Electric Car Arguing 2022

[Mdcastle]

I wouldn't even think of buying a car that can only fulfill 95% of my needs. Not when I can buy a car that fulfils 100% of my needs.

[jeffandnicole]

Well, the Super Bowl commercials certainly made it seem like we're all going to be driving crappy EVs in no time.

It wasn't all that long ago the commercials were heavily loaded towards internet sites, shopping, etc. 

Guess what we are do now.

Times are a changing.  You won't necessary be forced to buy an electronic vehicle, but there's going to be a lot more options that you see today, with features that aren't necessarily available today like 500+ mile ranges.

[Duke87]

As time goes on and EVs become more common, I think the real threat to roadtrip vacations will not be charging times (I don't see 15 minutes as a problem as long as it really is only 15 minutes--standard advice when driving is to take breaks of that approximate length every 100 miles) [...]

I personally find the objection to the 15 minute charging time to be rather surprising. After all, on a road trip, it's fairly common for me to break for lunch for at least 30 minutes.

So, the charging time isn't 15 minutes. It's 60 minutes at minimum.

If the charging time were 15 minutes that'd be manageable, but lithium ion battery technology physically cannot accommodate this.

[Rothman]

I don't find 15 minutes sitting around to be tolerable.  The time needs to be comparable to a gas fill up.

[kalvado]

As time goes on and EVs become more common, I think the real threat to roadtrip vacations will not be charging times (I don't see 15 minutes as a problem as long as it really is only 15 minutes--standard advice when driving is to take breaks of that approximate length every 100 miles) [...]

I personally find the objection to the 15 minute charging time to be rather surprising. After all, on a road trip, it's fairly common for me to break for lunch for at least 30 minutes.

So, the charging time isn't 15 minutes. It's 60 minutes at minimum.

If the charging time were 15 minutes that'd be manageable, but lithium ion battery technology physically cannot accommodate this.

Charging speed is not constant. There is a range, somewhere between 30 and 70% full, where battery can charge pretty fast. It can mean optimal driving profile would include shorter, but more frequent stops top off battery within optimal charging range

[1995hoo]

As time goes on and EVs become more common, I think the real threat to roadtrip vacations will not be charging times (I don't see 15 minutes as a problem as long as it really is only 15 minutes--standard advice when driving is to take breaks of that approximate length every 100 miles) [...]

I personally find the objection to the 15 minute charging time to be rather surprising. After all, on a road trip, it's fairly common for me to break for lunch for at least 30 minutes.

So, the charging time isn't 15 minutes. It's 60 minutes at minimum.

If the charging time were 15 minutes that'd be manageable, but lithium ion battery technology physically cannot accommodate this.

Charging speed is not constant. There is a range, somewhere between 30 and 70% full, where battery can charge pretty fast. It can mean optimal driving profile would include shorter, but more frequent stops top off battery within optimal charging range

Car and Driver said they found otherwise: EVs' nav systems tend to run conservatively–for completely understandable reasons–and therefore favor frequent but short charging. ("As we crossed middle America, the nav system recommended stopping at almost every Supercharger along our route.") In an article about a long-term test of a Tesla Model S, the magazine's writers noted, "But because the charging rate slows as the battery fills, we found it quicker to ignore Tesla's recommendations, drive the car to near empty, and plug it in for only slightly longer charges. Our routine: Drive between 120 to 200 miles at roughly 5 mph over the speed limit, charge for 20 to 45 minutes to a predicted range 50 miles greater than what was needed for the next stint, then get back on the road. ... Traveling in this manner requires some advanced planning to know which chargers to visit and which to bypass."

Regarding the range, this was in an older issue, not last summer's "EV of the Year" issue I mentioned further up the thread. Newer EVs, especially newer Tesla Model S vehicles, have considerably improved range over the one they were testing. The EV of the Year issue did mention that frequent stops to top off the battery are not the most efficient way to travel because the same principle still holds about charging speed slowing.

[GaryV]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

I delayed replacing my current vehicle because of the current supply problems; instead I put money into it for brakes and suspension that I hope will get it through another year or two without further high-cost repairs.

I knew I didn't want to worry about an EV or a plug-in hybrid at this time; they are in even shorter supply than ICE vehicles.  In a year or two, maybe. But that still depends on whether a home charging station is viable. We have a one-car garage filled up with non-car things, and a single width driveway. The space between the neighbor's fence and our back door is quite narrow so we wouldn't like to park the car there for charging.

[kalvado]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

[1995hoo]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

[Henry]

Apparently, GM remains committed to its goal of an all-EV lineup by 2025, as its Super Bowl ad of Dr. Evil taking over the company may show. Just a few years ago, that goal may have sounded a bit too ambitious, but it seems as though they're being serious about it, as the internal-combustion engine's days are numbered. For example, crosstown rival Stellantis (who owns Chrysler) is going through with ending production of its Hellcat engines, which I'm sure will upset those who were planning on getting a Challenger or Charger, and Ford may one day drop the Coyote and EcoBoost from its lineup as well, though I've heard nothing on that front.

