Old Cars. thoughts?

[SP Cook]

IMHO, the saying "when you buy a used car, you buy someone else's problem" is generally true.

While there are exceptions and situations, I have always bought a new car and run it until the wheels fall off, and replace it with another new car.  I don't trade more than once a decade, but every mile put on the car, I put on it.  I know that my standards have been met, and I know, at least for half of that ownership, that all repairs are covered.

That said, my next car will be, unless something unforeseen happens, a used truck.  I plan on retiring and relocating, and a POS pickup truck will be useful in disposing of 35 years of accumulated crap and will be OK for a daily driver for a year or so, but I have no desire to own one long term.  I will replace that with another brand new car, with a new car warranty, which I will keep serviced to my standards, which will probably last longer than I will.

[wxfree]

IMHO, the saying "when you buy a used car, you buy someone else's problem" is generally true.

While there are exceptions and situations, I have always bought a new car and run it until the wheels fall off, and replace it with another new car.  I don't trade more than once a decade, but every mile put on the car, I put on it.  I know that my standards have been met, and I know, at least for half of that ownership, that all repairs are covered.

That, to me, is the only way buying a new car makes sense.  Unless you have money to burn, it makes no sense to buy new cars and keep them for short periods of time.  Buying a new car and keeping it for as long as it reliably goes is a good option, especially for someone who drives a lot of miles.

[corco]

As far as renting a car...an hour is a gross exaggeration. It takes usually 15-20 minutes to pick up a car if you find a rental car place on your way. I'm assuming that's easier in New York than it is in Montana.

That's assuming I drive to somewhere, leave my car there, and then take the rental the rest of the way... which I suppose could work, the issue then would be parking.

I'm assuming I'd be not touching my car at all and taking the bus to the rental place... which takes about half an hour and cuts nothing off my driving time to wherever I'm going.

Actually...heh, I assumed it would be easier in New York than Montana, but when I think about it...you're right, it's probably easier in Montana- I just drive until I hit the first podunk airport with a rental car facility (general Butte if heading east, Great Falls if going north, Idaho Falls/Butte if going south...heading west there aren't any good options...Spokane is too far, there's nowhere to leave my car in Coeur d'Alene, and Missoula has terrible rental rates), rent a car, and leave my car at the airport for what are usually very low parking fees. When I was in Arizona and Wyoming, there was a rental car place within reasonable walking distance of my apartment, so that was convenient. If you don't have that....I can see where it would be more complicated/more expensive in New York. I can see why you'd be more hesitant to do it.

[Stratuscaster]

I believe I'm in the "own old, rent for a trip" camp. As my vehicles age, the suitability for longer trips diminishes.

That said, I did a trip in July from Chicagoland to Detroit and back in my '00 Olds Intrigue with 187000 miles and it went without a problem - even got 33MPG doing it. 2 months later and I'm in need of replacing the failed water pump.

That said, we took my father's '97 Chevy Silverado pickup with 250000 miles from Chicagoland to Hoxie, AR and back - only failure was the cruise control which made much of the drive a bit fatiguing (turns out we didn't have any brake lights either - the brake light switch was the culprit for BOTH problems.)

I'm not sure If I would trust my '02 Caravan with 421000 miles on anything more than a 3 hour trip.

[Takumi]

The newer of my two cars has already had the engine redone; it has about 50,000 on it. The older one has 173,000 on the block (less on the head) and has an oil leak somewhere in the bottom end, but the engine is arguably the strongest Honda has ever made, with examples routinely going over 400,000 miles. It isn't my daily driver, and I plan on either putting a more powerful engine in it or rebuilding and turbocharging the one in it now, and with the stiff suspension it wouldn't be that great for long trips.

[DaBigE]

I'm in the camp of buying new, paying it off as soon as I can, and driving it as long as possible (until the repair cost surpasses the value of the vehicle), all while making sure it's maintained to my [high] standards. As someone else already mentioned, there is a comfort in knowing how ever mile and repair was completed. Seeing how others drive and hearing how poorly maintained some of my acquaintance's vehicles are makes me cringe at the thought of most used cars. My last/first car I had for the first 8 years and 105K+ miles of its life. The only reason I sold it was because I needed something with a bit more room and wanted a bit more comfort. I have no doubts it could have easily seen more than double that mileage before any major repairs would have been required.

