Seat Belts on School Busses

[DaBigE]

So one of our legislators in Wisconsin is proposing that all new school busses should be required to have seat belts. Article here What says the roadgeek community? Given that school busses are already designed to higher standards, is it a waste of money? If you have this kind of requirement in your area, how well is it working? How do you enforce this amongst 72 occasionally rowdy passengers?

Side discussion related to school busses and the state of Wisconsin--I wish they would join the other 49 states and have red and yellow lights in the upper corners. Maybe another Wisconsin roadgeek knows the rationale, but I've never understood why Wisconsin only allows red lights in the corners (oddly, WI MVC does allow the extra lights to be installed, however, they must have red lenses/LEDs until the time in which the code is changed).

[mgk920]

One word here - 'Bullies'.

I was the kind who had I been a daily school bus user, there would have been plenty of ne'er-do-well classmates who would have been more than ready and willing to use them as weapons against me.

Mike

[Brandon]

No, IMHO, it is not a waste of money.  All school buses should have seat belts and the passengers should be required to use them.  I always felt unsafe on school buses during my school days due to the lack of them.  If seat belts were good enough for my parents' car (in which we always buckled up), they were good enough for the school bus.

[hotdogPi]

Where I live, buses that have 8 seats have seatbelts, but the longer ones that have 24 seats don't have them*. They should have them though, otherwise people will be walking around.

*The very front row of a 24-seat bus has seatbelts, but only the very front row.

[US81]

Seat belts are not an effective addition to most school buses. Improperly fitted / aligned seat belts can cause significant injury, including abdominal organ rupture and spinal cord injury. The flat seats that most buses have would allow most children to "submarine" under the seat belt and not effectively restrain them.

There are lots of engineering/mechanical reasons that pediatric traumatologists are not advocating for school buses to have seat belts.

Edited to add:
The above is simply a brief presentation of the "conventional wisdom."  There is definitely some controversy out there, and I'm certain there are ways to build in and add safety to school buses. The cynical part of me is equally certain that some cite "safety" concerns when what they really have are "money" concerns. I would love for some engineers or some traumatologists to "weigh in."

[hm insulators]

One word here - 'Bullies'.

I was the kind who had I been a daily school bus user, there would have been plenty of ne'er-do-well classmates who would have been more than ready and willing to use them as weapons against me.

Mike

That's one of the main reasons. Those heavy metal buckles on straps would be great weapons.

[JREwing78]

There's a reason they're not already required; they're not necessary. So says NHTSA. http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Seat+Belts/Seat+Belts+on+School+Buses+--+May+2006

[Brandon]

One word here - 'Bullies'.

I was the kind who had I been a daily school bus user, there would have been plenty of ne'er-do-well classmates who would have been more than ready and willing to use them as weapons against me.

Mike

That's one of the main reasons. Those heavy metal buckles on straps would be great weapons.

Yes, great for smacking bullies back in the head with.  I never took any shit from them as a kid.  The best way to deal with a bully was to beat the shit out of him and tell them to fuck off.

[US81]

Another consideration would be the anchor points of the seat belt. When the anchor points are wide enough for adults - say high-school students and some junior-high kids - an elementary-school-aged child is not sufficiently restrained and is at risk of "submarining" under the seat belt rather than being restrained by the seat belt. This is the reason that booster seats are required/recommended for children under 8-12 years old, under 36-40 kg in weight and/or less than 48-50 inches tall. So, it might not be easy to find configurations that would have the capacity, versatility and safety for the varying ages (sizes) of students.

[Molandfreak]

The bus companies always try to cram three kids in a seat, too. Seatbelts would make that problem worse.

[mgk920]

One word here - 'Bullies'.

I was the kind who had I been a daily school bus user, there would have been plenty of ne'er-do-well classmates who would have been more than ready and willing to use them as weapons against me.

Mike

That's one of the main reasons. Those heavy metal buckles on straps would be great weapons.

Yes, great for smacking bullies back in the head with.  I never took any shit from them as a kid.  The best way to deal with a bully was to beat the shit out of him and tell them to fuck off.

And whenever I tried doing that, I would get the never-ending detentions and the bullies *always* got off scot-free.  It got so bad that my parents ended up having to pull me out of the local government schools after the 8th grade and enroll me in a local Catholic H.S.  Had they not done that, I would have likely have had to drop out for my own safety by about sometime in my sophomore year.



Mike

[Brandon]

^^ They tried that to me.  My parents stepped in and threatened them with a lawsuit as I was defending myself.  The school dropped their bullshit.  On the second one, I got punched in the face on the way back from the bus stop in high school.  We called the police, much to the chagrin of the school district who wanted to handle it internally.  This one got frog-marched out of the school cafeteria to the applause of the other students.  he got years of community service afterward.

[jeffandnicole]

All new New Jersey school buses have had seatbelts for many years now.  For the most part, the seat belts are rarely used, and that's clearly seen by anyone traveling behind a school bus.