[kalvado]

Apparently, GM remains committed to its goal of an all-EV lineup by 2025, as its Super Bowl ad of Dr. Evil taking over the company may show. Just a few years ago, that goal may have sounded a bit too ambitious, but it seems as though they're being serious about it, as the internal-combustion engine's days are numbered. For example, crosstown rival Stellantis (who owns Chrysler) is going through with ending production of its Hellcat engines, which I'm sure will upset those who were planning on getting a Challenger or Charger, and Ford may one day drop the Coyote and EcoBoost from its lineup as well, though I've heard nothing on that front.

GM  can always hope for another bailout if things don't go as planned

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently, GM remains committed to its goal of an all-EV lineup by 2025, as its Super Bowl ad of Dr. Evil taking over the company may show. Just a few years ago, that goal may have sounded a bit too ambitious, but it seems as though they're being serious about it, as the internal-combustion engine's days are numbered. For example, crosstown rival Stellantis (who owns Chrysler) is going through with ending production of its Hellcat engines, which I'm sure will upset those who were planning on getting a Challenger or Charger, and Ford may one day drop the Coyote and EcoBoost from its lineup as well, though I've heard nothing on that front.

What disappoints me is cars like the Camaro and Challenger are being cancelled.  I'm not opposed to EV Powertrains, but I'm not a fan of cars like that going away or becoming CUVs like the Mach-E.  Hence my existing statements above regarding I feel like CUVs are becoming the new age Mini-Van/Wagon.  In the case of the Camaro GM effed up and went upmarket when the fifth generation car was less expensive.  The Challenger more or less gobbled up much of the market share of the Camaro.

[HighwayStar]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

If you think a Prius has any real back seat room you have never had real back seat room.

[HighwayStar]

As time goes on and EVs become more common, I think the real threat to roadtrip vacations will not be charging times (I don't see 15 minutes as a problem as long as it really is only 15 minutes--standard advice when driving is to take breaks of that approximate length every 100 miles) [...]

I personally find the objection to the 15 minute charging time to be rather surprising. After all, on a road trip, it's fairly common for me to break for lunch for at least 30 minutes.

So, the charging time isn't 15 minutes. It's 60 minutes at minimum.

If the charging time were 15 minutes that'd be manageable, but lithium ion battery technology physically cannot accommodate this.

Charging speed is not constant. There is a range, somewhere between 30 and 70% full, where battery can charge pretty fast. It can mean optimal driving profile would include shorter, but more frequent stops top off battery within optimal charging range

Car and Driver said they found otherwise: EVs' nav systems tend to run conservatively–for completely understandable reasons–and therefore favor frequent but short charging. ("As we crossed middle America, the nav system recommended stopping at almost every Supercharger along our route.") In an article about a long-term test of a Tesla Model S, the magazine's writers noted, "But because the charging rate slows as the battery fills, we found it quicker to ignore Tesla's recommendations, drive the car to near empty, and plug it in for only slightly longer charges. Our routine: Drive between 120 to 200 miles at roughly 5 mph over the speed limit, charge for 20 to 45 minutes to a predicted range 50 miles greater than what was needed for the next stint, then get back on the road. ... Traveling in this manner requires some advanced planning to know which chargers to visit and which to bypass."

Regarding the range, this was in an older issue, not last summer's "EV of the Year" issue I mentioned further up the thread. Newer EVs, especially newer Tesla Model S vehicles, have considerably improved range over the one they were testing. The EV of the Year issue did mention that frequent stops to top off the battery are not the most efficient way to travel because the same principle still holds about charging speed slowing.

Oh wonderful!

Highway Star, pull over at the next service area for vehicle charging.

No thanks Hal, I don't really want to stop yet.

I'm sorry Highway Star, I'm afraid I can't allow you to do that, my self driving feature is pulling us over now

Yeah, nothing like a car that tells you to pull over every 20 miles like you have an incontinent dog in the back seat. What a way to travel!

[HighwayStar]

I wouldn't even think of buying a car that can only fulfill 95% of my needs. Not when I can buy a car that fulfils 100% of my needs.

[1995hoo]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

If you think a Prius has any real back seat room you have never had real back seat room.

As usual, you are using someone else's post to push your own agenda by interpreting it in order to sling insults. I said we were surprised at how much space it did have and that it had more than we expected. I expected something like my old 1982 Accord, where for an adult to ride in the backseat either the front-seat passenger had to pull the seat way up or the rear-seat passenger had to sit with his knees splayed way out to either side. The Prius wasn't anything like that. You cannot disprove the accuracy of any of that because there is nothing inaccurate about it. It refers to rear-seat space in relative terms.

