Difference in Music Genres

[roadman65]

I was often wondering what the difference is between Rap and R & B?  To me these days both genres sound alike.  To me Club Novaes cover version of Bill Withers Lean On Me is a rap song, but I once mentioned that in a thread many many years ago and one user here basically said that I was crazy.  Now true it may be classified by the music industry as R & B, or whatever it was at the time, but I was making my own opinion that was stating that to me personally I consider it to be Rap, not that it was a Rap song.

Just like telemarketers, which there are far too many, we basically treat it all as there being one annoying source for bothering us at home.  So, for example, if Frank's Telemarketing is calling you to say you have been upgraded for a higher limit credit card, and you tell them to "Not call you back ever again!" and then days later Joe's Telemarketing calls you representing another credit card company asking you the same question, we generally will say to Joe: " Didn't I tell you last week that I did not want to be bothered and you call me again!"  That is because in our minds all telemarketing has the same modus operandi and therefore we do not differentiate them all as individuals and we treat all of them as the same person.

To me I feel the same with Hip Hop, some R & B, and Rap has the same M.O and even though Rap is generally with partial melody ad lib wording usually (although some artists I am sure actually took the time to actually write words for the piece) while electronic drums and synthesizers play the instrumentation with ocassional guitars, and lately music from other songs, I still say the more melodic R & B has something very much in common with it and so does Hip Hop with its wild melodies and beats and loud music.

I know my parents generation consider Rock, Heavy Metal, Disco, and Rap to be the same and they have no problems at all differentiating them even though Rock is basically a whole different type of music from the others as during the 80's many would have a friendly argument about how rock is better than Rap or vise versa or even Rock verses Disco in the 70's.  I know this is the same as that only from a age later, as Rap came out later shortly followed by Club which later turned to Hip Hop, so I guess being I did not like Rap because of my Rock liking, I just got careless and gave all other music related to it the same title.

However, I am interested as knowing what are the differences between Rap, Modern R & B, and Hip Hop.  I even was talking about this with someone at a local bar, who feels like I do and even pointed out the fact that R & B started out slow in the 60's and it got more aggressive over the 80's and 90's.  What used to be mellow Motown, Soul, and even Soft Rock songs by artists like Percy Sledge, The Drifters, Diana Ross, and even Stevie Wonder is now what Beyonce sings which is a big shift in music, but the same genre.  Plus you can even have two different artists perform the same songs and be classified as two different categories like Percy Sledge and Michael Bolton both performing When A Man Loves A Woman in the same manner, and yet ole Michael is only classified as Soft Rock even though Percy is very much R & B.  How and what are the guidelines that the music industry places on songs and where is the line between them and in some cases no line drawn?

[hotdogPi]

Even though I'm 14, I listen to music older than those genres. Sorry, I can't help you.

[formulanone]

I'd consider the genres in this way...your mileage and discography may vary

Rhythm and Blues: Love and emotions tied romance
Rap/Hip-Hop: Deals with more serious issues on life and politics

Rhythm and Blues has obviously been around a lot longer than rap, which hadn't really been considered a "commercial" genre (signed to a record label for mass distribution) to itself until 1979-80. And as rap grew in various places, various styles and sub-genres sprung from that...there's sites that will break it down nicely, if you want to be specific. There's always going to be crossover stuff that blends the two (or more?), so you seem to have more popular albums today that deal with multiple genres to attract more listeners - in my opinion.

For a really great place to see and hear how electronic music, including Rap/Hip-Hop, got its roots and how it spread out, I highly recommend checking out Ishkur's Guide, and go right to the "Breakbeat" section on the left.

Also, NSFW - in sections; I'm not sure how well it works on a phone, though.

