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Interstate control cities have gotten smaller over the years

Started by bandit957, June 26, 2021, 02:24:26 PM

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SkyPesos

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 29, 2021, 08:58:50 AM
The control city on I-65 south of Nashville was Birmingham for years.  It is now Huntsville.  Huntsville city limit actually does now touch I-65 believe it or not.  Huntsville has annexed way out west.


Huntsville will be the largest city in Alabama in a year or so.
Not that surprising. The top four largest cities in Alabama are pretty close in population to each other.


If you would have told people in 1960 that Huntsville would be the largest city in Alabama, when it had about 70,000 residents and Birmingham had over 300,000, they would have thought you were nuts.

I wonder when the last time a state's most populous city changed?  Maybe Columbus, Ohio in the early 1990s?
Nashville passed Memphis in population about 5 years ago I think.


SEWIGuy

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 29, 2021, 10:24:45 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 29, 2021, 08:58:50 AM
The control city on I-65 south of Nashville was Birmingham for years.  It is now Huntsville.  Huntsville city limit actually does now touch I-65 believe it or not.  Huntsville has annexed way out west.


Huntsville will be the largest city in Alabama in a year or so.
Not that surprising. The top four largest cities in Alabama are pretty close in population to each other.


If you would have told people in 1960 that Huntsville would be the largest city in Alabama, when it had about 70,000 residents and Birmingham had over 300,000, they would have thought you were nuts.

I wonder when the last time a state's most populous city changed?  Maybe Columbus, Ohio in the early 1990s?
Nashville passed Memphis in population about 5 years ago I think.


Ah good call.

Flint1979

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 29, 2021, 08:58:50 AM
The control city on I-65 south of Nashville was Birmingham for years.  It is now Huntsville.  Huntsville city limit actually does now touch I-65 believe it or not.  Huntsville has annexed way out west.


Huntsville will be the largest city in Alabama in a year or so.
Not that surprising. The top four largest cities in Alabama are pretty close in population to each other.


If you would have told people in 1960 that Huntsville would be the largest city in Alabama, when it had about 70,000 residents and Birmingham had over 300,000, they would have thought you were nuts.

I wonder when the last time a state's most populous city changed?  Maybe Columbus, Ohio in the early 1990s?
That's true. Like in Michigan I would never expect Grand Rapids to pass Detroit in population but I've heard people say that Grand Rapids will do that. I honestly don't see it happening because I don't see Grand Rapids becoming a city of over 250,000 but I guess it could. Like SkyPesos said though I think Nashville overtaking Memphis was the last change in largest cities in a state.

sprjus4

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 29, 2021, 08:57:32 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: US 89 on June 29, 2021, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 28, 2021, 09:03:12 PM
Is there even a rural expressway corridor in the Midwest with a speed limit higher than 65 mph?

Yep. In your own state, no less.
I was going to mention US-30 because I've driven on it in Ohio and knew it had a 70 mph speed limit for at least some of it's stretch through Ohio.
It's also a freeway for a good portion of its stretch, which is why I didn't mention it, as I was pretty sure the speed drops to 65 once the freeway portion ends. It seems like US 30 have much fewer at-grade intersections than other expressways (like US 41 in IN, and OH 32, which is signed at 60 mph), to warrant the 70 mph limit.
The expressways in Indiana are only capped at 60 mph because state law indicates any roadway without limited access (freeway design) must be so, it's not based off any engineering data. Even limited access freeway segments in Indiana are restricted to 65 mph, only interstates can be 70 mph.

As for Ohio, I don't believe anything is restricting them. I feel expressways like OH-32 could easily be 65 mph or even 70 mph in areas. They said IIRC their internal policy is to not post above 60 mph on anything that isn't controlled access (I.E. their 65 mph and higher roads have intersections but no private driveways)... but the western end of the 70 mph US-30 segment near Indiana is an uncontrolled access roadway with private driveways and still holds 70 mph.

