Coronavirus pandemic

[SEWIGuy]

Wearing a mask is not to prevent you from catching the virus. It's to keep you from giving it to others. Thus, not wearing a mask is essentially the same as drunk driving. The law is not there to keep you from doing something stupid and hurting yourself, it's to protect the people around you from you. You don't know if the strangers you're around in the store are diabetic, or if they have some other underlying condition, or if they live with or care for someone who is high risk.

So you think you know more than a person with a biology degree and whose wife is a nurse!?!

Is the biology degree with a specialization in epidemiology? If not, it's irrelevant. Likewise, nurses do not necessarily have expertise in viral infection–a nurse who works in physical therapy or neurology wouldn't necessarily have helpful information to give, for instance.

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

The whole concepts of asymptomatic transmission and the virus living on external surfaces are starting to be disputed. I've seen two separate studies this weekend ripping the idea of asymptomatic transmission to shreds, and now there's evidence that the virus doesn't live on stuff like doorknobs or steering wheels the way it was once thought.

I am sick to death of this fear-mongering. I only wear a mask when required, and so far have not yet been required to, although I will the next time I am in a public area of my office. I have not worn one inside a business, and fully 60 percent of fellow shoppers I've encountered aren't wearing masks.

It's not being selfish -- it's called having discernment.

It's not only being selfish, it shows an ignorance of people who know this stuff and recommending a course of action to benefit society. But it's too hard. Good thing you bozos weren't around when Pearl Harbor was born. If it's too hard to wear a mask to benefit others, going off to war would be way to inconvenient.

Y'know what I'm really tired of? When someone labels those who disagree with them as bad people. Not just holding a different opinion, not perhaps as having different ideas of how to achieve similar goals, but of being "selfish," "arrogant," and the list of insults could go on from there.

Meh, even what you think of me is just your opinion.

We ate at a local restaurant mainly to support a local business and help prevent it from disappearing. My wife and I wear masks (without complaining to people) where they are required, like my local supermarkets, pizzerias, and takeouts. But we understand that what masks mostly do is make people feel better. Most of our neighbors do not wear masks as they walk and jog around the neighborhood. (Some do.) Our friends in the neighborhood don't wear masks when we talk with each other. We don't look at masks as a sacrifice we're not willing to bear. I don't know anyone who thinks that. We think they're usually unnecessary and sometimes counterproductive. So we wear them to be nice or when it's required.

Don't like that we think that? Then take it up with the dueling experts. It would be nice if they all agreed with each other but they don't.

I'm not going to place value judgments on people, but if you know you are going to be within 6 feet of somebody you don't live with and don't wear a mask, you are increasing the chances that person contracts the virus. If you don't think that makes you a bad person, I'm not going to argue with that.

Really can't help yourself, eh? Can't just say someone looks at it differently, maybe even say I just don't understand them? Gotta backhandedly say I'm a bad person? Ooo-kay.

Looks at it differently?  It's not an opinion FFS.

You are ignorant and you are selfish.  Don't like that I am labelling you a bad person?  Then stop being one.

[Max Rockatansky]

Wearing a mask is not to prevent you from catching the virus. It's to keep you from giving it to others. Thus, not wearing a mask is essentially the same as drunk driving. The law is not there to keep you from doing something stupid and hurting yourself, it's to protect the people around you from you. You don't know if the strangers you're around in the store are diabetic, or if they have some other underlying condition, or if they live with or care for someone who is high risk.

So you think you know more than a person with a biology degree and whose wife is a nurse!?!

Is the biology degree with a specialization in epidemiology? If not, it's irrelevant. Likewise, nurses do not necessarily have expertise in viral infection–a nurse who works in physical therapy or neurology wouldn't necessarily have helpful information to give, for instance.

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

The whole concepts of asymptomatic transmission and the virus living on external surfaces are starting to be disputed. I've seen two separate studies this weekend ripping the idea of asymptomatic transmission to shreds, and now there's evidence that the virus doesn't live on stuff like doorknobs or steering wheels the way it was once thought.

I am sick to death of this fear-mongering. I only wear a mask when required, and so far have not yet been required to, although I will the next time I am in a public area of my office. I have not worn one inside a business, and fully 60 percent of fellow shoppers I've encountered aren't wearing masks.

It's not being selfish -- it's called having discernment.

