $999 to spare just now.)

I then either burn it to disc or convert it to the format I need for a given use. But the point is, I make sure it's stored where I control my access to it, not someone else running a server somewhere.