I wish more states would follow a blanket policy like Texas does, where it simply sets a state wide maximum of 75 mph and allows engineers to raise any road type to that speed, not categorizing it based on road design (I.E. freeway, four lane divided, two lane, etc.). Because they have the authority, engineers have determined 75 mph is appropriate even on many rural 2 lane roads and most of their divided highways (even busier, heavier traffic ones) simply based on design, visibility, what the 85th percentile speeds are, and other factors.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: sprjus4 on June 29, 2021, 11:15:08 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 29, 2021, 08:57:32 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: US 89 on June 29, 2021, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 28, 2021, 09:03:12 PM
Is there even a rural expressway corridor in the Midwest with a speed limit higher than 65 mph?

Yep. In your own state, no less.
I was going to mention US-30 because I've driven on it in Ohio and knew it had a 70 mph speed limit for at least some of it's stretch through Ohio.
It's also a freeway for a good portion of its stretch, which is why I didn't mention it, as I was pretty sure the speed drops to 65 once the freeway portion ends. It seems like US 30 have much fewer at-grade intersections than other expressways (like US 41 in IN, and OH 32, which is signed at 60 mph), to warrant the 70 mph limit.
The expressways in Indiana are only capped at 60 mph because state law indicates any roadway without limited access (freeway design) must be so, it's not based off any engineering data. Even limited access freeway segments in Indiana are restricted to 65 mph, only interstates can be 70 mph.

As for Ohio, I don't believe anything is restricting them. I feel expressways like OH-32 could easily be 65 mph or even 70 mph in areas. They said IIRC their internal policy is to not post above 60 mph on anything that isn't controlled access (I.E. their 65 mph and higher roads have intersections but no private driveways)... but the western end of the 70 mph US-30 segment near Indiana is an uncontrolled access roadway with private driveways and still holds 70 mph.

I wish more states would follow a blanket policy like Texas does, where it simply sets a state wide maximum of 75 mph and allows engineers to raise any road type to that speed, not categorizing it based on road design (I.E. freeway, four lane divided, two lane, etc.). Because they have the authority, engineers have determined 75 mph is appropriate even on many rural 2 lane roads and most of their divided highways (even busier, heavier traffic ones) simply based on design, visibility, what the 85th percentile speeds are, and other factors.
What 2 lane roads in Indiana do you think could be safely posted at 75? Or any two-lane roads in the east? They probably are some, I just don't know where.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

sprjus4

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 01:22:53 PM
What 2 lane roads in Indiana do you think could be safely posted at 75? Or any two-lane roads in the east? They probably are some, I just don't know where.
I'm not suggesting any specifics or that any should be. I'm simply saying engineers should have the option to determine and post an appropriate speed on a road, and not be capped to X speed because it's a certain classification (non-limited-access, limited-access, four lane, two lane, divided, undivided, interstate, non-interstate, etc.) even if it's designed for and can safely handle 10 or 15 mph higher.

SkyPesos

Quote from: sprjus4 on June 29, 2021, 11:15:08 AM
I wish more states would follow a blanket policy like Texas does, where it simply sets a state wide maximum of 75 mph and allows engineers to raise any road type to that speed, not categorizing it based on road design (I.E. freeway, four lane divided, two lane, etc.). Because they have the authority, engineers have determined 75 mph is appropriate even on many rural 2 lane roads and most of their divided highways (even busier, heavier traffic ones) simply based on design, visibility, what the 85th percentile speeds are, and other factors.
I never heard of this policy, but I like it. Maybe Ohio can do the same thing with a statewide max of 70 mph. Could possibly raise some 2 line rural roads from the current max of 55 mph for that type, and as you mentioned, raising OH 32 (as well as some other expressways in Appalachian Ohio) from 60 to 65. Though I'm still wondering why our rural interstates in the eastern US have a lower speed limit than comparable freeways in a lot of other countries, which are signed at 120 km/h (75 mph).

sprjus4

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 29, 2021, 01:39:54 PM
I never heard of this policy, but I like it. Maybe Ohio can do the same thing with a statewide max of 70 mph. Could possibly raise some 2 line rural roads from the current max of 55 mph for that type, and as you mentioned, raising OH 32 (as well as some other expressways in Appalachian Ohio) from 60 to 65.
And it's interestingly honestly, because I'm not sure there's a legal provision in the Ohio statue that gives the authority for a non-limited-access divided highway such as US-30 to have a posted speed limit above 65 mph. Additionally, two lane roads are permitted to be posted up to 60 mph, though I'm not sure of any instance of that actually happening.