It's not only being selfish, it shows an ignorance of people who know this stuff and recommending a course of action to benefit society. But it's too hard. Good thing you bozos weren't around when Pearl Harbor was born. If it's too hard to wear a mask to benefit others, going off to war would be way to inconvenient.

Y'know what I'm really tired of? When someone labels those who disagree with them as bad people. Not just holding a different opinion, not perhaps as having different ideas of how to achieve similar goals, but of being "selfish," "arrogant," and the list of insults could go on from there.

Meh, even what you think of me is just your opinion.

We ate at a local restaurant mainly to support a local business and help prevent it from disappearing. My wife and I wear masks (without complaining to people) where they are required, like my local supermarkets, pizzerias, and takeouts. But we understand that what masks mostly do is make people feel better. Most of our neighbors do not wear masks as they walk and jog around the neighborhood. (Some do.) Our friends in the neighborhood don't wear masks when we talk with each other. We don't look at masks as a sacrifice we're not willing to bear. I don't know anyone who thinks that. We think they're usually unnecessary and sometimes counterproductive. So we wear them to be nice or when it's required.

Don't like that we think that? Then take it up with the dueling experts. It would be nice if they all agreed with each other but they don't.

I'm not going to place value judgments on people, but if you know you are going to be within 6 feet of somebody you don't live with and don't wear a mask, you are increasing the chances that person contracts the virus. If you don't think that makes you a bad person, I'm not going to argue with that.

Really can't help yourself, eh? Can't just say someone looks at it differently, maybe even say I just don't understand them? Gotta backhandedly say I'm a bad person? Ooo-kay.

Looks at it differently?  It's not an opinion FFS.

You are ignorant and you are selfish.  Don't like that I am labelling you a bad person?  Then stop being one.

Kind of proving my point about attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you fully.  You never did answer my question if you've actually been a war. 

[Bruce]

I'm not afraid of the virus.

I'm afraid of all the idiots who refuse to wear a thin piece of cloth because they are whiny adults who can't deal with the being told what to do.

They will bring the virus into public spaces and spread it around out of their willful ignorance while demanding things reopen.

[US71]

I'm not afraid of the virus.

I'm afraid of all the idiots who refuse to wear a thin piece of cloth because they are whiny adults who can't deal with the being told what to do.

They will bring the virus into public spaces and spread it around out of their willful ignorance while demanding things reopen.

I wear a mask when I go out, I take care of my business as efficiently as I can, then come home.  Knock on wood. I have not come down with the virus and I intend to stay that way, even if I'm the only one in the store with a mask.

If you choose NOT to, that's your problem and maybe your funeral.

[SEWIGuy]

Wearing a mask is not to prevent you from catching the virus. It's to keep you from giving it to others. Thus, not wearing a mask is essentially the same as drunk driving. The law is not there to keep you from doing something stupid and hurting yourself, it's to protect the people around you from you. You don't know if the strangers you're around in the store are diabetic, or if they have some other underlying condition, or if they live with or care for someone who is high risk.

So you think you know more than a person with a biology degree and whose wife is a nurse!?!

Is the biology degree with a specialization in epidemiology? If not, it's irrelevant. Likewise, nurses do not necessarily have expertise in viral infection–a nurse who works in physical therapy or neurology wouldn't necessarily have helpful information to give, for instance.

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

The whole concepts of asymptomatic transmission and the virus living on external surfaces are starting to be disputed. I've seen two separate studies this weekend ripping the idea of asymptomatic transmission to shreds, and now there's evidence that the virus doesn't live on stuff like doorknobs or steering wheels the way it was once thought.

I am sick to death of this fear-mongering. I only wear a mask when required, and so far have not yet been required to, although I will the next time I am in a public area of my office. I have not worn one inside a business, and fully 60 percent of fellow shoppers I've encountered aren't wearing masks.

It's not being selfish -- it's called having discernment.

It's not only being selfish, it shows an ignorance of people who know this stuff and recommending a course of action to benefit society. But it's too hard. Good thing you bozos weren't around when Pearl Harbor was born. If it's too hard to wear a mask to benefit others, going off to war would be way to inconvenient.

Y'know what I'm really tired of? When someone labels those who disagree with them as bad people. Not just holding a different opinion, not perhaps as having different ideas of how to achieve similar goals, but of being "selfish," "arrogant," and the list of insults could go on from there.

