Coronavirus pandemic

[hotdogPi]

Herd immunity could have a partial effect. For example, let's say that R is 1.2 with current conditions (most people wearing masks, large gatherings closed, etc.) and no herd immunity. If 25% have been infected enough to be immune, R becomes 0.9, and infections are decreasing.

rt.live says that R is 1.06 in MA, 0.99 in CT, 1.07 in RI, and 1.04 in NH. (These numbers are all close enough that they're the same number within the margin of error.) We don't know what percent is immune, but even if it's 10%, that means that it would be above 1.10 if there was no herd immunity – a faster increase than what there currently is. That being said, the numbers per state don't seem to differ for NH and VT vs. the rest of the northeast.

(Maine had 0 positives on July 22, which is likely a data issue. Its R value of 0.84 might not be accurate right now.)

[kalvado]

Herd immunity could have a partial effect. For example, let's say that R is 1.2 with current conditions (most people wearing masks, large gatherings closed, etc.) and no herd immunity. If 25% have been infected enough to be immune, R becomes 0.9, and infections are decreasing.

rt.live says that R is 1.06 in MA, 0.99 in CT, 1.07 in RI, and 1.04 in NH. (These numbers are all close enough that they're the same number within the margin of error.) We don't know what percent is immune, but even if it's 10%, that means that it would be above 1.10 if there was no herd immunity – a faster increase than what there currently is. That being said, the numbers per state don't seem to differ for NH and VT vs. the rest of the northeast.

(Maine had 0 positives on July 22, which is likely a data issue. Its R value of 0.84 might not be accurate right now.)

R is conditions-based. If  R=0.9 is with bars and schools closed and mask mandates in place - it can easily become R=1.2 if those are open and 1.5 if masks are no longer worn. 

[kphoger]

So is that just what you want to be the reason?  Or is any scientist actually saying that's the reason?

The summer vacation season was mentioned in a Slate article last week (the person being interviewed is described as a former medical researcher).

Which is also speculation, as she stated in the interview.  I don't mean to dis Lena Einhorn but, while she does have a doctorate degree in virology, she hasn't been in the medical research field since the 1980s.  She's a filmmaker-turned-author who hasn't even done science TV programs since the early 1990s.

[J N Winkler]

Which is also speculation, as she stated in the interview.  I don't mean to dis Lena Einhorn but, while she does have a doctorate degree in virology, she hasn't been in the medical research field since the 1980s.  She's a filmmaker-turned-author who hasn't even done science TV programs since the early 1990s.

You have dug much more deeply into Dr. Einhorn's background than I have.

I will be frank:  my main reason for bringing up the Swedish summer vacation season is to stick a crowbar between the spokes of the "herd immunity in Sweden" talking point, which is often used to buttress the argument that the US should pursue the same.  As someone who has visited Sweden, I have a sense of the cultural differences that this glosses over, and can envision ways in which a given approach to disease management could look the same on paper for both countries yet succeed there while leading to disaster here.  The stylized fact is that Swedish society is much more cohesive, so compliance with social distancing requirements there is described as quite good, for example.

[LM117]

My school district has announced a strange re-entry plan for when school starts in the end of August. There is the in-person option and the online option.. even though the in-person option is only actually in person two of five days a week. Plus, Students A-K and L-Z will never see each other, which is an insult as if I wanted to do the in-person option most of my friends are A-K and my last name is L-Z.

Same deal here. I'm gonna do my health a favor and opt for online, since it also frees up my schedule (more of a go-at-your-own-pace atmosphere).

If there is an option, I will opt for in person as this is my senior year, and I have friends who's last name starts with all different letters so I should be fine.

Funny, if I had had the option, I would have opted for online, since I had people I disliked whose last names started with all different letters...

Same here. I'm glad I graduated (2007) long before this pandemic hit.

[kphoger]

I will be frank:  my main reason for bringing up the Swedish summer vacation season is to stick a crowbar between the spokes of the "herd immunity in Sweden" talking point, which is often used to buttress the argument that the US should pursue the same.

As mentioned already a few times on here, I don't buy herd immunity as a reasonable strategy to begin with.

[Scott5114]

I have just resigned from my job because I was ordered to expose myself to what I consider an unnecessary level of risk of catching the virus.

