Northway Exit 3 Project

[Rothman]

Something weird was going on along Albany-Shaker this morning.  Both ramps to and from I-87 SB were closed at 9:30.  By noon, they were open.

[cl94]

I'm looking forward to using that new SB ramp. Getting to the airport from the Northway could be an absolute biatch.

[Rothman]

I really didn't find it that problematic and think the money could have been better used elsewhere.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[kalvado]

I really didn't find it that problematic and think the money could have been better used elsewhere.

(personal opinion emphasized)

I prefer the airport exit to a handful of roundabouts, thank you.

[Jim]

As I was waiting this afternoon at the light on the west side of the Albany-Shaker Road underpass, I looked up to my left to see this for the first time:



Sorry about the poor quality, I only had my iPad handy and the sun was in about as bad a position as it could be.

[Rothman]

I really didn't find it that problematic and think the money could have been better used elsewhere.

(personal opinion emphasized)

I prefer the airport exit to a handful of roundabouts, thank you.

There weren't any roundabouts as was, except one on NY 155 that no one needed to take to get to the airport from I-87.

[webny99]

I really didn't find it that problematic and think the money could have been better used elsewhere.
(personal opinion emphasized)

I prefer the airport exit to a handful of roundabouts, thank you.

There weren't any roundabouts as was, except one on NY 155 that no one needed to take to get to the airport from I-87.

I think the point was that this project is a good use of funds compared to the Malta roundabouts.
(Presumably you had something else in mind for how the funds should be better used...)

[Rothman]

Heh.  I heard NYSDOT's Operations head complain in a presentation at a conference about the Malta roundabouts as they were being built (he was something of a character).

I wasn't really in tune to what got the Malta roundabouts done back then, so I really don't know if they were a good use of money or not.  However, given the pavement and bridge needs in the area, I do wonder about the use of funds for Exit 3.

(personal opinion expressed)

[kalvado]

Heh.  I heard NYSDOT's Operations head complain in a presentation at a conference about the Malta roundabouts as they were being built (he was something of a character).

I wasn't really in tune to what got the Malta roundabouts done back then, so I really don't know if they were a good use of money or not.  However, given the pavement and bridge needs in the area, I do wonder about the use of funds for Exit 3.

(personal opinion expressed)

You assume those money would otherwise be used for maintenance. I suspect that those money are new construction, and would buy just a few more circular holes on a map Choosing between exit 3 and new roundabouts, choice is crystal clear. And since Malta lost appetite for those, now one is being slammed onto Cliffton park. Judging from traffic counts, it would quickly become a hot spot... Lets complain about those funds first!

[Rothman]

That's not how funding at NYSDOT works.  The money that went towards Exit 3 could have been used for MbCs, bridge rehabs/repairs -- any number of capital projects.  "Maintenance" projects that are not considered capital represent a smaller, much more narrow set of work types at NYSDOT.  Although Maintenance has sucked some capital funding its way, the fact of the matter is that these Exit 3 funds could have been used for any other project on the NHS or NHPP eligible facilities in Region 1.

[kalvado]

That's not how funding at NYSDOT works.  The money that went towards Exit 3 could have been used for MbCs, bridge rehabs/repairs -- any number of capital projects.  "Maintenance" projects that are not considered capital represent a smaller, much more narrow set of work types at NYSDOT.  Although Maintenance has sucked some capital funding its way, the fact of the matter is that these Exit 3 funds could have been used for any other project on the NHS or NHPP eligible facilities in Region 1.

Do you think those funds would be allocated to R1, to begin with, if not for the exit?
My impression is that exit is a consolation prize to upstate for big downstate projects - Daddy's Bridge (although here main beneficiary can be disputed), LGA, promised bus station, planned train station upgrade. Possibly another high visibility project would be OK, but it had to be something for the governor to brag about.

[Rothman]

That's not how funding at NYSDOT works.  The money that went towards Exit 3 could have been used for MbCs, bridge rehabs/repairs -- any number of capital projects.  "Maintenance" projects that are not considered capital represent a smaller, much more narrow set of work types at NYSDOT.  Although Maintenance has sucked some capital funding its way, the fact of the matter is that these Exit 3 funds could have been used for any other project on the NHS or NHPP eligible facilities in Region 1.

Do you think those funds would be allocated to R1, to begin with, if not for the exit?
My impression is that exit is a consolation prize to upstate for big downstate projects - Daddy's Bridge (although here main beneficiary can be disputed), LGA, promised bus station, planned train station upgrade. Possibly another high visibility project would be OK, but it had to be something for the governor to brag about.

Heh.  Fair enough. 

Even if the funds flowed back into the Main Office's purview, there are plenty of worthwhile projects that fall into this kind of category (Kosciuszko Bridge replacement, I-690 at Teall in Syracuse, etc.).  Doesn't change the fact that the money spent on Exit 3 could have gone towards pressing needs in just preserving the system -- rather than a not-very-urgent reconfiguration.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[kalvado]

That's not how funding at NYSDOT works.  The money that went towards Exit 3 could have been used for MbCs, bridge rehabs/repairs -- any number of capital projects.  "Maintenance" projects that are not considered capital represent a smaller, much more narrow set of work types at NYSDOT.  Although Maintenance has sucked some capital funding its way, the fact of the matter is that these Exit 3 funds could have been used for any other project on the NHS or NHPP eligible facilities in Region 1.