Meh, even what you think of me is just your opinion.

We ate at a local restaurant mainly to support a local business and help prevent it from disappearing. My wife and I wear masks (without complaining to people) where they are required, like my local supermarkets, pizzerias, and takeouts. But we understand that what masks mostly do is make people feel better. Most of our neighbors do not wear masks as they walk and jog around the neighborhood. (Some do.) Our friends in the neighborhood don't wear masks when we talk with each other. We don't look at masks as a sacrifice we're not willing to bear. I don't know anyone who thinks that. We think they're usually unnecessary and sometimes counterproductive. So we wear them to be nice or when it's required.

Don't like that we think that? Then take it up with the dueling experts. It would be nice if they all agreed with each other but they don't.

I'm not going to place value judgments on people, but if you know you are going to be within 6 feet of somebody you don't live with and don't wear a mask, you are increasing the chances that person contracts the virus. If you don't think that makes you a bad person, I'm not going to argue with that.

Really can't help yourself, eh? Can't just say someone looks at it differently, maybe even say I just don't understand them? Gotta backhandedly say I'm a bad person? Ooo-kay.

Looks at it differently?  It's not an opinion FFS.

You are ignorant and you are selfish.  Don't like that I am labelling you a bad person?  Then stop being one.

Kind of proving my point about attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you fully.  You never did answer my question if you've actually been a war. 

I've never "been a war."

And I didn't notice your question earlier because I usually don't read your posts.

[kalvado]

If you choose NOT to, that's your problem and maybe your funeral.

The problem is that its the other way around. Aerosol particles easily get around the cloth mask, so people without masks are YOUR problem.

[US71]

If you choose NOT to, that's your problem and maybe your funeral.

The problem is that its the other way around. Aerosol particles easily get around the cloth mask, so people without masks are YOUR problem.

Oh, I didn't know you were an infectious disease expert?  Anyway, I wear an N95 mask, not cheap cloth mask. I want to protect myself, not play Lone Ranger.

[hotdogPi]

If you choose NOT to, that's your problem and maybe your funeral.

The problem is that its the other way around. Aerosol particles easily get around the cloth mask, so people without masks are YOUR problem.

Oh, I didn't know you were an infectious disease expert?  Anyway, I wear an N95 mask, not cheap cloth mask. I want to protect myself, not play Lone Ranger.

He's saying the reverse as in "wearing a mask protects others more than you", not as in "masks aren't necessary".

[kalvado]

If you choose NOT to, that's your problem and maybe your funeral.

The problem is that its the other way around. Aerosol particles easily get around the cloth mask, so people without masks are YOUR problem.

Oh, I didn't know you were an infectious disease expert?  Anyway, I wear an N95 mask, not cheap cloth mask. I want to protect myself, not play Lone Ranger.

A bit better for you, and depending on mask design - presence of outflow valve - possibly a bit worse for those around you. I hope you read how to maintain the mask - they lose efficiency pretty quickly..
Still lame, I have a mask with a fit factor of 1500.
As for expert.. Due to occupational exposure, I am in a respiratory protection program for past 15 years or so; had to read and write a few things - including on dust and aerosol control...

[Max Rockatansky]

Wearing a mask is not to prevent you from catching the virus. It's to keep you from giving it to others. Thus, not wearing a mask is essentially the same as drunk driving. The law is not there to keep you from doing something stupid and hurting yourself, it's to protect the people around you from you. You don't know if the strangers you're around in the store are diabetic, or if they have some other underlying condition, or if they live with or care for someone who is high risk.

So you think you know more than a person with a biology degree and whose wife is a nurse!?!

Is the biology degree with a specialization in epidemiology? If not, it's irrelevant. Likewise, nurses do not necessarily have expertise in viral infection–a nurse who works in physical therapy or neurology wouldn't necessarily have helpful information to give, for instance.

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

The whole concepts of asymptomatic transmission and the virus living on external surfaces are starting to be disputed. I've seen two separate studies this weekend ripping the idea of asymptomatic transmission to shreds, and now there's evidence that the virus doesn't live on stuff like doorknobs or steering wheels the way it was once thought.

I am sick to death of this fear-mongering. I only wear a mask when required, and so far have not yet been required to, although I will the next time I am in a public area of my office. I have not worn one inside a business, and fully 60 percent of fellow shoppers I've encountered aren't wearing masks.

