Funny money?

[kkt]

The value of a coin above its face value belongs to the person who knows about and pays attention to the coins they get.

Makes sense. Could that person be the shop owner in this scenario? Can "get" mean "receive in the form of legal tender collected by one's employee or agent"? Or can it only mean "have direct sensory knowledge of and physical contact with"?

That might actually depend on the contractual stipulations by which the cashier operates the register.

Yes.  In most cases, cashiers can swap ordinary money for money of special value.  The chances of something of really great value are infinitesimal.  Maybe they find a 90% silver quarter every 5 years or so; even if they're worth $6.00 the business isn't really out very much money.  The very valuable coins are generally valued in part for their condition; once the coin has been kicking around in someone's pocket it's by definition less valuable.  However, I expect there are some businesses that make rules against swapping coins out of the till and instruct employees that if they find silver coins or other valuable coins they are to be set aside for the business's benefit.  Maybe companies that deal in large numbers of coins -- vending machines or slot machines -- set up automatic testing for silver coins; I wonder how many it would take to break even.

[Scott5114]

My guess would be that legally since the cashier is an employee of the business, they are an authorized agent of the business and can thus authorize currency swaps (barring any rule to the contrary from the employer).

I work at a casino and there is a cashier that buys stuff from her drawer if it catches her fancy. If a company deals with that much cash, it doesn't have time to worry about any individual bill or coin. When you have tens of thousands in cash sitting around, most of the time a human doesn't even see it since it just whirs by in a bill counting machine with thousands of other bills. Coins are even less likely to be visually examined since large volumes of them are counted by weight.

[corco]

The value of a coin above its face value belongs to the person who knows about and pays attention to the coins they get.

Makes sense. Could that person be the shop owner in this scenario? Can "get" mean "receive in the form of legal tender collected by one's employee or agent"? Or can it only mean "have direct sensory knowledge of and physical contact with"?

That might actually depend on the contractual stipulations by which the cashier operates the register.

Yes.  In most cases, cashiers can swap ordinary money for money of special value.  The chances of something of really great value are infinitesimal.  Maybe they find a 90% silver quarter every 5 years or so; even if they're worth $6.00 the business isn't really out very much money.  The very valuable coins are generally valued in part for their condition; once the coin has been kicking around in someone's pocket it's by definition less valuable.  However, I expect there are some businesses that make rules against swapping coins out of the till and instruct employees that if they find silver coins or other valuable coins they are to be set aside for the business's benefit.  Maybe companies that deal in large numbers of coins -- vending machines or slot machines -- set up automatic testing for silver coins; I wonder how many it would take to break even.

I would say that in the case where you have the occasional employee that looks for such things, and those folks would typically be in the minority, it'd be one of those things you wouldn't prohibit just from a morale standpoint- if it keeps your cashier happy to look for silver coins, that's worth the occasional chance of missing out on a coin worth a couple dollars that in all likelihood wouldn't have been caught anyway. In bugo's case, that's clearly something he enjoys about his job- if they took that ability away from him, he'd probably like his job a bit less. Assuming his duties are otherwise being satisfactorily performed and it isn't a distraction, then for any reasonable employer that's worth the negligible amount of money lost.

[JMoses24]

The value of a coin is whatever the possessor can get from it. In a business transaction, anything presented as legal tender is valued at face value. You can conduct a business transaction with the cash register, exchanging $20 for 5 gold stellas (this is a very hypothetical scenario, of course), and it's perfectly legal as long as the stellas are in there as legal tender, and not sold as goods. Once they are in your possession, you can then seek to sell them as goods instead of offering them as legal tender. And, as happens often with old coins, someone who purchases them as goods can turn around and reoffer them as legal tender as long as they have not been altered or defaced.

Speaking of currency being sold as goods, did you know that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing does indeed sell some uncut sheets of US currency? I'm not sure if they can be re-offered as legal tender, though I'm guessing that unless there's some security features missing you could if you wanted to do so. I'd say, though, that most people probably wouldn't want to do that, anyway, as they're meant to be collectors items.

