Coronavirus pandemic

[kalvado]

The US is leading the world in infections and there's very likely a correlation between that and "muh rights". 

Only in the pure, raw number, which is rather meaningless in of and by itself.  You want to look at the per capita numbers to get a better look at it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Using the per capita metric, the US (639 cases per million) is better than Germany (929 cases per million), nowhere even close to Italy (1829 cases per million) or Spain (2227 cases per million).  And right there (14 per million) with Germany (11 per million) on deaths, and well behind Italy (218 per million) and Spain (201 per million).  Note: all numbers as of 4:58 pm, April 1, 2020.

Most European numbers show the slow down tendency, at least on a log scale. US has only a week trend for now, so there is a chance to come out as #1 after all.

[Brandon]

The US is leading the world in infections and there's very likely a correlation between that and "muh rights". 

Only in the pure, raw number, which is rather meaningless in of and by itself.  You want to look at the per capita numbers to get a better look at it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Using the per capita metric, the US (639 cases per million) is better than Germany (929 cases per million), nowhere even close to Italy (1829 cases per million) or Spain (2227 cases per million).  And right there (14 per million) with Germany (11 per million) on deaths, and well behind Italy (218 per million) and Spain (201 per million).  Note: all numbers as of 4:58 pm, April 1, 2020.

Most European numbers show the slow down tendency, at least on a log scale. US has only a week trend for now, so there is a chance to come out as #1 after all.

Cheering for it much? /snark.

[kalvado]

The US is leading the world in infections and there's very likely a correlation between that and "muh rights". 

Only in the pure, raw number, which is rather meaningless in of and by itself.  You want to look at the per capita numbers to get a better look at it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Using the per capita metric, the US (639 cases per million) is better than Germany (929 cases per million), nowhere even close to Italy (1829 cases per million) or Spain (2227 cases per million).  And right there (14 per million) with Germany (11 per million) on deaths, and well behind Italy (218 per million) and Spain (201 per million).  Note: all numbers as of 4:58 pm, April 1, 2020.

Most European numbers show the slow down tendency, at least on a log scale. US has only a week trend for now, so there is a chance to come out as #1 after all.

Cheering for it much? /snark.

Not really. Just a pinch of sarcasm
I am not too far from NYC. It's quiet here, but maybe the storm is coming....

[bandit957]

The US is leading the world in infections and there's very likely a correlation between that and "muh rights". 

Only in the pure, raw number, which is rather meaningless in of and by itself.  You want to look at the per capita numbers to get a better look at it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Using the per capita metric, the US (639 cases per million) is better than Germany (929 cases per million), nowhere even close to Italy (1829 cases per million) or Spain (2227 cases per million).  And right there (14 per million) with Germany (11 per million) on deaths, and well behind Italy (218 per million) and Spain (201 per million).  Note: all numbers as of 4:58 pm, April 1, 2020.

Also, the United States is far worse per capita than countries that did not issue any lockdowns.

[hotdogPi]

The UK, the Netherlands, and Sweden have decided to go for the herd immunity strategy. They are doing very poorly.

Iceland seems to be doing really well with the deaths:recovered ratio, and somehow India has very few cases for its population.

[gonealookin]

Our resort town (I'm a Nevada resident but pretty much adjacent to South Lake Tahoe, CA) is very quiet, but maybe not as quiet as some expect or want.

Anecdotally, some people from urban areas (mostly the Bay Area, Sacramento and LA) who own property up here as vacation homes or income property are coming up to stay because they feel safer out of that urban environment.  If you're working from home it doesn't really matter whether home is "down there" or at Tahoe.  Snow usually keeps many of those folks away for several months but we're close to done with that.  While vacation rentals are supposed to be shut down, as are the hotels, it may also be that some who can afford it are renting those places for more than 30 days, thus making them "long term rentals" rather than vacation rentals.

Grocery stores are open, not crowded and mostly well-stocked unless you need TP.  There are also plenty of restaurants on the low end open for takeout, so fast food, pizza and the Denny's and IHOP type stuff is available, usually with shorter hours.

Driving US 50 through town is traffic-wise the easiest it has ever been in all my years as a full-time resident.

[ftballfan]

I saw an article where Michigan could see 10-20% of their restaurants go under. If that is the case, I expect fine dining to take the biggest hit and fast food and pizza places will weather it the best (as fast food already has a drive-thru feature and many pizza places have no dining room to begin with or a very small one, with most business being take-out or delivery).