It's not being selfish -- it's called having discernment.

It's not only being selfish, it shows an ignorance of people who know this stuff and recommending a course of action to benefit society. But it's too hard. Good thing you bozos weren't around when Pearl Harbor was born. If it's too hard to wear a mask to benefit others, going off to war would be way to inconvenient.

Y'know what I'm really tired of? When someone labels those who disagree with them as bad people. Not just holding a different opinion, not perhaps as having different ideas of how to achieve similar goals, but of being "selfish," "arrogant," and the list of insults could go on from there.

Meh, even what you think of me is just your opinion.

We ate at a local restaurant mainly to support a local business and help prevent it from disappearing. My wife and I wear masks (without complaining to people) where they are required, like my local supermarkets, pizzerias, and takeouts. But we understand that what masks mostly do is make people feel better. Most of our neighbors do not wear masks as they walk and jog around the neighborhood. (Some do.) Our friends in the neighborhood don't wear masks when we talk with each other. We don't look at masks as a sacrifice we're not willing to bear. I don't know anyone who thinks that. We think they're usually unnecessary and sometimes counterproductive. So we wear them to be nice or when it's required.

Don't like that we think that? Then take it up with the dueling experts. It would be nice if they all agreed with each other but they don't.

I'm not going to place value judgments on people, but if you know you are going to be within 6 feet of somebody you don't live with and don't wear a mask, you are increasing the chances that person contracts the virus. If you don't think that makes you a bad person, I'm not going to argue with that.

Really can't help yourself, eh? Can't just say someone looks at it differently, maybe even say I just don't understand them? Gotta backhandedly say I'm a bad person? Ooo-kay.

Looks at it differently?  It's not an opinion FFS.

You are ignorant and you are selfish.  Don't like that I am labelling you a bad person?  Then stop being one.

Kind of proving my point about attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you fully.  You never did answer my question if you've actually been a war. 

I've never "been a war."

And I didn't notice your question earlier because I usually don't read your posts.

Then what business do you have telling anyone how they would act/react in a war?  You're the one who's posting like an ass lobbing insults at numerous members and not expecting to be called out on it.  In my case, even though I don't necessarily agree with the rules in front of me regarding masks I do abide by them.  You even went as far as to call me "selfish"  and "what is wrong with society."   I've also had to abide by way more medical screens than probably most will ever see during this pandemic and even a hard travel restriction which for a time threatened to have me living in a hotel away from my wife.  I also stop at least a half dozen to a dozen people a day and make sure they put their masks on...in spite of how effective/not effective it might be. To that end, I've done what I can within the rules to take of my family and make sure they have been okay.  Maybe you'll actually want to consider that not everyone is a complete piece of crap who doesn't agree with your stance on the pandemic?...maybe not? 

[Brandon]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

[Max Rockatansky]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

I would imagine that it wouldn't help if those affected had severe damage to their lungs.  I remember during the couple years after there was a lot of reports of people exposed to the debris of the Twin Towers having respiratory problems. 

[CoreySamson]

A quick poll for readers! As of now, are you afraid of this virus?

1) Yes
2) No
3) Depends on if you're indoors or outdoors

I pick #3.

This really isn't about fear.  Or at least it doesn't need to be.  I know I can die while driving, but I'm not afraid of it.  I even enjoy it and often drive more than I really need to.  I use the safety belt, I pay attention, I don't drive like maniac.  That doesn't take away all of the risk, but it takes away a lot of it.  Likewise, I'm not going to the crowded places we're seeing in the news, I don't stand around up close to people, if I have to go by someone in a store, I pass by swiftly.  That doesn't take away all of the risk, but it takes away a lot of it.  Unless we get a vaccine soon, which is unlikely, it's probable that a substantial portion of the population will catch this.  I might have had it in March, I had something that wasn't very bad, which this is for some people.  If I haven't had it yet, I want to avoid catching it if I can at least until we have effective treatments.

Fear is an interesting thing.  It's an emotion, but it's also a motivation, or more accurately, a motivator.  Fear can call to action make people more vigilant, and it an also cause people to collapse.  As with many emotions, it's up to us to use it well and not be harmed by it.  I treat this virus like a car, or a rattlesnake.  Either can kill me, but that's a lot more likely if I do something stupid.  It may be inevitable that many of us catch it.  Even in that case, caution is still helpful.  At a minimum, we want to avoid all catching it at once so we don't have people dying in hospital parking lots with no one to help them.  Also, the more we can hold it back until we get some good treatments, the better.