[mgk920]

The value of a coin is whatever the possessor can get from it. In a business transaction, anything presented as legal tender is valued at face value. You can conduct a business transaction with the cash register, exchanging $20 for 5 gold stellas (this is a very hypothetical scenario, of course), and it's perfectly legal as long as the stellas are in there as legal tender, and not sold as goods. Once they are in your possession, you can then seek to sell them as goods instead of offering them as legal tender. And, as happens often with old coins, someone who purchases them as goods can turn around and reoffer them as legal tender as long as they have not been altered or defaced.

Speaking of currency being sold as goods, did you know that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing does indeed sell some uncut sheets of US currency? I'm not sure if they can be re-offered as legal tender, though I'm guessing that unless there's some security features missing you could if you wanted to do so. I'd say, though, that most people probably wouldn't want to do that, anyway, as they're meant to be collectors items.

It is perfectly legal to cut up uncut sheets and spend the notes.  Note that they are in a different serial number range than regular issued notes, this to prevent ne'er-do-wells from creating their own 'error' notes.

Mike

[bugo]

These coins would go straight to the bank at face value if I didn't buy them and they would either be sent to the mint for melting or would end up being rolled up.

KKT: I have found many interesting coins in the six months that I've been working at the store: numerous wheat pennies going as far back as 1910, almost 30 silver Roosevelt dimes going back as far back as 1946, a 1912 V nickel, a 1964 silver quarter, numerous 1965-1969 40% silver Kennedy halves, 2 90% silver Franklin halves, and several Ike dollar coins (no silver dollars yet...)  I've also found some interesting foreign coins, like a Canadian penny with the King on it, a 1967 Canadian centennial penny with the bird on it, and a British half penny from 1861.  There are neat coins out there, you just have to go through a lot of change or to be at the right place at the right time to find them.

I don't sell any of the coins I find, so there's no monetary gain.  It's all a hobby for me.

[Scott5114]

I used to find all sorts of neat things at Burger King, though I mostly focused on paper money. Found bills as old as the 40s.

[bugo]

I haven't found any bills older than a Series 1969 $10 bill and I've only found a few pre-1996 $5, $10, $20, $50, bills and one $100 bill.  When I buy them, I stick them back when I get them but end up spending most of them.  I wasn't able to purchase the $50 or the $100 bill, but I stared at them for a few minutes.  We were looking at the $50 bill when a customer overheard us and asked us about it.  I showed it to him and he bought it from us.  I hope he saved it.

[bugo]

Pile of silver dimes:



Beat up silver dimes:



Silver quarter:



1943 steel penny (I actually bought this from a regular customer.  I saw it in her hand and asked if she'd take a dollar for it and she accepted.  It's probably only worth half that, but it was worth it for me.):



1861 British half penny:



1912 V nickel:



Franklin halves obverse:



Franklin halves reverse:



Weird token (does anybody have any information on this coin?):




I like to think that I'm retiring these old veterans.  They put in sometimes over 100 years of service and they deserve a rest.   I like to preserve them in their various conditions.  I like to pull them out of circulation rather than to buy on ebay or at a coin shop.  It's much more thrilling.  It's like finding a treasure.  I will buy coins that I could not obtain otherwise, like a 1944-D dime and a 1973-S (my birth year) 40% silver Ike dollar.  I also bought a bicentennial Eisenhower dollar off ebay for my 1976 collection but I eventually found one in circulation.  I hope that when I pass on that I can leave them to somebody who will appreciate them in the way I do and won't just want to sell them for a quick buck.  I don't have anything that is really worth more than a few bucks, so they wouldn't get much out of them anyway.

[kkt]

These coins would go straight to the bank at face value if I didn't buy them and they would either be sent to the mint for melting or would end up being rolled up.