In Michigan, it seems like places that have been allowed to remain open have had to reduce their hours. For example, a local convenience store chain that has always been open 24/7/365 (even on Christmas!) will now be open 5am-midnight.

[vdeane]

The US is leading the world in infections and there's very likely a correlation between that and "muh rights". 

Only in the pure, raw number, which is rather meaningless in of and by itself.  You want to look at the per capita numbers to get a better look at it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Using the per capita metric, the US (639 cases per million) is better than Germany (929 cases per million), nowhere even close to Italy (1829 cases per million) or Spain (2227 cases per million).  And right there (14 per million) with Germany (11 per million) on deaths, and well behind Italy (218 per million) and Spain (201 per million).  Note: all numbers as of 4:58 pm, April 1, 2020.

Europe is also a good 2-3 weeks ahead of us on the curve, so there's still a LOT of time for things to get worse.  It's hard to imagine, but we're still in the beginning of that curve.  Right now the peak isn't estimated to hit until late April!

A friend of mine works at Franklin Baking in Goldsboro, NC and he said that the cops were enforcing that order pretty heavily. He already got stopped once, but once he showed them a paper he got from his job, they let him go. Can't speak for other areas of NC, though.

Great, now we're a "papers please" country.

We have been ever since our driver's licenses became Soviet-style "Internal Passports".

How long has it been like that?

I'm guessing he's referring to things like how you need it for things like flying, entering federal buildings, etc.  I'm old enough to remember a time when just anyone could walk into a terminal with no idea and only a metal detector for security (no line either, unless you caused the metal detector to beep the whole process didn't even take 15 seconds).  Mom and I used to drop Dad off right at the gate when he went on business travel and wait there for him when he returned.

Regarding the abortion protests, there's a controversy ongoing in Kentucky about this. The governor has banned elective medical procedures under the terms of his emergency order. A number of people are upset that he's extended this prohibition to things like eye and dental exams, elective surgery, etc., but not elective abortions when the mother's life or health are not at risk. Some are even posting figures with the daily number of babies killed in Kentucky each day vs. virus fatalities. Others are saying that if the shortage of masks, gloves, and other medical equipment is as severe as some say it is, that equipment that is used for elective abortions could instead be used by medical personnel treating those infected by the virus. I know Planned Parenthood, ACLU, etc., have opposed such closures in other states, but it seems funny to me that an invented right such as abortion is upheld while actual enumerated rights such as the freedom of religion and freedom of assembly are being curtailed by executive order, and no one says a word.

The reasons behind all of this are complicated.

But they can't just prohibit all private gatherings. That would be unconstitutional. They'll do it, but it's not constitutional.

I heard that some church around here held services in the parking lot, and worshipers stayed in their cars. I'm sure that's allowable. The virus won't get into someone else's car from 100 feet away. A virus does what it can naturally do, and that's about it.

The local news showed such a service in Schenectady.  Those cars didn't look like they were 6 feet or more apart, so with your windows down to hear the service, the virus could spread if any of those cars had more than the driver inside (many had full families in what was shown, so the passenger and the driver in the adjacent car would only have been 2-3 feet away from each other).  It's less close contact than a regular service, but still not really social distancing.

Grocery stores are open, not crowded and mostly well-stocked unless you need TP.

Just did groceries tonight.  Shelves are still low but not as bad as they were.  Had to compromise on bread and go to a different store for soup.  The brand of bread I buy seems to get sparser every time I go, which isn't a good sign, especially since other brands have so many slices in a loaf that it would start to go bad before I finished (also, it would be hard to put it in a large freezer bag to keep safe from the ants that once broke into my pantry).

[mgk920]

Grocery stores are open, not crowded and mostly well-stocked unless you need TP.

Just did groceries tonight.  Shelves are still low but not as bad as they were.  Had to compromise on bread and go to a different store for soup.  The brand of bread I buy seems to get sparser every time I go, which isn't a good sign, especially since other brands have so many slices in a loaf that it would start to go bad before I finished (also, it would be hard to put it in a large freezer bag to keep safe from the ants that once broke into my pantry).

Put the loaf in a freezer bag and then into a freezer, it's the best place to keep it.  Then take what you need out of the freezer, thaw it (does not take vary long) and eat it.

Mike

[sprjus4]

In other news, wait, what?? How did this thread earn a sticky?

Welp that didn't last that long.

