Coronavirus pandemic

[hbelkins]

Regarding the abortion protests, there's a controversy ongoing in Kentucky about this. The governor has banned elective medical procedures under the terms of his emergency order. A number of people are upset that he's extended this prohibition to things like eye and dental exams, elective surgery, etc., but not elective abortions when the mother's life or health are not at risk. Some are even posting figures with the daily number of babies killed in Kentucky each day vs. virus fatalities. Others are saying that if the shortage of masks, gloves, and other medical equipment is as severe as some say it is, that equipment that is used for elective abortions could instead be used by medical personnel treating those infected by the virus. I know Planned Parenthood, ACLU, etc., have opposed such closures in other states, but it seems funny to me that an invented right such as abortion is upheld while actual enumerated rights such as the freedom of religion and freedom of assembly are being curtailed by executive order, and no one says a word.

[bandit957]

Regarding the abortion protests, there's a controversy ongoing in Kentucky about this. The governor has banned elective medical procedures under the terms of his emergency order. A number of people are upset that he's extended this prohibition to things like eye and dental exams, elective surgery, etc., but not elective abortions when the mother's life or health are not at risk. Some are even posting figures with the daily number of babies killed in Kentucky each day vs. virus fatalities. Others are saying that if the shortage of masks, gloves, and other medical equipment is as severe as some say it is, that equipment that is used for elective abortions could instead be used by medical personnel treating those infected by the virus. I know Planned Parenthood, ACLU, etc., have opposed such closures in other states, but it seems funny to me that an invented right such as abortion is upheld while actual enumerated rights such as the freedom of religion and freedom of assembly are being curtailed by executive order, and no one says a word.

The reasons behind all of this are complicated.

But they can't just prohibit all private gatherings. That would be unconstitutional. They'll do it, but it's not constitutional.

I heard that some church around here held services in the parking lot, and worshipers stayed in their cars. I'm sure that's allowable. The virus won't get into someone else's car from 100 feet away. A virus does what it can naturally do, and that's about it.

[kwellada]

It's just too bad that there are those out there who think "Constitutional Rights" allow their poor behavior.  The reality is that no one has the right to become a disease vector and infect others (which is essentially what those having large private gatherings are doing).  People right now should be adult and informed enough to realize they need to be proactive and smart about their activities, even if it's inconvenient or downright depressing (I'm in day 21 of my general isolation and my cats are getting sick of my conversation topics).  The US is leading the world in infections and there's very likely a correlation between that and "muh rights". 

[GaryV]

Michigan's Executive Order states:

Consistent with prior guidance, a place of religious worship, when used for religious worship, is not subject to penalty under section 14.

And that is immediately followed by a separation of powers statement:

Nothing in this order should be taken to interfere with or infringe on the powers of the legislative and judicial branches to perform their constitutional duties or exercise their authority.

EDIT: I agree with the above, the ability to do something because you have the right to do it, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[bandit957]

Some of these things are a matter of constitutional law.

[TravelingBethelite]

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

Great, now we're a "papers please" country.

We have been ever since our driver's licenses became Soviet-style "Internal Passports".

How long has it been like that?

[kalvado]

Some of these things are a matter of constitutional law.

One of those situations where there is no good solution.
Limiting basic constitutional rights by an executive order and for an extended period of time is an undesired precedent (to say hte least)
Allowing those rights to be exercised in epidemics is pretty stupid as well.
Asking people to cooperate? Not really going to work.

Martial law may be harsh, but much more clear way of doing things. In-between solutions are... what they are.

[US71]

So if the churches are allowed to remain open and someone gets the Corona virus, is it "God's Will"?

[LM117]

Florida has joined the "stay-at-home" club.

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/orders/2020/EO_20-91.pdf

[RobbieL2415]

Some of these things are a matter of constitutional law.

Here's the thing.

There is case law that affirms the government's right to quarantine someone.

There is no case law, AFIAK, that affirms the government's right to totally restrict freedom of movement outside of a time of war.

[RobbieL2415]

Some of these things are a matter of constitutional law.

One of those situations where there is no good solution.
Limiting basic constitutional rights by an executive order and for an extended period of time is an undesired precedent (to say hte least)
Allowing those rights to be exercised in epidemics is pretty stupid as well.
Asking people to cooperate? Not really going to work.

Martial law may be harsh, but much more clear way of doing things. In-between solutions are... what they are.

There's no provision in the Constitution to suspend it completely.

Habeus corpus can be suspended, but only by Congress and only in a time of war.

[jemacedo9]

Too idealistic and impossible to actually occur...but things would change real quick if people could be held criminally and/or civilly liable if it could be proven that their actions in defiance of these orders caused a specific spread of the virus that caused a death or permanent injury to someone else, including members of your own family.

