Control Cities

[jbnati27]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

Those have always driven me nuts, too. At least Statesville has a junction with I-40. I think Mt. Airy (another wait, what?) makes an appearance, too. Wytheville, VA also appears, but that one makes sense because there's a junction and overlap with I-81.

Mt. Airy is where I-74 meets I-77, so that makes sense as a control city between Statesville and Wytheville.

Well, sort of. It's about 15 miles to the East, but I guess it makes the most sense of anything in the vicinity.

[jbnati27]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

Those have always driven me nuts, too. At least Statesville has a junction with I-40. I think Mt. Airy (another wait, what?) makes an appearance, too. Wytheville, VA also appears, but that one makes sense because there's a junction and overlap with I-81.

Mt. Airy is where I-74 meets I-77, so that makes sense as a control city between Statesville and Wytheville.

Here's an example of Mount Airy's appearance as a control city: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2629826,-80.8245876,3a,75y,352.84h,98.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNgmIjD5UwxaOHNZ-fNNSCw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

Ironically, this is at Elkin and US-21 BYPASS has control cities of Sparta and Roaring Gap.

[mrsman]

I just thought of something. South of DC on I-95, the control city is Richmond, which is perfectly logical. But given the discussion of I-95 in NC and its tiny control cities, would it also be logical to replace Richmond with Fredericksburg--a city of far greater significance than the Wilsons and Dunns of the world?

The mistakes of other states should not be used as justification for changing what is already correct.  Richmond has far greater importance than Fredericksburg (interstate junction, largest city in VA, VA capital) and is already signed from DC on.  It isn't too far away and it is not more than one state away.  There is no need to replace Richmond with Fredericksburg.

That being said, I am a believer in signs portraying 2 control cities, if space permits and message loading isn't too adversely affected.  This would resolve a lot of the problems that NC and PA have with using towns that are too small to be useful.  They can be added to signs with well-known cities.  I wouldn't mind seeing Fredericksburg/Richmond controls from the DC area.  But if you're only keeping one, keep Richmond.

[Zzonkmiles]

I just thought of something. South of DC on I-95, the control city is Richmond, which is perfectly logical. But given the discussion of I-95 in NC and its tiny control cities, would it also be logical to replace Richmond with Fredericksburg--a city of far greater significance than the Wilsons and Dunns of the world?

The mistakes of other states should not be used as justification for changing what is already correct.  Richmond has far greater importance than Fredericksburg (interstate junction, largest city in VA, VA capital) and is already signed from DC on.  It isn't too far away and it is not more than one state away.  There is no need to replace Richmond with Fredericksburg.

That being said, I am a believer in signs portraying 2 control cities, if space permits and message loading isn't too adversely affected.  This would resolve a lot of the problems that NC and PA have with using towns that are too small to be useful.  They can be added to signs with well-known cities.  I wouldn't mind seeing Fredericksburg/Richmond controls from the DC area.  But if you're only keeping one, keep Richmond.

On the German autobahn, it's common to see four control cities on a sign. That might be a bit too much, but having two control cities per direction is preferable to using two or three separate signs where one sign says "NOT CONTROL CITY X NEXT RIGHT" and "NOT CONTROL CITY Y USE ROUTE ABC SOUTH."

[Tom958]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Semi-gravedig: I just saw this and thought, "Well, duh! New Haven is where you'd get on 91 to go not only to Hartford, but to Boston and anywhere north of there." Or is it? I googled New York to Boston and it suggests leaving 95 for CT 8 in Bridgeport, connecting to CT 15 Wilbur Cross Highway to get to 91. Between that and the junction with CT 8 itself, my useless opinion is now that Bridgeport would be the better choice.

[WashuOtaku]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

Those have always driven me nuts, too. At least Statesville has a junction with I-40. I think Mt. Airy (another wait, what?) makes an appearance, too. Wytheville, VA also appears, but that one makes sense because there's a junction and overlap with I-81.

Mt. Airy is where I-74 meets I-77, so that makes sense as a control city between Statesville and Wytheville.

Here's an example of Mount Airy's appearance as a control city: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2629826,-80.8245876,3a,75y,352.84h,98.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNgmIjD5UwxaOHNZ-fNNSCw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

Ironically, this is at Elkin and US-21 BYPASS has control cities of Sparta and Roaring Gap.