The one thing you cannot forget, regardless of age, cars will break down no matter how well you [think] its maintained. Manufacturing processes aren't perfect. I still  routinely see new(er) cars broke down on the side of the road. Just the other month, I passed a fairly new Porsche that was on the side of the interstate...smoking. A couple weeks later, I broke down and had to be towed. Without warning (and due to a manufacturing defect), my throttle body went out, at 40K miles.

The other thing to keep in mind is that there has to be someone buying the new cars otherwise there won't be any used cars to buy.

[Duke87]

When I was in Arizona and Wyoming, there was a rental car place within reasonable walking distance of my apartment, so that was convenient. If you don't have that....I can see where it would be more complicated/more expensive in New York. I can see why you'd be more hesitant to do it.

Interesting what happens when I actually look into it. My prior basis was assuming I'd have to go to La Guardia Airport to get a rental car. Turns out there's a couple of small places withing a 15 minute walk from my apartment.

Of course, they both close at the end of the normal business day during the week (5 PM for one, 6 for the other) and have very scant weekend hours (one is closed entirely on Sunday, the other closes at noon). That... renders both of them very difficult to use for roadgeeking purposes. So yeah, we're back to having to go to La Guardia, where everything is open 24/7...

[place-saint-henri]

anyone here drive a Volvo?

[1995hoo]

anyone here drive a Volvo?

I don't own one, but my mother has driven Volvos since 1972 and I've driven a number of hers on an occasional basis now and then. What do you want to know? In terms of Volvo durability, it's certainly not unheard-of....do a Google search for the name "Irv Gordon" from East Patchogue, New York.

[bugo]

anyone here drive a Volvo?

Crazyvolvoguy drives at least one Volvo.  Cool guy too.  I've met him a couple of times.

[agentsteel53]

I usually go through about one car a year.  buy around 120K, find some incurable problem at 170K. 

the fact that I do a lot of driving for business (55.5c/mile over 40,000 miles a year) really skews the mathematics in favor of an older, reliable car which I pay an initial investment of $3000 into, and then figure another $3000 in repairs over its lifetime. 

[Brandon]

I'm in the "buy new, keep for 10+ years and few hundred thousand miles" category.  My parents do the same thing, and I can count the number of cars we've had since they got married on two hands (between them and me).  My current car is over two years old and has 75,000 miles.  I plan to keep it for at least another eight years.  That might get it up to 500,000 miles or so by the time I get rid of it.  Hell, it might be fun to see if I can get the odometer to roll over at 999,999 miles. 

As it is, it is still on the OEM clutch and brakes.  I'd like to see if I can beat the 1981 Dodge Aries's (parents' third car, second bough new) record of 95,000 miles before having to replace the front brakes.  That one went 120,000 miles before we had to replace the rear brakes.  So far, I've had to replace the OEM struts and tires, and that's about it.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

My two cars are 23 and 29 years old, with 240,000 and 180,000 miles respectively.  (Yes, the younger one has more miles, and is the one in my avatar.  Larger version of avatar pic here.)

Granted, I don't drive them much anymore...but I am quite happy with both of them.

[PHLBOS]

With AAA Plus I get the 100 miles of towing, hence the 70-mile distance.

IIRC, the next step up, AAA Premium, offers 250 miles of towing.  That's what I presently have; which covers most of my trips.

Want to go with the Blue Oval?  Crown Vics and their cousin cars (Grand Marquis, Town Car) with the 4.6 and body on frame construction have a proven track record for durability.  That's why so many of them got used in police, government and taxi service!

My '97 Crown Vic was my first brand new car I ever bought.  I picked it up on Nov. of 1996 (as a factory order, I wanted the Handling & Performance Pacakge (HPP) but not the digital instrumentation that the "lot" HPP models had) and still own it today at 142k. 

MPG's in the high 20's are easy to deal with too.

For the base single-exhaust variants, yes; the HPP package, the dual-exhaust or the Police Interceptor Package variants, no.  At best, I was able to get 24 mpg on an all-highway run. 

OTOH, my brother rented two Crown Vics. (one a '94 and the other a 2002 model; both w/the standard single exhaust) and got 28 mpg on all-highway runs.

