Electric Car Arguing 2022

[kalvado]

Hey, maybe we could stop replying to the troll.

I don't like to use the "ignore" feature, but I'm thinking I probably ought to do so. This jackass makes my blood pressure rise, which is no doubt exactly what he wants to do. I suspect there's something else, too, but I can't prove it.

Before hitting post button with an elevated pressure.....  Relax, take a deep breath, step back from computer or phone - go grab some coffee, run a bathroom break,  a quick stretch - whatever. Come back, re-read what you wrote, take a big breath again... and consider closing the tab without posting... 
I would be posting at least 25% more without that technique

[1995hoo]

Hey, maybe we could stop replying to the troll.

I don't like to use the "ignore" feature, but I'm thinking I probably ought to do so. This jackass makes my blood pressure rise, which is no doubt exactly what he wants to do. I suspect there's something else, too, but I can't prove it.

Before hitting post button with an elevated pressure.....  Relax, take a deep breath, step back from computer or phone - go grab some coffee, run a bathroom break,  a quick stretch - whatever. Come back, re-read what you wrote, take a big breath again... and consider closing the tab without posting... 
I would be posting at least 25% more without that technique

That's the problem–I did all that!

[triplemultiplex]

It's fun to read this thread and mentally substitute "horse" for any description of a vroom-vroom car.  Because then it's like it would be ~100 years ago with curmudgeons being all ride-or-die about horses over cars.
"I have to buy this smelly chemical to make it go?  Screw that, my horse can eat grass where ever I am! I won't let those car companies tell me how to get around.  I like the way my horse feels when I ride it.  I saw a car once; they're clearly cramped and uncomfortable.  Plus, then you're stuck driving on 'roads' like a chump.  My horse can go anywhere!"

[noelbotevera]

As time goes on and EVs become more common, I think the real threat to roadtrip vacations will not be charging times (I don't see 15 minutes as a problem as long as it really is only 15 minutes--standard advice when driving is to take breaks of that approximate length every 100 miles) [...]

I personally find the objection to the 15 minute charging time to be rather surprising. After all, on a road trip, it's fairly common for me to break for lunch for at least 30 minutes.

So, the charging time isn't 15 minutes. It's 60 minutes at minimum.

If the charging time were 15 minutes that'd be manageable, but lithium ion battery technology physically cannot accommodate this.

Charging speed is not constant. There is a range, somewhere between 30 and 70% full, where battery can charge pretty fast. It can mean optimal driving profile would include shorter, but more frequent stops top off battery within optimal charging range

So, here's the weird thing about EV charging - it's never consistent.

What is consistent is the amount of volts a charger can provide - it's 240 volts max, because that's how the power grid works. The issue is that not all power stations are created equal (hell, there's two competing standards of charging cable, one that everyone uses and one that Tesla uses). Different power stations can only deliver a certain amount of amps and therefore a certain amount of power (P = I * V). The issue is that these stations do a bad job of telling you what is provided, so one station may charge your battery in 20 minutes (they provide more amps) but another may take 25 or 30. Without using DC fast charging (some electric cars don't even support this), the best 240V chargers can supply 80 amps, or 19.2 kW - a fifth of a 100 kW fast charger.

I can't answer why a lot of public chargers are around 6.5 kW (around 24 amps), especially since NEMA 14-50 - common in RV parks - can supply 40 amps without breaking a sweat. They're probably not using the NEMA standard.

EDIT: Last sentence edited, because there's a huge difference in time between charging at 20 kW and 100 kW.

[HighwayStar]

It's fun to read this thread and mentally substitute "horse" for any description of a vroom-vroom car.  Because then it's like it would be ~100 years ago with curmudgeons being all ride-or-die about horses over cars.
"I have to buy this smelly chemical to make it go?  Screw that, my horse can eat grass where ever I am! I won't let those car companies tell me how to get around.  I like the way my horse feels when I ride it.  I saw a car once; they're clearly cramped and uncomfortable.  Plus, then you're stuck driving on 'roads' like a chump.  My horse can go anywhere!"

And at that time they would have been right, a horse would have been a more dependable way to travel in the early days of the automobile. As the technology became realistically worthwhile they changed their minds. But not all technology evolves that way, some things are just not ever supposed to take off.

[jeffandnicole]

It's fun to read this thread and mentally substitute "horse" for any description of a vroom-vroom car.  Because then it's like it would be ~100 years ago with curmudgeons being all ride-or-die about horses over cars.
"I have to buy this smelly chemical to make it go?  Screw that, my horse can eat grass where ever I am! I won't let those car companies tell me how to get around.  I like the way my horse feels when I ride it.  I saw a car once; they're clearly cramped and uncomfortable.  Plus, then you're stuck driving on 'roads' like a chump.  My horse can go anywhere!"