The state law specifically indicates:
Quote
(B) It is prima-facie lawful, in the absence of a lower limit declared or established pursuant to this section by the director of transportation or local authorities, for the operator of a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar to operate the same at a speed not exceeding the following:

(2) Twenty-five miles per hour in all other portions of a municipal corporation, except on state routes outside business districts, through highways outside business districts, and alleys;

(3) Thirty-five miles per hour on all state routes or through highways within municipal corporations outside business districts, except as provided in divisions (B)(4) and (6) of this section;

(4) Fifty miles per hour on controlled-access highways and expressways within municipal corporations, except as provided in divisions (B)(12), (13), (14), (15), and (16) of this section;

(5) Fifty-five miles per hour on highways outside municipal corporations, other than highways within island jurisdictions as provided in division (B)(8) of this section, highways as provided in divisions (B)(9) and (10) of this section, and highways, expressways, and freeways as provided in divisions (B)(12), (13), (14), and (16) of this section;

(6) Fifty miles per hour on state routes within municipal corporations outside urban districts unless a lower prima-facie speed is established as further provided in this section;

(7) Fifteen miles per hour on all alleys within the municipal corporation;

(8) Thirty-five miles per hour on highways outside municipal corporations that are within an island jurisdiction;

(9) Thirty-five miles per hour on through highways, except state routes, that are outside municipal corporations and that are within a national park with boundaries extending through two or more counties;

(10) Sixty miles per hour on two-lane state routes outside municipal corporations as established by the director under division (H)(2) of this section;

(11) Fifty-five miles per hour on freeways with paved shoulders inside municipal corporations, other than freeways as provided in divisions (B)(14) and (16) of this section;

(12) Sixty miles per hour on rural expressways with traffic control signals and on all portions of rural divided highways, except as provided in divisions (B)(13) and (14) of this section;

(13) Sixty-five miles per hour on all rural expressways without traffic control signals;

(14) Seventy miles per hour on all rural freeways;

(15) Fifty-five miles per hour on all portions of freeways or expressways in congested areas as determined by the director and that are located within a municipal corporation or within an interstate freeway outerbelt, except as provided in division (B)(16) of this section;

(16) Sixty-five miles per hour on all portions of freeways or expressways without traffic control signals in urbanized areas.

This is Texas' law regarding speed limits:
Quote
(b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b) , the following speeds are lawful:

(1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;

(2) except as provided by Subdivision (4), 70 miles per hour on a highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road;

(3) except as provided by Subdivision (4), 60 miles per hour on a highway that is outside an urban district and not a highway numbered by this state or the United States;

(4) outside an urban district:

(A) 60 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that has passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201 and is on a highway numbered by the United States or this state, including a farm-to-market road;  or

(B) 50 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that:

(i) has not passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201 ;  or

(ii) is traveling on a highway not numbered by the United States or this state;

(5) on a beach, 15 miles per hour;  or

(6) on a county road adjacent to a public beach, 15 miles per hour, if declared by the commissioners court of the county.



(h) Notwithstanding Section 545.352(b) , the commission may establish a speed limit of 75 miles per hour on a part of the highway system if the commission determines that 75 miles per hour is a reasonable and safe speed for that part of the highway system.

(h-1) Notwithstanding Section 545.352(b) , the commission may establish a speed limit of 80 miles per hour on a part of Interstate Highway 10 or Interstate Highway 20 in Crockett, Culberson, Hudspeth, Jeff Davis, Kerr, Kimble, Pecos, Reeves, Sutton, or Ward County if the commission determines that 80 miles per hour is a reasonable and safe speed for that part of the highway.

