Speed Kills Your Pocketbook

[Scott5114]

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

Clue:

If you're at the point of flat-out refusing to drive in multiple states, then the problem does not lie with how those states enforce laws.  The problem lies with you.

Eh, I dunno that I'd go quite that far. My last road trip I spent the absolute minimal amount of time in Texas needed (entering a county, turning around at the first junction, and going back to Oklahoma) because I realized midway through the trip that I had some of my work equipment in the trunk. My job is illegal in Texas, my car unfortunately kind of smells like my job now, and my work equipment would be considered "paraphernalia".

I think Texas, and other states that make my job illegal, are being stupid, but there are enough of them that I can't avoid them all totally (especially since Kansas is one of them, and that's where most of my family is). I'll just be sure to visit those states with a car I don't go to work in next time.

[sprjus4]

I never understood how the express lanes, which are narrower overall (less of them) should be posted higher, since you barely have any passing options compared to the 3-4 in the local lanes. I-78 in NJ the local ones are always faster then the express ones, but at least they are the same speed limit and not "tolled" in one set and not the other. If anything, the higher limit should be on the wider spur. As mentioned earlier the NJ Turnpike tends to be faster in the truck spur of traffic, but it does have the same or more lanes at some points, so it makes sense. I don't know if that total I looked up included the 476 extension of the Penn Tpke, but even $47 is like a dollar every 7-8 miles! So unless you want to drive 50 miles north to I-80, you are stuck paying that exorbant amount if you are driving from NJ to Ohio, and then add the $20 for the Ohio Turnpike, and another $5 for the Indiana toll road, you are paying triple digits just to drive across 3 states. $112 without EZ-pass. Anything not a bridge or a tunnel should be federally banned from being tolled.

The higher speed limit on the Express Lanes is due to limited entry/exit points, truck restrictions, plus the incentive to pay the toll, etc.

I will say though - most areas here in Virginia where the HO/T lanes are posted at 65 mph and the general purpose are 55 mph, I would argue that in most instances both roadways should at least be 65 mph, if not 70 mph.

Looking at Texas as an extreme, the Dallas/Fort Worth area, most urban interstates are posted at 70 mph with the toll lanes often posted at 75 mph. And interestingly enough, those do permit trucks, but are usually at least 2 lanes each way with paved shoulders.

As for the toll comments, those roads have always been tolled since they were constructed and did not / do not use federal funding for initial construction / maintenance / later projects, etc.

[kphoger]

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

Clue:

If you're at the point of flat-out refusing to drive in multiple states, then the problem does not lie with how those states enforce laws.  The problem lies with you.

Eh, I dunno that I'd go quite that far. My last road trip I spent the absolute minimal amount of time in Texas needed (entering a county, turning around at the first junction, and going back to Oklahoma) because I realized midway through the trip that I had some of my work equipment in the trunk. My job is illegal in Texas, my car unfortunately kind of smells like my job now, and my work equipment would be considered "paraphernalia".

I think Texas, and other states that make my job illegal, are being stupid, but there are enough of them that I can't avoid them all totally (especially since Kansas is one of them, and that's where most of my family is). I'll just be sure to visit those states with a car I don't go to work in next time.

So you would never, for example, drive a rental car through Texas? or someone else's car? or drive there after switching careers and no longer having the issue you do now? or ... ... ...

[kphoger]

I don't disagree with this point, speed alone should not be considered "reckless" , and the speed limits should be higher, but how does this back up the claim that 20 mph or over 85 mph is automatically reckless?

Keep working on him, |sprjus4|.  You've almost got his opinion whittled down to common sense.

The progression thus far:

Asserts that over 85 mph is mandatory reckless driving ticket

but dare to hit 86 mph, mandatory reckless ticket

Asserts that over 85 is mandatory reckless driving sentence, even if not ticketed as such

The cops may have discretion, but am not sure if judges in traffic courts have to sentence them as if they committed a reckless driving charge, after a certain amount over, despite whether the cops wrote the ticket as such.

Tacitly accepts that 85 over isn't actually mandatory reckless driving at all

Well they shouldn't even be allowed to cite reckless just for 25 over.