[jeffandnicole]

I have just resigned from my job because I was ordered to expose myself to what I consider an unnecessary level of risk of catching the virus.

OMG, really?  You had been there quite a while, hadn't you? 

[Roadgeekteen]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fauci-threats-wife-daughters-family/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=94959066

Imagine threatening people because you aren't willing to accept science.

[Takumi]

We have too many people on the planet anyway.

I actually agree with this statement, but I also know that letting the plague go willy-nilly across the planet isn't the morally/ethically/socially responsible way to change that.

Well, there are two ways Mother Nature deals with overabundant species: hunger and epidemics.

Sure, but more people could choose to either not have kids, or to adopt, though the latter is often complicated. Of course, there's still a major social stigma against those of us who don't want kids (and communities like r/childfree don't exactly help the optics of that).

[Scott5114]

I have just resigned from my job because I was ordered to expose myself to what I consider an unnecessary level of risk of catching the virus.

OMG, really?  You had been there quite a while, hadn't you? 

Yes, I had worked for the Chickasaw Nation for 10½ years. Since 2014, I had been a cage cashier and picked up the extra responsibilities of an OTB teller last year. The Chickasaw Nation had closed all of its casinos as non-essential businesses between mid-March and the end of May, and unlike most places, we were still paid during the shutdown, which was very generous. When we reopened at the end of May, plexiglas shields had been installed at the cages at the behest of the tribal management in Ada. Tribal management had also issued a mask mandate and social distancing rules, requiring the removal of every other chair at the slot machines.

Crucially, however, the Chickasaw Nation did not mandate the same rules that New Jersey did as a condition to reopening Atlantic City, meaning that patrons are free to smoke, drink, and eat on the floor. Of course, you cannot do these things wearing a mask. This led to situations where people would do things like buying a candy bar, taking one bite, and then hanging out without a mask covering their face claiming to security that they had it down because they were eating. Smoking is a particularly dangerous habit during a pandemic; with smoke, you can actually see how far someone's breath can go, and it's not a particularly reassuring thought to think of viruses potentially being mixed in with the smoke.

All of this made me uncomfortable, and I expressed these concerns to management in May. However, because I was separated from all of this by the plexiglas shields, I figured the viral load I was exposed to would be comparatively small. This made the situation barely tolerable, especially since a number of employee amenities had been discontinued due to the pandemic (employee water coolers, for instance, were removed, meaning that if I wanted to fix myself a cup of ramen for lunch, I would have to get water from the tap in the customer restroom or bring a suitable amount from home).

This all came to a head when cases in Oklahoma started to spike again, and facility management (i.e. at a lower level than Ada) decided that all employees, including those not normally on the gaming floor, such as cage, vault, and soft count, would be required to spend part of the day out on the floor sanitizing machines. While I am not per se opposed to undertaking cleaning duties, the Chickasaw Nation had already hired an outside vendor to perform the same duties, in addition to the same duties being done by in-house housekeeping staff. To do this would mean exposing myself to the environment described above: smokers, drinkers, people with flimsy excuses for not wearing a mask. I was called in the office today and told that everyone in the department was required to clean the gaming floor, that there would be no exceptions, and that refusal to do so would result in disciplinary action.

This was not a position my manager would budge from, because it came from management above her, and she was not willing to lead by sticking her neck out to protect her employees. So I resigned, absent any other option.

Since I wasn't going out and doing anything during the shutdown, I was able to save almost all of the money I was paid during that time. I also saved the majority of my CARES Act stimulus money, as well as savings from other sources. So I will be fine until this all settles down, I hope.

During the shutdown, a couple of my (now-former) coworkers decided to start putting together a medical marijuana grow business (legal in Oklahoma), and I have been asked to join them to help with the administrative side of things, since I have been running a small business on the side for years. So, ironically, despite my being made fun of on here a couple years back for not knowing the price of weed, I now find myself part of the industry. Funny how life works out, huh?

[J N Winkler]

Since I wasn't going out and doing anything during the shutdown, I was able to save almost all of the money I was paid during that time. I also saved the majority of my CARES Act stimulus money, as well as savings from other sources. So I will be fine until this all settles down, I hope.

