DST (2018)

[tradephoric]

Sigh.  Shall I try again?  The dates of transition are determined Federally.  States can opt out of DST entirely, but they can't make up their own transition dates or decide to have DST year-round.

Here is the statute in the Uniform Time Code Act of 1966 that address violations.  What processes they would use to ensure compliance is pretty open.  Maybe the department of transportation would withhold federal funds until the state gained compliance. 

(c)  For any violation of the provisions of this section the Inter-violations state Commerce Commission or its duly authorized agent may apply to the district court of the United States for the district in which such violation occurs for the enforcement of this section; and such court shall have jurisdiction to enforce obedience thereto by writ of injunction or by other process, mandatory or otherwise, restraining against further violations of this section and enjoining obedience thereto.

[kkt]

Sigh.  Shall I try again?  The dates of transition are determined Federally.  States can opt out of DST entirely, but they can't make up their own transition dates or decide to have DST year-round.

Here is the statute in the Uniform Time Code Act of 1966 that address violations.  What processes they would use to ensure compliance is pretty open.  Maybe the department of transportation would withhold federal funds until the state gained compliance. 

(c)  For any violation of the provisions of this section the Inter-violations state Commerce Commission or its duly authorized agent may apply to the district court of the United States for the district in which such violation occurs for the enforcement of this section; and such court shall have jurisdiction to enforce obedience thereto by writ of injunction or by other process, mandatory or otherwise, restraining against further violations of this section and enjoining obedience thereto.

Looks pretty plain.  If a state defied the ICC, the ICC could sue in Federal district court and the court could issue an injuction.  If the state defied the injunction, the court could apply penalties to the responsible officials for contempt of court.

[GaryV]

There are places that straddle time-zone lines.  For example, Porcupine Mountains State Park in Michigan is in both Ontonagon and Gobebic Counties.  There are signs that state that the park observes Eastern time.

[KEVIN_224]

One would think D.S.T. gets it's semi-annual big test on Thursday. Summer starts at 6:07 AM EDT. The sunset for Hartford, CT will be at 8:30 PM. It will be at 8:26 PM in Portland, ME.

[oscar]

Here is the statute in the Uniform Time Code Act of 1966 that address violations.  What processes they would use to ensure compliance is pretty open.  Maybe the department of transportation would withhold federal funds until the state gained compliance. 

(c)  For any violation of the provisions of this section the Inter-violations state Interstate Commerce Commission or its duly authorized agent may apply to the district court of the United States for the district in which such violation occurs for the enforcement of this section; and such court shall have jurisdiction to enforce obedience thereto by writ of injunction or by other process, mandatory or otherwise, restraining against further violations of this section and enjoining obedience thereto.

FTFY. The ICC no longer exists, but its time zone responsibilities were transferred to the Department of Transportation.

[tradephoric]

Yep, tomorrow is the big day!  Anybody who wants to get rid of DST has to convince the people of Connecticut that 7:30 PM sunsets on the longest day of the year is a good thing.  Imagine someone living in Connecticut commuting home from NYC... a lot of those people don't get home till 7:30 PM after dealing with NYC traffic.  It's even worse for the 2nd largest city in America... without DST the sun would set in LA at 7:07 PM tomorrow.  Do the 24 million people living in Southern California really want 7:07 PM sunsets on the longest day of the year?  This country will never get rid of DST... the only option if we don't want disruptive time-changes is making DST permanent.  And people on this thread have indeed proposed year-round standard time.  They have to convince us that 7:07 PM sunsets in LA would be a good thing tomorrow... and the rest of us holding pitchforks will be listening contently.

[jp the roadgeek]

Yep, tomorrow is the big day!  Anybody who wants to get rid of DST has to convince the people of Connecticut that 7:30 PM sunsets on the longest day of the year is a good thing.

Or a 4:15 AM sunrise for that matter. 

[bugo]

Changing the clocks twice a year is unnecessary and causes unnecessary stress and lowers productivity. There is no reason to do it. I have sleep apnea so it is especially hard for me to adjust my schedule by an hour twice a year. It is an outdated idea that has been obsolete since electric lights became commonplace in homes and businesses. It needs to be done away with and we need to go to year round daylight saving time. It is inhumane to expect every person in the country to adjust their entire schedules, especially their sleep schedules, twice a year. There's simply no point in it. None whatsoever. Do away with it yesterday.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

It's Summer now (in the Northern hemisphere, Winter in the Southern one).