The next step is to question whether he thinks 45 in a 20mph school zone should never be considered reckless driving.

[kphoger]

In all 50 states, someone 19 years old has banged a minor and gone to jail for it.

I bet in all 50 states someone has gone to jail for driving 120 MPH as well.

Wrong ...

None of what you said after that is a contradiction of the two things |SectorZ| said.

(Edit:  Unless that thing about Texas is true.)

[Scott5114]

So you would never, for example, drive a rental car through Texas? or someone else's car? or drive there after switching careers and no longer having the issue you do now? or ... ... ...

Rental car or someone else's car, maybe, but only by myself. It's complicated by the fact that my wife actually derives a significant medical benefit from the product, so she's effectively banned from those states for anything more than a day trip. There's nothing to do in Texas that's worth going through that amount of physical pain for her.

[kphoger]

For what it's worth, it appears that a mere speeding ticket cannot land you in jail in Texas, but an officer is free to write a reckless driving ticket to you if you're going 120 mph–which can land you in jail.

[kphoger]

I don't disagree with this point, speed alone should not be considered "reckless" , and the speed limits should be higher, but how does this back up the claim that 20 mph or over 85 mph is automatically reckless?

Keep working on him, |sprjus4|.  You've almost got his opinion whittled down to common sense.

The progression thus far:

Asserts that over 85 mph is mandatory reckless driving ticket

but dare to hit 86 mph, mandatory reckless ticket

Asserts that over 85 is mandatory reckless driving sentence, even if not ticketed as such

The cops may have discretion, but am not sure if judges in traffic courts have to sentence them as if they committed a reckless driving charge, after a certain amount over, despite whether the cops wrote the ticket as such.

Tacitly accepts that 85 over isn't actually mandatory reckless driving at all

Well they shouldn't even be allowed to cite reckless just for 25 over.

The next step is to question whether he thinks 45 in a 20mph school zone should never be considered reckless driving.

Yes if should, because going 45 on a local road like that is far, far, far more dangerous than going 120 on a wide open interstate. It's more than double the speed limit, 120 may only be 1.5x the limit in some states.

Then you don't actually believe that "they shouldn't even be allowed to cite reckless just for 25 over", do you?

[Rothman]

This thread's going off the rails on a crazy train.

[Rothman]

I hate the smell of marijuana.  Can't imagine if my car smelled like it.

[kphoger]

Holy roach clip, Batman!

How the heck did we get from speed limits to abortion, child abuse, decriminalization, veganism, and trafficking?

I would not dare venture into any of those states not knowing what weird, idiotic, ridiculous, Overbearing laws I may be breaking from another state.

So, then, what states would you venture to?  That is to say, which states are you 100% certain don't have any weird, idiotic, ridiculous, overbearing laws?

[JayhawkCO]

Holy roach clip, Batman!

How the heck did we get from speed limits to abortion, child abuse, decriminalization, veganism, and trafficking?

I would not dare venture into any of those states not knowing what weird, idiotic, ridiculous, Overbearing laws I may be breaking from another state.

So, then, what states would you venture to?  That is to say, which states are you 100% certain don't have any weird, idiotic, ridiculous, overbearing laws?

In Denver, it's illegal to perform acrobatics near a horse.

Chris

[Flint1979]

I shunpike always so I will never get stuck with paying a ridiculous toll. The only examples of me using a toll road or when I positively have to. Such as crossing the Mackinac Bridge to go to the &pper Peninsula. I honestly have no desire to be east of the Hudson River anymore so I don't think any of those toll bridges will ever come into my view. The ridiculous toll on the Chicago Skyway is what ultimately led to me shunpiking all the time.

[Flint1979]

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

Clue:

If you're at the point of flat-out refusing to drive in multiple states, then the problem does not lie with how those states enforce laws.  The problem lies with you.

I also have no reason to, there is no possible route between any two states you would have to take that would require going through Michigan, and unless you want to get covid no reason to head south!

So you've decided that you'll never have any reason to drive through Michigan until you die of old age?

If that's the case, then what point are you even making?

