Speed Kills Your Pocketbook

[kphoger]

I consider a fender bender any damage that is only cosmetic and does not impede the functionality of the car, so if a small dent for example made a car aerodynamically unstable, that wouldn't be a fender bender.

But our point is that you don't always know right away if the damage is just a fender bender or not.  Secondary damage is not always apparent.  This is why just waving the other person off and living with the dent isn't necessarily the best course of action.

Now I would like some people to chime in and tell me how many years and, miles, and variety of situations on the road encountered qualities one for "experience"? I have driven on all different types of roads

traffic circles – check
crazy short entrance ramps – check
dealt with people who swerve into your lane at the last seconds – check (who hasn't?)
weird signage – check
in the hurricane 2 days ago – never done that one
in thunderstorms – check (including tornado warnings and sandstorms and through the middle of a dust devil)
on extremely windy days – check
in horrible traffic – check
experienced rapid changes in traffic – check (if I understand what that means correctly)
been on toll roads – check
narrow roads – check (including two-way traffic on one-lane streets)
wide roads – check (up to ten-lane freeways)
in other states – check (plus probably 8000 miles or so in Mexico)
made U turns in congested areas – check (notably Chicago)
parallel parked in tight spaces – check
found my way without GPS – check (are you really that young?)
on little sleep – check (multiple overnight trips of >1000 miles)
at night – check (see above)
through puddles – check (seriously??? https://i.imgur.com/X1bjnLq.png)
through snowstorms – check
and have had no accidents or tickets – Nope, I can't claim that!

I've also driven through the desert with no roads, driven on creek beds, bribed my way out of a speeding ticket in Mexico, driven over high-clearance mountain passes, driven on flooded streets, and probably a bunch of other stuff I haven't thought of.

And I've had accidents or tickets.  Doesn't that make me more experienced when it comes to speed and driving safety, not less?

And I am far from being the most experienced driver on here.  Quite a few others on here have much wider experience driving than I have.  What makes you think you've got a corner on "experience"?

I drive anywhere from 60 to 290 miles a day, and have most likely driven around the earth multiple times in the decade I've been driving, in one of the hardest places to drive.

Buddy, we've all done that. You realize what forum you're on, right? Drop your Travel Mapping link if you want anyone to care.

Which is why I am shocked that so many people here think speed is such a huge factor in causing accidents.

Good.  It should shock you, I think.  Take that for what it is:  there are people who drive as much as you (or more) who think speed plays a bigger part in highway safety than you give it credit for.

[Scott5114]

Just happened upon this thread.  Reading this is like listening to my 12 year-old trying to explain to me a concept he heretofore knew nothing about, but, because he just saw a YouTube video about it, he now thinks he's an expert on the subject.

Have fun.

FWIW I'm gathering from the comments that the OP is a relatively young person and a inexperienced driver.

I drive anywhere from 60 to 290 miles a day, and have most likely driven around the earth multiple times in the decade I've been driving, in one of the hardest places to drive.

Buddy, we've all done that. You realize what forum you're on, right? Drop your Travel Mapping link if you want anyone to care.

Which is why I am shocked that so many people here think speed is such a huge factor in causing accidents. And no, I don't keep track of traveling in a link, nor log miles or am on a mission to drive every mile of  interstate in the US.

Then how do you expect anyone to take your claims seriously, if even you do not know where you've driven?

What? I don't have to keep a digital log of every road I drive on to know in general where I drive!

I never said "in general". I don't care about generalities, I care about specifics, since you mentioned specific mileages, and because you don't learn anything new driving the same road over and over. Which leads you to say things that are grossly incorrect, like:

Most highways are the same, whether they are in Nevada, CA, NY, Florida, or Nebraska

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^

Actually several people early in the thread said the exact opposite and were of the opinion that speed limits were often too low. 

I was wondering this myself. If anything this is the first community where I've seen it widely encouraged to increase speed limits lol. The "OP"  would not like the threads in urban forums like SSP or City where it is often suggested to reduce the speed limit.

I can kinda/sorta see where he/she is coming from but they are being pretty combative and it is amusing thread. I guess sometimes I fall into my opinion too much and become more confrontational than wanting an actual debate and it's something I've been trying to work on. Hopefully I've never been this bad though.