Great post. Kinda sums up my attitude toward it.

[ftballfan]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

I would imagine that it wouldn't help if those affected had severe damage to their lungs.  I remember during the couple years after there was a lot of reports of people exposed to the debris of the Twin Towers having respiratory problems. 

The crowded living conditions doesn't help matters either.

[Brandon]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

I would imagine that it wouldn't help if those affected had severe damage to their lungs.  I remember during the couple years after there was a lot of reports of people exposed to the debris of the Twin Towers having respiratory problems. 

One has to wonder how many hidden health issues might be out there.  Apparently (and, please, NYCers, correct me if I'm wrong), the worst-hit borough was Queens, which is east of the WTC site.  If the prevailing winds took enough fine debris out that way, it could've created a ticking time bomb for borough residents.  To me, it sounds like it is worth investigating.

[Brandon]

I'm not afraid of the virus.

I'm afraid of all the idiots who refuse to wear a thin piece of cloth because they are whiny adults who can't deal with the being told what to do.

They will bring the virus into public spaces and spread it around out of their willful ignorance while demanding things reopen.

I wear a mask when I go out, I take care of my business as efficiently as I can, then come home.  Knock on wood. I have not come down with the virus and I intend to stay that way, even if I'm the only one in the store with a mask.

If you choose NOT to, that's your problem and maybe your funeral.

CDC estimates that 35% of coronavirus patients don't have symptoms

In new guidance for mathematical modelers and public health officials, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is estimating that about a third of coronavirus infections are asymptomatic.
The CDC also says its "best estimate" is that 0.4% of people who show symptoms and have Covid-19 will die, and the agency estimates that 40% of coronavirus transmission is occurring before people feel sick.
The agency cautions that those numbers are subject to change as more is learned about Covid-19, and it warns that the information is intended for planning purposes. Still, the agency says its estimates are based on real data collected by the agency before April 29.

For people age 65 and older, the CDC puts that number at 1.3%. For people 49 and under, the agency estimated that 0.05% of symptomatic people will die

[Max Rockatansky]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

I would imagine that it wouldn't help if those affected had severe damage to their lungs.  I remember during the couple years after there was a lot of reports of people exposed to the debris of the Twin Towers having respiratory problems. 

One has to wonder how many hidden health issues might be out there.  Apparently (and, please, NYCers, correct me if I'm wrong), the worst-hit borough was Queens, which is east of the WTC site.  If the prevailing winds took enough fine debris out that way, it could've created a ticking time bomb for borough residents.  To me, it sounds like it is worth investigating.

Apparently 1,000 tons of asbestos was tossed around after the attack on the World Trade Center.  The list of respiratory related deaths among first responders was pretty considerable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks#Examples_of_health_issues

[kalvado]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

I would imagine that it wouldn't help if those affected had severe damage to their lungs.  I remember during the couple years after there was a lot of reports of people exposed to the debris of the Twin Towers having respiratory problems. 

One has to wonder how many hidden health issues might be out there.  Apparently (and, please, NYCers, correct me if I'm wrong), the worst-hit borough was Queens, which is east of the WTC site.  If the prevailing winds took enough fine debris out that way, it could've created a ticking time bomb for borough residents.  To me, it sounds like it is worth investigating.

Apparently 1,000 tons of asbestos was tossed around after the attack on the World Trade Center.  The list of respiratory related deaths among first responders was pretty considerable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks#Examples_of_health_issues

While dust and asbestos likely didn't help, it would be very difficult to actually trace things. Research on humans is pretty difficult as it is, and it should be  even worse in a crazy pandemic scenario
If you think about it, we still have no distinct answers to much easier questions: if smoking affects things one way or the other (there are claims going both ways!), if certain drugs work, or if ibuprofen indeed makes things worse.
as for wind...
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ynk2Tk3hoYkDgJur5ck7xR-970-80.jpg

[Brandon]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

I would imagine that it wouldn't help if those affected had severe damage to their lungs.  I remember during the couple years after there was a lot of reports of people exposed to the debris of the Twin Towers having respiratory problems. 