During the shutdown, a couple of my (now-former) coworkers decided to start putting together a medical marijuana grow business (legal in Oklahoma), and I have been asked to join them to help with the administrative side of things, since I have been running a small business on the side for years. So, ironically, despite my being made fun of on here a couple years back for not knowing the price of weed, I now find myself part of the industry. Funny how life works out, huh?

Best wishes for success with the new venture!  It should be more fun and rewarding than your old job, which sounded like it afforded very little employee autonomy.

[hbelkins]

This all came to a head when cases in Oklahoma started to spike again, and facility management (i.e. at a lower level than Ada) decided that all employees, including those not normally on the gaming floor, such as cage, vault, and soft count, would be required to spend part of the day out on the floor sanitizing machines. While I am not per se opposed to undertaking cleaning duties, the Chickasaw Nation had already hired an outside vendor to perform the same duties, in addition to the same duties being done by in-house housekeeping staff. To do this would mean exposing myself to the environment described above: smokers, drinkers, people with flimsy excuses for not wearing a mask. I was called in the office today and told that everyone in the department was required to clean the gaming floor, that there would be no exceptions, and that refusal to do so would result in disciplinary action.

If masks work, then if you wore yours, it shouldn't have been an issue. Your risk wouldn't be that high.

Having said that, you should have made them fire you. Unless I misunderstand how it works, or unless state laws are different, if you're let go due to concerns over the virus, you're eligible for unemployment.

[nexus73]

I have just resigned from my job because I was ordered to expose myself to what I consider an unnecessary level of risk of catching the virus.

OMG, really?  You had been there quite a while, hadn't you? 

Yes, I had worked for the Chickasaw Nation for 10½ years. Since 2014, I had been a cage cashier and picked up the extra responsibilities of an OTB teller last year. The Chickasaw Nation had closed all of its casinos as non-essential businesses between mid-March and the end of May, and unlike most places, we were still paid during the shutdown, which was very generous. When we reopened at the end of May, plexiglas shields had been installed at the cages at the behest of the tribal management in Ada. Tribal management had also issued a mask mandate and social distancing rules, requiring the removal of every other chair at the slot machines.

Crucially, however, the Chickasaw Nation did not mandate the same rules that New Jersey did as a condition to reopening Atlantic City, meaning that patrons are free to smoke, drink, and eat on the floor. Of course, you cannot do these things wearing a mask. This led to situations where people would do things like buying a candy bar, taking one bite, and then hanging out without a mask covering their face claiming to security that they had it down because they were eating. Smoking is a particularly dangerous habit during a pandemic; with smoke, you can actually see how far someone's breath can go, and it's not a particularly reassuring thought to think of viruses potentially being mixed in with the smoke.

All of this made me uncomfortable, and I expressed these concerns to management in May. However, because I was separated from all of this by the plexiglas shields, I figured the viral load I was exposed to would be comparatively small. This made the situation barely tolerable, especially since a number of employee amenities had been discontinued due to the pandemic (employee water coolers, for instance, were removed, meaning that if I wanted to fix myself a cup of ramen for lunch, I would have to get water from the tap in the customer restroom or bring a suitable amount from home).

This all came to a head when cases in Oklahoma started to spike again, and facility management (i.e. at a lower level than Ada) decided that all employees, including those not normally on the gaming floor, such as cage, vault, and soft count, would be required to spend part of the day out on the floor sanitizing machines. While I am not per se opposed to undertaking cleaning duties, the Chickasaw Nation had already hired an outside vendor to perform the same duties, in addition to the same duties being done by in-house housekeeping staff. To do this would mean exposing myself to the environment described above: smokers, drinkers, people with flimsy excuses for not wearing a mask. I was called in the office today and told that everyone in the department was required to clean the gaming floor, that there would be no exceptions, and that refusal to do so would result in disciplinary action.

This was not a position my manager would budge from, because it came from management above her, and she was not willing to lead by sticking her neck out to protect her employees. So I resigned, absent any other option.

Since I wasn't going out and doing anything during the shutdown, I was able to save almost all of the money I was paid during that time. I also saved the majority of my CARES Act stimulus money, as well as savings from other sources. So I will be fine until this all settles down, I hope.

