Coronavirus pandemic

[kphoger]

On the other hand, we had the bug guy come to our house yesterday because of an ant problem, and he didn't even wear a mask in our house.

I think you all can assume by now that it didn't bother me.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've seen a few people in our neighborhood wearing masks on our (nearly-) daily walks.  But most don't.  In fact the latest from the governor specifically said you did NOT have to wear a mask during outside recreation - but still abide by social distancing.

It is interesting to try to avoid the people you meet coming in the opposite direction.  It sometimes becomes like a game of "chicken" to determine who will turn aside first.  The only "rule" that seems to be universal is that you try to avoid the families with small kids.  After that, it's whoever blinks first.

I've seen some seriously surprised people when I'll jump over medians and back when I'm out running.  I noticed that this past week there has been a lot more pre-sunrise walkers out.  I'm assuming that the extra amount of people taking walks as forced some to go out earlier.  Usually the only pre-sunrise people I see are serious cardio people who run or cycle. 

The most obnoxious group is the dog walkers.  There are a ton of them that have no control over their animals.  A lot of them still try to chase things that are moving fast, like me. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Modoc County (which has zero cases) reopened today despite not getting approval from the governors office in Sacramento:

https://news.yahoo.com/california-county-defies-governors-statewide-152909124.html

Of note; one people official cited in the article echoed what I've been saying regarding law enforcement response to social distancing.  Most departments aren't going to go out of their way to cite people with misdemeanor offenses and will attempt to dissuade above all else.  I would have to imagine that similar sentiments from the law enforcement community probably can be found nation wide. 

[kphoger]

Nicely said. Some risks are a part of life.

Not my point, exactly.

I guess my point is this:  If avoiding risk is your guiding principle, your default modus operandi, then you're doing life the wrong way.

[kalvado]

Nicely said. Some risks are a part of life.

Not my point, exactly.

I guess my point is this:  If avoiding risk is your guiding principle, your default modus operandi, then you're doing life the wrong way.

The end result is somewhat predictrable, though. First wave saw coffins in trenches; the second wave will be about dump trucks of bodies and lime.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Nicely said. Some risks are a part of life.

Not my point, exactly.

I guess my point is this:  If avoiding risk is your guiding principle, your default modus operandi, then you're doing life the wrong way.

The issue I have with this thought is that not all risks are equal, and it's up to people to decide what is a necessary and what is not a necessary risk.

While I don't think it's what you meant, it sounds like you're saying people trying too hard to avoid catching the virus aren't really living life.

[kphoger]

Nicely said. Some risks are a part of life.

Not my point, exactly.

I guess my point is this:  If avoiding risk is your guiding principle, your default modus operandi, then you're doing life the wrong way.

The issue I have with this is that thought is that not all risks are equal, and it's up to people to decide what is a necessary and what is not a necessary risk.

I completely agree with that statement.

But what I was replying to was the assertion, "I'm not going to trust that it's safe just because the government says so - I will want to see the results empirically show this and will be looking hard for any canaries of a possible resurgence."  Maybe I took it wrong, but that sounds like someone who is fully prepared to hibernate at the slightest hint of risk.

[jemacedo9]

Nicely said. Some risks are a part of life.

Not my point, exactly.

I guess my point is this:  If avoiding risk is your guiding principle, your default modus operandi, then you're doing life the wrong way.

That's pretty black and white, or hyperbolic.  Some risks are worth taking and others aren't, right?

At this point, total lockdown is ridiculous...but total opening isn't good right now, right? 

Aren't we all really just arguing where to draw the line somewhere east and west of the midpoint?

[kphoger]

Some risks are worth taking and others aren't, right?

Right.

At this point, total lockdown is ridiculous...but total opening isn't good right now, right? 

I'm remain unconvinced.

[GaryV]

I've seen a few people in our neighborhood wearing masks on our (nearly-) daily walks.  But most don't.  In fact the latest from the governor specifically said you did NOT have to wear a mask during outside recreation - but still abide by social distancing.

It is interesting to try to avoid the people you meet coming in the opposite direction.  It sometimes becomes like a game of "chicken" to determine who will turn aside first.  The only "rule" that seems to be universal is that you try to avoid the families with small kids.  After that, it's whoever blinks first.

With this virus, I'd avoid the elderly before avoiding the children.

Hey, I resemble that remark.  (OK, not elderly by any means, but sometimes I qualify for the senior discount.  And now, the senior shopping hours.)

The thing with the little kids is that they are hard to keep corralled, and the parents don't want to move with them into the street.  So we give way to them.

And yes, if I see someone walking slower and more feebly than us, then I will give way.

[kphoger]

The thing with the little kids is that they are hard to keep corralled, and the parents don't want to move with them into the street.  So we give way to them.

Hey, I resemble that remark.  (as a parent, not a child)

[J N Winkler]

But what I was replying to was the assertion, "I'm not going to trust that it's safe just because the government says so - I will want to see the results empirically show this and will be looking hard for any canaries of a possible resurgence."  Maybe I took it wrong, but that sounds like someone who is fully prepared to hibernate at the slightest hint of risk.