One has to wonder how many hidden health issues might be out there.  Apparently (and, please, NYCers, correct me if I'm wrong), the worst-hit borough was Queens, which is east of the WTC site.  If the prevailing winds took enough fine debris out that way, it could've created a ticking time bomb for borough residents.  To me, it sounds like it is worth investigating.

Apparently 1,000 tons of asbestos was tossed around after the attack on the World Trade Center.  The list of respiratory related deaths among first responders was pretty considerable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks#Examples_of_health_issues

This would be very fine dust, and asbestos is particularly insidious in this.  It's too small to see, has no smell, no sound, no taste, and causes no irritation on the skin.  A slightly reduced lung capacity might not even be noticed until something like Covid-19 shows up.  The worst-affected areas in the city were in Brooklyn and Queens, IIRC, all downwind of the WTC site.  Anyone older than 19-20 would potentially be vulnerable here due to the dust raised by the collapse.

[cl94]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

"World Trade Center Cough" was mostly confined to first responders who worked on the site or people who were within a few blocks of the collapse (nearby schools and businesses, etc.). High dust exposure didn't go beyond Lower Manhattan.

[Duke87]

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

I wouldn't be so quick to assume there isn't a very real mechanism by which it could make a difference. A couple things to consider:

- while the virus can only be exhaled through your nose and/or mouth, it can potentially get into your body through your eyes.
- the process of inhaling from a cloud of virus-containing water droplets is not precisely mirror to the process of exhaling virus-containing water droplets. The droplets gradually shrink as they spend time in the air (because water evaporates), and smaller droplets may be better able to pass through or around a mask than larger ones.

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

"World Trade Center Cough" was mostly confined to first responders who worked on the site or people who were within a few blocks of the collapse (nearby schools and businesses, etc.). High dust exposure didn't go beyond Lower Manhattan.

Beyond this, consider the air quality in NYC on a daily basis. It is continuously out of EPA compliance on multiple key pollutants. This would have much more of an impact on people's respiratory health than a one-time event 19 years ago would.

But yes, air quality in NYC (not having anything to do with 9/11) is a plausible aggravating factor.

[Scott5114]

Wearing a mask is not to prevent you from catching the virus. It's to keep you from giving it to others. Thus, not wearing a mask is essentially the same as drunk driving. The law is not there to keep you from doing something stupid and hurting yourself, it's to protect the people around you from you. You don't know if the strangers you're around in the store are diabetic, or if they have some other underlying condition, or if they live with or care for someone who is high risk.

So you think you know more than a person with a biology degree and whose wife is a nurse!?!

Is the biology degree with a specialization in epidemiology? If not, it's irrelevant. Likewise, nurses do not necessarily have expertise in viral infection–a nurse who works in physical therapy or neurology wouldn't necessarily have helpful information to give, for instance.

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

Why do you suppose a surgeon in an operating room wears a mask? It's not because they're afraid of catching anything from the patient...

[GaryV]

I just had a thought regarding the seriousness of the pandemic in New York City.  It is possible that the dust from the collapse of the Twin Towers left more people there vulnerable to a respiratory disease such as Covid-19 than in other, similar areas in the US?

After 19 years, I suspect a large number of those living in NYC weren't living there on 9/11.  Lots of births and migrations have happened in the intervening time.  It would be interesting to find out how much of a "churn" the NYC population has.

[SEWIGuy]

Wearing a mask is not to prevent you from catching the virus. It's to keep you from giving it to others. Thus, not wearing a mask is essentially the same as drunk driving. The law is not there to keep you from doing something stupid and hurting yourself, it's to protect the people around you from you. You don't know if the strangers you're around in the store are diabetic, or if they have some other underlying condition, or if they live with or care for someone who is high risk.

So you think you know more than a person with a biology degree and whose wife is a nurse!?!

Is the biology degree with a specialization in epidemiology? If not, it's irrelevant. Likewise, nurses do not necessarily have expertise in viral infection–a nurse who works in physical therapy or neurology wouldn't necessarily have helpful information to give, for instance.

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

The whole concepts of asymptomatic transmission and the virus living on external surfaces are starting to be disputed. I've seen two separate studies this weekend ripping the idea of asymptomatic transmission to shreds, and now there's evidence that the virus doesn't live on stuff like doorknobs or steering wheels the way it was once thought.

