Coronavirus pandemic

[webny99]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

It is truly baffling to me that this whole pandemic has somehow "compromised freedom". In case you hadn't heard, this virus is not unique to the US. It's affecting the entire world. Being the ultimate "free country" doesn't mean we can magically handle a novel, unprecedented pandemic in a different, more "free" way than other countries. It was an absolute must to lock down when we did. It was almost too late as it was. Give me a break with all the contrarian stuff about freedoms and liberties being infringed.

[SEWIGuy]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

To be honest, there wasn't much of a difference.  Just replaced one ruling class with another.   

[Roadgeekteen]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that we're as close to another Civil War as we've ever been...and if more people get desperate facing life-and-death (as both sides are claiming, and there is some validity to that claim on both sides)...

I just wonder how the split would go. It wouldn't be as simple as Mason-Dixon line. East and West coasts against flyover states, or something more complex?

Team Blue: WA, OR, CA (some inland places in all three states will unofficially be on Team Red), parts of MN, WI, MN, and PA unofficially (it's easier to stay than to secede, and all four states are split politically), all of DC, MD, DE, NY, NJ, and New England (NH doesn't want to be surrounded by the enemy on all sides), and IL and VA will split in two. If Canada is on Team Blue, both sides have entirely contiguous territory. (Note that NM and CO would be on Team Red for the same reason that NH is on Team Blue – they don't want to be surrounded by the enemy.)

I do feel like less states would secede, with most deep red confederate states wanting out. NM, COL, and AZ I feel like would stay.

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

Every state still gets representation in congress, so your analogy falls apart. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that we're as close to another Civil War as we've ever been...and if more people get desperate facing life-and-death (as both sides are claiming, and there is some validity to that claim on both sides)...

We aren't close to a Civil War.   The overwhelming majority of people who talk shit about succession on things like Facebook aren't willing to take up arms for the things they "believe."   Nobody would be a real driver in something like that is the political world is calling for succession.  What we see State side right now with the virus measures isn't exclusive to the United State. 

[LM117]

The owner of the Gold's Gym locations in Virginia has filed a lawsuit against the governor.

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/sen-stanley-helps-file-lawsuit-against-gov-northams-order-to-close-businesses

[TheGrassGuy]

Starting the week of March 22nd the country was effectively shutting down.  Two weeks later the daily new cases in the US peaked on April 4th suggesting the shut down was effective at stopping the spread.  Since then the daily new cases have dropped by 25%.  Even if we open up the country tomorrow it's going to take another two weeks before we see a potential increase in new cases, but until then the daily new cases in the US will continue dropping. It's my belief that once you reopen the country you won't see a spike in daily new cases but rather a plateau. 



Ultimately we have proven that we can control the spread of this virus by shutting down the country.  That's great but we can't keep this country shut down.  Even if the country reopens tomorrow, the contagion rate of the virus will be regulated by the simple fact that there is a healthy fear of this virus that didn't exist before the first wave of infections.  Sure, there are protesters but even many of them are wearing masks when they go out to protest.  Honestly, every day the economy doesn't reopen, the amount of protests will increase and that could have a bigger impact on how much this virus spreads vs if the country just began to slowly reopen (which we will eventually have to do anyways so let's start already).  These health experts can't stop the protests, so plug into the models if it would be more contagious to keep this country locked down and deal with an ever increasing number of protests, or if it would simply be better to slowly open things back up.

I disagree. If we loosen social distancing guidelines too quickly, then of course there would be a huge resurgence of cases. I'm looking at you GA and SC...   

[LM117]

Missouri and Mississippi are suing China.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494143-mississippi-to-sue-china-over-response-to-coronavirus-outbreak

[AsphaltPlanet]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

It is truly baffling to me that this whole pandemic has somehow "compromised freedom". In case you hadn't heard, this virus is not unique to the US. It's affecting the entire world. Being the ultimate "free country" doesn't mean we can magically handle a novel, unprecedented pandemic in a different, more "free" way than other countries. It was an absolute must to lock down when we did. It was almost too late as it was. Give me a break with all the contrarian stuff about freedoms and liberties being infringed.

From the perspective of an outsider, I always kind of laugh when I see American's touting their freedoms.

Americans aren't really any more or less "free" than any other citizen in any other democracy.

For example.  South Korea has both a constitution and a bill or rights, and their citizens are afforded the same general liberties as any American is.

[Roadgeekteen]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

From the perspective of an outsider, I always kind of laugh when I see American's touting their freedoms.

Americans aren't really any more or less "free" than any other citizen in any other democracy.

For example.  South Korea has both a constitution and a bill or rights, and their citizens are afforded the same general liberties as any American is.
It is truly baffling to me that this whole pandemic has somehow "compromised freedom". In case you hadn't heard, this virus is not unique to the US. It's affecting the entire world. Being the ultimate "free country" doesn't mean we can magically handle a novel, unprecedented pandemic in a different, more "free" way than other countries. It was an absolute must to lock down when we did. It was almost too late as it was. Give me a break with all the contrarian stuff about freedoms and liberties being infringed.