Part of it was when I-77 was completed and what existed at the time.  The early completed parts of I-77 went to Fort Chiswell, thus the oldest signs list that.  When I-77 was completed in North Carolina, then Wytheville became the control city.  Since 2000 or after I-74 was established, Mount Airy became the control city.  The problem, sadly is that they have older signs scattered with newer signs making confusion, not consistent. 

Oddly, still doesn't explain why Elkin is a control city northbound but southbound completely ignores it. 

[The Nature Boy]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Semi-gravedig: I just saw this and thought, "Well, duh! New Haven is where you'd get on 91 to go not only to Hartford, but to Boston and anywhere north of there." Or is it? I googled New York to Boston and it suggests leaving 95 for CT 8 in Bridgeport, connecting to CT 15 Wilbur Cross Highway to get to 91. Between that and the junction with CT 8 itself, my useless opinion is now that Bridgeport would be the better choice.

If I were going from NYC to Boston and not leaving the interstate system, I'd go 95-91-84-90. I've done that route and it's roughly the same as taking the parkway system. New Haven still works since I imagine that most non-road people would stick to the interstate and that CT would want to funnel Boston bound traffic onto I-91.

[mrsman]

Bridgeport is Connecticut's largest city by population, yet New Haven gets control right from The Bronx in NYC.

Semi-gravedig: I just saw this and thought, "Well, duh! New Haven is where you'd get on 91 to go not only to Hartford, but to Boston and anywhere north of there." Or is it? I googled New York to Boston and it suggests leaving 95 for CT 8 in Bridgeport, connecting to CT 15 Wilbur Cross Highway to get to 91. Between that and the junction with CT 8 itself, my useless opinion is now that Bridgeport would be the better choice.

If I were going from NYC to Boston and not leaving the interstate system, I'd go 95-91-84-90. I've done that route and it's roughly the same as taking the parkway system. New Haven still works since I imagine that most non-road people would stick to the interstate and that CT would want to funnel Boston bound traffic onto I-91.

That's probably the best way to go to Boston.  But if CT wants traffic to use that routing, they need to put Boston as a secondary control city at the 95/91 interchange for I-91 north.

[roadman65]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

Those have always driven me nuts, too. At least Statesville has a junction with I-40. I think Mt. Airy (another wait, what?) makes an appearance, too. Wytheville, VA also appears, but that one makes sense because there's a junction and overlap with I-81.

Mt. Airy is where I-74 meets I-77, so that makes sense as a control city between Statesville and Wytheville.

Here's an example of Mount Airy's appearance as a control city: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2629826,-80.8245876,3a,75y,352.84h,98.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNgmIjD5UwxaOHNZ-fNNSCw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

Ironically, this is at Elkin and US-21 BYPASS has control cities of Sparta and Roaring Gap.

Part of it was when I-77 was completed and what existed at the time.  The early completed parts of I-77 went to Fort Chiswell, thus the oldest signs list that.  When I-77 was completed in North Carolina, then Wytheville became the control city.  Since 2000 or after I-74 was established, Mount Airy became the control city.  The problem, sadly is that they have older signs scattered with newer signs making confusion, not consistent. 

Oddly, still doesn't explain why Elkin is a control city northbound but southbound completely ignores it. 

Try I-95, as between Fayetteville and Rocky Mount it changes going northbound.  You will see some ramps that say Smithfield, some will use Dunn,  some even now feature Benson, and then some will even use Wilson, but no Rocky Mount except from what I have seen on I-40.  Going SB from Rocky Mount it goes from Wilson, to Smithfield, to Dunn,  to even Benson now, and finally  Fayetteville is first mentioned at I-40 in some places.

Even though all are good and have significance like Smithfield with its lodging and fast food is a meal and sleep stop for many and of course JR's made that city famous, even though in Selma, however most consider Smithfield and Selma to be synonymous, still no consistency going either way.  Why wait to I-40 to feature Fayetteville when it is the large city along the route.  Also why cannot Rocky Mount be signed full time from I-40 on north?

NC is so inconsistent even on I-40 at Asheville using Hickory at one ramp and then Statesville at another.  Heck at one ramp east of the city it uses "Black Mountain" which is the first town east of Asheville within ten minutes of the interchange its signed at.