(h-2) Notwithstanding Section 545.352(b) , the commission may establish a speed limit not to exceed 85 miles per hour on a part of the state highway system if:

(1) that part of the highway system is designed to accommodate travel at that established speed or a higher speed;  and

(2) the commission determines, after an engineering and traffic investigation, that the established speed limit is reasonable and safe for that part of the highway system.

roadman65

Quote from: SkyPesos on June 29, 2021, 10:24:45 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 29, 2021, 08:58:50 AM
The control city on I-65 south of Nashville was Birmingham for years.  It is now Huntsville.  Huntsville city limit actually does now touch I-65 believe it or not.  Huntsville has annexed way out west.


Huntsville will be the largest city in Alabama in a year or so.
Not that surprising. The top four largest cities in Alabama are pretty close in population to each other.


If you would have told people in 1960 that Huntsville would be the largest city in Alabama, when it had about 70,000 residents and Birmingham had over 300,000, they would have thought you were nuts.

I wonder when the last time a state's most populous city changed?  Maybe Columbus, Ohio in the early 1990s?
Nashville passed Memphis in population about 5 years ago I think.

VA Beach surpassed Norfolk in Virginia sometime in the mid 1980's I think.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

thspfc

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 29, 2021, 08:58:50 AM
The control city on I-65 south of Nashville was Birmingham for years.  It is now Huntsville.  Huntsville city limit actually does now touch I-65 believe it or not.  Huntsville has annexed way out west.


Huntsville will be the largest city in Alabama in a year or so.
Not that surprising. The top four largest cities in Alabama are pretty close in population to each other.


If you would have told people in 1960 that Huntsville would be the largest city in Alabama, when it had about 70,000 residents and Birmingham had over 300,000, they would have thought you were nuts.

I wonder when the last time a state's most populous city changed?  Maybe Columbus, Ohio in the early 1990s?
Connecticut's five largest cities (Bridgeport, New Haven, Stamford, Hartford, Waterbury) are all within 37k people of each other, not sure when Bridgeport became the largest though.

hobsini2

Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2021, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 29, 2021, 08:58:50 AM
The control city on I-65 south of Nashville was Birmingham for years.  It is now Huntsville.  Huntsville city limit actually does now touch I-65 believe it or not.  Huntsville has annexed way out west.


Huntsville will be the largest city in Alabama in a year or so.
Not that surprising. The top four largest cities in Alabama are pretty close in population to each other.


If you would have told people in 1960 that Huntsville would be the largest city in Alabama, when it had about 70,000 residents and Birmingham had over 300,000, they would have thought you were nuts.

I wonder when the last time a state's most populous city changed?  Maybe Columbus, Ohio in the early 1990s?
Connecticut's five largest cities (Bridgeport, New Haven, Stamford, Hartford, Waterbury) are all within 37k people of each other, not sure when Bridgeport became the largest though.
According to https://portal.ct.gov/SOTS/Register-Manual/Section-VII/Population-1900-1960, Hartford and Bridgeport have been trading back and forth the title of largest city. 1980 was the last change. New Haven was close but never took it over.  This link also shows 1970-2000.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Roadgeekteen

Interesting that Bridgeport feels like an afterthought in SW Connecticut even though it's the largest city in the state.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

Flint1979

#112
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2021, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 29, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 29, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 29, 2021, 08:58:50 AM
The control city on I-65 south of Nashville was Birmingham for years.  It is now Huntsville.  Huntsville city limit actually does now touch I-65 believe it or not.  Huntsville has annexed way out west.


Huntsville will be the largest city in Alabama in a year or so.
Not that surprising. The top four largest cities in Alabama are pretty close in population to each other.


If you would have told people in 1960 that Huntsville would be the largest city in Alabama, when it had about 70,000 residents and Birmingham had over 300,000, they would have thought you were nuts.

I wonder when the last time a state's most populous city changed?  Maybe Columbus, Ohio in the early 1990s?
Connecticut's five largest cities (Bridgeport, New Haven, Stamford, Hartford, Waterbury) are all within 37k people of each other, not sure when Bridgeport became the largest though.
It overtook New Haven in the 1950's.
In 1950 New Haven had 164,443 and Bridgeport had 158,709.
In 1960 Bridgeport had 156,748 and New Haven had 152,048.
At this time Hartford was the largest city in Connecticut though.
It overtook Hartford in the 1970's.