And at that time they would have been right, a horse would have been a more dependable way to travel in the early days of the automobile. As the technology became realistically worthwhile they changed their minds. But not all technology evolves that way, some things are just not ever supposed to take off.

Like the Hindenburg.

[HighwayStar]

It's fun to read this thread and mentally substitute "horse" for any description of a vroom-vroom car.  Because then it's like it would be ~100 years ago with curmudgeons being all ride-or-die about horses over cars.
"I have to buy this smelly chemical to make it go?  Screw that, my horse can eat grass where ever I am! I won't let those car companies tell me how to get around.  I like the way my horse feels when I ride it.  I saw a car once; they're clearly cramped and uncomfortable.  Plus, then you're stuck driving on 'roads' like a chump.  My horse can go anywhere!"

And at that time they would have been right, a horse would have been a more dependable way to travel in the early days of the automobile. As the technology became realistically worthwhile they changed their minds. But not all technology evolves that way, some things are just not ever supposed to take off.

Like the Hindenburg.

Oh the Hindenburg took off alright, it was landing that had issues. 

[Scott5114]

Oh, I figured it out. HighwayStar's Ultimate Road Trip Car™ is a Carpenter school bus with all of the seats between the driver's and the back row by the emergency exit removed.

[kalvado]

Oh, I figured it out. HighwayStar's Ultimate Road Trip Car™ is a Carpenter school bus with all of the seats between the driver's and the back row by the emergency exit removed.

But where would he sit? Driver seat has to be occupied by a responsible adult...

[HighwayStar]

Oh, I figured it out. HighwayStar's Ultimate Road Trip Car™ is a Carpenter school bus with all of the seats between the driver's and the back row by the emergency exit removed.

Oh heavens no  That would handle like crap, get awful mileage, and be a pain to park.

[Rothman]

*Me taking a drive with HighwayStar*

"Pulls to the right."

[HighwayStar]

*Me taking a drive with HighwayStar*

"Pulls to the right."

Plot twist, the car is right hand drive.

[kalvado]

*Me taking a drive with HighwayStar*

"Pulls to the right."

Plot twist, the car is right hand drive.

Like Apple?

[Rothman]

*Me taking a drive with HighwayStar*

"Pulls to the right."

Plot twist, the car is right hand drive.

Still pulls to the right.

[Duke87]

What is consistent is the amount of volts a charger can provide - it's 240 volts max, because that's how the power grid works.

*because that's how residential wiring works. The grid is perfectly capable of supplying power at much higher voltages, but your home is not built to handle them.

I can't answer why a lot of public chargers are around 6.5 kW (around 24 amps), especially since NEMA 14-50 - common in RV parks - can supply 40 amps without breaking a sweat. They're probably not using the NEMA standard.

Because they're being cheap and sticking to smaller wires. If they wanted to supply more juice they'd need to run larger wires that cost more money to the charger and if they're only installing these things for marketing purposes or LEED points...

[jdbx]

This thread was pretty amusing.  I see a wide variety of opinions, and I thought I would add my first-hand experience:

We have had a Model Y since September 2020.  At the time, the price was comparable to the Toyota Highlander we were replacing.  I have a wife and two teenagers, and we do a lot of traveling thanks to both kids' sports.  It's not uncommon to have to drive a couple hundred miles round-trip for a Saturday soccer match, or to overnight out in the Central Valley for a baseball tournament.  Otherwise, like most people, the majority of our travel is around-town.  We live in a single family house with a garage, and I had a 240V charger wired up into our garage.

Switching to an EV has been a game-changer for us.  The car charges every night, so we start out every day with a "full tank".  We have taken 200+ mile Saturday round-trips without stopping to charge, driving at normal freeway speeds.  The cost of electricity compared to gasoline is significantly less, since we charge overnight on a cheaper rate plan.

We have taken family road trips to places like Disneyland and as far away as San Diego, 500 miles away.  We can make it about 2 hours between stopping to charge, and the average charge is about 20 minutes. (We could travel farther between charges, but the charging speed on these cars is fastest if you don't charge beyond 80% battery)  When we drove to San Diego, we had to stop and charge 3 times.  That's about how many times my family would stop when we were driving an ICE car on the same route, since people need to use the bathroom, have something to eat, etc.

The biggest change to long distance travel habits for our family is that when we travel I now look for a hotel that offers EV charging -or- is located near a Supercharger.