[Roadgeekteen]

Sorry for the bump, but I was reading about I-95 in NC's cities. I think that all the little towns, junction or not, are worthless and the only cities used should be Fayetville, Richmond, and Savannah. Maybe Florence.

[ibthebigd]

Ashland Ky on I-64 should be Huntington or Charleston WV.

SM-G950U

[kendancy66]

One thing that has frustrated me about I-77 north of Charlotte is how even though there are no cities of any real significance at all until you reach Charleston, WV, the control cities keep changing. I think the control cities north of Charlotte are Statesville (fine), Elkin (wait, what?), Fort Chiswell (wait, what?) and Bluefield or Beckley (I can't remember; I'm not from the area, so I can't judge here). Then the control city becomes Charleston. But the control cities south of Charleston are Bluefield/Beckley and Charlotte only. Those no-name towns are totally ignored. I don't like the inconsistencies here.

Those have always driven me nuts, too. At least Statesville has a junction with I-40. I think Mt. Airy (another wait, what?) makes an appearance, too. Wytheville, VA also appears, but that one makes sense because there's a junction and overlap with I-81.

Mt. Airy is where I-74 meets I-77, so that makes sense as a control city between Statesville and Wytheville.

Here's an example of Mount Airy's appearance as a control city: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.2629826,-80.8245876,3a,75y,352.84h,98.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNgmIjD5UwxaOHNZ-fNNSCw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

Ironically, this is at Elkin and US-21 BYPASS has control cities of Sparta and Roaring Gap.

Part of it was when I-77 was completed and what existed at the time.  The early completed parts of I-77 went to Fort Chiswell, thus the oldest signs list that.  When I-77 was completed in North Carolina, then Wytheville became the control city.  Since 2000 or after I-74 was established, Mount Airy became the control city.  The problem, sadly is that they have older signs scattered with newer signs making confusion, not consistent. 

Oddly, still doesn't explain why Elkin is a control city northbound but southbound completely ignores it. 

One reason was that at one time (up to around to at least 1976-77) I-77 in NC, was only completed to Elkin, and merged into the US-21 BY-PASS.  Then you had to take 21 all the way to Wytheville. I actually drove it at that time from Charlotte to Wytheville.

[Dirt Roads]

Oddly, still doesn't explain why Elkin is a control city northbound but southbound completely ignores it. 

One reason was that at one time (up to around to at least 1976-77) I-77 in NC, was only completed to Elkin, and merged into the US-21 BY-PASS.  Then you had to take 21 all the way to Wytheville. I actually drove it at that time from Charlotte to Wytheville.

Just another reason that Elkin as a control city didn't make sense.  At that time, it was much better to take US-52 from Wytheville to Mt. Airy, then US-601 and cut across to get back to I-77.   Even after chunks of I-77 opened up, it was better to use some routing over US-52.  At one time, heavy two-lane traffic on US-52 from Fort Chiswell to Hillsville made it better to use I-81 north to VA-100 south.  But it always seemed as if North Carolina was pushing northbound traffic up US-21.

By the way, even after huge chunks of I-77 opened it was best to take the new Corridor Q (US-460) to Pearisburg and run down all of VA-100 and just avoid I-77 in Virginia altogether.  (New thread anyone?)

[The Nature Boy]

Sorry for the bump, but I was reading about I-95 in NC's cities. I think that all the little towns, junction or not, are worthless and the only cities used should be Fayetville, Richmond, and Savannah. Maybe Florence.

I would agree.

You need an SC control city though and Florence is probably the best option since it's where I-20 and 95 meet and where you would diverge to go to Columbia and Charleston.

[bing101]

I-80 and US-101 Civic Center for San Francisco but that was once a common control city when the Central Freeway was there but it was demolished for Octavia blvd. Renovations.

[I-55]

Ashland Ky on I-64 should be Huntington or Charleston WV.

SM-G950U

And for that matter the westbound control directly out of Huntington should be Lexington instead of Ashland

[Roadgeekteen]

IMO the only in state control cities in WV should be Charleston, Wheeling, Martinsburg, Huntington, Morganstown, Beckley, and maybe White Sulfur Springs. Pittsburgh on I-79, Cleveland and Charlotte on I-77, Richmond on I-64.