[Zeffy]

I'm a fan of old rap and hip hop, as well as some newer music produced today. However, some of the rap produced today literally revolves around killing other people, doing drugs, drinking alcohol, "acquiring women" (interpret that as you will), buying expensive shit, and seeing how many times you can say a certain word associated with black males and rap in a single verse. That's what rap has turned into, sadly. As far as the differences go, usually I want to say hip-hop has a more pronounced beat (...and seems to include what I mentioned before), whereas rap seems to be about hardships and getting through them. For example, here's a few songs that I believe would be classified as Hip Hop rather than rap:

• Power by Kanye West
• Holy Grail by Jay Z ft. Justin Timberlake
• Breathe by Fabulous
• Thrift Shop by Macklemore and Ryan Lewis
• Not Afraid by Eminem

Of course, feel free to disagree with me, but I'm just putting out my opinion on the subject.

[roadman65]

That is it, it goes by genres dividing into sub genres as Hip Hop I think came from Rap and R &B.

That is it with genres being sub of another genre.  Rap is from R & B, Hip Hop broke away from Rap.  Rock and Roll came from Blues, and Disco came from Rock and Roll.

Then like you said politics has a play in it. Look at Soul, is is a sub genre of both Adult Contemporary and part of R & B as it was the radical 60's when it was launched.  It was a music classification to give recognition to Black artists at the time as if the songs we knew as Soul were classified as Soft Rock or Adult Contemporary many artists would be among many.  In a way I think that latter one is more fair, because we have many European American artists who have done Soul songs and never got credited as their version being Soul, but AC or SR.  Lets say if Stevie Wonder was white and performed the same songs he done and sung and played the instruments like he done, he would not be called a Soul musician.  I am not to say that Stevie Wonder is a bad musician at all.  In fact I love his music as well as many artists of all races!  Just to point out the political times of the 60's and how it influenced music.

[Brandon]

It's a valid question.  I'd say rap and hip-hop tend to have more spoken word and a staccato rhythm to the verses whereas R&B and soul tend to have more singing and a smoother rhythm to the verses.  Of course, there is a lot of crossover.

[Molandfreak]

They all seem to blend together these days, since popular music has mostly become a giant melting pot with artists from all different genres collaborating. I sort of agree with Brandon on the distinction. The lines blur a little more when you look at these genres pre-2000 to today (Whoomp There it is and Gangsta's Paradise are examples of widely-classified '90s rap songs that would no doubt be R&B today).

Even though I'm 14, I listen to music older than those genres. Sorry, I can't help you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues#Late_1940s

[NE2]

There's been nothing good since Thick as a Brick.

[Brian556]

I like a wide variety of music. I like Rock/Pop/Country/R&B. I don't even bother trying to worry about classifications anymore. I just put together what sounds good together into playlists and listen to it.

It's interesting that there have been at least two big hit sings recently that mix electric pop with country. "Timber" by Ke$ha & Pitbull, and "Wake Me Up" by Avecii.

It's unfortunate that there isn't a whole lot of soft rock/R&B coming out anymore. This seems to have mostly went away in the early 90's; with Michael Bolton and Mariah Carey being the last big artists to do a lot of this type of music.

Lady Antebellum's "Just A Kiss" is a nice throwback to this type of music.

[bugo]

"Hip hop" and "rap" are pretty much synonymous.  R&B is different, however.  It's pretty obvious what hip hop is, but R&B usually has high pitched falsetto vocals with a stripped down production.  R&B of the '50s and '60s and modern R&B are totally different types of music.

[Takumi]

I've noticed "hip hop" is used more by fans of the genre, while "rap" is used by those who either indifferent to it or detractors of it.

[formulanone]

You can rap, but you can't hip-hop. I call it rap, even though I have roughly 50 albums or so under the so-called Hip Hop genre. To be fair, I'm rather indifferent towards most of the stuff created in the past 15-20 years, although there's some recently stuff that's low-key and commercially unpopular which is pretty good. I won't over-classify my music much - perhaps 12 simple genres, since 1) it makes it too stringent when making mixes on my iPod and 2) kind of makes someone sound like a pretentious tool when they've carved everything into its own niche or declare half of their collection sui generis, just to make conversations more burdensome.

