What the hell Kansas?

[ARMOURERERIC]

OK, I make medieval armour for a living, and frequently hang out with groups that would buy my product.  There is a major function of one of these groups, SCa, called Pennsic War north of Pittsburgh, this disturbing report was posted today.  I know this person personally, straight, stand up guy with a wife and kids and a homeowner in Riverside CA.  I have now since had over 30 similar reports from past clients going through Kansas in the last 36 hours, some had to turn back from the excessive interior damage by the Kanas State Police:

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If anyone is planning to make the cross country drive to Pennsic be sure your route does not take you through
the state of Kansas. Law enforcement in the state of Kansas is rabid in their search for people smuggling marijuana.
Out of state license plates are targets of opportunity especially California plates and their dogs can smell drugs in your vehicle or trailer that were never there.

Do not end up like I did last week, detained in handcuffs for two hours after being stopped on the I-35, while police and state troopers ransacked my trailer full of SCA gear.

When they finally realize that they cannot even make a traffic ticket stick, they will force you to pay $100 tow bill for having your vehicle ferried to the place where they could make a more thorough search.

Avoid Kansas at all costs.

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What the heck is going on?

[NE2]

Stick to blue states.

[ARMOURERERIC]

I now have reports of 45 cars stopped, 15 damaged by the police so bad, they had to turnaround and drive back to CA

[roadman65]

OK, I make medieval armour for a living, and frequently hang out with groups that would buy my product.  There is a major function of one of these groups, SCa, called Pennsic War north of Pittsburgh, this disturbing report was posted today.  I know this person personally, straight, stand up guy with a wife and kids and a homeowner in Riverside CA.  I have now since had over 30 similar reports from past clients going through Kansas in the last 36 hours, some had to turn back from the excessive interior damage by the Kanas State Police:

----------

If anyone is planning to make the cross country drive to Pennsic be sure your route does not take you through
the state of Kansas. Law enforcement in the state of Kansas is rabid in their search for people smuggling marijuana.
Out of state license plates are targets of opportunity especially California plates and their dogs can smell drugs in your vehicle or trailer that were never there.

Do not end up like I did last week, detained in handcuffs for two hours after being stopped on the I-35, while police and state troopers ransacked my trailer full of SCA gear.

When they finally realize that they cannot even make a traffic ticket stick, they will force you to pay $100 tow bill for having your vehicle ferried to the place where they could make a more thorough search.

Avoid Kansas at all costs.

---------

What the heck is going on?

You have not been to Georgia lately?  You would think that Georgia police, especially Charlton County that is right next to Florida, would not hassle cars with Florida tags for potential drug running, yet one did for me.  He tried to say I was weaving and asked me to blow into his tube for blood alcohol level check.  I, of course, was very sober, but then the crap hit the fan, when he said " You do not mind if I do a check of your vehicle, we just want to make sure you are not carrying drugs or anything."  Of course, I complied and signed a waiver of rights paper for search of my rented vehicle  so he would not take me off to jail for an overnight stay, as officers are allowed to do that. Depending on the state, law enforcement does have the right to detain anyone for X amount of hours before they have to either release you or charge you with an act, so I did not want to begin my vacation in some southern jail.

If Georgia can do that to a neighbor, especially one up the street as in the case of Charlton County being a forty minuet drive to Jacksonville and even less to those rural parts of the city limits that come within a few miles of Charlton itself, then why can't  Kansas be that way. 

[Avalanchez71]

I do not consent to warrant-less searches.  This is not a police state.  You do not have to give up your rights.  However, with the drug dog detecting, that is enough for probable cause to search.  The Carlton County situation on the other is not.  I would politely refuse and then ask to be one my way.

[US71]

People coming in from out of state to the Wakarusa Music Festival near Ozark, Arkansas last month were often stopped and searched. At least one carload of people was arrested in Bella Vista for drug possession.  Word went out over Facebook rather quickly: clean off your car windows, obey the speed limit and leave the drugs at home.

[roadman65]

I do not consent to warrant-less searches.  This is not a police state.  You do not have to give up your rights.  However, with the drug dog detecting, that is enough for probable cause to search.  The Carlton County situation on the other is not.  I would politely refuse and then ask to be one my way.

The problem is that Georgia cops have a bad rap on them.  I have no idea about law in that state (or Kansas), so I complied.  I did, though, figured out that going over the 55 limit is a misconception, as I did 55 on US 1 throughout the state and was passed by many including truckers.  That is another reason why I remain cautious because I do not know what is myth and what is true.

