Fritzowling in the 50s and 60s

[kernals12]

I think that some highway planners in the 50s and 60s just threw lines on maps to see what stuck. Here are some examples

Seattle, 1957:


Portland, 1960s:


Denver, 1960s:


Detroit, 1951:


Dallas-Fort Worth, 1967:


Max Concrete knows everything there is to know about highways in Texas, and he says in his book that many of those lines in the 1967 DFW plan were not taken seriously, with basically no effort expended in trying to build them. Similarly, in Portland, everyone knows about the revolt against the Mount Hood Freeway which marked the beginning of that city's fruitless war on the automobile, but I haven't found anything about the Sellwood or the 52nd Avenue Freeways. So it's clear that planners were drawing lines for freeways that they knew would never get built. But why? Was it just out of fantasy?

[Max Rockatansky]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH). 

[kernals12]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

[Max Rockatansky]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

Sometimes it can be as simple as an ugly structure like was planned for I-10 in downtown Phoenix.  People lost their minds over having a potentially (FWIW the design was terrible looking) elevated freeway bisecting the downtown area. 

[kernals12]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

Sometimes it can be as simple as an ugly structure like was planned for I-10 in downtown Phoenix.  People lost their minds over having a potentially (FWIW the design was terrible looking) elevated freeway bisecting the downtown area.

You mean those helicoils? I don't know, I feel like they would've become an iconic landmark.

[kernals12]

Today, 8 mile road is infamous for marking the stark divide between impoverished mostly black Detroit and its tony white suburbs. Imagine if it were a freeway.

[Max Rockatansky]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to us the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

Sometimes it can be as simple as an ugly structure like was planned for I-10 in downtown Phoenix.  People lost their minds over having a potentially (FWIW the design was terrible looking) elevated freeway bisecting the downtown area.

You mean those helicoils? I don't know, I feel like they would've become an iconic landmark.

Like the Embarcadero Freeway and Alaskan Way Viaduct did?  The Deck Park Tunnel was an infinitely better design and didn't disrupt much on the surface level.

[Max Rockatansky]

Today, 8 mile road is infamous for marking the stark divide between impoverished mostly black Detroit and its tony white suburbs. Imagine if it were a freeway.

8 Mile never needed to be a freeway, it flows well enough as is.  Detroit's problems with racial inequity go way further historically than just road development. 

[kernals12]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to us the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

Sometimes it can be as simple as an ugly structure like was planned for I-10 in downtown Phoenix.  People lost their minds over having a potentially (FWIW the design was terrible looking) elevated freeway bisecting the downtown area.

You mean those helicoils? I don't know, I feel like they would've become an iconic landmark.

Like the Embarcadero Freeway and Alaskan Way Viaduct did?  The Deck Park Tunnel was an infinitely better design and didn't disrupt much on the surface level.

LA's 4 level stack has become an icon.

[kernals12]

Today, 8 mile road is infamous for marking the stark divide between impoverished mostly black Detroit and its tony white suburbs. Imagine if it were a freeway.

8 Mile never needed to be a freeway, it flows well enough as is.  Detroit's problems with racial inequity go way further historically than just road development.

I know, but talk about heavy handed symbolism

[Henry]

If anything, Robert Moses was the FritzOwl of his time, because he also wanted to build freeways everywhere. While many proposals were practical, they were just poorly executed. I've dug up even more maps below to prove this.

New York City:


Philadelphia:


Baltimore:



Washington, DC:



Atlanta:

[kernals12]

If anything, Robert Moses was the FritzOwl of his time, because he also wanted to build freeways everywhere. While many proposals were practical, they were just poorly executed. I've dug up even more maps below to prove this.

New York City:


Philadelphia:


Baltimore:



Washington, DC:



Atlanta:

The difference is most of those freeways made it to the planning stage.

[Max Rockatansky]

Today, 8 mile road is infamous for marking the stark divide between impoverished mostly black Detroit and its tony white suburbs. Imagine if it were a freeway.

8 Mile never needed to be a freeway, it flows well enough as is.  Detroit's problems with racial inequity go way further historically than just road development.

I know, but talk about heavy handed symbolism

What 8 Mile?  8 Mile is just the north City Limit and nowhere near what popular culture presents it to be.  My Grandparents off of 8 Mile and Grand River, it definitely wasn't anything all that notable until it had a movie named after it.