[roadman65]

I forgot I started this one, but both Formula One and Takumi hit the nail on the head.  The two are synonymous as bugo puts it, but say that to a die hard fan of today's R & B and they get literal on you.   I once called one R & B song a rap tune, and the guy was trying to make his own ego feel better by pointing out that I have no clue over what music is!  Part of that is true when it comes to genres that change, and when both are in the same class.

Many people from the pre world war II days, consider rock and disco to be synonymous in the same manner as to them its all noise compared to Sinatra, The Andrew Sisters, and the Big Band music.  So our new generation is somewhat paying us back for what we did for our parents.

What I would like to know is why the 50's rock and the later rock were eventually segregated on modern radio stations?  You never heard Bill Hailey mixed in with The Who and Led Zeppelin even though they are the exact same genre.  You had to tune into a Golden Oldies station that would play that and the Classic Rock stations for the post British Invasion stuff.  Then what was more confusing is the fact that the Carpenters, Neil Diamond, Streisand, etc. were played along with the 50's stuff when these songs from these artists were another genre called Adult Contemporary.  Plus many Carpenters stuff you could not call a Golden Oldie in the  1970's  as they're stuff was brand new to the scene at that particular time.    Then in the 1990's there was a cut off again where post 1993 stuff was no longer played on Classic Rock Stations and you had to go to the next age of rock stations even for classic artists like Clapton and Van Halen.

Genre's definitions obviously change for some music or they stay the same as with Rock, but have different stations sensor them altogether.

[Scott5114]

Then in the 1990's there was a cut off again where post 1993 stuff was no longer played on Classic Rock Stations and you had to go to the next age of rock stations even for classic artists like Clapton and Van Halen.

This "cut-off" appears to be moving forward. Both of the classic rock stations in Oklahoma City that I listen to frequently have added Nirvana, Green Day, and Stone Temple Pilots to their regular playlists.

[Takumi]

^ Indeed. The classic rock station Richmond kind of eased into it, adding bands that were popular in the 90s (Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Red Hot Chili Peppers, STP, even Three Doors Down, but not other bands like Green Day or the Smashing Pumpkins), but just calling it "Rock 96.5" before eventually throwing "Classic" back in there. That has a topic somewhere on here.

[roadman65]

Then in the 1990's there was a cut off again where post 1993 stuff was no longer played on Classic Rock Stations and you had to go to the next age of rock stations even for classic artists like Clapton and Van Halen.

This "cut-off" appears to be moving forward. Both of the classic rock stations in Oklahoma City that I listen to frequently have added Nirvana, Green Day, and Stone Temple Pilots to their regular playlists.

We have no classic rock in Orlando anymore, so I do not know about that.  Cox Media Group changed formats by moving one of their AM talk stations onto FM now, and then turning the old AM talk station into all sports.  The reason was ratings and demographics in Central Florida.  Plus, the demand for talk radio has increased due to our current political situation in Washington, and the fact that Cox was trying to use the decrease in rock listeners to be able to promote AM talk to a whole new audience!  Most FM listeners rarely listen to AM, so they thought they would bring AM to FM so to speak. 

Its good to know that some rock stations are still around.  I know in NYC, WNEW fell, which none of thought they would, but did eventually.  Then again WPLJ did years earlier, and now WPLJ is a whole new format.  The last I heard PLJ was Top 40 hits, but that was two years almost.  I believe that Clear Channel kept another rock station around 104 on the NYC area dial, but then again NY most likely has a bigger rock audience than Orlando and Tampa. 

Many of the classic WNEW and WPLJ Disc Jockeys are now hosts on Sirius FM. Even the old MTV (back when they played videos)talent is on some Sirius Stations.  Martha Quinn, I believe, is on the 90's at 9, and Alan Jackson is on Prime Cuts with Pat St. John (former Rock DJ Veteran).  I had a rental car in Houston on my last big road trip, that had Sirius in it and it was nice to hear the talent that I grew up with.

[NE2]

We have no classic rock in Orlando anymore

104.1 has it nights and weekends.