I do know that whenever, you leave to another state, you need to prepare yourself to be harrassed as many of my friends who are police officers tell me that  always they  look at out of state cars as potential troublemakers except here in Florida because tourism is the number one business and our government does not want to offend the "customers."  Remember the customer is always right unless you are the customer.

[kphoger]

I've lived in Kansas for a total of 14 or 15 years, and I've never heard a story like yours.  I do know that I-70 is a huge cross-country drug trafficking corridor, and I've heard stories about actual drug runners.  But nothing like what you're describing.

[ShawnP]

Anyone traveling on I-70 west of Topeka needs lots of drugs to combat the sheer boredom and drudgery of I-70 in that area.

[J N Winkler]

I haven't seen any reports of aggressive drug enforcement in either the I-35 or I-70 corridors.  However, the speed limits on rural Interstates are enforced within very tight tolerances, so I would not exceed them by even 5 MPH except for short-lived overtaking maneuvers.

[WichitaRoads]

I haven't seen any reports of aggressive drug enforcement in either the I-35 or I-70 corridors.  However, the speed limits on rural Interstates are enforced within very tight tolerances, so I would not exceed them by even 5 MPH except for short-lived overtaking maneuvers.

True, but especially for out-of-state drivers. In-state they are more "easy-going" with... but still, don't over-do it.

ICTRds

[The High Plains Traveler]

I've wondered how paranoid I should be driving a vehicle with Colorado plates out of state, given that by the beginning of next year I could legally (by the state's reckoning, anyway) purchase small amounts of marijuana for personal use. I don't know if my age would limit the suspicion, or whether they'd realize I'm just an aging hippie and be even more so.

[bugo]

People coming in from out of state to the Wakarusa Music Festival near Ozark, Arkansas last month were often stopped and searched. At least one carload of people was arrested in Bella Vista for drug possession.  Word went out over Facebook rather quickly: clean off your car windows, obey the speed limit and leave the drugs at home.

If you think there were no drugs at Waka then you're deluding yourself.

[US71]

People coming in from out of state to the Wakarusa Music Festival near Ozark, Arkansas last month were often stopped and searched. At least one carload of people was arrested in Bella Vista for drug possession.  Word went out over Facebook rather quickly: clean off your car windows, obey the speed limit and leave the drugs at home.

If you think there were no drugs at Waka then you're deluding yourself.

I never said there weren't.

[triplemultiplex]

This is the kind of insanity we have because of that stupid drug war.  The whole enterprise is racist, ineffective, and amounts to a jobs program for the prison-industrial complex.  The drug war has effectively bypassed the part of the Constitution that supposedly protects citizens against unwarranted search and seizure.  "You won't consent to a search? Fine, we'll "detain" you (aka "arrest you without charge") until we can find a judge that will give us a warrant!"  Yay freedom!

The war on drugs has caused far more harm than all of the illegal drugs it's trying to 'protect' us from.  It destroys families and creates more people with no other recourse but to sell drugs in a vicious self-sustaining cycle.  It is a misguided attempt to treat a medical problem as if it's a law enforcement problem.  Total and complete failure.  Getting stopped by redneck pigs for unrelated bullshit is only the tip of iceberg that is America's stupid, stupid drug war.

[US71]

This is the kind of insanity we have because of that stupid drug war.  The whole enterprise is racist, ineffective, and amounts to a jobs program for the prison-industrial complex. 

That's exactly what it is. The prison-industrial complex lobbies Congress for stricter drug laws which creates the need for more prisons.

[The High Plains Traveler]

This is the kind of insanity we have because of that stupid drug war.  The whole enterprise is racist, ineffective, and amounts to a jobs program for the prison-industrial complex. 

That's exactly what it is. The prison-industrial complex lobbies Congress for stricter drug laws which creates the need for more prisons.

If two states can vote, as they did in 2012, to begin to end this lunacy, then perhaps the general public is beginning to realize the truths raised above.

Ironically, my Facebook page has ads telling me that my best career choice - even at my age - is with Corrections Corporation of America at their Bent County (CO) facility. Not mentioned is that their nearby Crowley County facility is closing due to Colorado finally beginning to come to its senses when it comes to incarceration policies.

Dunno if I still have to worry about driving across Kansas (not transporting anything, promise.)

Getting way out of hand here. Time for the moderator to step in I guess.

[kphoger]

The war on drugs has caused far more harm than all of the illegal drugs it's trying to 'protect' us from.  It destroys families and creates more people with no other recourse but to sell drugs in a vicious self-sustaining cycle.  It is a misguided attempt to treat a medical problem as if it's a law enforcement problem.  Total and complete failure.  Getting stopped by redneck pigs for unrelated bullshit is only the tip of iceberg that is America's stupid, stupid drug war.