[Tonytone]

If anything, Robert Moses was the FritzOwl of his time, because he also wanted to build freeways everywhere. While many proposals were practical, they were just poorly executed. I've dug up even more maps below to prove this.

New York City:


Philadelphia:


Baltimore:



Washington, DC:



Atlanta:

Woo that Philly 309 & 695 one would have been crazy. Definitely would have gave philly a more urban 676 vibe in many more areas then it is now. 


iPhone

[kernals12]

If anything, Robert Moses was the FritzOwl of his time, because he also wanted to build freeways everywhere. While many proposals were practical, they were just poorly executed. I've dug up even more maps below to prove this.

New York City:


Philadelphia:


Baltimore:



Washington, DC:



Atlanta:

How come I can't see any of the photos?

[Scott5114]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

[kernals12]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

how can i fix that?

[kendancy66]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

how can i fix that?

You can see it if you right click in the blank image.  Then select open image in a new tab

[webny99]

I'm surprised anything with Fritz Owl in the title isn't automatically re-routed to the Fictional Board.

[kernals12]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

how can i fix that?

You can see it if you right click in the blank image.  Then select open image in a new tab

Thank you so much

[DTComposer]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to us the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

Sometimes it can be as simple as an ugly structure like was planned for I-10 in downtown Phoenix.  People lost their minds over having a potentially (FWIW the design was terrible looking) elevated freeway bisecting the downtown area.

You mean those helicoils? I don't know, I feel like they would've become an iconic landmark.

Like the Embarcadero Freeway and Alaskan Way Viaduct did?  The Deck Park Tunnel was an infinitely better design and didn't disrupt much on the surface level.

LA's 4 level stack has become an icon.

It's hardly a stack in the modern sense - US-101 is the top level and hardly gets 15 feet above surface streets, so it's not blocking any views. And it's located at what is today the northwestern corner of downtown, but at the time was a mile or so from the CBD, so it didn't (and doesn't) bisect downtown L.A.

I'd argue that the Four-Level's iconic status is less from any visual impact (really, as you approach and then go through it you don't get the sense that you're encountering anything significant) and more from its historical significance as the first stack interchange.

Meanwhile, here's one of L.A.'s "Master Plans" for freeways, from 1957:

(this image is difficult to read, but the original, much larger image can be found here:
http://libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGTL/maps/1957a_MasterPlan_Freeways.jpg

[Scott5114]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

how can i fix that?

Using Firefox is a good way of doing it, since that way you aren't dependent on whatever stupid thing the Google marketing department comes up with next.

If you must use Chrome, go into your settings and set it to allow "mixed content".

[Bruce]

The first map in this thread was my own attempt at making up numbers for once-planned freeways.

[Max Rockatansky]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to us the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

Sometimes it can be as simple as an ugly structure like was planned for I-10 in downtown Phoenix.  People lost their minds over having a potentially (FWIW the design was terrible looking) elevated freeway bisecting the downtown area.

You mean those helicoils? I don't know, I feel like they would've become an iconic landmark.

Like the Embarcadero Freeway and Alaskan Way Viaduct did?  The Deck Park Tunnel was an infinitely better design and didn't disrupt much on the surface level.

LA's 4 level stack has become an icon.

It's hardly a stack in the modern sense - US-101 is the top level and hardly gets 15 feet above surface streets, so it's not blocking any views. And it's located at what is today the northwestern corner of downtown, but at the time was a mile or so from the CBD, so it didn't (and doesn't) bisect downtown L.A.

I'd argue that the Four-Level's iconic status is less from any visual impact (really, as you approach and then go through it you don't get the sense that you're encountering anything significant) and more from its historical significance as the first stack interchange.

Meanwhile, here's one of L.A.'s "Master Plans" for freeways, from 1957:

(this image is difficult to read, but the original, much larger image can be found here:
http://libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGTL/maps/1957a_MasterPlan_Freeways.jpg

Regarding the Four Level Interchange, here is a look from my photo stock:

https://flic.kr/p/2g3j36h

Like you said not exactly a stunner, especially compared to modern conventions.  The semi-Arc Deco design is apparent though and is one of the first indications of what is to come on the Arroyo Seco Parkway. 

[kernals12]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

how can i fix that?

Using Firefox is a good way of doing it, since that way you aren't dependent on whatever stupid thing the Google marketing department comes up with next.

If you must use Chrome, go into your settings and set it to allow "mixed content".

You are awesome