DTComposer

#113
Not to further the off-topic section of the thread, but I'm going to further the off-topic section of the thread:

Here's a breakdown of the most recent census in which a state's largest city changed. I've done 39 of the states (not done: DE, ID, KS, MD, ME, ND, NH, NM, RI, SD, VT). Some of those are probably obvious - I'll fill 'em in when I get another break. Corrections welcome!

1830
KY: Louisville > Lexington
NJ: Newark > Trenton

1860
IN: Indianapolis > New Albany

1870
NB: Omaha > Nebraska City

1880
GA: Atlanta > Savannah
IA: Des Moines > Davenport

1890
MN: Minneapolis > St. Paul
WA: Seattle > Walla Walla

1900
OK: Oklahoma City > Gutrhie
TN: Memphis > Nasvhille

1910
AL: Birmingham > Mobile

1920
AZ: Phoenix > Tucson
CA: Los Angeles > San Francisco

1930
MS: Jackson > Meridian
NC: Charlotte > Winston-Salem
TX: Houston > San Antonio

1950:
AK: Anchorage > Juneau
SC: Columbia > Charleston

1960
NV: Las Vegas > Reno

1970
FL: Jacksonville > Miami
MT: Billings > Great Falls
WV: Charleston > Huntington

1980
CT: Bridgeport > Hartford

1990
MO: Kansas City > St. Louis
OH: Columbus > Cleveland
VA: Virginia Beach > Norfolk
WY: Cheyenne > Casper

These cities have had the same largest city since the listed census years:
AR: Little Rock (1850)
CO: Denver (1860)
HI: Honolulu (1890)
IL: Chicago (1840)
LA: New Orleans (1810)
MA: Boston (1790)
MI: Detroit (1820)
OR: Portland (1850)
PA: Philadelphia (1790)
NY: New York (1790)
UT: Salt Lake City (1850)
WI: Milwaukee (1840)

(not at all comprehensive) Notes:
CT: New Haven largest 1810-1920
FL: Jacksonville largest 1900-1940, Miami largest 1950-1960
MT: Helena largest 1870-1890, Butte largest 1900-1940
NC: Wilmington largest 1840-1900, Charlotte largest 1910
TN: Memphis largest 1860-1870
VA: Richmond largest 1810-1950
WV: Wheeling largest 1870–1920, Huntington largest 1930-1950, Charleston largest 1960
WY: Cheyenne largest 1870-1970

Roadgeekteen

Let's move this largest city discussion to another thread.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

SEWIGuy

Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
Not to further the off-topic section of the thread, but I'm going to further the off-topic section of the thread:

Here's a breakdown of the most recent census in which a state's largest city changed. I've done 38 of the states (not done: DE, ID, KS, MD, ME, ND, NH, NM, RI, SD, UT, VT). Some of those are probably obvious - I'll fill 'em in when I get another break. Corrections welcome!

1830
KY: Louisville > Lexington
NJ: Newark > Trenton

1860
IN: Indianapolis > New Albany

1870
NB: Omaha > Nebraska City

1880
GA: Atlanta > Savannah
IA: Des Moines > Davenport

1890
MN: Minneapolis > St. Paul
WA: Seattle > Walla Walla

1900
OK: Oklahoma City > Gutrhie
TN: Memphis > Nasvhille

1910
AL: Birmingham > Mobile

1920
AZ: Phoenix > Tucson
CA: Los Angeles > San Francisco

1930
MS: Jackson > Meridian
NC: Charlotte > Winston-Salem
TX: Houston > San Antonio

1950:
AK: Anchorage > Juneau
SC: Columbia > Charleston


I believe the next census will show Charleston has retaken the lead in South Carolina.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 30, 2021, 04:31:38 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
Not to further the off-topic section of the thread, but I'm going to further the off-topic section of the thread:

Here's a breakdown of the most recent census in which a state's largest city changed. I've done 38 of the states (not done: DE, ID, KS, MD, ME, ND, NH, NM, RI, SD, UT, VT). Some of those are probably obvious - I'll fill 'em in when I get another break. Corrections welcome!