During the shutdown, a couple of my (now-former) coworkers decided to start putting together a medical marijuana grow business (legal in Oklahoma), and I have been asked to join them to help with the administrative side of things, since I have been running a small business on the side for years. So, ironically, despite my being made fun of on here a couple years back for not knowing the price of weed, I now find myself part of the industry. Funny how life works out, huh?

Oklahoma's medpot laws look even easier to deal with than California's before that state legalized recreational MJ.  You might wind up working in a growing field...LOL!

(that can be taken two ways so enjoy a laugh)

Rick

[Scott5114]

Since I wasn't going out and doing anything during the shutdown, I was able to save almost all of the money I was paid during that time. I also saved the majority of my CARES Act stimulus money, as well as savings from other sources. So I will be fine until this all settles down, I hope.

During the shutdown, a couple of my (now-former) coworkers decided to start putting together a medical marijuana grow business (legal in Oklahoma), and I have been asked to join them to help with the administrative side of things, since I have been running a small business on the side for years. So, ironically, despite my being made fun of on here a couple years back for not knowing the price of weed, I now find myself part of the industry. Funny how life works out, huh?

Best wishes for success with the new venture!  It should be more fun and rewarding than your old job, which sounded like it afforded very little employee autonomy.

Thank you for the well wishes! Yes, that was one of the worst things about it. This lack of autonomy is mostly driven by a desire for compliance with gaming rules theoretically written to ensure compliance with NIGC regulations and the state-tribal gaming compact. However, it resulted in a management structure that is utterly inflexible on matters both big and small, and suffers the age-old problem that those writing and interpreting are people who do so by trade, and who are wholly alienated from what actually goes on at the front-line level. As someone who considers themselves a creative person, it was not really a great fit from the start, so it was always a question of not if but when I would be moving on. The pandemic basically served to hasten an exit that was inevitable in the long term.

I am excited about the new venture, because I have an established positive work history with my two partners, and we are very much on the same page when it comes to company culture and expectations. I am also happy to be rid of direct customer service obligations, which have never really been my cup of tea.

If masks work, then if you wore yours, it shouldn't have been an issue. Your risk wouldn't be that high.

The masks we were required to wear–we were not allowed to wear masks from home, only those provided by the facility–were disposable surgical masks. They were not N95 masks, so I don't believe they did anything meaningful to block incoming viral load, only outgoing.

Having said that, you should have made them fire you. Unless I misunderstand how it works, or unless state laws are different, if you're let go due to concerns over the virus, you're eligible for unemployment.

I had considered this course of action, but interpreting how state law might apply to tribal entities was fraught before McGirt v. Oklahoma, and is even more so now. I could have held out and tried to see what would happen, but honestly I don't need the stress in my life. It's better for my mental state to just be done with it and make a clean break.

Additionally, I am the fourth employee on the shift (out of ten scheduled per day) to leave their position this month, and the second for this specific reason. I am hoping my resignation will lead to better outcomes for my former coworkers, if for no other reason than they no longer have the available manpower to cover both regular duties and cleaning.

Oklahoma's medpot laws look even easier to deal with than California's before that state legalized recreational MJ.  You might wind up working in a growing field...LOL!

(that can be taken two ways so enjoy a laugh)

That's the hope! Oklahoma's laws are currently fairly strict compared to other states', but we are very early on in the legalization, so I'm hoping they'll be streamlined as time goes on. And with a growing movement for recreational here, there's definitely a lot of potential for growth, in both ways!

[Roadgeekteen]

This all came to a head when cases in Oklahoma started to spike again, and facility management (i.e. at a lower level than Ada) decided that all employees, including those not normally on the gaming floor, such as cage, vault, and soft count, would be required to spend part of the day out on the floor sanitizing machines. While I am not per se opposed to undertaking cleaning duties, the Chickasaw Nation had already hired an outside vendor to perform the same duties, in addition to the same duties being done by in-house housekeeping staff. To do this would mean exposing myself to the environment described above: smokers, drinkers, people with flimsy excuses for not wearing a mask. I was called in the office today and told that everyone in the department was required to clean the gaming floor, that there would be no exceptions, and that refusal to do so would result in disciplinary action.

If masks work, then if you wore yours, it shouldn't have been an issue. Your risk wouldn't be that high.

Having said that, you should have made them fire you. Unless I misunderstand how it works, or unless state laws are different, if you're let go due to concerns over the virus, you're eligible for unemployment.