Whichever car you choose, you will get full-sized comfort and a big trunk, both essentials for road trips.  These cars will easily surpass 200K on the clock.  Since they are not "hot" and popular, you get a whole lotta mobility for your moolah.  Plenty of older folks get them new.  They are the kind of buyers who don't tear a rig up, they maintain them well and the mileage per year is usually lower.  That combined with depreciation makes a car with that kind of start out of the gate as good a combination of factors as one could want.

In the case of the Panther, prices of used ones have gone up a bit due to the platform being discontinued nearly 2 years ago and due to the fact that many of them sadly fell victim to that stupid-a#* Cash For Clunkers program that took place a few years ago.

4.6 and other FoMoCo engines from 1997 to 2001 had a plastic intake manifold (as I remember).  Some were replaced under a manufacturer's recall.  Check to see what's up before hitting the Buy button.

My '97 fell victim to such on a Thanksgiving trip to Massachusetts several years ago.  Fortunately, it happened while I was staying at my mother's on a short trip vs. en route from the Delaware Valley.

I limped the car, while staying at my mother's, to a garage near where she lived and got it fixed for about $800.  I lost a day of work due to the repair delaying my return trip by a day. 

With regards to the intake manifold recall/class-action suit (which I believe only covered the '92-'97 models); I received notice of such about 6 months after I replaced my manifold.  Based on the information written, because my repair took place about 6 months to a year after the listed period eligible for a repair reimbursement; I was not entitled to a reimbursement.  Needless to say, I wasn't too pleased.

Fortunately, most of my other repairs/maintenance done on the car since then weren't that costly.

Since I bought my 2007 Mustang convertible (as an '07 left-over, it now has 59k on it), that car usually gets more of the warm weather action than my Crown Vic.

Since I work in Philly & take the train (SEPTA's Media/Elwyn line aka the old R3); neither car gets much commuter action.

I've attended 4 meets since 2012 and used both cars for such (Mustang for Doylestown, PA & Portsmouth, NH; Crown Vic. for Monticello, NY & Brick, NJ) with no issues; granted, the meet locations were no more than a day's drive one-way for me.

[bugo]

The idiotic Cash for Clunkers program caused lots of collectible cars to be destroyed, including a Taurus SHO.  If the government weren't so stupid and stubborn, they could have sold those cars to collectors and made way more money than they made junking them.  Besides Bengazi, Obama will be remembered as the Cash for Clunkers president and the president who killed Pontiac, Saturn, and Hummer (I won't miss the last marque, but Pontiac was an American icon and outsold Buick, which stuck around because of its popularity in China (I'm tired of America being sold out to China.))

[Scott5114]

Without going into politics, I am pretty sure the vast majority of history books will treat Cash for Clunkers as no more than a footnote in his administration, if at all. It certainly won't be something he'll be "remembered" for.

[bugo]

One thing I hate about new cars is the fact that 2 door cars are nearly extinct.  Ford makes a single two door car, the Mustang.  The two companies that are so far sticking with 2 door cars are BMW and Honda.  Another thing that is becoming extinct is the manual transmission.  These newfangled dual clutch transmissions are NOT manuals and are NOT substitutes for a proper manual with a clutch.  Is it too much to ask for a 2 door coupe with good handling, FWD for good traction in bad weather, and a 6 speed manual?  Back in the early '90s, nearly every manufacturer made a sporty coupe.  Not now.  Not everyone wants a 4 door car.  I like some of them, but I'd rather have two doors.  I like the looks better, it's easier for me to get in and out of with the long doors, and I like the fact that criminals can't jump into the back seat and rob you.  I don't have a family, don't have kids, and rarely carry more than one passenger, so a 2 door car makes sense for me. 

[bugo]

Without going into politics, I am pretty sure the vast majority of history books will treat Cash for Clunkers as no more than a footnote in his administration, if at all. It certainly won't be something he'll be "remembered" for.

"History books" usually paint presidential administrations in a positive light, even if the man was an awful president.  Look at how much love Ronald Reagan gets.  Obama will be remembered for being the first black president and for Obamacare (if it is successful).

[Takumi]

Is it too much to ask for a 2 door coupe with good handling, FWD for good traction in bad weather, and a 6 speed manual?

You're pretty much limited to the Honda Civic Si coupe, then.

[bugo]

Is it too much to ask for a 2 door coupe with good handling, FWD for good traction in bad weather, and a 6 speed manual?