(BTW, my late father purchased a Volvo S90 that my mother now owns. The Prius's rear seat isn't remotely comparable to the space in the Volvo, but no reasonable person would expect it to be.)

[Max Rockatansky]

We took four people in our 2014 Sonic on road trips numerous times.  I don't recall the back seat passengers (mostly adults) complaining about a lack of room unless there was a center bench occupant in the back.  My Impreza isn't much larger than that Sonic and it gets about as much regular use.  I see no need to upsize myself into a vehicle just to get a larger rear seat I don't need. 

[1995hoo]

We took four people in our 2014 Sonic on road trips numerous times.  I don't recall the back seat passengers (mostly adults) complaining about a lack of room unless there was a center bench occupant in the back.  My Impreza isn't much larger than that Sonic and it gets about as much regular use.  I see no need to upsize myself into a vehicle just to get a larger rear seat I don't need. 

Yeah. I was trying to think of the last time I rode in the rear seat of a car, aside from last summer when we took our nephew car shopping and he test-drove a car with the salesman in the front seat and us in the back. Other than that, I'm at a loss. I mentioned my father's Volvo, but I've never ridden in the rear seat–only sat in it briefly when the car was parked in their garage at home.

[Max Rockatansky]

We took four people in our 2014 Sonic on road trips numerous times.  I don't recall the back seat passengers (mostly adults) complaining about a lack of room unless there was a center bench occupant in the back.  My Impreza isn't much larger than that Sonic and it gets about as much regular use.  I see no need to upsize myself into a vehicle just to get a larger rear seat I don't need. 

Yeah. I was trying to think of the last time I rode in the rear seat of a car, aside from last summer when we took our nephew car shopping and he test-drove a car with the salesman in the front seat and us in the back. Other than that, I'm at a loss. I mentioned my father's Volvo, but I've never ridden in the rear seat–only sat in it briefly when the car was parked in their garage at home.

We have a Forester (5 seats) and access to a Chevy Suburban (7 seats) also.  I have found people generally don't really say much different if they are in the back of either of those two vehicles opposed to my Impreza.  I think (this is just my opinion) that a lot of buyers have simply just convinced themselves they need bigger vehicles over what might be more practical for their lifestyles. 

For what it's worth, I have fit baby seats and boosters into all of these cars just fine.  I actually found my Challenger also easily accepts baby and booster seats despite it being a coupe.

[HighwayStar]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

If you think a Prius has any real back seat room you have never had real back seat room.

As usual, you are using someone else's post to push your own agenda by interpreting it in order to sling insults. I said we were surprised at how much space it did have and that it had more than we expected. I expected something like my old 1982 Accord, where for an adult to ride in the backseat either the front-seat passenger had to pull the seat way up or the rear-seat passenger had to sit with his knees splayed way out to either side. The Prius wasn't anything like that. You cannot disprove the accuracy of any of that because there is nothing inaccurate about it. It refers to rear-seat space in relative terms.

(BTW, my late father purchased a Volvo S90 that my mother now owns. The Prius's rear seat isn't remotely comparable to the space in the Volvo, but no reasonable person would expect it to be.)

Nope, this has nothing to do with some secret "agenda", its simply that anyone calling a Prius roomy hardly knows what a proper back seat would be in the first place.

[Max Rockatansky]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

If you think a Prius has any real back seat room you have never had real back seat room.

As usual, you are using someone else's post to push your own agenda by interpreting it in order to sling insults. I said we were surprised at how much space it did have and that it had more than we expected. I expected something like my old 1982 Accord, where for an adult to ride in the backseat either the front-seat passenger had to pull the seat way up or the rear-seat passenger had to sit with his knees splayed way out to either side. The Prius wasn't anything like that. You cannot disprove the accuracy of any of that because there is nothing inaccurate about it. It refers to rear-seat space in relative terms.

(BTW, my late father purchased a Volvo S90 that my mother now owns. The Prius's rear seat isn't remotely comparable to the space in the Volvo, but no reasonable person would expect it to be.)

Nope, this has nothing to do with some secret "agenda", its simply that anyone calling a Prius roomy hardly knows what a proper back seat would be in the first place.

And your thoughts on the matter of back seats found in Toyota Prius models is consensus how?  If anything you sound kind of conceited given that you can't fathom why anyone would hold a differing opinion to you.

Not that I think much of anything about the back seat of any Toyota Prius.  All I've ever had the experience with pertaining to any Prius was driving a couple of them as rentals.

[1995hoo]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

If you think a Prius has any real back seat room you have never had real back seat room.