Do you think those funds would be allocated to R1, to begin with, if not for the exit?
My impression is that exit is a consolation prize to upstate for big downstate projects - Daddy's Bridge (although here main beneficiary can be disputed), LGA, promised bus station, planned train station upgrade. Possibly another high visibility project would be OK, but it had to be something for the governor to brag about.

Heh.  Fair enough. 

Even if the funds flowed back into the Main Office's purview, there are plenty of worthwhile projects that fall into this kind of category (Kosciuszko Bridge replacement, I-690 at Teall in Syracuse, etc.).  Doesn't change the fact that the money spent on Exit 3 could have gone towards pressing needs in just preserving the system -- rather than a not-very-urgent reconfiguration.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Is Kosciuszko bridge replacement even on the horizon? There was a significant amount of deck work a few years back, I assume that means bridge will be kept as-is for a while.

[vdeane]

I think he means the NYC Kosciuszko bridge (you know, that one that's actually called that by regular people), which was recently replaced.  The other project mentioned (I-690 over Teall) is also recent construction.

[kalvado]

I think he means the NYC Kosciuszko bridge (you know, that one that's actually called that by regular people), which was recently replaced.  The other project mentioned (I-690 over Teall) is also recent construction.

NYC bridge wouldn't fit into "consolation prize for upstate" category...

[vdeane]

He was talking about the Main Office funding of regional projects category, not "consolation prize for upstate".  NYSDOT's project budget is split by region, with some money skimmed off the top and put in a Main Office pool to be given out for large projects that would otherwise be difficult for the regions to fund (like the Patroon Island Bridge project, which otherwise would have been about an entire year's budget for R1).

[webny99]

I was not even aware until now that the Twin Bridges have an official name.
I can't speak as being from the area, but my preference would be for 8-laning those bridges ahead of the current Exit 3 project.

[Rothman]

I think the curves are more of a problem than the bridges, but we're getting off track.

[vdeane]

Not to mention the huge merge NB at exit 7 and SB at exits 8, 8A, and 9.  The fact that the bridge has narrow shoulders and arch structures doesn't help.  I don't understand curve issues (they can be taken at 60 mph easily enough), but something similar happens on I-590/NY 590 at the can of worms, so it seems like people can be intimidated by them.

Regarding exit 3, there was more paving done by yesterday, a couple more signs installed, and the retaining wall looks more finished.

[kalvado]

Not to mention the huge merge NB at exit 7 and SB at exits 8, 8A, and 9.  The fact that the bridge has narrow shoulders and arch structures doesn't help.  I don't understand curve issues (they can be taken at 60 mph easily enough), but something similar happens on I-590/NY 590 at the can of worms, so it seems like people can be intimidated by them.

Regarding exit 3, there was more paving done by yesterday, a couple more signs installed, and the retaining wall looks more finished.

Thinking about it, looks like widening to 2x4 lanes is assumed by the recent projects - overpass replacement at exit 4, SPUI.. It makes total sense to widen up to exit 9 or so, widening up to the bridge will only make things worse.   Bridge is a strong bottleneck, apparently.
I don't think curves are the issue; 80 is pretty easy in a car. Exit merges are what kills it.   

[Snappyjack]

As far as I am aware, the bridges are exactly what is blocking a widening. There have been talks about it for years, but it's never gone through with due to the cost of replacing them. As far as Region 1 is concerned, it's not an issue they are willing to tackle any time soon.

[vdeane]

In other news, more SB signage for exit 4 has been installed (it's currently covered up, and likely will be for a little while).  Grading is underway for the new SB exit 5 on ramp.  Meanwhile, the retaining wall by the flyover is looking more complete, and the mound of dirt next to it is looking less like a mound and more like a soon to be landscaped slope.

[vdeane]

The wow starts now.
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Work-on-Northway-Exit-3-nearly-complete-14814062.php

[Jim]

I can say that the this morning's rush hour NB lane closure around the new Exit 3 ramp was not fun.  I'm glad it was for final prep to open the ramp.

The lane markings around the end of the new ramps at Albany-Shaker are much more clear as of yesterday.  It was nearly impossible to figure out where you were supposed to be going with the temp markings that were out there.  No matter what, it will be a dangerous free-for-all when those markings become snow-covered (possibly within the next 48 hours) and no one's used to the new traffic pattern yet.

I am a little concerned that the left turn lane for Albany-Shaker WB to Northway SB is pretty small and will frequently back up into the left through lane on Albany-Shaker WB.

[vdeane]

I feel like my evening commute has been revolutionized.  Today's drive home was the smoothest I've ever had, not including days where I left work early.  Everything was flowing freely south of exit 6.