My mother-in-law just got out of prison yesterday for selling/possessing/trafficking drugs, and a bunch of us are going to Branson this weekend for a big family party for her.  She's been in the drug scene since my wife was a little child, but had given us the impression she was past that part of her life.  But, really, she had just become better at keeping it hidden from everyone.  Getting busted for selling meth and going to prison for a few years was, in our opinion, the best thing that could have happened to her.  She was damaging her own life, damaging the lives of those she sold to, and setting a bad example for her two youngest sisters–the older of which has been following in her footsteps in all the wrong ways for several years now.

I'm personally glad there was a system in place to arrest her, stop her in her tracks, keep her forcibly clean and away from it all, scare her enough to make her stop selling, and provide education on how to keep her life from sliding back down that hill again in the future.  I'm also very glad that my wife and youngest sister-in-law have seen the destruction caused by drugs throughout their early lives and have wanted nothing to do with it.

Now, I'm up to a debate on where exactly the line should be drawn between "OK" and "not OK" (caffeine, for example, is an addictive central nervous system stimulant, yet few people are pushing for its abolition), but you won't hear me badmouthing the "drug war" (whatever that is, exactly) in general–because the fight against drugs has helped my family.

[cpzilliacus]

Now, I'm up to a debate on where exactly the line should be drawn between "OK" and "not OK" (caffeine, for example, is an addictive central nervous system stimulant, yet few people are pushing for its abolition), but you won't hear me badmouthing the "drug war" (whatever that is, exactly) in general–because the fight against drugs has helped my family.

I don't use illegal drugs. Never have, never will.  I find marihuana to be a vile and disgusting substance, worse than tobacco and I passionately dislike the "stoner" so-called "culture."

But I am very much in favor of terminating Richard Milhous Nixon's "War on Drugs" (which was significantly stepped-up under Reagan) and making marihuana legal (and taxable by the federal and state governments).  The "War on Drugs" has wasted billions of tax dollars and enriched organized crime in places like Mexico, Colombia, Nigeria, Russia and Afghanistan  while eroding our Constitutional rights.

I actually feel that at least some other drugs that are currently illegal should also be made legal, including most opiates and cocaine (but probably not PCP and not methamphetamines).  Or - we need to outlaw tobacco and alcohol too, since they are also addictive. 

[Brandon]

^^ Given that we tried that latter with alcohol in the 1920s with not-so-great results, I'd rather just give up on this crappy War on Drugs (stepped up by Reagan, Clinton, and even this current President).

BTW, the spelling is marijuana, with a "j".  Marihuana hasn't been used as a spelling in decades.

[triplemultiplex]

I'm personally glad there was a system in place to arrest her, stop her in her tracks, keep her forcibly clean and away from it all, scare her enough to make her stop selling, and provide education on how to keep her life from sliding back down that hill again in the future.  I'm also very glad that my wife and youngest sister-in-law have seen the destruction caused by drugs throughout their early lives and have wanted nothing to do with it.

She didn't have to go to prison to get better.  Addiction is a disease, not a crime.  Society's laws should reflect this.
Now your mother in law has a felony conviction to her name which, like millions of other Americans, makes her unemployable in the eyes of many, many companies, and the government.  Now they can't get a job that pays a living wage.

Worse yet, many drug convictions come with mandatory sentencing, replacing the wisdom of veteran judges with grandstanding politicians looking to score points in the next election.  Then these "felons" are perpetually demonized by politicians of a certain bend; demanding laws that test poor people for drugs in order to get government assistance.  So what else is there to do except sell more drugs?  If you came from a family that's already been shredded by drug convictions and poverty, you don't have much of a support structure.  Might need to start hanging out with other people in the neighborhood in a similar situation; perhaps you can gang up to help each other out.

And because the system is racist, we "have" to lock up people for crack possession umpteen times longer than for cocaine possession.  It's the same goddamn drug!  The idea that one is more dangerous than the other is a distortion of reality.  Only crack's lower cost makes it more 'dangerous'.  Coke is way stronger.

The real crime associated with illicit drugs is the millions of lives ruined or seriously disrupted for doing something the last 3 Presidents have all done.  If the Drug War is supposed to be a reasonable solution to a health crisis, then tobacco and alcohol should be part of this nonsense as well since they kill orders of magnitude more people than all illegal drugs combined.  Hell, prescription drugs kill more people than illegal drugs.  Whatever seemingly rational basis this started on has been completely lost in a giant machine of prisons, law enforcement agencies, lawyers and politicians.  I don't even want to get in to how upset I am over the privatization of locking up Americans.  Now these draconian laws have a multi-billion dollar for-profit industry lobbying on their behalf.