It did not strike me that way.  From the way people have been talking about silent cases, herd immunity, etc. just in this thread, it seems to me that much of the motivation for unwinding stay-at-home measures comes from "It hurts and I want it to stop."  In Kansas we are about to start the first phase of a four-phase reopening plan this coming Monday even though we had record-setting daily counts of new cases just a week ago, which puts us in defiance of the CDC recommendation not to transition to a new phase of relaxing restrictions until daily new cases have declined for 14 consecutive days.

Governors will be aware that as time goes on, compliance with stay-at-home orders decays, legislative support for emergency measures becomes more precarious, and the willingness of law enforcement to apply sanctions evaporates.  So I suspect many of them are trying to keep the situation from destabilizing by establishing frameworks that allow them to satisfy popular demand by relaxing restrictions, while providing for fallback to more stringent measures if cases take off again after 14 days in each new stage.  While this is not an unreasonable approach per se, I suspect it is happening too soon in many states.

The virus doesn't care whether you are or I am fed up about not being able to see friends in person.

[kphoger]

The virus doesn't care whether you are or I am fed up about not being able to see friends in person.

I fully understand that.  But that doesn't mean I intend to live in fear of it.

Even with the county now looking to phase out stay-at-home sooner rather than later, we are seeing footdragging from the business community locally.  Businesses don't want to have fresh outbreaks traced back to their premises, they don't want the community as a whole to bounce back into lockdown, and they consider themselves shielded from liability for as long as a mandatory order is in effect.

Meanwhile, in other news...

With an assumption that Kansas' stay-at-home order will be lifted by Monday and a recommendation from the Sedgwick County Commission not to extend the local order further, businesses in Wichita share excitement to reopen while maintaining a focus on safe reintroduction.

...

"We're just hoping (Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly) lets us go back to work, hoping that she trusts in the community for them to take the right precautions," says Prime Time Barbershop owner Nelson Tovar.

Assuming that trust in the community gives such businesses the green light, Razor Smooth owner and barber Geneka Lindberg says she plans to open at 10 a.m. Monday (May 4) and "will work the full week straight."

I read a news article this morning that quoted a restaurant owner as being eager to reopen on Day 1, but I can't find the article now.

[J N Winkler]

I fully understand that.  But that doesn't mean I intend to live in fear of it.

That's the thing--thinking the current push to unwind restrictions is too precipitate is not the same as living in fear of the virus.

I read a news article this morning that quoted a restaurant owner as being eager to reopen on Day 1, but I can't find the article now.

I think we can take it as read that there is some diversity of opinion in the business community.  At the other end of this shutdown, there were some restaurants that opted to close right away, but the Eagle did at least one article on a bar whose owner did not want to shut down for St. Patrick's Day and was chafing against the headcount restrictions that were then in effect.

Meanwhile, right now the Eagle has an article on businesses that are all ready to go on May 4, and I have just received an email from Fidelity Bank telling me that they are not reopening for lobby service until May 31.

[kphoger]

I fully understand that.  But that doesn't mean I intend to live in fear of it.

That's the thing--thinking the current push to unwind restrictions is too precipitate is not the same as living in fear of the virus.

Agreed.  I'm sorry if I imply that I think people who hesitate to unwind restrictions are living in fear of the virus.  Again, what started this chain of posts was a specific statement made by a specific member about "staying the fuck away from anything that involves people congregating", "not going to trust that it's safe just because the government says so", and "looking hard for any canaries of a possible resurgence".  I read that as indicative of something that more closely resembles living in fear than mere difference of opinion.  You didn't read it that way, and maybe I'm off the mark there.

To be clear, I don't personally look down on anyone who takes more restrictive measures than I do–staying indoors, wearing a mask everywhere, wearing gloves at the store, refusing to answer the door, staying away from family and friends–during these times.  I see it as a matter of different people determining for themselves what is an appropriate response.  Similarly, I expect others to not look down on me for taking less restrictive measures than they do.  But I do have a fundamental difference with someone who is not only content but even eager to make substantial lifestyle changes based primarily on "is it safe".

[TheGrassGuy]

NY finally shut down schools till September.
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-cuomo-schools-shut-20200501-atdzkkxjjzcyljyjnaejkfdahe-story.html

I expect NJ to follow shortly.

[Duke87]

But what I was replying to was the assertion, "I'm not going to trust that it's safe just because the government says so - I will want to see the results empirically show this and will be looking hard for any canaries of a possible resurgence."  Maybe I took it wrong, but that sounds like someone who is fully prepared to hibernate at the slightest hint of risk.

It should be noted that I am not fond of people to begin with, so avoiding crowded places is something that is not personally terribly painful for me to do. Indeed, I look forward to using "but covid" as an excuse for getting out of social obligations I wasn't thrilled about in the first place.

Regarding my attitude on safety for this matter, it should be noted that I am less concerned about my own personal safety, and more concerned about contributing to the problem by exposing others.

