Coronavirus pandemic

[kphoger]

My wife is on a diet that has her eating protein with every meal and pairing it with either fats or carbs–but not very much of both fats and carbs in the same meal.  Finding lean meat alternatives is not easy.

[kalvado]

Meat section in my local Costco today:

Maybe the refrigeration isn't working properly?

It works for fish, though.

[Max Rockatansky]

My wife is on a diet that has her eating protein with every meal and pairing it with either fats or carbs–but not very much of both fats and carbs in the same meal.  Finding lean meat alternatives is not easy.

Hard boiled egg or two with every meal.  Depending on the size that's a good 6-8 grams of protein if the yolk is pulled.  Only trouble is that it tends to bring on "other problems"  if someone has a sensitive stomach.  Protein bars/meal replacement bars are another good one to go to.  The Cliff Builders Bars I regular have 20g of protein in them and actually function decently as a snack. 

[kphoger]

My wife is on a diet that has her eating protein with every meal and pairing it with either fats or carbs–but not very much of both fats and carbs in the same meal.  Finding lean meat alternatives is not easy.

Hard boiled egg or two with every meal.  Depending on the size that's a good 6-8 grams of protein if the yolk is pulled.  Only trouble is that it tends to bring on "other problems"  if someone has a sensitive stomach.  Protein bars/meal replacement bars are another good one to go to.  The Cliff Builders Bars I regular have 20g of protein in them and actually function decently as a snack.

Yes, she eats scrambled egg whites with Canadian bacon and veggies mixed in for breakfast.  But it's not easy to figure out a dinner plan for a family of five that features egg whites as the main protein–week after week.  Chicken features prominently in our meal plans.

[Max Rockatansky]

My wife is on a diet that has her eating protein with every meal and pairing it with either fats or carbs–but not very much of both fats and carbs in the same meal.  Finding lean meat alternatives is not easy.

Hard boiled egg or two with every meal.  Depending on the size that's a good 6-8 grams of protein if the yolk is pulled.  Only trouble is that it tends to bring on "other problems"  if someone has a sensitive stomach.  Protein bars/meal replacement bars are another good one to go to.  The Cliff Builders Bars I regular have 20g of protein in them and actually function decently as a snack.

Yes, she eats scrambled egg whites with Canadian bacon and veggies mixed in for breakfast.  But it's not easy to figure out a dinner plan for a family of five that features egg whites as the main protein–week after week.  Chicken features prominently in our meal plans.

When I was doing that regularly it was for two reason; one I was training for police tests and needed to build muscle, secondly because in my late teens/early 20s because I couldn't afford much lean meat...or anywhere close to what I needed.  At the time I was going for about 250g of protein or about 1.5g of lean body mass I weighed at the time.  The real pain in the ass was trying to consume 400-500g of carbs.  That was a crap ton of fruits and veggies.  None of it was really designed for long term.  I suppose in a "food shortage"  or short term diet it might be viable.   

[tradephoric]

CDC finds New York City coronavirus death toll may be much worse than official tally
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/cdc-finds-additional-5000-nyc-deaths-possibly-linked-to-coronavirus.html

U.S. health officials have identified 5,000 fatalities in New York City that may have been caused by Covid-19 but weren't counted as part of the official coronavirus death toll, the CDC said Monday.

If what the CDC says is true, the total deaths in NYC due to COVID would be nearly 25k.  If we assume a 0.6% fatality rate (which is the highest fatality rate of various worldwide antibody tests), that would mean roughly 4.2 million people living in NYC have antibodies to the virus (or about half the population).  When Governor Cuomo was reporting on New York antibody testing he reported the fatality rate of the virus in the state appeared to be about 0.5%.  At that fatality rate  that would equate to 5 million people in NYC having antibodies to the virus (or 60% of the population).  NYC may be close to herd immunity.  In Mid-April at the worst of the outbreak NY was seeing 6,868 weekly deaths due to the virus compared to 2,222 weekly deaths now.  That's a 67% reduction in deaths.  I feel like residents of NYC would literally have to take off their face masks and intentionally cough on each other to get back to the number of deaths the city was seeing in mid-April (or put another way i believe the virus has pretty much run its course in NYC). And just look at the drop in deaths:

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&data=deaths&region=US&location=New+York&doublingtime=3

[kalvado]

CDC finds New York City coronavirus death toll may be much worse than official tally
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/cdc-finds-additional-5000-nyc-deaths-possibly-linked-to-coronavirus.html

U.S. health officials have identified 5,000 fatalities in New York City that may have been caused by Covid-19 but weren't counted as part of the official coronavirus death toll, the CDC said Monday.