[Indyroads]

It seems that the old tried and true stations that existed for decades just dont really exist by and large. its like radio station roulette anymore. they change formats at the drop of a hat.

[Scott5114]

It seems that the old tried and true stations that existed for decades just dont really exist by and large. its like radio station roulette anymore. they change formats at the drop of a hat.

Most of the major stations in Oklahoma City still do, to my knowledge. (Heck, KOMA, which a lot of people remember as a clear channel station in the 50s, is still on the air.) KRXO recently changed frequencies though...dropping to 250W (!) in the process.

[Henry]

Seems to me that many songs fall under more than one category, as they're played on a myriad of differently-formatted stations. For example, in 1967 you could hear the Temptations on R&B and Top-40 radio (though in the 1980s they were eventually being played on easy listening/soft rock stations as well); today, a song like Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines is played on as many as 10 different stations in the same market! Pun intended, it blurs the lines as to what the artist closely identifies with. Same thing with anything Beyonce puts out nowadays (and my daughter absolutely loves her!); she used to be strictly R&B dating back to her Destiny's Child days, but now her music's being spread all over the spectrum. Just my two cents.

It seems that the old tried and true stations that existed for decades just dont really exist by and large. its like radio station roulette anymore. they change formats at the drop of a hat.

It's sad, really, that it's getting more common now.

[golden eagle]

I was often wondering what the difference is between Rap and R & B?  To me these days both genres sound alike.  To me Club Novaes cover version of Bill Withers Lean On Me is a rap

Club Nouveau, and, no, it's not a rap song.

However, I am interested as knowing what are the differences between Rap, Modern R & B, and Hip Hop.  I even was talking about this with someone at a local bar, who feels like I do and even pointed out the fact that R & B started out slow in the 60's and it got more aggressive over the 80's and 90's.  What used to be mellow Motown, Soul, and even Soft Rock songs by artists like Percy Sledge, The Drifters, Diana Ross, and even Stevie Wonder is now what Beyonce sings which is a big shift in music, but the same genre.  Plus you can even have two different artists perform the same songs and be classified as two different categories like Percy Sledge and Michael Bolton both performing When A Man Loves A Woman in the same manner, and yet ole Michael is only classified as Soft Rock even though Percy is very much R & B.  How and what are the guidelines that the music industry places on songs and where is the line between them and in some cases no line drawn?

Rap & hip-hop are pretty much interchangeable. As far as R&B today compared to yesteryear, it's evolving, like any other type of music does.

Music these days hardly ever fall into one certain category. For example, "Blurred Lines" by Robin Thicke can be classified as R&B/urban, pop and even adult contemporary. Florida Georgia Line crossed over to pop last year, thanks to Nelly collaborating with them on "Cruise". I don't think it's so much the labels that categorize artists/songs as it is radio and other music outlets that do.

[JawnwoodS96]

However, I am interested as knowing what are the differences between Rap, Modern R & B, and Hip Hop.  I even was talking about this with someone at a local bar, who feels like I do and even pointed out the fact that R & B started out slow in the 60's and it got more aggressive over the 80's and 90's.  What used to be mellow Motown, Soul, and even Soft Rock songs by artists like Percy Sledge, The Drifters, Diana Ross, and even Stevie Wonder is now what Beyonce sings which is a big shift in music, but the same genre.  Plus you can even have two different artists perform the same songs and be classified as two different categories like Percy Sledge and Michael Bolton both performing When A Man Loves A Woman in the same manner, and yet ole Michael is only classified as Soft Rock even though Percy is very much R & B.  How and what are the guidelines that the music industry places on songs and where is the line between them and in some cases no line drawn?

The differences between rap and hip-hop are sometimes hard to determine. Though I would classify it as such: hip-hop is primarily urban, dealing with numerous subjects across the board. Rap can be spread through any genre (Heck Linkin Park sometimes raps).

R&B is a completely different genre. It's slower, more mellow, and usually the only subject is love.

I think all three are sometimes put into one boat together because they make up the so-called "urban music" scene.