Yes, because the geometry of the US makes it completely unnecessary to ever pass through Michgian, the same way you would never pass through Key West Florida to go anywhere other than Key West, common sense. My initial point was that after hearing years ago about how the state victimized a 19 yo with jail+sex registration, who was essentially deceived+ catfished by an underage teen, I was not surprised at all that I would be chartered off to jail after going 120 mph because of the speed alone. Anything fun is forbidden and illegal!

I disagree that Michigan is not a travel through state in the same sense that Key West Florida is. When you go to Key West you have nowhere else to go besides Key West. It is very possible to travel through Michigan and come out and do another state. One could enter Michigan on I-75 or US-23 near Toledo and exit Michigan on US-2 in Ironwood. It's probably not the shortest or quickest way but it is a way to get there.

[kphoger]

I disagree that Michigan is not a travel through state in the same sense that Key West Florida is. When you go to Key West you have nowhere else to go besides Key West. It is very possible to travel through Michigan and come out and do another state. One could enter Michigan on I-75 or US-23 near Toledo and exit Michigan on US-2 in Ironwood. It's probably not the shortest or quickest way but it is a way to get there.

According to Google Maps, it's nearly the exact same distance from Cleveland (OH) to Ashland (WI) either way.

[kphoger]

Holy roach clip, Batman!

How the heck did we get from speed limits to abortion, child abuse, decriminalization, veganism, and trafficking?

I would not dare venture into any of those states not knowing what weird, idiotic, ridiculous, Overbearing laws I may be breaking from another state.

So, then, what states would you venture to?  That is to say, which states are you 100% certain don't have any weird, idiotic, ridiculous, overbearing laws?

Nevada and Nebraska are my number one choices. I brought up the child abuse to point out the hypocrisy of how hyper-religious states obsess over the right of a clump of cells to be born, but then once it's born, then they could care less how it is treated. I'm not saying I 100% agree with abortion, but IMO an unwanted child being dumped in a foster hell hole for over a decade is worse than the 2 minutes of pain it could theoretically feel being disassembled, assuming it could even feel pain. It seems the only reason those states are so "prolife" is because they are pro suffering and death ends suffering. I wonder when law makers will realize how contradictory bans on Euthanasia are while practicing capital punishment.

Stop bringing up abortion in a thread about speed limits.

[hotdogPi]

I shunpike always so I will never get stuck with paying a ridiculous toll. The only examples of me using a toll road or when I positively have to. Such as crossing the Mackinac Bridge to go to the &pper Peninsula. I honestly have no desire to be east of the Hudson River anymore so I don't think any of those toll bridges will ever come into my view. The ridiculous toll on the Chicago Skyway is what ultimately led to me shunpiking all the time.

If you're going to Massachusetts or farther north, US 20 is free across the Hudson.

[sprjus4]

Cleveland, Ohio and Ashland, Wisconsin are not located in Michigan.

[kphoger]

... that's horrible, all drugs should be decriminalized ... Banning Marijuana is insane enough, let alone medical Marijuana. I would not dare venture into any of those states  ...

So, then, what states would you venture to? ...

... and Nebraska are my number one choices. ...

Anyone else see a problem with this gentleman's logic?

[JayhawkCO]

... that's horrible, all drugs should be decriminalized ... Banning Marijuana is insane enough, let alone medical Marijuana. I would not dare venture into any of those states  ...

So, then, what states would you venture to? ...

... and Nebraska are my number one choices. ...

Anyone else see a problem with this gentleman's logic?

There are two nouns in your sentence that I might question the validity of.

Chris

[Flint1979]

I shunpike always so I will never get stuck with paying a ridiculous toll. The only examples of me using a toll road or when I positively have to. Such as crossing the Mackinac Bridge to go to the &pper Peninsula. I honestly have no desire to be east of the Hudson River anymore so I don't think any of those toll bridges will ever come into my view. The ridiculous toll on the Chicago Skyway is what ultimately led to me shunpiking all the time.

If you're going to Massachusetts or farther north, US 20 is free across the Hudson.

I would probably be ok with that area. It's mainly the NYC area and the area around there that I want to avoid. I know it's free from Albany to the north.