[Max Rockatansky]

Just happened upon this thread.  Reading this is like listening to my 12 year-old trying to explain to me a concept he heretofore knew nothing about, but, because he just saw a YouTube video about it, he now thinks he's an expert on the subject.

Have fun.

FWIW I'm gathering from the comments that the OP is a relatively young person and a inexperienced driver.

I drive anywhere from 60 to 290 miles a day, and have most likely driven around the earth multiple times in the decade I've been driving, in one of the hardest places to drive.

Buddy, we've all done that. You realize what forum you're on, right? Drop your Travel Mapping link if you want anyone to care.

Which is why I am shocked that so many people here think speed is such a huge factor in causing accidents. And no, I don't keep track of traveling in a link, nor log miles or am on a mission to drive every mile of  interstate in the US.

Then how do you expect anyone to take your claims seriously, if even you do not know where you've driven?

What? I don't have to keep a digital log of every road I drive on to know in general where I drive! Most highways are the same, whether they are in Nevada, CA, NY, Florida, or Nebraska, and given that most roads I haven't driven on are probably better than where I live,  that only further supports my point. The only differences traffic, and whether they are asphalt or concrete, my claims are about speed safety and insurance, not about scenic beauty or knowing trivia about the history of routes.

When you say your most frequent roads traveled are largely limited access Interstates it doesn't convey a sense of worldly experience behind the wheel.  The arguments you trying to prove need some kind of qualifications to actually substantiate them, a broad driving record would be one such way.  I know that's what you are trying to do with the videos.  All the same you haven't been able to form more valid arguments for your own theories which is why they have been picked apart repeatedly.  The reasons for that seemingly speaks to a certain level of inexperience with the subject matter you're trying to discuss.

[Plutonic Panda]

And no, I don't keep track of traveling in a link, nor log miles or am on a mission to drive every mile of  interstate in the US.

That's where you don' went and fucked up son.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

I'd love to have a Travel Mapping account but I'm a least a decade past being able to reasonably update something like that.

^^^

Actually several people early in the thread said the exact opposite and were of the opinion that speed limits were often too low. 

I was wondering this myself. If anything this is the first community where I've seen it widely encouraged to increase speed limits lol. The "OP"  would not like the threads in urban forums like SSP or City where it is often suggested to reduce the speed limit.

I can kinda/sorta see where he/she is coming from but they are being pretty combative and it is amusing thread. I guess sometimes I fall into my opinion too much and become more confrontational than wanting an actual debate and it's something I've been trying to work on. Hopefully I've never been this bad though.

FWIW I tried to swing the conversation towards highways of any type that could have a reasonable speed bump.  That would have interested me, but the OP wanted to go down this rabbit hole with just limited access roads. 

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^

I'd love to have a Travel Mapping account but I'm a least a decade past being able to reasonably update something like that.

^^^

Actually several people early in the thread said the exact opposite and were of the opinion that speed limits were often too low. 

I was wondering this myself. If anything this is the first community where I've seen it widely encouraged to increase speed limits lol. The "OP"  would not like the threads in urban forums like SSP or City where it is often suggested to reduce the speed limit.

I can kinda/sorta see where he/she is coming from but they are being pretty combative and it is amusing thread. I guess sometimes I fall into my opinion too much and become more confrontational than wanting an actual debate and it's something I've been trying to work on. Hopefully I've never been this bad though.

FWIW I tried to swing the conversation towards highways of any type that could have a reasonable speed bump.  That would have interested me, but the OP wanted to go down this rabbit hole with just limited access roads.

I'm more perturbed by him not wanting to travel every inch of the interstate system than anything. Well, I guess if I had to tell anyone a stretch of interstate they should never have to worry about not ever having driven would be I-70 in eastern Kansas. But then agains it's the Eisenhower interstate fer crying out loud. Drive it at least once! Just don't speed because then KSP boys will getcha.

[Scott5114]

^ I actually love driving in Kansas. The scenery in some parts is uninspiring but KDOT generally does such a great job, especially on their freeways, that it makes it a treat to go up there. I'd drive a KDOT freeway over a TxDOT one, given the choice.