[thenetwork]

IMO the only in state control cities in WV should be Charleston, Wheeling, Martinsburg, Huntington, Morganstown, Berkeley, and maybe White Sulfur Springs. Pittsburgh on I-79, Cleveland and Charlotte on I-77, Richmond on I-64.

What about I-68 East:  Baltimore/Washington, DC or just Hagerstown?

[Roadgeekteen]

IMO the only in state control cities in WV should be Charleston, Wheeling, Martinsburg, Huntington, Morganstown, Berkeley, and maybe White Sulfur Springs. Pittsburgh on I-79, Cleveland and Charlotte on I-77, Richmond on I-64.

What about I-68 East:  Baltimore/Washington, DC or just Hagerstown?

Cumberland, with Baltimore or DC at the I-79 interchange.

[Dirt Roads]

IMO the only in state control cities in WV should be Charleston, Wheeling, Martinsburg, Huntington, Morganstown, Berkeley, and maybe White Sulfur Springs. Pittsburgh on I-79, Cleveland and Charlotte on I-77, Richmond on I-64.

Good list, but the Parkersburg CMSA is large enough to be included as a control destination (just a hair under 150K population, and even the Ohio folks will admit to living in the Parkersburg area).  But your comment is important, since Cleveland is so much larger that at least one control destination reference to Browns City at the split in Charleston would be justified, plus an occasional reassurance along the way. 

It used to be hard to justify Martinsburg (given the proximity of Winchester and Hagerstown), but the population of the Eastern Panhandle has grown to almost 220K (surpassing both of those siblings).  Your choice of Beckley is also justified because of its importance as a major crossroad junction.  Note that the DOH has a hard time picking between Lewisburg (pop 3800+, county seat of Greenbrier County) and White Sulphur Springs (pop 2400-, best known town in Greenbrier County).

[KCRoadFan]

Your choice of Beckley is also justified because of its importance as a major crossroad junction.

In a similar vein, I think I-64 east of Beckley should use Lexington, VA as a control city, since that city is at the south junction of I-64 and I-81. (That is, unless they already do so.)

[1995hoo]

IMO the only in state control cities in WV should be Charleston, Wheeling, Martinsburg, Huntington, Morganstown, Berkeley, and maybe White Sulfur Springs. Pittsburgh on I-79, Cleveland and Charlotte on I-77, Richmond on I-64.

Now THAT would be a contender on the "distant control cities" list.

[Roadgeekteen]

IMO the only in state control cities in WV should be Charleston, Wheeling, Martinsburg, Huntington, Morganstown, Berkeley, and maybe White Sulfur Springs. Pittsburgh on I-79, Cleveland and Charlotte on I-77, Richmond on I-64.

Now THAT would be a contender on the "distant control cities" list.

There is somehow is a Berkeley WV which probably threw me off.

[amroad17]

IMO the only in state control cities in WV should be Charleston, Wheeling, Martinsburg, Huntington, Morganstown, Berkeley, and maybe White Sulfur Springs. Pittsburgh on I-79, Cleveland and Charlotte on I-77, Richmond on I-64.

What about I-68 East:  Baltimore/Washington, DC or just Hagerstown?

Cumberland, with Baltimore or DC at the I-79 interchange.

I have posted in another thread that WVDOT should put up a supplemental sign on I-79 North for I-68 East.  It should read "Baltimore (Line 1), Washington, DC (Line 2), EXIT 148 (Line 3).  The current I-68 control cities are fine.

I have posted about many thoughts I have had about control cities in this and other threads.  Sticking with this interchange, the control cities for I-79 there in Morgantown should be Charleston and Pittsburgh--not Fairmont and Washington, PA.  And staying in WV, it would be nice to see a 3-panel sign put up in Charleston for the I-64/I-77 split similar to what is near Beckley for the I-64/I-77 split there, having motorists use I-64 for Richmond and I-77 for Charlotte.  It could have (left panel-2 lines) Louisville USE I-64 WEST, (center panel- 2 lines) Cleveland USE I-77 NORTH, (right panel-2 lines) Pittsburgh USE I-79 NORTH.  I realize most motorists wanting to go to Pittsburgh from the south will use US 19 out of Beckley, however, the sign in Charleston would be for motorists that are originating from the Chelyan area to the eastern downtown Charleston area.  I also believe there should be an auxiliary sign on the WV Tpk just south of US 19 reading Pittsburgh EXIT 48.