[kphoger]

Mexico

Things were fine as recently as ten years ago, and drugs were no more legal then than they are now.  Many things have transpired since that time, and not all of them are easy to pin down, but one important one is that the government used to have a certain amount of tolerance for the drug trade, which kept things low-key.  Another important factor that is often overlooked is that México's government used to be a lot more centralized than it is now, and officials were able to maintain a top-down handle on the drug trade, allowing for cartels to operate but at the same time keeping them fairly localized and unpressured; the decentralization of the government and recent anti-corruption campaigns have not allowed that sort of equilibrium to be maintained.

I'm personally glad there was a system in place to arrest her, stop her in her tracks, keep her forcibly clean and away from it all, scare her enough to make her stop selling, and provide education on how to keep her life from sliding back down that hill again in the future.  I'm also very glad that my wife and youngest sister-in-law have seen the destruction caused by drugs throughout their early lives and have wanted nothing to do with it.

She didn't have to go to prison to get better.  Addiction is a disease, not a crime.

Addiction may be a disease (and I'd say we're stretching the definition of disease just to say that it is), but starting to begin with is a choice.  It's a choice that has consequences, and those consequences affect other people.  My wife is one such affected person, and you should hear the things she remembers from her childhood.  When I look at my sister-in-law's young children, I see other people who are affected by her choices.  It's damaging to people's lives, to family health, and to our society as a whole.  When people endanger the lives of others, then I don't think removing them from society (jailing) is an inappropriate response.

And selling meth (which is what she was in for) is a crime, not a disease.

[hbelkins]

Worse yet, many drug convictions come with mandatory sentencing, replacing the wisdom of veteran judges with grandstanding politicians looking to score points in the next election.

In lots of states, Kentucky included, judges are elected officials and they have to be responsive to the public's wishes or they lose the next election.

And because the system is racist

That's really funny. Were you trying to tell a joke?

doing something 2 of the last 3 Presidents have all done

FIFY. There were lots of allegations that Bush 43 used coke, but no one ever proved them, and no one ever came forward to admit that they had done drugs with W or seen him do drugs. And in our "15 minutes of fame" society, anyone who had ever witnessed this would definitely have come forward to tell the world. W admits that he abused alcohol but has never admitted doing coke.

As for alcohol, there is a big difference between drinking alcoholic beverages and using drugs. The whole purpose of using drugs is to get wasted. That's not the case with alcohol.

And selling meth (which is what she was in for) is a crime, not a disease.

I agree. I think addicts should get treatment, but dealers should be punished.

[triplemultiplex]

And because the system is racist

That's really funny. Were you trying to tell a joke?

Just reporting reality.  A non-white person is far more likely to be arrested, charged and convicted for a drug crime despite the fact drug use is statistically even among the races.

There were lots of allegations that Bush 43 used coke, but no one ever proved them, and no one ever came forward to admit that they had done drugs with W or seen him do drugs. And in our "15 minutes of fame" society, anyone who had ever witnessed this would definitely have come forward to tell the world. W admits that he abused alcohol but has never admitted doing coke.

The son of a rich and powerful man in his prime during the 1980's?  Of course he used coke.  Doesn't change my opinion of the man whether he did or didn't.

As for alcohol, there is a big difference between drinking alcoholic beverages and using drugs. The whole purpose of using drugs is to get wasted. That's not the case with alcohol.

Is it?  What is a slight buzz other than a mild form of being wasted?  How is that different from someone who has refined taste in cannabis and enjoys having a small amount at the end of a tough day at work?  That's a distinction without a difference in my mind.

I should note that despite being a strong critic of America's less-than-intelligent drug policies, I am not a consumer, nor do I have any aspirations to be one.  I see my nation pissing away valuable resources on a self-defeating enterprise that causes more suffering than it prevents.  All you right wingers should be mad as hell about the lengths 'big government' goes to trample people's rights and lives in the name of some unwinnable crusade against what people do in their private lives.

[hbelkins]

As for alcohol, there is a big difference between drinking alcoholic beverages and using drugs. The whole purpose of using drugs is to get wasted. That's not the case with alcohol.

Is it?  What is a slight buzz other than a mild form of being wasted?  How is that different from someone who has refined taste in cannabis and enjoys having a small amount at the end of a tough day at work?  That's a distinction without a difference in my mind.

OK, change the word "wasted" to "intoxicated," which would categorically include your word "buzzed." Some people enjoy beer and wine, and even bourbon, for the taste and not for any intoxicating effects. The sole purpose of smoking marijuana is to become intoxicated.