Quote broken, but I agree. America is just another country, it's not super "special" or exceptional". Some people need to chill out with America exceptionalism.

[J N Winkler]

From the perspective of an outsider, I always kind of laugh when I see American's touting their freedoms.

Americans aren't really any more or less "free" than any other citizen in any other democracy.

For example.  South Korea has both a constitution and a bill or rights, and their citizens are afforded the same general liberties as any American is.

There is a tendency in the US, probably more marked than in other advanced countries, to see the document laying out basic civil rights--in our case, the Bill of Rights--as testamentary.

In any event, the discussion so far in this thread has been in broad strokes and has not taken into account the fact that rights are not absolutes and are not interpreted as such in our jurisprudence.  (Free speech does not allow falsely shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and so on.)  There is only a requirement that policies cutting across them be subject to what is called strict scrutiny:  this means that any measure suspending or limiting the exercise of a right must be of the minimum scope required to accomplish its purpose.  In Kansas, for example, this has meant the governor's order forbidding church services of more than 10 persons has been suspended in favor of an injunction laying out painfully strict social distancing requirements for churches.

[oscar]

The owner of the Gold's Gym locations in Virginia has filed a lawsuit against the governor.

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/sen-stanley-helps-file-lawsuit-against-gov-northams-order-to-close-businesses

Not a gym rat myself, but I wonder how much of Gold's Gym membership will rush back to the gyms even if the order is enjoined (or if it unconditionally expires on May 8, rather than be extended at least in part). Opening up the economy takes more than just relaxing the rules. Business owners and their customers have to feel safe, too.

Just as one data point, even before my favorite barbershop was ordered to close, it was losing customer bookings as people decided they didn't need a haircut badly enough to take their chances. The customers who've gone for two months without a haircut, rather than get by with spousal or DIY haircuts (or just shaving their heads), might come back ... assuming the shop reopens at all.

[ozarkman417]

The NYC social distancing hotline went about as well as you would expect..

[tradephoric]

The first amendment doesn't disappear during a pandemic.  The governors have two options right now and both will lead to further virus spread:

Option 1:  Extend their stay at home orders.  In response, more people will congregate and protest what they see as their tyrannical governor.  Meanwhile, the economy is shut down and the virus spreads as the people ban together to protest.

Option 2: Relax restrictions.  Begin to open up the economy slowly, and the virus will spread with the increase in economic activity. But if you open things up slowly you can manage the spread.

If the virus is going to spread, I'd want it to be because the economy has started to reopen and not because someone on Facebook promotes a massive march on Washington to protest their tyrannical government.  The people are speaking loudly.  Are we really waiting to reopen the economy until we have enough tests available for contact tracing?  GMAFB.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

There are more than two options. Americans are just specifically conditioned to believe there are only two irreconcilable choices in any given scenario.

[US71]

I intend to keep Social Distancing for a while.

[TheGrassGuy]

The following states have not officially called off school for the rest of the year: Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Rhode Island, South Carolina, West Virginia, Wyoming

I'm surprised that NJ and NY (which are top-two in cases) haven't called off the remainder of the school year.

A couple news agencies are reporting some autopsies from those who died in early February in Santa Clara County are testing positive for COVID-19.  That is a couple weeks in advance of the first documented deaths in Washington state. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/autopsies-reveal-first-confirmed-u-042339932.html

This would mean we might be a little closer to herd immunity, especially along the west coast, since those people who died in early February were likely exposed in mid-January if not earlier. Considering what we know now about how it is spread, it was likely spreading in Wuhan in early to mid December 2019 (and Wuhan didn't get locked down until around January 21) and had likely made it to Europe and North America around the Christmas/New Year holiday season.

OK, you can remove Nevada and South Carolina from that list now.

[tradephoric]

There are more than two options. Americans are just specifically conditioned to believe there are only two irreconcilable choices in any given scenario.

There really are only two options these governors are considering - lifting the stay at home orders or keeping them in place.  Regardless of their choice there will be further virus spread.  Nationally daily new cases have declined over the past 2 weeks (which is the main criteria to meet before moving to phase one of reopening).  All i can say is thank god there is a mix of governors with different viewpoints on how to best deal with this situation.  If there were 50 Gretchen Whitmer's the entire country would be locked down till Christmas. 

[LM117]

2 kitty cats in NY tested positive.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2-pet-cats-new-york-test-positive-for-covid19-new-coronavirus-today-2020-04-22/#

[AsphaltPlanet]

The owner of the Gold's Gym locations in Virginia has filed a lawsuit against the governor.

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/sen-stanley-helps-file-lawsuit-against-gov-northams-order-to-close-businesses

Not a gym rat myself, but I wonder how much of Gold's Gym membership will rush back to the gyms even if the order is enjoined (or if it unconditionally expires on May 8, rather than be extended at least in part). Opening up the economy takes more than just relaxing the rules. Business owners and their customers have to feel safe, too.