[Max Rockatansky]

I drove by Costco at 10 AM this morning to see if it was even worth an attempt.  There was a line of about 400 people at the Clovis Avenue store.  It seemed pointless to try to fight a crowd like that when all I needed was food, so I went to Vons instead.  Vons aside from cleaning product was fully stocked and was about normal shopping volume.  I haven't really spent much time in the city this past three weeks so it was weird to see so many people dressed like Neo-Plague Doctors. 

[Duke87]

Americans who lack the means to receive proper healthcare drag these metrics down.

But isn't that their point? If all Americans had better and equal access to proper healthcare, our metrics might improve.

My point is that the inferior overall results of the American healthcare system on standard metrics in normal times should not be taken as indicative that the American healthcare system is less capable of handling a virus outbreak specifically. Covid has nothing to do with life expectancy or infant mortality, and past performance is not predictive of future performance.

Regarding the abortion protests, there's a controversy ongoing in Kentucky about this. The governor has banned elective medical procedures under the terms of his emergency order. A number of people are upset that he's extended this prohibition to things like eye and dental exams, elective surgery, etc., but not elective abortions when the mother's life or health are not at risk.

I think the important point here is that while an abortion may be "elective" in the sense that there is usually no medical necessity for one, it is still time-sensitive in all cases. You can skip your dentist appointment for now and come back in six months and it's no big deal. With abortions, that for obvious reasons isn't possible - any woman who is prevented from getting one during the virus outbreak will likely miss her window of opportunity to do so and be forced to carry the baby to term. This is, of course, exactly what the folks clamoring for the procedure to be suspended want, but it does run afoul of the established legal precedent that women can't be forced to do that.

Grocery stores are open, not crowded and mostly well-stocked unless you need TP.

Just did groceries tonight.  Shelves are still low but not as bad as they were.  Had to compromise on bread and go to a different store for soup.  The brand of bread I buy seems to get sparser every time I go, which isn't a good sign, especially since other brands have so many slices in a loaf that it would start to go bad before I finished (also, it would be hard to put it in a large freezer bag to keep safe from the ants that once broke into my pantry).

You can just put the loaf of bread straight in the freezer without otherwise rebagging it. That's what I always do.

[wxfree]

The United States Constitution wasn't meant to be a monarchical imposition of the will of a king or a founder on everyone else, but was meant to reflect the values of the Declaration of Independence, which states that all men are created equal.  The most wise should not make themselves like the most foolish, who go and party on the beach and commit mass murder by picking up and spreading viruses.  It was hoped that the wisdom of any common man could rise up and advise the leaders.  That is what equality means.  When freedom of religion means human sacrifice, and when freedom of speech means lying under oath, then we must realize that these freedoms must have limits.  True freedom is not a right to do whatever the fuck you want, but is the wisdom to know why you do what you must.  Our founders left us a beautiful heritage.  It is a heritage that is guided by wisdom and enlightenment.  They were slaveholders who preached equality.  They hoped that we would equally be believers in words who could also be believers in ideals.

How many people are you willing to murder in order to assert you constitutional right to run around being a stupid fucktard?

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

Murder?  That's an equally big as problem that there are people running around right now making declarations like that. 

[hotdogPi]

Does anyone know what Germany is doing differently from other European countries that is causing it to have a really good death:recovery ratio? Compare Germany's deaths to Italy, Spain, and France. (Iceland is doing even better with this ratio as I mentioned before, but there's a small sample size there.)

[SEWIGuy]

The Constitution does not require "separation of church and state." Wish I had $1 for every time I've read or heard that it does. What the Constitution (First Amendment) does stipulate is that the government cannot establish an official religion, or prohibit anyone from worshipping freely as they see fit. It also does not permit the government to restrict the ability of the people to peaceably assemble.

Churches are required to abide by fire codes, building codes, etc.  This is no different.

It is irresponsible for Churches to assemble during this time.  They are endangering the safety of more than their own members.

[US71]

Does anyone know what Germany is doing differently from other European countries that is causing it to have a really good death:recovery ratio? Compare Germany's deaths to Italy, Spain, and France. (Iceland is doing even better with this ratio as I mentioned before, but there's a small sample size there.)

For one, a nationwide lockdown until mid-April.

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently an engineer tried to ram his train into a hospital ship down in Los Angeles because he was "suspicious"  about the military vessel being present:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/engineer-tried-crash-train-usns-mercy-los-angeles-233500380--abc-news-topstories.html

To that end the conspiracy crowd has started to pop up again on social media platforms also.  The whole thing about tanks being transported on trains thing is started to crop up again on Facebook as a common example. 