If what the CDC says is true, the total deaths in NYC due to COVID would be nearly 25k.  If we assume a 0.6% fatality rate (which is the highest fatality rate of various worldwide antibody tests), that would mean roughly 4.2 million people living in NYC have antibodies to the virus (or about half the population).  When Governor Cuomo was reporting on New York antibody testing he reported the fatality rate of the virus in the state appeared to be about 0.5%.  At that fatality rate  that would equate to 5 million people in NYC having antibodies to the virus (or 60% of the population).  NYC may be close to herd immunity.  In Mid-April at the worst of the outbreak NY was seeing 6,868 weekly deaths due to the virus compared to 2,222 weekly deaths now.  That's a 67% reduction in deaths.  I feel like residents of NYC would literally have to take off their face masks and intentionally cough on each other to get back to the number of deaths the city was seeing in mid-April (or put another way i believe the virus has pretty much run its course in NYC). And just look at the drop in deaths:

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&data=deaths&region=US&location=New+York&doublingtime=3

Nope. It doesn't mean that there are more immune people, it means that death rates are underestimated.

[tradephoric]

NYC:
Population - 8.39 million
COVID deaths - 19,931

Los Angeles County: 
Population - 10.04 million
COVID deaths - 1,530

There seems to be a big disconnect between deaths in NYC and LA. Unless if there are 20k unreported COVID deaths in Los Angeles County, NYC has been hit much harder than LA (which also means the herd immunity in NYC is much greater than Southern California).  Upon reopening it's reasonable to assume that Southern California is in greater danger to seeing a spike in cases (since NYC has already gone through hell and experienced around 20k deaths... as much as 25k deaths according to new reports from the CDC).  If we see a second wave, it's likely to hit California hard while NYC will largely be spared.

[US 89]

Meat section in my local Costco today:

Maybe the refrigeration isn't working properly?

I’m thinking it’s probably good I really like eggs and can tolerate egg whites for the time being.  Then again considering I’m marathon training right now losing 10-15 pounds from a meatless diet wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.  What did the Costco Ham supply look like?

They were out of essentially all meat products. The only non-processed meats I recall seeing off the top of my head were fish (what you see in that photo is about 1/4 of what they had) and rotisserie chickens.

[jeffandnicole]

NYC: Land area: 302 sq miles.
LA County: Land area: 4,751 sq miles.

Not even in the same ballpark.

[Max Rockatansky]

NYC: Land area: 302 sq miles.
LA County: Land area: 4,751 sq miles.

Not even in the same ballpark.

San Francisco is the onto County/City even close to the density of NYC in California.

[tradephoric]

What is the density of LA and Detroit?  Wayne County (population 1.75 million) has 2,105 COVID deaths while Los Angeles County (population 10.04 million) has 1,530 deaths.  Is Detroit really going to see more COVID deaths than LA when this is all said and done?  California looks to be on the verge of an outbreak even in the midst of a lock down.  Yeah i get it.. more testing is why they are seeing a rise in cases but New York is doing more testing and they are seeing their cases drop precipitously (as is Michigan and listening to Gretchen Whitmer's press conference today they have nearly tripled testing capacity):

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?region=US&location=California&location=Michigan&location=New+York&doublingtime=3

[Max Rockatansky]

What is the density of LA and Detroit?  Wayne County (population 1.75 million) has 2,105 COVID deaths while Los Angeles County (population 10.04 million) has 1,530 deaths.  Is Detroit really going to see more COVID deaths than LA when this is all said and done?  California looks to be on the verge of an outbreak even in the midst of a lock down.  Yeah i get it.. more testing is why that's happening but New York is doing more testing too and they are seeing their cases drop precipitously (not the case for Cali).   

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?region=US&location=California&location=New+York&doublingtime=3

Detroit is way the hell down density wise from when it had 1.8 million residents.  The density is still around 4,900 per square mile but you would hardly know it visiting the city (my home town).   What I don't get with Detroit is how people are contracting COVID when there is almost no big box retail in the entire city (seriously it is crazy how little there is in the City limit).  Wayne County is about 3,000 people per square mile.  Even my cousin ended up getting a confirmed case working out in Wayne County. 

[tradephoric]

Detroit is way the hell down density wise from when it had 1.8 million residents.  The density is still around 4,900 per square mile but you would hardly know it visiting the city (my home town).   What I don't get with Detroit is how people are contracting COVID when there is almost no big box retail in the entire city (seriously it is crazy how little there is in the City limit).  Wayne County is about 3,000 people per square mile.  Even my cousin ended up getting a confirmed case working out in Wayne County. 

It really is pretty insane.  Short of the Woodward corridor most of downtown are parking lots and the residential areas of the city look like this:

[Bruce]

The demographics of coronavirus cases is also about economic disparity. The hardest-hit populations are Hispanic/Latino and African American communities, where residents are more likely to be essential workers exposed to the public instead of working from home.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

Suffice to say that Detroit by American standards is second to none when it comes to poverty.  A lot of bad things have happened over the decades which are probably playing a huge factor in the current pandemic. 