Just as one data point, even before my favorite barbershop was ordered to close, it was losing customer bookings as people decided they didn't need a haircut badly enough to take their chances. The customers who've gone for two months without a haircut, rather than get by with spousal or DIY haircuts (or just shaving their heads), might come back ... assuming the shop reopens at all.

The last few times that I went to the gym before non-essential businesses were closed in Ontario things were definitely starting to thin out on their own.

Sweden is an interesting case because it's one of the few countries that hasn't imposed a lockdown, however despite the fact that most businesses haven't been legally required to close, foot traffic and sales is often way down anyways as people aren't as eager to go out in public as they were before the pandemic hit.

[J N Winkler]

Not a gym rat myself, but I wonder how much of Gold's Gym membership will rush back to the gyms even if the order is enjoined (or if it unconditionally expires on May 8, rather than be extended at least in part). Opening up the economy takes more than just relaxing the rules. Business owners and their customers have to feel safe, too.

Sedgwick County, where I live, was under a stay-at-home order that took effect at 12.01 AM on Wednesday, March 25, and was in effect until it was overriden by the statewide stay-at-home order on March 30.  But, really, March 15 (10 days earlier) was the last day things carried on as normal.  Our YMCA closed indefinitely on March 16 (membership fees were later suspended), our library and schools statewide were both closed on March 17, and so on.

I wonder if Gold's Gym is suing because it feels Virginia's stay-at-home order impinges on its business model to a greater degree than is the case for other fitness clubs.  From what I understand, it caters to serious bodybuilders and weightlifters and memberships are expensive, one of the selling points being that if you have to travel frequently for business, you can use your membership at any Gold's you find on the road and thus are not limited to the machines and granny weights in a typical hotel fitness center.

[AsphaltPlanet]

2 kitty cats in NY tested positive.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2-pet-cats-new-york-test-positive-for-covid19-new-coronavirus-today-2020-04-22/#

Those cats must've eaten some bats.

[Max Rockatansky]

Not a gym rat myself, but I wonder how much of Gold's Gym membership will rush back to the gyms even if the order is enjoined (or if it unconditionally expires on May 8, rather than be extended at least in part). Opening up the economy takes more than just relaxing the rules. Business owners and their customers have to feel safe, too.

Sedgwick County, where I live, was under a stay-at-home order that took effect at 12.01 AM on Wednesday, March 25, and was in effect until it was overriden by the statewide stay-at-home order on March 30.  But, really, March 15 (10 days earlier) was the last day things carried on as normal.  Our YMCA closed indefinitely on March 16 (membership fees were later suspended), our library and schools statewide were both closed on March 17, and so on.

I wonder if Gold's Gym is suing because it feels Virginia's stay-at-home order impinges on its business model to a greater degree than is the case for other fitness clubs.  From what I understand, it caters to serious bodybuilders and weightlifters and memberships are expensive, one of the selling points being that if you have to travel frequently for business, you can use your membership at any Gold's you find on the road and thus are not limited to the machines and granny weights in a typical hotel fitness center.

I went to the gym up until the day it closed.  It progressively got more and more quiet the week or so up to when Fresno issues it's order.  I have a home gym that I set up and do all my cardio outside anyways, so in that sense I was as affected as most.  I'll be back the first day the gym reopens, I can't match the diversity of strength exercises at home forever. 

[Tonytone]

+1


iPhone

[J N Winkler]

I went to the gym up until the day it closed.  It progressively got more and more quiet the week or so up to when Fresno issues it's order.  I have a home gym that I set up and do all my cardio outside anyways, so in that sense I was as affected as most.  I'll be back the first day the gym reopens, I can't match the diversity of strength exercises at home forever.

Amen.

I maintained my routine right up to closure as well.  (March 16 would otherwise have been the first day of my usual Monday-Wednesday-Friday routine.)  The week before, there were signs management was getting antsy about COVID-19.  On March 11 we got an email telling us they were going to step up cleaning of contact surfaces; I was hoping this meant they would be more consistent about ensuring they had towels at the front desk to hand you when you checked in.  That day I got one, and they had a member of staff on the floor changing out the towels next to the bottles of sanitizer.  (Every machine has a holster for a sanitizer spray bottle and towel, but not all have a bottle at any given time, and you don't usually get dirty looks for not spraying and wiping as long as you drape your towel over skin contact areas and dry-wipe the handles.)  The next day I went--March 13, a Friday--it was back to normal, with no towel at the desk for me.

I plan to be back as soon as they reopen.  I didn't try to set up a gym at home--no room--and as a result I have lost strength and muscle tone, though I have been walking to stay active and have not gained any weight since my diet pretty much prevents it.

[1995hoo]

Reading this thread, comments on various news stories and social media posts, etc., convinces me even more that if the American Revolution happened today, most people would side with the British.

To be honest, there wasn't much of a difference.  Just replaced one ruling class with another.   

The American "Revolution" wasn't really a true "revolution." It was a revolt or a rebellion.  The French Revolution was a true revolution in that it fundamentally remade French society in so many ways, whereas the American one was, as you say, more about changing the form of government.