[JayhawkCO]

I'd love to have a Travel Mapping account but I'm a least a decade past being able to reasonably update something like that.

All I had prior to last summer (and Covid lockdowns) was my interstate mileage logged as a vestige from the CHM site. It didn't take me that long to update mine.  Obviously you might have way more mileage than me (which is actually probable based on your posts), but it doesn't take quite as long as you think it would.

Make no mistake though, where I live, traffic flow is often 80-90 in 55 zones, and up to 95 in 65 zones, consistently.

I'm assuming you live out east, and while it's not the part of the country I've driven in the most, I have driven/ridden there a decent amount.  I've never seen traffic cruising at 95.  On which roads are you saying this is happening?

Chris

[Daniel Fiddler]

When I lived in Florida, traffic regularly flowed at 85 - 90 mph on I-75 between the Florida Turnpike and Macon and 90 - 100 between I-75 and Miami.  I remember once driving 120 - 125 in a CONVOY between Port St. Lucie and Orlando.

[sprjus4]

Make no mistake though, where I live, traffic flow is often 80-90 in 55 zones, and up to 95 in 65 zones, consistently.

Just curious... where exactly?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the flow of traffic being greater than the speed limit. Around here, traffic is often up to 70-80 mph regardless of a 55 mph or 60 mph zone, and the fastest will push 80-85 mph on the 65 mph areas, but seeing regular speeds of over 90 mph is something I question.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

I'd love to have a Travel Mapping account but I'm a least a decade past being able to reasonably update something like that.

^^^

Actually several people early in the thread said the exact opposite and were of the opinion that speed limits were often too low. 

I was wondering this myself. If anything this is the first community where I've seen it widely encouraged to increase speed limits lol. The "OP"  would not like the threads in urban forums like SSP or City where it is often suggested to reduce the speed limit.

I can kinda/sorta see where he/she is coming from but they are being pretty combative and it is amusing thread. I guess sometimes I fall into my opinion too much and become more confrontational than wanting an actual debate and it's something I've been trying to work on. Hopefully I've never been this bad though.

FWIW I tried to swing the conversation towards highways of any type that could have a reasonable speed bump.  That would have interested me, but the OP wanted to go down this rabbit hole with just limited access roads.

I'm more perturbed by him not wanting to travel every inch of the interstate system than anything. Well, I guess if I had to tell anyone a stretch of interstate they should never have to worry about not ever having driven would be I-70 in eastern Kansas. But then agains it's the Eisenhower interstate fer crying out loud. Drive it at least once! Just don't speed because then KSP boys will getcha.

Personally I'm kind of glad I got myself out of the mindset of trying to clinch every major cross country route and focus more on highways I think will be interesting.  I-10 alone with grating to finish and I don't think that I wouldn't enjoy finishing another large east/west Interstate (I've also clinched I-40) given how boring the Great Plain states are.

[Scott5114]

When I lived in Florida, traffic regularly flowed at 85 - 90 mph on I-75 between the Florida Turnpike and Macon and 90 - 100 between I-75 and Miami.  I remember once driving 120 - 125 in a CONVOY between Port St. Lucie and Orlando.

Yeah, but OP says roads in Florida are the same as in New York.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'd love to have a Travel Mapping account but I'm a least a decade past being able to reasonably update something like that.

All I had prior to last summer (and Covid lockdowns) was my interstate mileage logged as a vestige from the CHM site. It didn't take me that long to update mine.  Obviously you might have way more mileage than me (which is actually probable based on your posts), but it doesn't take quite as long as you think it would.

Make no mistake though, where I live, traffic flow is often 80-90 in 55 zones, and up to 95 in 65 zones, consistently.

I'm assuming you live out east, and while it's not the part of the country I've driven in the most, I have driven/ridden there a decent amount.  I've never seen traffic cruising at 95.  On which roads are you saying this is happening?

Chris

The issue I would have with travel mapping now is just trying to remember all the stuff I've actually done.  My Dad and I even were out clinching stuff all the way back to the 1980s.  It probably would drive me nuts to start something on Travel Mapping only to never be fully sure if I had everything.  That's before even getting into stuff I know they don't pick up so well like non-signed highways of note.