You're pretty much limited to the Honda Civic Si coupe, then.

Or used cars.  That's probably what I'll end up doing, is buying a nice used coupe. 

Another car that has basically gone extinct is the two door sedan.  This was a very popular body style in the '50s and '60s but I can't think of a single one being built today.  The two door hardtop would be extinct except for the fact that Mercedes builds one.  I don't get the point, because if I had a Benzo, I would run the A/C during the summer and I would rarely roll the windows down, negating the advantages of having no B pillar.

Don't get me started on "automated manuals", "brands", and "four door coupes".

[Scott5114]

Without going into politics, I am pretty sure the vast majority of history books will treat Cash for Clunkers as no more than a footnote in his administration, if at all. It certainly won't be something he'll be "remembered" for.

"History books" usually paint presidential administrations in a positive light, even if the man was an awful president.  Look at how much love Ronald Reagan gets.  Obama will be remembered for being the first black president and for Obamacare (if it is successful).

I don't know. They don't treat Nixon too kindly, and only rarely will you see presidents like James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Ulysses S. Grant, and Warren G. Harding portrayed positively.

I think it's still too early to tell what history will ultimately say about Reagan. Though it was thirty years ago, it's only recently that we were able to begin judging some of the long-term effects of his administration. You can only really get a fair assessment of an administration when enough time has passed that the author is not biased by the president's decisions affecting them directly.

[PHLBOS]

Is it too much to ask for a 2 door coupe with good handling, FWD for good traction in bad weather, and a 6 speed manual?

You're pretty much limited to the Honda Civic Si coupe, then.

Kia makes a coupe version of its Forte model called the Koup; it's styled like a poor-man's Audi profile-wise.  Hyundai just recently launched a coupe version of its Elantra model.

The last small domestic-branded coupes were the 2010 Ford Focus (the sedans continued into 2011 in its old form) and the Chevy Cobalt (since replaced by the Cruze sedan) and Pontiac G5 & G6 (which died along with the brand).

[Brandon]

I like the fact that criminals can't jump into the back seat and rob you. 

Then why even get a passenger side door?

Seriously though, that's Hollywood.  In real life, you're more likely to have a carjacker approach your driver's side door (regardless of it being two or four doors) or try to enter through the front passenger side door.  There's also these new-fangled things we like to call "locks" on the doors.  If you don't want someone opening the door, lock it.

[PHLBOS]

Another car that has basically gone extinct is the two door sedan.  This was a very popular body style in the '50s and '60s but I can't think of a single one being built today.

Actually, by the 70s; many referred to any 2-door model as a coupe; regardless of whether it was a sedan, fastback, hardtop or pillared hardtop.

The last domestic full-size RWD coupes (or 2-door sedans) made were the 1987 Ford (LTD) Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Chevy Caprice and Cadillac Brougham. 

Lincoln's last Town Coupe was the 1981 model (2nd year it was downsized to the Panther platform) and the last full-size (though downsized) Continental Mark series (coupe & sedan) was the 1983 Mark VI.

Smaller, FWD full-size 2-doors bit the dust in the early 1990s; with the '93 Cadillac Coupe DeVille being the final one.  The Eldorados & Buick Rivieras from 1979-on were considered to be mid-size coupes.

Domestic mid-size coupes that were not part of the personal-luxury coupe vein mostly died off in the early-to-mid 1980s.  The '98 Lincoln Mark VIII was the last domestic RWD-based mid-size personal-luxury coupe and the 2002 Cadillac Eldorado was the last domestic FWD-based mid-size personal-luxury coupe.

Most compact coupes (domestic & import) bit the dust in the 1990s; same with subcompact coupes.
_____________________
In the case of the demise of standard 2-door sedans; the reasoning for such was probably due to the fact that their 4-door counterparts in later years were equipped w/child-proof rear-door locks as standard equipment.  Previously, one main selling point for a standard 2-door car was that it was a great car for families w/small children (no doors in rear); a consumer-tip publication back in the 70s and 80s indeed listed the above ver-batim.

Once child-proof rear-door locks became standard across-the-board; families w/small children simply opted for the 4-door models and the 2-door sedan market started to dry up.

[Duke87]

Another car that has basically gone extinct is the two door sedan.

Eh? I thought by definition sedan = 4 door and coupe = 2 door.

If that's not it, then what's the difference?