[Flint1979]

I disagree that Michigan is not a travel through state in the same sense that Key West Florida is. When you go to Key West you have nowhere else to go besides Key West. It is very possible to travel through Michigan and come out and do another state. One could enter Michigan on I-75 or US-23 near Toledo and exit Michigan on US-2 in Ironwood. It's probably not the shortest or quickest way but it is a way to get there.

According to Google Maps, it's nearly the exact same distance from Cleveland (OH) to Ashland (WI) either way.

The only thing I see with it being quicker going through Indiana, Illinois and into Wisconsin that way is that when you are in Wisconsin you have a chance to move more west and have that to your advantage where if you go through Michigan you have to go to the Mackinac Bridge you have no other choice.

[SectorZ]

I will never drive in Michigan, Virginia, or North Carolina.

Clue:

If you're at the point of flat-out refusing to drive in multiple states, then the problem does not lie with how those states enforce laws.  The problem lies with you.

I also have no reason to, there is no possible route between any two states you would have to take that would require going through Michigan, and unless you want to get covid no reason to head south!

So you've decided that you'll never have any reason to drive through Michigan until you die of old age?

If that's the case, then what point are you even making?

Yes, because the geometry of the US makes it completely unnecessary to ever pass through Michgian, the same way you would never pass through Key West Florida to go anywhere other than Key West, common sense. My initial point was that after hearing years ago about how the state victimized a 19 yo with jail+sex registration, who was essentially deceived+ catfished by an underage teen, I was not surprised at all that I would be chartered off to jail after going 120 mph because of the speed alone. Anything fun is forbidden and illegal!

I am going to let you in on some news. In all 50 states, someone 19 years old has banged a minor and gone to jail for it. I bet in all 50 states someone has gone to jail for driving 120 MPH as well.

Wrong, many states, including the neighboring one, Indiana, (which is where that guy lived but crossed the state line to hook up) allow ignorance of age as a defense, not Michigan. The point is he did nothing wrong and the courts made an example out of him, when there was literally no victim. The judge who sentenced him even stated his personal grudge against hook-up culture as part of his reason for the harsh sentence. Many states allow reasonable close in age exemptions, only places like CA don't. What's even more stupid is that he got punished more simply because he crossed a state line! Laws shouldn't be so drastically different by state. And you are also wrong about the 120 mph, states like Texas have specific laws where you cannot get arrested for speeding alone, no matter how fast, some states have prima face speed limits where you can get a ticket entirely dismissed if you prove it was safe for conditions, no jail, no fine, dismissed. Some states have a hybrid system, where you'll can o ly use this prima cache defense up to certain speeds or only on certain roads. But I take back what I said because it was a false equivalency, me going 120 deserves jail time more than the sex case because at least you can claim there was a chance of endangering people's lives, even in the best road conditions, but the two teens having consensual sex literally were harming NO ONE. He literally got punished for absolutely nothing, pure stupidity. Even if there is only 1 car on the road every 20 miles, there is still am existent chance that I could end up getting into accident with them going 120, non-0. So let me modify what I said, Michgian is irrational for that case/law alone even if they had no speed limits. I know for a fact that when I move, it will never be to a Nazi state like CA, Michigan, Idaho. Etc I can guarantee you in 100 years there will never be a reason worthy enough to go to them. Imagine if marital rape/women on men rape was prosecuted as vigorously as statutory rape BS, but at least with speeding there is always some risk to justify a penalty, but absolutely nothing jn the other case.

The victim was the underage girl that could not legally consent to having sex.

[kphoger]

The victim was the underage girl that could not legally consent to having sex.

Exactly.  The age of consent varies by state.  That about sums it up.

[Scott5114]

I hate the smell of marijuana.  Can't imagine if my car smelled like it.

I deal with it either while it's still in the ground or just after harvest, and it actually smells quite a bit different fresh than it does when it's smoked. Cultivation has come a long way now that it's legal, too, so the plants have been bred over time to smell more pleasant (there was one strain I defoliated that smelled just like orange chicken).

But there's no way to keep that smell from transferring to my car, because there's always some bit of trim or resin that sticks to my shirt without me noticing and falls off in there. I wouldn't want my car to smell like marijuana smoke either, but smelling like fresh bud is fine, for my sake, at least–can't imagine what people in drive-thrus and places like that must think of me!