I'm sure there's many parents that send their children on these buses, thinking their angel is using them all the time. And I'm sure a few do, but largely they do not.  School students are supposed to wear them, but a bus driver isn't about to delay their route for infinity to verify everyone has a seatbelt on.

[agentsteel53]

And whenever I tried doing that, I would get the never-ending detentions and the bullies *always* got off scot-free. 

the one time I absolutely whaled on a bully, we both got in-school suspension.  we sat at the same table for three days.  he complained about how much his stitches hurt (I basically knocked his lips into his braces), and I silently glared at him for three days.

sometimes a "too weird to fuck with" reputation is quite helpful, especially in the 7th grade.  (in other news, fuck 7th grade.)

[kkt]

And whenever I tried doing that, I would get the never-ending detentions and the bullies *always* got off scot-free. 

the one time I absolutely whaled on a bully, we both got in-school suspension.  we sat at the same table for three days.  he complained about how much his stitches hurt (I basically knocked his lips into his braces), and I silently glared at him for three days.

sometimes a "too weird to fuck with" reputation is quite helpful, especially in the 7th grade.  (in other news, fuck 7th grade.)

My daughter is on Week Two of 7th grade.  I hope she has better luck.  I gather the fairer sex has other, less physical but just as painful ways of fucking with each other.

[Molandfreak]

Jeez, does every roadgeek have a bully story? In sixth grade, I gave an eighth grader a bloody nose for repeatedly hacking my email (the school didn't do shit to help me with this problem).

[agentsteel53]

My daughter is on Week Two of 7th grade.  I hope she has better luck.  I gather the fairer sex has other, less physical but just as painful ways of fucking with each other.

honestly, I'm the last person to ask.  I noticed girls as early as the 4th or so grade when the standard biological stirrings decided to point me to "guess what, you're heterosexual!" - but I didn't talk to them much 'til about 10th.  so I couldn't tell you how they operate in 7th.

it can probably be shown that I haven't escaped loser status even to this day (age 32) but I think I was better than median popularity by about 11th.

(so, fuck everything before ~10th-11th grade?  seems like that's when a critical mass of people have their shit together and one can choose to learn from them.)

[Big John]

7th grade.  Was getting bullied everywhere, and it was in vogue to always blame the victim, as they "did something to deserve it".   

For the bus situation, there was public transit that stopped in front of the school, but the bus schedule had it a couple of minutes before the school day ended.  But the vice principal saw what was going on and ordered the teacher in my last class to let me out early so I could catch that bus so I wouldn't get tortured on the school bus. (This was after I decided to walk home from school one day to avoid the bullies and it was deemed too far for me to walk.)

[vdeane]

Jeez, does every roadgeek have a bully story? In sixth grade, I gave an eighth grader a bloody nose for repeatedly hacking my email (the school didn't do shit to help me with this problem).

No idea, but I was bullied all the way through middle school as well.  It's probably the reason why I have a hard time dealing with people to this day.  I have trust issues and am NOT comfortable around people I don't know.

[Thing 342]

My school district did a pretty good job of cracking down on bullying, but I still hated 6th and 7th grade.

[mgk920]

And whenever I tried doing that, I would get the never-ending detentions and the bullies *always* got off scot-free. 

the one time I absolutely whaled on a bully, we both got in-school suspension.  we sat at the same table for three days.  he complained about how much his stitches hurt (I basically knocked his lips into his braces), and I silently glared at him for three days.

sometimes a "too weird to fuck with" reputation is quite helpful, especially in the 7th grade.  (in other news, fuck 7th grade.)

My daughter is on Week Two of 7th grade.  I hope she has better luck.  I gather the fairer sex has other, less physical but just as painful ways of fucking with each other.

In many ways, females are far worse than the guys, as while males generally resort to physical violence and little else beyond that, females typically go straight for the psychological jugulars - and are merciless while so doing.

I wish her luck.

Mike

[Zeffy]

Jeez, does every roadgeek have a bully story? In sixth grade, I gave an eighth grader a bloody nose for repeatedly hacking my email (the school didn't do shit to help me with this problem).

I don't - I was never picked on (at least to the point I would call it bullying) nor did I pick on anyone. (unless they were unaware - I don't say things to people directly to their face, if they don't know about it I consider it not to be bullying.)

[agentsteel53]

(unless they were unaware - I don't say things to people directly to their face, if they don't know about it I consider it not to be bullying.)

I think that might still count.

Zeffy: "hey Bob, I hear Tony is a devil worshipper"
Bob: "interesting point, I will not speak of it to anyone"

Bob, later: "hey, Tony, you're a devil worshipper!  I mean hi."

[ET21]

I can thank dodgeball for getting bullies off my back. I could never get back at them, would always get in trouble.

Then came the awesome day of dodgeball in gym. I was one of the better dodgers, but was never known for an arm. Being one of the last 3 against 1 during the game, I took a ball, whipped it, and hit him square in the face hard. Nose bleeding, he just stared back at me, and I just shrugged.

Little off-topic, but that's my bully story

[Alps]

I wasn't a bus rider, but for field trips or team buses, etc., they all had seatbelts. Very few kids wore them.