1830
KY: Louisville > Lexington
NJ: Newark > Trenton

1860
IN: Indianapolis > New Albany

1870
NB: Omaha > Nebraska City

1880
GA: Atlanta > Savannah
IA: Des Moines > Davenport

1890
MN: Minneapolis > St. Paul
WA: Seattle > Walla Walla

1900
OK: Oklahoma City > Gutrhie
TN: Memphis > Nasvhille

1910
AL: Birmingham > Mobile

1920
AZ: Phoenix > Tucson
CA: Los Angeles > San Francisco

1930
MS: Jackson > Meridian
NC: Charlotte > Winston-Salem
TX: Houston > San Antonio

1950:
AK: Anchorage > Juneau
SC: Columbia > Charleston


I believe the next census will show Charleston has retaken the lead in South Carolina.
I always thought that Charleston was the largest city.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

Flint1979

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 30, 2021, 04:31:38 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
Not to further the off-topic section of the thread, but I'm going to further the off-topic section of the thread:

Here's a breakdown of the most recent census in which a state's largest city changed. I've done 38 of the states (not done: DE, ID, KS, MD, ME, ND, NH, NM, RI, SD, UT, VT). Some of those are probably obvious - I'll fill 'em in when I get another break. Corrections welcome!

1830
KY: Louisville > Lexington
NJ: Newark > Trenton

1860
IN: Indianapolis > New Albany

1870
NB: Omaha > Nebraska City

1880
GA: Atlanta > Savannah
IA: Des Moines > Davenport

1890
MN: Minneapolis > St. Paul
WA: Seattle > Walla Walla

1900
OK: Oklahoma City > Gutrhie
TN: Memphis > Nasvhille

1910
AL: Birmingham > Mobile

1920
AZ: Phoenix > Tucson
CA: Los Angeles > San Francisco

1930
MS: Jackson > Meridian
NC: Charlotte > Winston-Salem
TX: Houston > San Antonio

1950:
AK: Anchorage > Juneau
SC: Columbia > Charleston


I believe the next census will show Charleston has retaken the lead in South Carolina.
I always thought that Charleston was the largest city.
Columbia has been the largest city in South Carolina for awhile.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Flint1979 on June 30, 2021, 06:36:02 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 30, 2021, 04:31:38 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
Not to further the off-topic section of the thread, but I'm going to further the off-topic section of the thread:

Here's a breakdown of the most recent census in which a state's largest city changed. I've done 38 of the states (not done: DE, ID, KS, MD, ME, ND, NH, NM, RI, SD, UT, VT). Some of those are probably obvious - I'll fill 'em in when I get another break. Corrections welcome!

1830
KY: Louisville > Lexington
NJ: Newark > Trenton

1860
IN: Indianapolis > New Albany

1870
NB: Omaha > Nebraska City

1880
GA: Atlanta > Savannah
IA: Des Moines > Davenport

1890
MN: Minneapolis > St. Paul
WA: Seattle > Walla Walla

1900
OK: Oklahoma City > Gutrhie
TN: Memphis > Nasvhille

1910
AL: Birmingham > Mobile

1920
AZ: Phoenix > Tucson
CA: Los Angeles > San Francisco

1930
MS: Jackson > Meridian
NC: Charlotte > Winston-Salem
TX: Houston > San Antonio

1950:
AK: Anchorage > Juneau
SC: Columbia > Charleston


I believe the next census will show Charleston has retaken the lead in South Carolina.
I always thought that Charleston was the largest city.
Columbia has been the largest city in South Carolina for awhile.
Huh. Is the Charleston metro area bigger?
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

Flint1979

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2021, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 30, 2021, 06:36:02 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 30, 2021, 04:31:38 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
Not to further the off-topic section of the thread, but I'm going to further the off-topic section of the thread:

Here's a breakdown of the most recent census in which a state's largest city changed. I've done 38 of the states (not done: DE, ID, KS, MD, ME, ND, NH, NM, RI, SD, UT, VT). Some of those are probably obvious - I'll fill 'em in when I get another break. Corrections welcome!

