Your preference for highway service stops?

[jeffandnicole]

With a closed ticket system, do time stamps catch you for speeding if you arrive too early?  I usually stop at a service plaza even if just to rest a bit just to be on the safe side.

I've had this discussion a number of times, as the rumor predates the Internet. My first experience with a closed ticketed system was on the Kansas Turnpike in 1991, and even back then I had heard rumors that if your average speed between toll booths where you received and surrendered your ticket showed you had exceeded the speed limit (then still 55 mph) you could be ticketed.

I'm not sure where I may have heard that, or even how, back in 1991. There certainly wasn't the means available the way there is now to either spread the rumor, or debunk it.

I believe it was proposed at some point, so sort of not so much just a rumor - but never implemented. Wouldn't be surprized if that happens at some point - primarily for revenue as long haul toll roads are already on a safer side of things. 
All toll-related speeding tickets i heard of were about driving too fast between then-manned toll booths. Reasoning was that people are walking between the booths, so please be reasonable - or else.

These have always been rumors, and nothing more.

For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

So for these reasons and more, using EZ Pass, or even a toll ticket, alone can't result in a speeding ticket.

If you're pulling into a rest area specifically to "fool" the system, you're wasting your time.

[tolbs17]

I prefer the ones that are just traditional. Have restrooms and vending machines.

[jmacswimmer]

I've heard of E-ZPass users receiving warnings for going thru individual plaza lanes too fast (sometimes with a perhaps-empty, perhaps-not threat of suspending the user's account), but never anything along the lines of comparing entry/exit times per the discussion above.  I do remember MassDOT specifically making a point of stating they would not be using their new gantries to check speeds back when they were transitioning to AET in 2016.

As to the OP...I like the sound of stopping at on-highway service plazas in theory, but in practice I tend to agree with what Max Rockatansky stated in the 2nd post: busy parking lots & long lines that often negate the time savings compared to exiting the highway and finding a quieter (and therefore quicker) establishment.

I may have used this example elsewhere in another rest area/service plaza thread: on the I-95 corridor northeast of Baltimore, the Maryland & Chesapeake Houses tend to be busy enough that I often prefer to find something quieter (Wawa, for example) around MD exit 109/DE exit 1 - which then combines nicely with a shunpike frequently discussed on this forum

[1995hoo]

....

For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

So for these reasons and more, using EZ Pass, or even a toll ticket, alone can't result in a speeding ticket.

....

In theory, any given state could either enact a new statute or amend an existing one to get around the issues you note. It wouldn't be terribly difficult to do.

[HighwayStar]

Well I am encouraged to see there seems to be a lot of love for the service plaza here. 

I will also note, for those fortunate enough not to have seen that other thread, that the actual proposal is not quite what the poll covers (not a criticism of the poll, it is an accurate status quo poll).

The actual proposal would be something like service plazas run by leaseholders that bid on the rights for medium terms, say 5 years. Plazas would be built on all major roads, toll or not, and the density would probabally be higher than existing roads sometimes have (for example, the PA turnpike originally had quite a few more service plazas than it does now).

[kalvado]

Well I am encouraged to see there seems to be a lot of love for the service plaza here. 

I will also note, for those fortunate enough not to have seen that other thread, that the actual proposal is not quite what the poll covers (not a criticism of the poll, it is an accurate status quo poll).

The actual proposal would be something like service plazas run by leaseholders that bid on the rights for medium terms, say 5 years. Plazas would be built on all major roads, toll or not, and the density would probabally be higher than existing roads sometimes have (for example, the PA turnpike originally had quite a few more service plazas than it does now).

You may also want to notice that Thruway - one of pretty plaza-rich roads - has about 2% of revenue coming from concessions. While Thruway charges pretty steep toll compared to federal gas tax,  it is still a single digit %% of  the total.

[HighwayStar]

Well I am encouraged to see there seems to be a lot of love for the service plaza here. 

I will also note, for those fortunate enough not to have seen that other thread, that the actual proposal is not quite what the poll covers (not a criticism of the poll, it is an accurate status quo poll).

The actual proposal would be something like service plazas run by leaseholders that bid on the rights for medium terms, say 5 years. Plazas would be built on all major roads, toll or not, and the density would probabally be higher than existing roads sometimes have (for example, the PA turnpike originally had quite a few more service plazas than it does now).

You may also want to notice that Thruway - one of pretty plaza-rich roads - has about 2% of revenue coming from concessions. While Thruway charges pretty steep toll compared to federal gas tax,  it is still a single digit %% of  the total.