About sunset times, today the sunset in my area is as late as 9:41 PM CEST. As always, this is a result of Spain being in the 'wrong' time zone, with DST all-year round... and double DST in the Summer. In my 'forum time' this is 12:41 PM PDT (I should be using Mountain time right now, but since as of this post Big Rig Steve is in Arizona which doesn't observe DST, I use Pacific time to get the correct hour).

[hotdogPi]

Sunrise is at 5:05 AM here, and sunset is 8:25 PM. Almost the same latitude, but in the correct time zone.

It's Summer now (in the Northern hemisphere, Winter in the Southern one).

About sunset times, today the sunset in my area is as late as 9:41 PM CEST. As always, this is a result of Spain being in the 'wrong' time zone, with DST all-year round... and double DST in the Summer. In my 'forum time' this is 12:41 PM PDT (I should be using Mountain time right now, but since as of this post Big Rig Steve is in Arizona which doesn't observe DST, I use Pacific time to get the correct hour).

I thought Spain (and the rest of mainland Europe) normally used 24-hour time.

[Eth]

Yep, tomorrow is the big day!  Anybody who wants to get rid of DST has to convince the people of Connecticut that 7:30 PM sunsets on the longest day of the year is a good thing.

And again, anyone who wants year-round DST has to convince the people of Atlanta that post-8:30 AM sunrises on the winter equinox are a good thing. That ain't happening either.

Unpopular opinion here, I know, but the current situation is honestly about the best we're gonna get.

[tradephoric]

And again, anyone who wants year-round DST has to convince the people of Atlanta that post-8:30 AM sunrises on the winter equinox are a good thing. That ain't happening either.

Unpopular opinion here, I know, but the current situation is honestly about the best we're gonna get.

Realistically, there are plenty more people still asleep at 8:30AM (when the sun would rise in the winter in Atlanta with year-round DST) compared to those sleeping at 6:30PM (when the sun would set in the winter).  If maximizing the waking hours of daylight Americans receive in the winter is a metric for what's best, then year-round DST would absolutely be better than the system we currently have in place.  The biggest thing is with permanent DST we wouldn't be dealing with disruptive time changes 2 times a year, which has documented negative consequences to people's health and well-being.

Economically year-round DST would be great.  All those people who can't function early in the morning without daylight will just drink more coffee.  Just invest in your favorite coffee company and make DST permanent.  But the real economic impact is having more daylight after work.  People will be more likely to be out and about while it's still light out after work, compared to going straight home when it's already pitch dark.  I just looked up the magic Kingdom Park hours and they are from 9AM to Midnight.  Seeing that the sun would have already risen before 9AM, even on the shortest day of the year, going to permanent DST would increase the amount of daylight in the park by a full hour each day throughout the winter.  That's got to be good for business.  You think the Florida legislator just randomly passed the Sunshine Protection Act this year?  I don't think so.  The tourism industry is big business in Florida and we are talking about a lot of money left on the table by not having later sunsets during the winter.

[hotdogPi]

If Florida goes to AST (I refuse to call it "permanent DST"), the whole Atlantic coast must change, as well as some inland cities like Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Florida is on the western edge of the Eastern time zone. It makes no sense for cities hundreds of miles east of Florida, like New York City and Boston, to remain on Eastern while Florida (except the Panhandle) goes to Atlantic.

[kalvado]

If Florida goes to AST (I refuse to call it "permanent DST"), the whole Atlantic coast must change, as well as some inland cities like Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Florida is on the western edge of the Eastern time zone. It makes no sense for cities hundreds of miles east of Florida, like New York City and Boston, to remain on Eastern while Florida (except the Panhandle) goes to Atlantic.

I can see the concept of north-south time zones to be less than perfect, looks like borders have to at an angle.
But then Boston is also bragging about AST,,

[tradephoric]

But then Boston is also bragging about AST,,

Yep, and the Massachusetts legislator has cited early winter sunsets as a rational for wanting to move to Atlantic time.  Early Boston sunsets in the winter is solved with permanent DST, and you would no longer have Massachusetts and Maine keep talking about wanting to switch to Atlantic Time.  The worst thing that could happen is keeping the status quo, and the Atlantic states actually moving forward with a time-zone change to Atlantic time.  Then the lower 48 states would be separated by 5 time-zones as opposed to only 4.  People living in Connecticut commuting to NYC could someday be crossing a time-zone on their way to work in NYC.  Unnecessary confusion.  Going to permanent DST ensures that the lower 48 remains on only 4 time-zones, even if some states decide to switch from observing DST to observing standard time (potentially Indiana, Michigan, etc.).