1830
KY: Louisville > Lexington
NJ: Newark > Trenton

1860
IN: Indianapolis > New Albany

1870
NB: Omaha > Nebraska City

1880
GA: Atlanta > Savannah
IA: Des Moines > Davenport

1890
MN: Minneapolis > St. Paul
WA: Seattle > Walla Walla

1900
OK: Oklahoma City > Gutrhie
TN: Memphis > Nasvhille

1910
AL: Birmingham > Mobile

1920
AZ: Phoenix > Tucson
CA: Los Angeles > San Francisco

1930
MS: Jackson > Meridian
NC: Charlotte > Winston-Salem
TX: Houston > San Antonio

1950:
AK: Anchorage > Juneau
SC: Columbia > Charleston


I believe the next census will show Charleston has retaken the lead in South Carolina.
I always thought that Charleston was the largest city.
Columbia has been the largest city in South Carolina for awhile.
Huh. Is the Charleston metro area bigger?
About the same size. Neither of them are the largest metros in the state though, that's Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson.

US 89

Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
1990
WY: Casper > Cheyenne

Think you meant to switch these - looks like Cheyenne has been bigger than Casper in every census except for 1980.

I would be shocked if any city in Utah has ever been larger than Salt Lake City.

thspfc

Quote from: US 89 on June 30, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
1990
WY: Casper > Cheyenne

Think you meant to switch these - looks like Cheyenne has been bigger than Casper in every census except for 1980.

I would be shocked if any city in Utah has ever been larger than Salt Lake City.
For Wisconsin I'm guessing that Milwaukee overtook Green Bay sometime in the early 19th century.

Big John

Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2021, 07:49:56 PM
Quote from: US 89 on June 30, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
1990
WY: Casper > Cheyenne

Think you meant to switch these - looks like Cheyenne has been bigger than Casper in every census except for 1980.

I would be shocked if any city in Utah has ever been larger than Salt Lake City.
For Wisconsin I'm guessing that Milwaukee overtook Green Bay sometime in the early 19th century.
My best guess is 1840s when Milwaukee grew in population: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1940/population-volume-1/33973538v1ch10.pdf

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2021, 07:49:56 PM
Quote from: US 89 on June 30, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
1990
WY: Casper > Cheyenne

Think you meant to switch these - looks like Cheyenne has been bigger than Casper in every census except for 1980.

I would be shocked if any city in Utah has ever been larger than Salt Lake City.
For Wisconsin I'm guessing that Milwaukee overtook Green Bay sometime in the early 19th century.
Shocked that Green Bay was once the biggest city in Wisconsin.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

hobsini2

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 30, 2021, 10:18:37 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2021, 07:49:56 PM
Quote from: US 89 on June 30, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on June 30, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
1990
WY: Casper > Cheyenne

Think you meant to switch these - looks like Cheyenne has been bigger than Casper in every census except for 1980.

I would be shocked if any city in Utah has ever been larger than Salt Lake City.
For Wisconsin I'm guessing that Milwaukee overtook Green Bay sometime in the early 19th century.
Shocked that Green Bay was once the biggest city in Wisconsin.
You shouldn't be if you know the exploration history of Wisconsin.  What is Green Bay (and the surrounding area) today was first explored in 1634 by Jean Nicolet.  It quickly became an important commerce port on the Great Lakes even before the Chicago and Milwaukee areas were explored.  Father Marquette and Louis Joliet made their voyage down the Fox River and Wisconsin River to the Mississippi River in 1673.  The Milwaukee area was not explored until 1674 and did not allow European settlements until the early 1800s. 

BTW, if you want a fascinating read, look up the Milwaukee Bridge Wars of 1845 between Juneautown (East of the Milwaukee River) and Kilbourntown (west of the Milwaukee River. That's the reason why so many streets in Downtown have bridges at bad angles.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)