When I did the sizing exercise on PA I came to a similar conclusion, obviously the existing systems fail to capture nearly as much revenue as they should from Plazas. This could be due to any number of factors (structure of contracts, bidding processes, etc) but given how large the off highway industry is it should be possible to capture much more.

[hbelkins]

I may have used this example elsewhere in another rest area/service plaza thread: on the I-95 corridor northeast of Baltimore, the Maryland & Chesapeake Houses tend to be busy enough that I often prefer to find something quieter (Wawa, for example) around MD exit 109/DE exit 1 - which then combines nicely with a shunpike frequently discussed on this forum

The biggest problem I have with those two plazas are that they're located in the median, requiring you to merge back in to the high-speed lane of busy I-95.

That's not really an issue with a lightly-traveled rural route like the Western Kentucky Parkway with its media service plaza, although I dislike the short merge area there, but the merge from the Maryland plazas onto I-95 is as much fun as the merge from I-66 west onto I-81 south, or the merge from the "bow tie" in Poughkeepsie onto US 9. That is to say, no fun at all.

[Dirt Roads]

For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

There is certainly a legal precedent that allows such timestamps to be used for speeding violations.  Before railroads started using a train tracking database in their centralized dispatching systems, trains got timestamped when the passed any of the control towers that were still occupied (many of them got converted into remote-controlled towers).  When confronted with a purported speeding violation, we could pull those records to prove that habitual speeding had occurred.  Of course, none of this would be valid if the railroads didn't have super strict rules to prove that all of its clocks were reporting the same time.  (Not sure that the average toll road has implemented that capability, but it is not an expensive add-on).

Speed violations mean something different on the railroads.  But for automobiles, if you did prove a speeding violation via timestamp the affected jurisdictions would still need to have a joint agreement for enforcement.   

[Ted$8roadFan]

I believe the Connecticut Welcome Center on I-84 eastbound near Danbury required exiting the highway at or before the state line (assuming it's still open).

[andrepoiy]

Personally I prefer the on-highway service stops. We have the "ONroutes" in Ontario and they're great (large clean washrooms, a few fast food options, a convenience store, and a gas station). But I don't mind getting off the highway if there's none nearby. I also find the US (especially the eastern half) has lots of options near the exits, so it's not a big deal to use those.

I really only use OnRoutes for washrooms. Gas is so fucking expensive at ONRoute stations, and the markup also exists at the convenience store.

[skluth]

For most states, it would be impossible to determine the jurisdiction where one was speeding. In many states, the speeder would be ticketed in a specific town or county. They can't assume you were speeding everywhere, or in any one jurisdiction. There could also be speed limit changes, either normal ones or temporary work zone limits. If the closed ticket system involves interchanges and ramps, factor in the reduced speed on those ramps.

There is certainly a legal precedent that allows such timestamps to be used for speeding violations.  Before railroads started using a train tracking database in their centralized dispatching systems, trains got timestamped when the passed any of the control towers that were still occupied (many of them got converted into remote-controlled towers).  When confronted with a purported speeding violation, we could pull those records to prove that habitual speeding had occurred.  Of course, none of this would be valid if the railroads didn't have super strict rules to prove that all of its clocks were reporting the same time.  (Not sure that the average toll road has implemented that capability, but it is not an expensive add-on).

Speed violations mean something different on the railroads.  But for automobiles, if you did prove a speeding violation via timestamp the affected jurisdictions would still need to have a joint agreement for enforcement.

Do the state police have to know the local police jurisdiction when giving a speeding ticket? I wouldn't think so, but I'm ignorant here. I think more that there's no proof that to pin it on a driver, even if only one person was in the car. Even more so if there are occupants in the vehicle.

[1995hoo]

Most likely the state police in almost every state do have to know which local jurisdiction they're in because it usually determines which court has jurisdiction. It can be further complicated if a ticket is issued on federal property–tickets given on the Pentagon Reservation, for example, go to the federal court in Alexandria, Virginia.

That's why I suggested earlier that states could either amend their statutes or enact new ones to provide for time-and-speed tickets that would cross multiple counties or the like. They could establish venue in a particular county's court, or perhaps if they really wanted they could establish a special court (which seems like overkill to me, but certainly there's precedent in the federal system for courts whose jurisdiction is based on particular subjects rather than geography).

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I guess at this point the thing that seems to prevent it mostly is toll authorities fearing it would be bad for business and encourage shunpiking.