[ErmineNotyours]

Have all the lower 48 states shift time zones for the equivalent of year round DST.  It will be weird after growing up in the Pacific Time Zone to be living in the Mountain Time Zone, though there are mountains in Washington.

[kalvado]

But then Boston is also bragging about AST,,

Yep, and the Massachusetts legislator has cited early winter sunsets as a rational for wanting to move to Atlantic time.  Early Boston sunsets in the winter is solved with permanent DST, and you would no longer have Massachusetts and Maine keep talking about wanting to switch to Atlantic Time.  The worst thing that could happen is keeping the status quo, and the Atlantic states actually moving forward with a time-zone change to Atlantic time.  Then the lower 48 states would be separated by 5 time-zones as opposed to only 4.  People living in Connecticut commuting to NYC could someday be crossing a time-zone on their way to work in NYC.  Unnecessary confusion.  Going to permanent DST ensures that the lower 48 remains on only 4 time-zones, even if some states decide to switch from observing DST to observing standard time (potentially Indiana, Michigan, etc.).

Year round DST is no different by switching to next time zone without DST. Legal differences - maybe, but in terms of clock reading it is exact same thing.

[tradephoric]

Have all the lower 48 states shift time zones for the equivalent of year round DST.  It will be weird after growing up in the Pacific Time Zone to be living in the Mountain Time Zone, though there are mountains in Washington.

The Uniform Time Code Act of 1966 allows states to opt out of DST.  If the time-zones were simply shifted and DST was eliminated, states would no longer have that opt-out option (since DST would presumably no longer exist).  At that point if a state wanted to change times they would have to apply for a time-zone change which would have to be approved by the federal government.  Taking control away from the states and giving it to the federal government is not the right approach in this case, it rarely is.  That's why permanent DST is a better solution.

[tradephoric]

So what is everyone's sunrise/sunset times for today?  In Detroit it rises at 5:55 AM and sets at 9:13 PM.   Pretty sweet.

[hbelkins]

So what is everyone's sunrise/sunset times for today?  In Detroit it rises at 5:55 AM and sets at 9:13 PM.   Pretty sweet.

Sunrise was at 6:12 a.m., which is too early for me. (7 a.m. would be perfect). Sunset will be at 8:58 p.m., and I would not mind if it was later, say 9:30.

[jeffandnicole]

So what is everyone's sunrise/sunset times for today?  In Detroit it rises at 5:55 AM and sets at 9:13 PM.   Pretty sweet.

"Before I woke up"
"When I'll be in the house watching TV"

[kkt]

So what is everyone's sunrise/sunset times for today?  In Detroit it rises at 5:55 AM and sets at 9:13 PM.   Pretty sweet.

Seattle today:

begin civil twilight 4:30 am
sunrise 5:11 am
sunset 9:10 pm
end civil twilight 9:52 pm

It would be okay with me if in addition to regular daylight savings time, we observed double daylight saving time from the 2nd Sunday in May through the first Monday in September (Labor Day in the U.S.).  End those super early sunrises in summer.   

[english si]

obsolete since electric lights became commonplace in homes and businesses.

ie pretty much it was brought in, for basically the reason it came in.

"if we have it light later in summer, we'll use less electricity lighting homes in the evening" was a key argument for DST.

[bugo]

It's Summer now (in the Northern hemisphere, Winter in the Southern one).

About sunset times, today the sunset in my area is as late as 9:41 PM CEST. As always, this is a result of Spain being in the 'wrong' time zone, with DST all-year round... and double DST in the Summer. In my 'forum time' this is 12:41 PM PDT (I should be using Mountain time right now, but since as of this post Big Rig Steve is in Arizona which doesn't observe DST, I use Pacific time to get the correct hour).

Who is "Big Rig Steve" and why are you so obsessed with him?

[kalvado]

obsolete since electric lights became commonplace in homes and businesses.

ie pretty much it was brought in, for basically the reason it came in.

"if we have it light later in summer, we'll use less electricity lighting homes in the evening" was a key argument for DST.

Which was a good argument until LEDs came to the rescue.
Another reason I heard - and it makes a little bit more sense - DST reduces peak power consumption around switch dates, allowing power plants to be taken offline for maintenance between winter and AC season. Although graphs which came along with that statement didn't show too much of an effect.