[kphoger]

I never once said speed limit should be 120, or that everyone should go 120 of there were no limits. I was just adding in that when I hit that speed, it didn't feel as fast as expected, despite only ever getting near it, twice.

How safe it feels and how safe it is are two different things.

When I was in high school back in the 90s, I had a need for speed.  On several occasions, I drove the nearly-thirty miles between home and the town I had orchestra rehearsal and/or piano lessons in at 110-120 mph.  On one occasion, I was going about 100 mph and moved into the left lane to pass a car.  I realized that I might not have enough room with an oncoming vehicle, so I braked in order to slow down and duck back into the right lane.  I fishtailed, at 100 mph.  I'm darned lucky the car didn't spin out, or I'd have been a goner.  And all because 100 mph didn't seem very dangerous, but a normal slowdown with the brake pedal turned out to be more than I expected.

[Plutonic Panda]

But then you talk about going 120 mph, which is well outside the 85th percentile of any road in North America. 

Which gets me wondering what road has the 85th percentile in the world, or least a verifiable one. I'd want to say Germany but even then I had read somewhere most drivers drive around 80-85 MPH.

Frankly, my racing through city traffic playing cat and mouse days are over. I'll speed for one of two reasons, long boring stretch of interstate with little traffic makes me want to go faster as it keeps me more focused. With newer cars being able to go 100 feeling like you aren't even going 50 makes that argument less and less valid though.

I love US highways in the west winding through the hills and mountains and if little traffic is present it's fun to be a bit naughty and go over the limit especially on UT 128(my favorite state Highway).

In regards to my it's simple math I was more or less being facetious but still making a point that in theory you will get to your destination faster at higher speeds. That doesn't take into account obstructions and up to chance encounters like hitting red lights or having to wait a longer cycle due a pedestrian, etc. But I get your point.

My argument for having higher speed limits is to push more cars through per hour per lane. That won't happen if higher limits contribute to more wrecks and cause more slowdowns. I figure this becomes less an issue on rural segments, particularly those that are up to modern interstate standards, and when self driving cars become a thing that can talk to each other. I have to say I'm not that excited about self driving cars given the prospect we may very well see a ban of driving cars "manually"  during our(my) lifetime or least on certain facilities. I wouldn't be surprised if we see proposals like that in the 2040s.

[kphoger]

As for the checking off my experience post, I never stated that desert non-roads or highways in Mexico should have higher limits.

I didn't claim you had.  My point is that your experience is likely matched by quite a few of the members here, and it seems to be somewhat geographically limited.

[JayhawkCO]

The issue I would have with travel mapping now is just trying to remember all the stuff I've actually done.  My Dad and I even were out clinching stuff all the way back to the 1980s.  It probably would drive me nuts to start something on Travel Mapping only to never be fully sure if I had everything.  That's before even getting into stuff I know they don't pick up so well like non-signed highways of note.

I'd just say it doesn't have to be perfect.  Every once in a while I'll go through my stuff state by state and then remember a place I know I've been.  I know if it was early in life before I was driving that my parents would have taken the shortest route that was shown on a map, so I log it.  I'm not so OCD that I'd freak out if one of my highways is logged slightly incorrectly.  If anything, I'm sure I'm missing far more than I've accidentally logged having traveled without actually having done so.  It all depends I suppose on what your rationale is for logging.

Chris

[Plutonic Panda]

^ I actually love driving in Kansas. The scenery in some parts is uninspiring but KDOT generally does such a great job, especially on their freeways, that it makes it a treat to go up there. I'd drive a KDOT freeway over a TxDOT one, given the choice.

I love to go to Kansas specifically to stop at Salina and eat at the Cozy Inn and have some nice sliders. But I gotta say I get tired of I-70 real quick though the scenery is nice at times. I have always found the churches in the middle of fields to be particularly interesting. I don't start to get any excitement until I hit Limon.

[Max Rockatansky]

The issue I would have with travel mapping now is just trying to remember all the stuff I've actually done.  My Dad and I even were out clinching stuff all the way back to the 1980s.  It probably would drive me nuts to start something on Travel Mapping only to never be fully sure if I had everything.  That's before even getting into stuff I know they don't pick up so well like non-signed highways of note.