[Scott5114]

Do the state police have to know the local police jurisdiction when giving a speeding ticket? I wouldn't think so, but I'm ignorant here. I think more that there's no proof that to pin it on a driver, even if only one person was in the car. Even more so if there are occupants in the vehicle.

In Oklahoma, the Uniform Violations Complaint ticket form used by OHP (which I believe is also used by county sheriffs) requires the officer to fill in the exact location the violation was observed, including the ODOT county number, as well as the address of the court that will be handling the complaint. (Older versions of the form appear to have also required the ODOT control section number and mileage as well.)

These days, it wouldn't be too hard to have all of this information available for lookup from a GIS database on the trooper's in-car computer.

[7/8]

Personally I prefer the on-highway service stops. We have the "ONroutes" in Ontario and they're great (large clean washrooms, a few fast food options, a convenience store, and a gas station). But I don't mind getting off the highway if there's none nearby. I also find the US (especially the eastern half) has lots of options near the exits, so it's not a big deal to use those.

I really only use OnRoutes for washrooms. Gas is so fucking expensive at ONRoute stations, and the markup also exists at the convenience store.

I get a discount for Canadian Tire Gas, which is at most of the ONroutes, so that helps offset the markup. But yes, it's a personal tradeoff between convenience and cost (I usually lean to the former for this case).

[jmacswimmer]

I may have used this example elsewhere in another rest area/service plaza thread: on the I-95 corridor northeast of Baltimore, the Maryland & Chesapeake Houses tend to be busy enough that I often prefer to find something quieter (Wawa, for example) around MD exit 109/DE exit 1 - which then combines nicely with a shunpike frequently discussed on this forum

The biggest problem I have with those two plazas are that they're located in the median, requiring you to merge back in to the high-speed lane of busy I-95.

Yeah, honestly those are some of the nastier left-merges I can think of anywhere.  When a clump of vehicles all exit the plaza at once, it can gum up the entire flow of traffic on the mainline.  (And based on this sign leaving the Maryland House northbound, the MDTA recognizes it's a less-than-ideal situation.)

Whenever I do stop at those plazas, I try to gun it down the onramps (which isn't too hard to do given their longer length and being downhill) and match the speed of left-lane traffic as I'm approaching the mainline...but of course, that's only possible if you aren't following, say, a semi out of the plaza

[1995hoo]

^^^^

It doesn't help that Maryland drivers think they're driving on a British motorway where you keep left except to pass.

[Ned Weasel]

When you're driving a big-rig, it's usually far easier to use a service plaza when your road is blessed with one.  But if you're looking for plentiful parking, the only ones I've found to have generous parking lots are the ones on the Ohio Turnpike.

When you're just driving a car, well, everything's easier when you're driving a car.  One thing that can be annoying about off-highway services, however, is that sometimes you don't know how far away they are from the highway until you've already taken the off-ramp and can read the blue specific service signs.

[webny99]

Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   

And then there's Angola, which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

[Rothman]

Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   

And then there's Angola, which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

Yo dawg, I heard you like threads, so I put a thread in your thread so you can thread while you thread.

[HighwayStar]

Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   

And then there's Angola, which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

Yo dawg, I heard you like threads, so I put a thread in your thread so you can thread while you thread.

[skluth]

Well, I posted this in the thread inspired by this thread, so to come full circle I may as well post it here too, since it certainly describes my "preference" for highway service stops.   

And then there's Angola, which in terms of facilities shared by both directions of traffic, I think is better than the other examples mentioned so far for several reasons:

1. Ramps are on the right so traffic doesn't have to enter/exit from the left lane
2. Doesn't require a massively wide median since parking isn't in the median
3. You get to walk over the highway in a covered bridge, which is pretty cool
4. For toll roads, it can't be used to U-turn since the bridges are pedestrian-only

So yeah, all of that is basically a long way of saying Angola is one of the best service areas there is.

I always liked this solution for sharing services without a left exit/entrance. It's a regular interstate rest area rather than a full-service toll road service area. But northbound traffic goes under the interstate to use the same stop as southbound traffic on the west side of the highway. There was already going to be a bridge here for a local road so they just added a longer bridge for the rest stop access.

Illinois also does a decent job of maintaining this rest area. I've probably stopped here at least a couple dozen times when I lived in St Louis; it's a great halfway point when going to Chicago and even more useful when I was travelling on I-39 with its lack of rest areas south of I-80.

[hotdogPi]

Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

[MATraveler128]

Speaking of Angola... what is it with upstate New York and foreign cities and countries?

I have no idea. There’s a Warsaw, Naples, Rome, Copenhagen, and a bunch more. It must be a New York thing.