As far as what KCRoadFan has posted, Lexington, VA is listed on almost every, if not every, mileage sign on I-64 East from the I-64/I-77 split in Beckley all the way to the post interchange mileage sign east of EXIT 50 outside of Lexington, VA.  Lewisburg is on the BGS there in Beckley; Lexington, VA is listed from EXIT 169 (US 219) on east at the interchanges.

I agree with what I-55 posted about Lexington, KY.  If I am not mistaken, when I-64 was completed in Kentucky, Huntington was the EB control city, then Ashland replaced it years later.  Did the same happen in the Huntington area where Ashland may have replaced Lexington as a control city?  There are two or three mileage signs along I-64 West listing the distance to Lexington as far back as within the EXIT 18 interchange. 

[amroad17]

Oddly, still doesn't explain why Elkin is a control city northbound but southbound completely ignores it. 

One reason was that at one time (up to around to at least 1976-77) I-77 in NC, was only completed to Elkin, and merged into the US-21 BY-PASS.  Then you had to take 21 all the way to Wytheville. I actually drove it at that time from Charlotte to Wytheville.

Just another reason that Elkin as a control city didn't make sense.  At that time, it was much better to take US-52 from Wytheville to Mt. Airy, then US-601 and cut across to get back to I-77.   Even after chunks of I-77 opened up, it was better to use some routing over US-52.  At one time, heavy two-lane traffic on US-52 from Fort Chiswell to Hillsville made it better to use I-81 north to VA-100 south.  But it always seemed as if North Carolina was pushing northbound traffic up US-21.

By the way, even after huge chunks of I-77 opened it was best to take the new Corridor Q (US-460) to Pearisburg and run down all of VA-100 and just avoid I-77 in Virginia altogether.  (New thread anyone?)

This is what happened when the Interstates were built in the late 1950's through the early 1980's.  DOT's would put up a sign for the control city that the Interstate ended at.  Then when the Interstate was extended, signs would not be updated, and then were carbon copied when sign replacement projects occurred.  This seems very prevalent in North Carolina. 

I-77 should use Charlotte, Statesville, and then Wytheville, VA NB.  Elkin was used because this is where I-77 ended for years until NC and VA could determine where to build I-77 between there and Hillsville, VA (as posted by kendancy66).  When I-77 was finished in NC by 1977 and in Virginia by 1978 (the independent sections, not the I-81 overlap), signs should have been updated listing Wytheville to reflect this extension.  Mount Airy is a bit away from I-77 and Fort Chiswell, although near a junction for two Interstates, is more of a small community than a city or a town such as Wytheville.

I believe most of us posters would be satisfied with consistency instead of seeing the hodgepodge of control city signage that is currently out there such as the I-40 East examples in Asheville.

Sorry for the bump, but I was reading about I-95 in NC's cities. I think that all the little towns, junction or not, are worthless and the only cities used should be Fayetville, Richmond, and Savannah. Maybe Florence.

Should be...

I-95 NB (from Jacksonville): Savannah, Florence, Fayetteville, Rocky Mount, Richmond, Washington, DC
I-95 SB (from Northern Virginia): Richmond, Rocky Mount, Fayetteville, Florence, Savannah, Jacksonville

Just because two Interstates junction near a small area, small town, or small city does not mean that place needs to be used.  For example, I will use the junction of I-69 and the Indiana Toll Road.  Angola, IN is not listed on any BGS's, except at the interchange itself.  I-69 uses Ft. Wayne and Lansing, the Toll Road uses Chicago and Toledo as control cities.

North Carolina and even more so, Pennsylvania, should start using decent-sized logical (what's that?) control cities on their freeways.  I-80 throughout Pennsylvania should do what Illinois does at the major interchanges (I-79, I-99/US 220/PA 26, US 220, US 15, I-180, I-81 {New York NB-Cleveland SB}, I-380 {Hazleton-New York})--use major control cities (Cleveland-New York).  The other interchanges could use the following...

I-80 EB (from the I-376 interchange): DuBois, Williamsport, Hazleton, Stroudsburg, New York
I-80 WB (from the I-287 interchange in NJ): Stroudsburg, PA (NO Del Water Gap!!!), Hazleton, Williamsport, DuBois, Sharon, Youngstown