Wanna go out and perform non-essential duties?  Have at it.  Further the spread?  See you in court.
Again, impossible to actually prove with solid evidence.

BUT...someone, somewhere, is going to attempt a lawsuit like this civilly if it hasn't occurred already.

[02 Park Ave]

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

Great, now we're a "papers please" country.

We have been ever since our driver's licenses became Soviet-style "Internal Passports".

How long has it been like that?

New Jersey started requiring photo driver's licenses in the early 1980's.  However they were so unpopular that the requirement was soon revoked.  However, beginning in 2004 the State made them mandatory.

[1995hoo]

Some of these things are a matter of constitutional law.

One of those situations where there is no good solution.
Limiting basic constitutional rights by an executive order and for an extended period of time is an undesired precedent (to say hte least)
Allowing those rights to be exercised in epidemics is pretty stupid as well.
Asking people to cooperate? Not really going to work.

Martial law may be harsh, but much more clear way of doing things. In-between solutions are... what they are.

There's no provision in the Constitution to suspend it completely.

Habeus corpus can be suspended, but only by Congress and only in a time of war.

Abraham Lincoln did it unilaterally anyway.

[02 Park Ave]

The two films most appropriate to view at this time would be:  Fahrenheit 451 and Dr. Strangelove.

When watching the latter checkout the similarities between Doctors Fauci and Strangelove.

You forgot Contagion (a more intense version of COVID-19)

Is there a good motion picture version of George Orwell's 1984?  That would be appropriate viewing for these times.

[Max Rockatansky]

The two films most appropriate to view at this time would be:  Fahrenheit 451 and Dr. Strangelove.

When watching the latter checkout the similarities between Doctors Fauci and Strangelove.

You forgot Contagion (a more intense version of COVID-19)

Is there a good motion picture version of George Orwell's 1984?  That would be appropriate viewing for these times.

Hence why the Pandemic Movie thread was made. 

[RobbieL2415]

The two films most appropriate to view at this time would be:  Fahrenheit 451 and Dr. Strangelove.

When watching the latter checkout the similarities between Doctors Fauci and Strangelove.

You forgot Contagion (a more intense version of COVID-19)

Is there a good motion picture version of George Orwell's 1984?  That would be appropriate viewing for these times.

I prefer Escape from New York.

[1995hoo]

Q: What is an Economic Stimulus payment?
A: It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

Q: Where will the government get this money?
A: From taxpayers.

Q: So the government is giving me back my own money?
A: Only a smidgen of it.

Q: What is the purpose of this payment?
A: The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high definition television set, a new iPad, or a new SUV, thus stimulating the economy.

Q: Isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A: Shut up.


Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the U. S. Economy with and your stimulus check wisely:

* If you spend the stimulus money at Walmart the money will go to China or Sri Lanka.
* if you spend it on gasoline, your money goes to the Arabs.
* if you purchase a computer, it goes to India, Taiwan or China.
* if you purchase fruits and vegetables, it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala.
* if you buy an efficient car, it will go to Japan or Korea.
* if you purchase useless stuff, it goes to Taiwan.
* if you pay your credit card off, or buy stock, it will go to the management bonuses and they will hide it offshore.

Instead keep the money in America by:

(1) Spending it at a yard sale, or
(2) Go to a ballgame, or
(3) Spend it on prostitutes, or
(4) Beer, or
(5) Tattoos
(These are the only American businesses still operating in the U.S.)

CONCLUSION: Go to a ballgame with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink beer all day. No need to thank me, I'm just glad I could be of help.

[bandit957]

Q: What is an Economic Stimulus payment?
A: It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

Q: Where will the government get this money?
A: From taxpayers.

Q: So the government is giving me back my own money?
A: Only a smidgen of it.

Q: What is the purpose of this payment?
A: The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high definition television set, a new iPad, or a new SUV, thus stimulating the economy.

Q: Isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A: Shut up.


Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the U. S. Economy with and your stimulus check wisely:

* If you spend the stimulus money at Walmart the money will go to China or Sri Lanka.
* if you spend it on gasoline, your money goes to the Arabs.
* if you purchase a computer, it goes to India, Taiwan or China.
* if you purchase fruits and vegetables, it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala.
* if you buy an efficient car, it will go to Japan or Korea.
* if you purchase useless stuff, it goes to Taiwan.
* if you pay your credit card off, or buy stock, it will go to the management bonuses and they will hide it offshore.

Instead keep the money in America by:

(1) Spending it at a yard sale, or
(2) Go to a ballgame, or
(3) Spend it on prostitutes, or
(4) Beer, or
(5) Tattoos
(These are the only American businesses still operating in the U.S.)