I'd just say it doesn't have to be perfect.  Every once in a while I'll go through my stuff state by state and then remember a place I know I've been.  I know if it was early in life before I was driving that my parents would have taken the shortest route that was shown on a map, so I log it.  I'm not so OCD that I'd freak out if one of my highways is logged slightly incorrectly.  If anything, I'm sure I'm missing far more than I've accidentally logged having traveled without actually having done so.  It all depends I suppose on what your rationale is for logging.

Chris

That's the rub, I know that I'll try to go for perfection based off how obsessed I can get with things like photos and posting blogs on Gribblenation.  My wife already tolerates a lot of my participation in the hobby (I suspect since she indirectly benefits with travel) so it probably would be wise to just not scratch the itch in terms of creating an account. 

[Daniel Fiddler]

I personally think speed limits are far too low on especially Interstates and toll roads in the east.  I don't know if they should be 120, or even over 100, but I do think they should absolutely be higher.  Not all drivers have the skill and experience I do (not to boast, although I have 24 years of driving experience and zero wrecks that were considered my fault).

I personally think that MOST states east of the Mississippi River should have maximum speed limits of 80, with the exceptions of:

FL Turnpike Mainline between FL 70 Ft. Pierce and Kissimmee Park Rd St. Cloud:  90
Remainder of Florida Turnpike Mainline:  maximum of 85
I-75 between Florida Turnpike Mainline and I-475 Macon Bypass in Florida and Georgia:  maximum of 85

NJ (except for the NJ Turnpike, which should be 80), MA, MD, CT, WV, NH, RI, DE, VT:  maximum of 75

Speed limits should reflect the velocity of 85% of the flow of traffic, or a little faster, if at all possible.  They should be based on terrain and local population.  Not some arbitrary number set by the government.  And absolutely not set at an artificially and inappropriately low number for the purpose of catching "speeders" to write speeding tickets!

[Scott5114]

@Scott, I said most other roads arebetter than NY/NJ. NJ was recently ranked as the worst state roads in the country, #50. So, if I am saying that NY/NJ roads deserve a speed limit increase, then obviously roads in Florida, Nevada, Texas, Utah, and virtually anywhere in the Midwest should be even higher.

Better how? Maintenance/condition? Level of service? Design? Signage quality? And ranked by who, on which of the aforementioned criteria?

You can have a road that's immaculately maintained but congested, so it may warrant a lower speed limit.

You can have a road that's mostly free flowing, but is in terrible shape, so it may warrant a lower speed limit (hey there, I-29 in Iowa).

You can have a road that's free flowing and immaculately maintained, but was designed with sharp curves and/or closely-spaced interchanges, so it may warrant a lower speed limit. (And, of course, terrain may dictate design. It would be foolhardy to try to maintain 80 mph down US-550.)

You can have a road that's poorly maintained with poor-quality signage and design, but free-flowing, so it may warrant an Oklahoma state highway shield.

[Daniel Fiddler]

There are some speed limits so low that the recommended yellow speeds around curves are the same as the speed limit, or only 5 mph less. The Jersey Turnpike is where I hit my top speed of 121 mph, only for a few seconds, but it took my car a while just to get from 115 to 120! That could easily be 85. Also since it's a toll road it should be a little higher. The problem with determining the %tile speeds on roads like that is often you have half the drivers going 70, and the other half at 100, with nothing in between, no uniform traffic flow to base a speed limit off if. It's possible my perceptions of normal traffic flow are off due to the pandemic, some scientists even say that the ozone layer over some larger cities actually regenerated considerably after a year with barely any cars on the road.

I agree.  65 is ridiculously low for the NJ Turnpike.  Just like 70 is ridiculously low for speed limits in Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee (especially on the Florida Turnpike).

[kphoger]

And the fact that some states toll a road because you can go 5 mph faster shows that it's not about safety or traffic engineering. They only raised the limits so they can get an extra dollar from you, that's all that matters to them.

Also since it's a toll road it should be a little higher.

Because safety, right?

[kphoger]

The highest speed limit in Texas is 85 on Route 130, but I fail to see why that road is so much better than I-80 through the Bonneville Salt Flats ...

TX-130 is only 85 mph because the speed limit was a condition of its being built.  That is to say, the enterprise responsible for its construction strong-armed the speed limit into state law.