KKT: I have found many interesting coins in the six months that I've been working at the store: numerous wheat pennies going as far back as 1910, almost 30 silver Roosevelt dimes going back as far back as 1946, a 1912 V nickel, a 1964 silver quarter, numerous 1965-1969 40% silver Kennedy halves, 2 90% silver Franklin halves, and several Ike dollar coins (no silver dollars yet...)  I've also found some interesting foreign coins, like a Canadian penny with the King on it, a 1967 Canadian centennial penny with the bird on it, and a British half penny from 1861.  There are neat coins out there, you just have to go through a lot of change or to be at the right place at the right time to find them.

I don't sell any of the coins I find, so there's no monetary gain.  It's all a hobby for me.

Wow, you've done better than I would have thought.  Even so, I don't think it would be worth the storekeeper's while to pay someone to find valuable coins among the change, and it is good for morale among the cashiers to let them buy them at face value.

[bugo]

There is a whole group of people that are convinced that 50c pieces are somehow "collectable".  Untrue.  They have no value over their value as money, and, in fact, since many 100s of times of these are kept out of circulation than other coins, are likely, generations from now when they actually reach a collectable age, to be worth far less than other old coins.

There also are people that value $2 bills, "star notes" (notes where a number is replaced by a star in the serial, which is simply a part of the accounting system and has no meaning), "double Texas notes" (notes bearing the "FW" mark indicating being printed in Fort Worth rather than Washington, and being from the Dallas FR branch)  and other such.  None are collectable.

Sure they are.  Anything that somebody collects is by definition "collectable".  Older $2 bills are collected, and star notes are very sought after by collectors (I don't have any in my modest collection.)  Not all coin collectors are in it for the money.  I save every half dollar that I find just because I like them. 

Speaking of halves, every half before 1971 is sought after simply for the silver content.

[bugo]

Since I, and anyone, can obtain an unlimited amount of 50c pieces at exactly 50c per at any bank, they would be extremely stupid people.  One might as well say that because a few dolts think McDonald's Big Macs are "collectable" it makes it so.  The are, rather, worth whatever you local McDonald's sells them for.

You can't find half dollars at many banks.  I've asked for them several times, and they said they didn't carry them.  Wrong again, SP.
Post Merge: November 30, 2013, 04:42:43 PM

With a bit of notice, I can have as many 50 cent pieces that I can afford to "buy", random dates from 1965-the end of production, for exactly 50 cents each. 

Show me where there is a bank that keeps '65-'70 halves in stock.

[Scott5114]

Since I, and anyone, can obtain an unlimited amount of 50c pieces at exactly 50c per at any bank, they would be extremely stupid people.  One might as well say that because a few dolts think McDonald's Big Macs are "collectable" it makes it so.  The are, rather, worth whatever you local McDonald's sells them for.

You can't find half dollars at many banks.  I've asked for them several times, and they said they didn't carry them.  Wrong again, SP.

I would imagine that you could do the same song-and-dance that you have to do to get $2 bills...call in advance and have them order them from the Fed for you to pick up. Try Bank of Oklahoma–they are quite happy to order $2 bills, even if you don't have an account.

[SP Cook]

You can't find half dollars at many banks.  I've asked for them several times, and they said they didn't carry them.  Wrong again, SP.

My bank, given two days notice, will pay my entire account in 50 cent pieces, $2 bills, SBAs or any other NON-COLLECTABLE form of US money.  So will yours. 

If you wish to believe that NON-COLLECTABLE money is collectable, have at it.  I will gladly sell you ANY AMOUNT of 50 cent pieces for $1 each.  I will make exactly 50 cents on each.

[jeffandnicole]

Since I, and anyone, can obtain an unlimited amount of 50c pieces at exactly 50c per at any bank, they would be extremely stupid people.  One might as well say that because a few dolts think McDonald's Big Macs are "collectable" it makes it so.  The are, rather, worth whatever you local McDonald's sells them for.

You can't find half dollars at many banks.  I've asked for them several times, and they said they didn't carry them.  Wrong again, SP.

Most banks will have small quantities of half dollars, dollar coins, $2 bills, etc, just through normal transactions.  If you want to purchase large quantities, you can do that as well - it'll just take a few days at most for the money to come in.  Same holds true for foreign currency - if I went to my local bank and wanted euros, pesos, etc., I can easily do that as well.  Exchange rate may not be the best, but it'll probably be better than what I can get at the airport.