[jemacedo9]

The Constitution does not require "separation of church and state." Wish I had $1 for every time I've read or heard that it does. What the Constitution (First Amendment) does stipulate is that the government cannot establish an official religion, or prohibit anyone from worshipping freely as they see fit. It also does not permit the government to restrict the ability of the people to peaceably assemble.

Churches are required to abide by fire codes, building codes, etc.  This is no different.

It is irresponsible for Churches to assemble during this time.  They are endangering the safety of more than their own members.

God's will?

[DaBigE]

The whole thing about trains being transported on trains thing is started to crop up again on Facebook as a common example.

Huh? I haven't had my caffeine for the day yet, but am I missing something here? Train on a train?

[Max Rockatansky]

The whole thing about trains being transported on trains thing is started to crop up again on Facebook as a common example.

Huh? I haven't had my caffeine for the day yet, but am I missing something here? Train on a train?

Tanks, I just went back and corrected it.

[hbelkins]

With the capability for video arraignments these days, there is absolutely no reason for habeas corpus to be suspended for any reason.



The whole thing just reeks of a complete lack of good judgment. If you're at risk, or if you regularly interact with someone who's at risk, your behavior should be drastically different than someone who is not at risk. I've said this before; my behavior would be drastically different if I was still looking after my dad. Remember, I've said that he was very susceptible to the common cold, and anytime this big, strong man who lost a leg in Korea but could still outwork most people half his age until he was up in his late 60s or early 70s caught a cold, he'd practically be bedridden for a week. So if I had a cold, I wouldn't go around him. If I had to take him something, I'd stick it inside the door and leave.

It's like, why do people not use birth control if they have sex? They know how people get pregnant. Why do people use meth or coke or heroin for the first time? They know those are highly addictive substances. Why do they start smoking? Everyone knows tobacco's not good for you.

There are outliers, which garner all the headlines, but most of those who are dying or become seriously ill are members of the at-risk groups (elderly, immunocompromised, etc.). Everyone's talking about the 20-year-old who might go to a party and catch it and give it to grandma. Well, don't go see grandma!

There are a lot of things I'm more worried about than catching the virus. Tick-borne illnesses (Lyme disease, spotted fever, alpha-gal) and being bitten by a venomous snake are two of them.

[DaBigE]

Apparently an engineer tried to ram his train into a hospital ship down in Los Angeles because he was "suspicious"  about the military vessel being present:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/engineer-tried-crash-train-usns-mercy-los-angeles-233500380--abc-news-topstories.html

To that end the conspiracy crowd has started to pop up again on social media platforms also.  The whole thing about tanks being transported on trains thing is started to crop up again on Facebook as a common example.

We've had similar waves of comments around here as well. So many people forget that Oshkosh has several large contracts with the military for humvee replacement vehicles (JLTVs), as well as refubs of other military vehicles. Bad timing for shipment? Maybe. But common sense would say they should be used to seeing them by now. No one screams martial law when EAA fly-in time rolls around and there are dozens of vehicles awaiting work or shipment, sitting in fields across from the airport. 

[vdeane]

Grocery stores are open, not crowded and mostly well-stocked unless you need TP.

Just did groceries tonight.  Shelves are still low but not as bad as they were.  Had to compromise on bread and go to a different store for soup.  The brand of bread I buy seems to get sparser every time I go, which isn't a good sign, especially since other brands have so many slices in a loaf that it would start to go bad before I finished (also, it would be hard to put it in a large freezer bag to keep safe from the ants that once broke into my pantry).

You can just put the loaf of bread straight in the freezer without otherwise rebagging it. That's what I always do.

That's actually what I do for whole loaves when I buy them before I need them (even when I'm not buying groceries days in advance, this happens about 50% of the time; at 2 slices of toast with 2 eggs for breakfast, for every three grocery cycles synced to cartons of eggs I buy 2 loaves of bread, so the first week I start the bread immediately, the second I start it half way through, and the third I don't buy bread*).

*Except for now, because of the scarcity of bread, I'm buying a loaf if I can find what I regularly buy whether it's a week where I need to or not, in case it's missing the following week.

Does anyone know what Germany is doing differently from other European countries that is causing it to have a really good death:recovery ratio? Compare Germany's deaths to Italy, Spain, and France. (Iceland is doing even better with this ratio as I mentioned before, but there's a small sample size there.)