Masks are more for protecting others than yourself.

[SEWIGuy]

https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavirus/article244429392.html#storylink=sectionheadlines

https://cbs12.com/news/local/i-team-deaths-incorrectly-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county?fbclid=IwAR3qMOusmGuhNDr1KcXYqs_FMayemQHABKWgW3WvbZO-8nEKaZPHYqK2dKY

See why so many are rightfully skeptical of what's being fed to us?

http://kentuckyvalleyviews.blogspot.com/2020/07/reasons-for-healthy-skepticism.html

Sigh

Already showed why this was bogus and how COVID deaths are actually being undercounted.

But yeah. Keep clinging to the info you want.

[SEWIGuy]

What BS?  The virus?  The preventive measures?  The political hype?

All of it.

Sweden has done a very good job at dealing with the virus. Look at these graphs:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden

Lol. This isn't going to end by wishing it away.

[SectorZ]

What BS?  The virus?  The preventive measures?  The political hype?

All of it.

Sweden has done a very good job at dealing with the virus. Look at these graphs:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden

America is not Sweden.

Like with heavy metal music, they're better than us in this case, too.

[Scott5114]

What BS?  The virus?  The preventive measures?  The political hype?

All of it.

Sweden has done a very good job at dealing with the virus. Look at these graphs:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden

America is not Sweden.

Like with heavy metal music, they're better than us in this case, too.

Hey, at least we don't have Tratex...

[ftballfan]

What BS?  The virus?  The preventive measures?  The political hype?

All of it.

Sweden has done a very good job at dealing with the virus. Look at these graphs:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden

America is not Sweden.

Michigan is Sweden:

-Michigan and Sweden have nearly identical populations. 
-Michigan and Sweden have similar covid deaths (6,395 in Michigan vs. 5,676 deaths in Sweden).
-Michigan and Sweden both saw recent upticks in daily cases without a corresponding increase in deaths.
-Michigan and Sweden were both hit hard by the virus in the Spring. 
-Michigan and Sweden have similar looking daily death curves.

I remember seeing in early April that Michigan was third in recorded cases (only behind New York and New Jersey). According to worldometers (which includes probable cases, which aren't included in some sources), Michigan is now 14th in cases and will likely get passed by VA, OH, MD, SC, and AL within the next 1 to 2 weeks.

[LM117]

SCOTUS has ruled in favor of Nevada, regarding it's policy of limiting the number of people attending church in person.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/politics/supreme-court-nevada-church/index.html

[kphoger]

I am also happy to be rid of direct customer service obligations, which have never really been my cup of tea.

In my opinion, that might end up being the brightest light on your horizon.  It's always good when a job change results in something more in line with your own personality.

[hbelkins]

https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavirus/article244429392.html#storylink=sectionheadlines

https://cbs12.com/news/local/i-team-deaths-incorrectly-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county?fbclid=IwAR3qMOusmGuhNDr1KcXYqs_FMayemQHABKWgW3WvbZO-8nEKaZPHYqK2dKY

See why so many are rightfully skeptical of what's being fed to us?

http://kentuckyvalleyviews.blogspot.com/2020/07/reasons-for-healthy-skepticism.html

Sigh

Already showed why this was bogus and how COVID deaths are actually being undercounted.

But yeah. Keep clinging to the info you want.

You get factual examples of deaths being misreported, and you still keep clinging to the info YOU want.

[US71]

https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavirus/article244429392.html#storylink=sectionheadlines

https://cbs12.com/news/local/i-team-deaths-incorrectly-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county?fbclid=IwAR3qMOusmGuhNDr1KcXYqs_FMayemQHABKWgW3WvbZO-8nEKaZPHYqK2dKY

See why so many are rightfully skeptical of what's being fed to us?

http://kentuckyvalleyviews.blogspot.com/2020/07/reasons-for-healthy-skepticism.html

Sigh

Already showed why this was bogus and how COVID deaths are actually being undercounted.

But yeah. Keep clinging to the info you want.

You get factual examples of deaths being misreported, and you still keep clinging to the info YOU want.

Who decides which numbers are correct? The CDC had their authority stripped by Trump  cuz, you know, those numbers make him look bad.