[bugo]

You can't find half dollars at many banks.  I've asked for them several times, and they said they didn't carry them.  Wrong again, SP.

My bank, given two days notice, will pay my entire account in 50 cent pieces, $2 bills, SBAs or any other NON-COLLECTABLE form of US money.  So will yours. 

If you wish to believe that NON-COLLECTABLE money is collectable, have at it.  I will gladly sell you ANY AMOUNT of 50 cent pieces for $1 each.  I will make exactly 50 cents on each.

Are you saying that NOBODY collects half dollars?  If not, then they are collectable.  You obviously know nothing about the coin collecting hobby.  You probably say the bicentennial quarter is not collectable, even though I have over 200 of them saved up.  They might not be worth much more than face value, but that doesn't mean they're not collectable.
Post Merge: December 01, 2013, 07:11:21 AM

If you wish to believe that NON-COLLECTABLE money is collectable, have at it.  I will gladly sell you ANY AMOUNT of 50 cent pieces for $1 each.  I will make exactly 50 cents on each.

A coin has to be worth double its face value to be collectable?  Where did you get that arbitrary number?

[Road Hog]

I have in my possession a circulated 1942 Mercury dime. Unfortunately it's not the double-stamped 1 over the 2 over the date, which would skyrocket its value. But I was wondering what it might be worth.

[SP Cook]

A coin has to be worth double its face value to be collectable?  Where did you get that arbitrary number?

OK I will gladly sell you any amount of 50 cent pieces for the specially today only price of 51 cents each.

I still make a cent profit each.  By selling non-collectable items in eventually lunlimited supply for more than the actual value.

[Alps]

A coin has to be worth double its face value to be collectable?  Where did you get that arbitrary number?

OK I will gladly sell you any amount of 50 cent pieces for the specially today only price of 51 cents each.

I still make a cent profit each.  By selling non-collectable items in eventually lunlimited supply for more than the actual value.

I would gladly take that deal for the dates I'm missing. Clearly you don't understand what it means to be a collector.

[mgk920]

I have in my possession a circulated 1942 Mercury dime. Unfortunately it's not the double-stamped 1 over the 2 over the date, which would skyrocket its value. But I was wondering what it might be worth.

According to http://www.coinflation.com (scroll down a bit), as of market close on Friday, it's metal is now worth $1.407 (1407% of 'face' for pre-1965 USA 'silver').



Yes, that's how much the Dollar has been inflated since then.



Mike

[vtk]

You know, I don't think I've seen any of those "someone just found some old US coins once thought lost-to-history, so now you can buy from us some legal tender (in Liberia) reproductions that we don't really say are reproductions but we don't say they aren't either and there's a strict limit of five per call because they're going to be so popular" commercials in a while...

Wait, is Liberia one of the countries that had its government overthrown in the "Arab Spring"?

[bugo]

A coin has to be worth double its face value to be collectable?  Where did you get that arbitrary number?

OK I will gladly sell you any amount of 50 cent pieces for the specially today only price of 51 cents each.

I still make a cent profit each.  By selling non-collectable items in eventually lunlimited supply for more than the actual value.

I'll happily pay you 51 cents for pre-1970 halves and $1 for pre-1964 halves.

[bugo]

I have in my possession a circulated 1942 Mercury dime. Unfortunately it's not the double-stamped 1 over the 2 over the date, which would skyrocket its value. But I was wondering what it might be worth.

Probably worth a buck or so.  I gave less than $3 for an uncirculated 1944 dime.

[bugo]

I see a lot of 1965 quarters and dimes.  I see quite a few from 65-69, but I haven't seen a silver quarter in years.  I've found 24 silver dimes in the last month.

Update: I found a silver 1964 quarter and a 40% silver bicentennial quarter.  My coworker found 4 silver quarters and gave me 2 of them, both nice 1964s. 

[bugo]

SP:  Read this article:

http://www.collectorscorner.org/pocket.html

Scroll down to "halves".