CONCLUSION: Go to a ballgame with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink beer all day. No need to thank me, I'm just glad I could be of help.

It would be hilarious if everyone spent it on bubble gum and blew the World's Biggest Bubble.

[RobbieL2415]

Q: What is an Economic Stimulus payment?
A: It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

Q: Where will the government get this money?
A: From taxpayers.

Q: So the government is giving me back my own money?
A: Only a smidgen of it.

Q: What is the purpose of this payment?
A: The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high definition television set, a new iPad, or a new SUV, thus stimulating the economy.

Q: Isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A: Shut up.


Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the U. S. Economy with and your stimulus check wisely:

* If you spend the stimulus money at Walmart the money will go to China or Sri Lanka.
* if you spend it on gasoline, your money goes to the Arabs.
* if you purchase a computer, it goes to India, Taiwan or China.
* if you purchase fruits and vegetables, it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala.
* if you buy an efficient car, it will go to Japan or Korea.
* if you purchase useless stuff, it goes to Taiwan.
* if you pay your credit card off, or buy stock, it will go to the management bonuses and they will hide it offshore.

Instead keep the money in America by:

(1) Spending it at a yard sale, or
(2) Go to a ballgame, or
(3) Spend it on prostitutes, or
(4) Beer, or
(5) Tattoos
(These are the only American businesses still operating in the U.S.)

CONCLUSION: Go to a ballgame with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a yard sale and drink beer all day. No need to thank me, I'm just glad I could be of help.

No.

* It goes directly to Walmart, who then orders more product at wholesale value.
* It goes directly to the gas station, which then buys more gas on a contract for a wholesale price.  Affiliated gas stations by affiliated fuel.  Oil companies aren't allowed to directly own gas stations.
* It goes to the company in that country.
* It goes to the grocery store, which then buys fruit at wholesale from a food distributor, like McLane.
* It goes to the dealership, which buys the cars from the manufacturer at a slim margin.
* Or other countries
* Credit card companies make their money off swipe fees, interest, and cardholder fees.  Stock is, for most of us, bought through a broker who then makes the order on the market on our behalf.

[Scott5114]

Q: What is an Economic Stimulus payment?
A: It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

Q: Where will the government get this money?
A: From taxpayers.

Q: So the government is giving me back my own money?
A: Only a smidgen of it.

Q: What is the purpose of this payment?
A: The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high definition television set, a new iPad, or a new SUV, thus stimulating the economy.

Q: Isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A: Shut up.

Dave Barry, is that you?

[Bruce]

In all likelihood, the payment will cover a bit of the rent due today for many Americans. And since this is a one-time payment instead of a monthly one (Canada is doing a four-month, $2K/mo program, for example), it is not going to be sufficient for those waiting for the unemployment queues to open up.

But hey, we've bailed out those poor and impoverished corporations again. USA! USA!

[Brandon]

Some of these things are a matter of constitutional law.

One of those situations where there is no good solution.
Limiting basic constitutional rights by an executive order and for an extended period of time is an undesired precedent (to say hte least)
Allowing those rights to be exercised in epidemics is pretty stupid as well.
Asking people to cooperate? Not really going to work.

Martial law may be harsh, but much more clear way of doing things. In-between solutions are... what they are.

There's no provision in the Constitution to suspend it completely.

Habeus corpus can be suspended, but only by Congress and only in a time of war.

Abraham Lincoln did it unilaterally anyway.

And he was afraid he'd be impeached for it at the end of the war.

[RobbieL2415]

In all likelihood, the payment will cover a bit of the rent due today for many Americans. And since this is a one-time payment instead of a monthly one (Canada is doing a four-month, $2K/mo program, for example), it is not going to be sufficient for those waiting for the unemployment queues to open up.

But hey, we've bailed out those poor and impoverished corporations again. USA! USA!

Its possible Congressional leaders push for more money to individual Americans.

And I wouldn't be so quick to assume big corporations have cash for days.  Some mega cap companies are cutting executive pay and dividends to shareholders to save up for the long haul.  Many have taking out huge lines of credit.  The mid and small-caps have it even worse.

[Brandon]

The US is leading the world in infections and there's very likely a correlation between that and "muh rights". 

Only in the pure, raw number, which is rather meaningless in of and by itself.  You want to look at the per capita numbers to get a better look at it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Using the per capita metric, the US (639 cases per million) is better than Germany (929 cases per million), nowhere even close to Italy (1829 cases per million) or Spain (2227 cases per million).  And right there (14 per million) with Germany (11 per million) on deaths, and well behind Italy (218 per million) and Spain (201 per million).  Note: all numbers as of 4:58 pm, April 1, 2020.