I am also more concerned about negative impacts to my finances than negative impacts to my health, which feeds both directly and indirectly into my desire to continue avoiding crowded places. Directly, because being in them typically means I am spending money on something that I don't *need* to be spending money on. Indirectly, because if there is a resurgence of cases requiring shutdown rules be retightened, this increases the likelihood I will experience a loss of income, so I do not want to be potentially contributing to such a thing.

[Roadgeekteen]

NY finally shut down schools till September.
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-cuomo-schools-shut-20200501-atdzkkxjjzcyljyjnaejkfdahe-story.html

I expect NJ to follow shortly.

Will any states go back to school this year?

[bing101]

https://fox40.com/news/local-news/sacramento-county-extends-health-order-through-may-22-some-restrictions-relaxed/




https://fox40.com/news/local-news/yolo-county-extends-shelter-in-place-order-through-may-31/


Update Yolo and Sacramento counties have extended their shelter in place orders.

[kphoger]

But what I was replying to was the assertion, "I'm not going to trust that it's safe just because the government says so - I will want to see the results empirically show this and will be looking hard for any canaries of a possible resurgence."  Maybe I took it wrong, but that sounds like someone who is fully prepared to hibernate at the slightest hint of risk.

It should be noted that I am not fond of people to begin with, so avoiding crowded places is something that is not personally terribly painful for me to do. Indeed, I look forward to using "but covid" as an excuse for getting out of social obligations I wasn't thrilled about in the first place.

Regarding my attitude on safety for this matter, it should be noted that I am less concerned about my own personal safety, and more concerned about contributing to the problem by exposing others.

I am also more concerned about negative impacts to my finances than negative impacts to my health, which feeds both directly and indirectly into my desire to continue avoiding crowded places. Directly, because being in them typically means I am spending money on something that I don't *need* to be spending money on. Indirectly, because if there is a resurgence of cases requiring shutdown rules be retightened, this increases the likelihood I will experience a loss of income, so I do not want to be potentially contributing to such a thing.

Thank you for not taking offense to my response, and for posting a well-crafted reply.

Will any states go back to school this year?

Knowing quite a lot of teachers, I shudder to imagine their getting thrown back into "normal" class routine for just a few weeks before the end of the school year.  The Plan B that many public school districts and private schools have implemented could be described variously as lacking, haphazard, decentralized, disjointed, etc.  To go from that right back into a scheme in which everything is expected to be normalized, routine, and unified–right before the end of the year–goodness, I hope they don't do that to the teachers.

[wolfiefrick]

Will any states go back to school this year?

Seems very unlikely. Missouri Gov. Mike Parson ordered all schools in the state closed for the rest of the academic year in early April. At my high school, my last day was supposed to be May 6 (seniors get out a few weeks earlier than the rest of the student body). Seniors were allowed to freeze their grades per class as they stood at the end of 3rd quarter (the last day of school before spring break) and senior finals were cancelled as well. The other three grade levels don't have those options.

I'm not as sentimental about high school as are some of my friends, so while I would've liked to have a senior prom and an on-time graduation ceremony, I personally am very happy about how this turned out. School was out for the summer, like, three weeks ago. 

[kphoger]

Prom and the graduation ceremony are greatly overrated, in my opinion.

[Max Rockatansky]

Prom and the graduation ceremony are greatly overrated, in my opinion.

I didn't even bother to go to my prom, seemed like a waste of time.  I tried to get out of the graduation ceremony so I could get moving to Phoenix but my Grandma gave me $500 in cash to stay a week for the photo op.  I moved so much as a kid that I had zero attachment to my high school, the people, nor the town. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Prom and the graduation ceremony are greatly overrated, in my opinion.

I didn't even bother to go to my prom, seemed like a waste of time.  I tried to get out of the graduation ceremony so I could get moving to Phoenix but my Grandma gave me $500 in cash to stay a week for the photo op.  I moved so much as a kid that I had zero attachment to my high school, the people, nor the town.

Probably feels different if you move a ton. I've lived in one town my whole life so I have a bigger connection to my school. Not graduating till 2021 though.

[wolfiefrick]

Prom and the graduation ceremony are greatly overrated, in my opinion.

I didn't even bother to go to my prom, seemed like a waste of time.  I tried to get out of the graduation ceremony so I could get moving to Phoenix but my Grandma gave me $500 in cash to stay a week for the photo op.  I moved so much as a kid that I had zero attachment to my high school, the people, nor the town.

Probably feels different if you move a ton. I've lived in one town my whole life so I have a bigger connection to my school. Not graduating till 2021 though.

This. I'm not too broken up over not having a senior prom, but I've been in the same school district with the same people since I was four years old. The worst part about this is that my high school has a 100-year-old nationally renowned newsmagazine (The Kirkwood Call) for which I'm the design editor. It's a rite of passage to end your senior year on a publication with a banquet and a whole host of other celebratory gatherings, none of which are possible due to the virus. So prom and graduation don't really matter that much to me compared to that.