I am sick to death of this fear-mongering. I only wear a mask when required, and so far have not yet been required to, although I will the next time I am in a public area of my office. I have not worn one inside a business, and fully 60 percent of fellow shoppers I've encountered aren't wearing masks.

It's not being selfish -- it's called having discernment.

It's not only being selfish, it shows an ignorance of people who know this stuff and recommending a course of action to benefit society. But it's too hard. Good thing you bozos weren't around when Pearl Harbor was born. If it's too hard to wear a mask to benefit others, going off to war would be way to inconvenient.

Y'know what I'm really tired of? When someone labels those who disagree with them as bad people. Not just holding a different opinion, not perhaps as having different ideas of how to achieve similar goals, but of being "selfish," "arrogant," and the list of insults could go on from there.

Meh, even what you think of me is just your opinion.

We ate at a local restaurant mainly to support a local business and help prevent it from disappearing. My wife and I wear masks (without complaining to people) where they are required, like my local supermarkets, pizzerias, and takeouts. But we understand that what masks mostly do is make people feel better. Most of our neighbors do not wear masks as they walk and jog around the neighborhood. (Some do.) Our friends in the neighborhood don't wear masks when we talk with each other. We don't look at masks as a sacrifice we're not willing to bear. I don't know anyone who thinks that. We think they're usually unnecessary and sometimes counterproductive. So we wear them to be nice or when it's required.

Don't like that we think that? Then take it up with the dueling experts. It would be nice if they all agreed with each other but they don't.

I'm not going to place value judgments on people, but if you know you are going to be within 6 feet of somebody you don't live with and don't wear a mask, you are increasing the chances that person contracts the virus. If you don't think that makes you a bad person, I'm not going to argue with that.

Really can't help yourself, eh? Can't just say someone looks at it differently, maybe even say I just don't understand them? Gotta backhandedly say I'm a bad person? Ooo-kay.

Looks at it differently?  It's not an opinion FFS.

You are ignorant and you are selfish.  Don't like that I am labelling you a bad person?  Then stop being one.

Kind of proving my point about attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you fully.  You never did answer my question if you've actually been a war. 

I've never "been a war."

And I didn't notice your question earlier because I usually don't read your posts.

Then what business do you have telling anyone how they would act/react in a war?  You're the one who's posting like an ass lobbing insults at numerous members and not expecting to be called out on it.  In my case, even though I don't necessarily agree with the rules in front of me regarding masks I do abide by them.  You even went as far as to call me "selfish"  and "what is wrong with society."   I've also had to abide by way more medical screens than probably most will ever see during this pandemic and even a hard travel restriction which for a time threatened to have me living in a hotel away from my wife.  I also stop at least a half dozen to a dozen people a day and make sure they put their masks on...in spite of how effective/not effective it might be. To that end, I've done what I can within the rules to take of my family and make sure they have been okay.  Maybe you'll actually want to consider that not everyone is a complete piece of crap who doesn't agree with your stance on the pandemic?...maybe not? 

You can "call me out" on whatever you want. 

I don't care about the opinion of inherently selfish people such as yourself so it will largely be ignored anyway.

[SEWIGuy]

Wearing a mask is not to prevent you from catching the virus. It's to keep you from giving it to others. Thus, not wearing a mask is essentially the same as drunk driving. The law is not there to keep you from doing something stupid and hurting yourself, it's to protect the people around you from you. You don't know if the strangers you're around in the store are diabetic, or if they have some other underlying condition, or if they live with or care for someone who is high risk.

So you think you know more than a person with a biology degree and whose wife is a nurse!?!

Is the biology degree with a specialization in epidemiology? If not, it's irrelevant. Likewise, nurses do not necessarily have expertise in viral infection–a nurse who works in physical therapy or neurology wouldn't necessarily have helpful information to give, for instance.

Use a little common sense. (Not just you, but everyone). If the mask won't prevent you from getting the virus, how can it be expected to prevent you from spreading it? Do the masks have little "one way" or "do not enter" signs on them? People act like the virus is a sentinent being that can make conscious decisions, or like a flea that jumps from one surface to another. If the virus can get in through a mask ("protecting you") then it most certainly can get out through a mask ("protecting others.")

Why do you suppose a surgeon in an operating room wears a mask? It's not because they're afraid of catching anything from the patient...

Let's be honest here, HB and others aren't actually actively engaging in any intelligent "discernment."  They are simply attempting to justify how they want to act.