[skluth]

This thread was pretty amusing.  I see a wide variety of opinions, and I thought I would add my first-hand experience:

We have had a Model Y since September 2020.  At the time, the price was comparable to the Toyota Highlander we were replacing.  I have a wife and two teenagers, and we do a lot of traveling thanks to both kids' sports.  It's not uncommon to have to drive a couple hundred miles round-trip for a Saturday soccer match, or to overnight out in the Central Valley for a baseball tournament.  Otherwise, like most people, the majority of our travel is around-town.  We live in a single family house with a garage, and I had a 240V charger wired up into our garage.

Switching to an EV has been a game-changer for us.  The car charges every night, so we start out every day with a "full tank".  We have taken 200+ mile Saturday round-trips without stopping to charge, driving at normal freeway speeds.  The cost of electricity compared to gasoline is significantly less, since we charge overnight on a cheaper rate plan.

We have taken family road trips to places like Disneyland and as far away as San Diego, 500 miles away.  We can make it about 2 hours between stopping to charge, and the average charge is about 20 minutes. (We could travel farther between charges, but the charging speed on these cars is fastest if you don't charge beyond 80% battery)  When we drove to San Diego, we had to stop and charge 3 times.  That's about how many times my family would stop when we were driving an ICE car on the same route, since people need to use the bathroom, have something to eat, etc.

The biggest change to long distance travel habits for our family is that when we travel I now look for a hotel that offers EV charging -or- is located near a Supercharger.

How dare you bring rational discussion based on personal experience to this series of rants

[HighwayStar]

This thread was pretty amusing.  I see a wide variety of opinions, and I thought I would add my first-hand experience:

We have had a Model Y since September 2020.  At the time, the price was comparable to the Toyota Highlander we were replacing.  I have a wife and two teenagers, and we do a lot of traveling thanks to both kids' sports.  It's not uncommon to have to drive a couple hundred miles round-trip for a Saturday soccer match, or to overnight out in the Central Valley for a baseball tournament.  Otherwise, like most people, the majority of our travel is around-town.  We live in a single family house with a garage, and I had a 240V charger wired up into our garage.

Switching to an EV has been a game-changer for us.  The car charges every night, so we start out every day with a "full tank".  We have taken 200+ mile Saturday round-trips without stopping to charge, driving at normal freeway speeds.  The cost of electricity compared to gasoline is significantly less, since we charge overnight on a cheaper rate plan.

We have taken family road trips to places like Disneyland and as far away as San Diego, 500 miles away.  We can make it about 2 hours between stopping to charge, and the average charge is about 20 minutes. (We could travel farther between charges, but the charging speed on these cars is fastest if you don't charge beyond 80% battery)  When we drove to San Diego, we had to stop and charge 3 times.  That's about how many times my family would stop when we were driving an ICE car on the same route, since people need to use the bathroom, have something to eat, etc.

The biggest change to long distance travel habits for our family is that when we travel I now look for a hotel that offers EV charging -or- is located near a Supercharger.

Nothing you wrote made it sound like a "game changer", to start with a full tank you just stop by the fuel station that is inevitably located next to every hotel in the country.
You seem to stop a great deal on your trips, which is perhaps why the EV does not irritate you, but that pace of travel is impractical for long trips.

[hotdogPi]

You seem to stop a great deal on your trips, which is perhaps why the EV does not irritate you, but that pace of travel is impractical for long trips.

When we drove to San Diego, we had to stop and charge 3 times.  That's about how many times my family would stop when we were driving an ICE car on the same route, since people need to use the bathroom, have something to eat, etc.

Did you even read?

[triplemultiplex]

So we can add "iron butthole" to the features one needs to road trip with HighwayStar.


To review, stopping is needlessly inconvenient, but it is convenient to start every day by going to a gas station.

[Scott5114]

Maybe he had a toilet installed in his Carpenter school bus so he won't ever have to stop.

[HighwayStar]

You seem to stop a great deal on your trips, which is perhaps why the EV does not irritate you, but that pace of travel is impractical for long trips.

When we drove to San Diego, we had to stop and charge 3 times.  That's about how many times my family would stop when we were driving an ICE car on the same route, since people need to use the bathroom, have something to eat, etc.

Did you even read?

Yes I read that. They stopped 3 times going to SD, which was 500 miles. So they stopped every 166 miles, which is a lot of stopping.

[Max Rockatansky]

Maybe he had a toilet installed in his Carpenter school bus so he won't ever have to stop.

#9 - What could've been for Cadillac:

[HighwayStar]

So we can add "iron butthole" to the features one needs to road trip with HighwayStar.


To review, stopping is needlessly inconvenient, but it is convenient to start every day by going to a gas station.

You could just as easily end every night at a gas station, which is what I do. I usually have the gas stops planned tightly enough that I have to get gas at wherever I am staying anyway.

[1995hoo]

.... We live in a single family house with a garage, and I had a 240V charger wired up into our garage. ....

If you don't mind my asking, what did that cost and what did the installation involve?