Early testing, and they're not quite on the same cycle as Italy/France/Spain; their peak will be later
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/opinion/germany-coronavirus.html

[sprjus4]

Outer Banks residents angered by out-of-state license plates; people caught trying to sneak past checkpoints

Jamie Banjak was driving through Kill Devil Hills Friday in a friend's car when a woman in a white van started blowing her horn and shouting obscenities. The driver wanted her to go back to where she belonged.

This wasn't about racism or even a dust up over driving habits, though. It was about the New York plates on her friend's car.

"It's crazy,"  said Banjak, who has been letting her friend stay with her at her Dare County home since February.

Tempers have been running high in the Outer Banks in recent weeks, with locals fearing "outsiders"  with license plates from New York, New Jersey and other states are bringing the coronavirus to their quiet seaside community.

It's talked about among neighbors, berated on social media and complained about to elected officials. Blame is going in many directions.

Dare County closed its borders to visitors on March 17 and set up checkpoints to enforce the ban. On March 20, the county expanded the restriction to include non-resident property owners. Currituck County did the same for the Corolla area.

The move, however, wasn't enough to keep the virus out. It was announced Tuesday that a second person in Dare County had tested positive for the coronavirus. Both gave addresses that were outside Dare County.

Officials this week stressed most of the out-of-towners they are seeing in the Outer Banks are allowed to be there. But some are not.

At least one person was caught attempting to enter in the trunk of a car. Some others have been catching rides with local friends. Another had his car hefted onto the back of a tow truck to get through, but was stopped.

Currituck County commissioner Bob White said about three dozen people tried to cross the Currituck Sound last weekend in boats and come into a canal north of Corolla. Currituck officers in boats turned them around, he said.

Kitty Hawk Police also verified a post on Craigslist offering rides onto the Outer Banks for a price.

Dare County has received reports that property managers are driving clients past the checkpoints. Dare County manager Bobby Outten wrote a long letter to the Outer Banks Association of Realtors asking its members to comply. So far, the reports are unfounded, he said.

"That's not happening,"  said Doug Brindley, owner of Brindley Beach Vacation and Sales and tourism board director for the association.

"If you can think of a way to try and get around, they are doing it,"  said Dare County Sheriff Doug Doughtie, whose deputies at the Wright Memorial Bridge on U.S. 158 are checking 1,600 to 1,800 vehicles a day.

The Warren Bridge over the Alligator River on U.S. 64 is easier to control with about 300 vehicles a day, he said.

Dare County is allowing some exceptions for people to pass, said Drew Pearson, director of the county's emergency management.

"We do have a heart,"  he said. "Some people have legitimate reasons, but they are few and far between."

People have tried to enter with phony hardship stories, said Dare County commissioner Steve House. The trickery is similar to when officers are trying to control reentry following a hurricane evacuation.

Officials declined to give specific examples.

"People find loopholes,"  House said. "We can't eliminate the risk, we're trying to minimize the risk. You're talking about a handful of people compared to 200,000 people who could be here."

But Ed Troutman, a member of the Corolla Civic Association, said it appeared non-residents were around in greater numbers than expected.

He saw five cars at one time with out-of-state license plates in the parking lot of a small shopping center last week. He and his neighbors have also seen them on the highway and parked at beach houses, he said.

His neighbors saw foreign exchange students working at a supermarket.

"We were shocked,"  he said.

Between 80 to 120 exchange students have been working on the Outer Banks since February and now can't get home, said Banjak, chairperson for the Outer Banks International Student Outreach Program, a support group,

Most of the students are from Ecuador where summer break comes during winter here, she said. The students lost their jobs in some cases and have sought other work.

"These students have not done anything wrong,"  she said.

Banjak knows members of the Coast Guard stationed on the Outer Banks who have plates from other states, she said.

House said he'd heard of people using their Outer Banks property to get new North Carolina drivers' licenses, but such a scheme would take time to pull off.

A new license would not arrive for about 10 days, according to the North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles. Applicants would have to surrender their home-state license, too.

Bob White, chairman of the Currituck County Board of Commissioners, said there is a much simpler explanation for the out-of-state tags people are seeing on the road: They were already there when the borders were closed and decided not to leave.

People came out with warmer weather and their vehicles are more visible, he said.

"If you're looking for those plates, you're going to see them,"  he said. "We're stopping most of them from coming in."

I find it assuming they are prohibiting outside visitors, yet they are just free to travel wherever they please. Somebody could easily leave, go to an area with a COVID-19 outbreak, travel back, and start a new internal outbreak.

IMO, if we can't enter, why should they be allowed to leave? Why only one way? They get the ability to travel where they please, meanwhile no outside visitors allowed, even property owners.