As usual, you are using someone else's post to push your own agenda by interpreting it in order to sling insults. I said we were surprised at how much space it did have and that it had more than we expected. I expected something like my old 1982 Accord, where for an adult to ride in the backseat either the front-seat passenger had to pull the seat way up or the rear-seat passenger had to sit with his knees splayed way out to either side. The Prius wasn't anything like that. You cannot disprove the accuracy of any of that because there is nothing inaccurate about it. It refers to rear-seat space in relative terms.

(BTW, my late father purchased a Volvo S90 that my mother now owns. The Prius's rear seat isn't remotely comparable to the space in the Volvo, but no reasonable person would expect it to be.)

Nope, this has nothing to do with some secret "agenda", its simply that anyone calling a Prius roomy hardly knows what a proper back seat would be in the first place.

Put up or shut up, asshole: Show me where anyone in this thread called the back seat of a Prius "roomy."

[formulanone]

Hey, maybe we could stop replying to the troll.

[HighwayStar]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

If you think a Prius has any real back seat room you have never had real back seat room.

As usual, you are using someone else's post to push your own agenda by interpreting it in order to sling insults. I said we were surprised at how much space it did have and that it had more than we expected. I expected something like my old 1982 Accord, where for an adult to ride in the backseat either the front-seat passenger had to pull the seat way up or the rear-seat passenger had to sit with his knees splayed way out to either side. The Prius wasn't anything like that. You cannot disprove the accuracy of any of that because there is nothing inaccurate about it. It refers to rear-seat space in relative terms.

(BTW, my late father purchased a Volvo S90 that my mother now owns. The Prius's rear seat isn't remotely comparable to the space in the Volvo, but no reasonable person would expect it to be.)

Nope, this has nothing to do with some secret "agenda", its simply that anyone calling a Prius roomy hardly knows what a proper back seat would be in the first place.

Put up or shut up, asshole: Show me where anyone in this thread called the back seat of a Prius "roomy."

The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

How should one read this if not that the Prius has a spacious back seat?

[1995hoo]

For those who suggest to rent an ICE vehicle when travelling: How many ICE rentals do you think there will be in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

In a long run,  rental fleet will lprobably mimic commute fleet to a large extent. I assume a lot of rentals - at least money-making ones - are business trips, mostly confined in urban, but not transit-rich areas, where EVs would be easy choice. I can even see manufacturers sponsoring EVs for those rentals so people with means can test-drive EV on someone else's dime.

I once rented a Prius on a football trip to Jacksonville partly for the reason you note–I saw it as an interesting opportunity to check one out. I knew I was unlikely to be in the car market any time soon, but a bunch of the guys at our tailgate were very interested in the car and were checking it over. The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

I believe Hertz placed an order for a very large number of Teslas, I assume Model 3s. I'd certainly consider trying one on a trip to visit our relatives in Fort Myers if we fly down and if there are any available since I know there's a Supercharger at Gulf Coast Town Center.

If you think a Prius has any real back seat room you have never had real back seat room.

As usual, you are using someone else's post to push your own agenda by interpreting it in order to sling insults. I said we were surprised at how much space it did have and that it had more than we expected. I expected something like my old 1982 Accord, where for an adult to ride in the backseat either the front-seat passenger had to pull the seat way up or the rear-seat passenger had to sit with his knees splayed way out to either side. The Prius wasn't anything like that. You cannot disprove the accuracy of any of that because there is nothing inaccurate about it. It refers to rear-seat space in relative terms.

(BTW, my late father purchased a Volvo S90 that my mother now owns. The Prius's rear seat isn't remotely comparable to the space in the Volvo, but no reasonable person would expect it to be.)

Nope, this has nothing to do with some secret "agenda", its simply that anyone calling a Prius roomy hardly knows what a proper back seat would be in the first place.

Put up or shut up, asshole: Show me where anyone in this thread called the back seat of a Prius "roomy."

The big thing that surprised all of us was how much space there was in the back seat, considerably more than we'd expected.

How should one read this if not that the Prius has a spacious back seat?

You should read it in exactly the manner it was said. Quit putting words in other people's mouths. As I explained to you, but you apparently either ignored or chose not to read:

I said we were surprised at how much space it did have and that it had more than we expected. I expected something like my old 1982 Accord, where for an adult to ride in the backseat either the front-seat passenger had to pull the seat way up or the rear-seat passenger had to sit with his knees splayed way out to either side. The Prius wasn't anything like that. You cannot disprove the accuracy of any of that because there is nothing inaccurate about it. It refers to rear-seat space in relative terms.

Hey, maybe we could stop replying to the troll.

I don't like to use the "ignore" feature, but I'm thinking I probably ought to do so. This jackass makes my blood pressure rise, which is no doubt exactly what he wants to do. I suspect there's something else, too, but I can't prove it.