Detroit is way the hell down density wise from when it had 1.8 million residents.  The density is still around 4,900 per square mile but you would hardly know it visiting the city (my home town).   What I don't get with Detroit is how people are contracting COVID when there is almost no big box retail in the entire city (seriously it is crazy how little there is in the City limit).  Wayne County is about 3,000 people per square mile.  Even my cousin ended up getting a confirmed case working out in Wayne County. 

It really is pretty insane.  Short of the Woodward corridor most of downtown are parking lots and the residential areas of the city look like this:

Yeah, it's kind of fun actually going out ruin hunting like one would on a ghost town hunt...at least I think so.  Woodward really caught me off guard last year.  I would have never thought I'd would see the day when young people and business wanted to be in downtown Detroit.  The light rail line was especially a surprise after the infamous years of the People Mover.  North of downtown Woodward really cleaned up, especially around the Red Wings new arena and Wayne State. 

[Eth]

My gut feeling on this: no, once this is all over, we're not going to see most people still wearing masks everywhere. What I do think we might see, though, is people being more likely to do so whenever they have to go out and they already know they're sick, say with a minor affliction like a cold. (Ideally, that would also be the situation right now, but of course the biggest problem is that we don't know who's sick, so we sort of have to assume everyone is until we can get it figured out.)

It's not like people know when they're sick otherwise, either.  Influenza is contagious before symptoms develop too.

For example, last time I had the flu, the earliest minor symptoms developed on New Year's Eve and took a turn for the worse late during the party at our house.  I'm sure I was highly contagious during the party, but I didn't realize it when people were arriving and giving me hugs.

It is not uncommon to disregard minor cold as a minor thing which doesn't warrant a stay at home and missing work or not going to the store etc. Thats when the mask may help big time.

Oh, I get that.  The reason I replied is that Eth seemed to imply that "we don't know who's sick" is a phenomenon unique to COVID-19.

Sorry, that's not what I meant to imply. kalvado's response pretty much hits on what I was trying to say.

[Max Rockatansky]

Lengthy article on the state of the domestic automakers now versus the "Great Recession:"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/coronavirus-detroits-automakers-have-enough-cash-to-last-the-year-without-a-bailout.html

[webny99]

How much do you want to bet that mask ordinances stay in force even after the pandemic ends?

They won't. The whole point of requiring masks is so that people don't get sick.

The ordinances may go away, but it seems likely that at least some people will be wearing masks in public for a long, long, time.

[kalvado]

How much do you want to bet that mask ordinances stay in force even after the pandemic ends?

They won't. The whole point of requiring masks is so that people don't get sick.

The ordinances may go away, but it seems likely that at least some people will be wearing masks in public for a long, long, time.

Let me put it so. I personally would not feel weird to wear a mask around if I have a running nose. Did that literally once or twice before when I went to doctor with a pretty bad one and it was.... Strange.

[wxfree]

How much do you want to bet that mask ordinances stay in force even after the pandemic ends?

I don't think that's likely.  There's no real benefit to it.  Law enforcement really doesn't like people being harder to identify.  Governments aren't so in love with control that they're willing to make bad policy that also makes crime easier.

[Max Rockatansky]

So many of you are talking about mask requirements, but how many of you have mandated temperature checks and screening questionnaires?  I deal with both daily at one of the four local agencies I interact with.  The external temperature check seems like an odd one to me given that it scan wildly one way or the other depending if the person was sitting in a cold car or out in the sun.

[bandit957]

So many of you are talking about mask requirements, but how many of you have mandated temperature checks and screening questionnaires?

A temperature check seems acceptable to me. It seems like there was one time I was entering a restaurant and they did this.

[Max Rockatansky]

So many of you are talking about mask requirements, but how many of you have mandated temperature checks and screening questionnaires?

A temperature check seems acceptable to me. It seems like there was one time I was entering a restaurant and they did this.

I did test ours out to see how wild of a variance I could get.  I came in reading 97.8F after sitting in a normally air conditioned car.  I went outside for a good hour when it was about 95F out and I really 100.8F afterwards.  The next morning I cranked the AC up to full blast for the last ten miles coming into work and measured 93.6F.  I guess that if someone measured under 100F on a rescan after 5-10 minutes they are probably fine but it didn't seem anywhere as accurate as people were trying to convince me of. 

[kalvado]

So many of you are talking about mask requirements, but how many of you have mandated temperature checks and screening questionnaires?

A temperature check seems acceptable to me. It seems like there was one time I was entering a restaurant and they did this.

I did test ours out to see how wild of a variance I could get.  I came in reading 97.8F after sitting in a normally air conditioned car.  I went outside for a good hour when it was about 95F out and I really 100.8F afterwards.  The next morning I cranked the AC up to full blast for the last ten miles coming into work and measured 93.6F.  I guess that if someone measured under 100F on a rescan after 5-10 minutes they are probably fine but it didn't seem anywhere as accurate as people were trying to convince me of.

I assume forehead temperature read is sort of a compromise between being too intrusive and being able to detect those obviously sick. These readers may have a better chance in a year or so as investment into improvement of those would be eye watering.