Are there any good reasons *not* to ban billboards?

[froggie]

An alternative to billboards are those signs on highways saying which services are available at the next exit, and then the distances to those establish,ents. More states could (and should) utilize them.

Doesn't nearly every state use these already? They're also not free - companies pay to get their logo on the sign. It's often one of the few transportation items that actually results in revenue and profit to a transportation department.

Vermont, for one, does not use logo signs.  They'll post generic service signs in advance of the exit but won't tell you which brand or how far.

So VT basically bans all outdoor advertising.

On controlled-access facilities, yes (which was the point of the OP's initial post).  But see Rothman's response to me...they don't ban ALL outdoor advertising.

[SEWIGuy]

I could go both sides on this -- especially in the case of I-15 in the Southwest.

Either side of Vegas on I-15 from San Bernadino to Salt Lake there are hundreds of miles of nothingness.  I don't mind seeing a little distraction in advertising billboards, but there are some areas where the large signs are planted every ¼ mile, if not closer, on both sides of I-15.

I prefer signs that inform travelers of upcoming services, especially those that will list how many miles they are located from that point.

I also am fine with fuel Billboards that list what the going rate for fuel is at a particular exit. 

And I also like, especially when Vegas‐bound, some of the billboard "deals" you can get on food, or what shows are playing in town, as it helps people plan ahead with additional ideas.

Yes, the blue ground-mounted service signs at exits were designed in part to reduce some of the billboard clutter, but they are limited in info and only give a ½ -2 mile advance notice.

On the other hand, ambulance chaser billboards, political-leaning signage, or even billboards which promote questionable, semi-legal establishments (gentleman's clubs, fireworks, pot shops,...)  should be held on a tight leash, if even allowed to advertise on large-scale billboards.

So billboards in general are OK unless the subject matter bothers you...even if it's advertising a legal business?

[kernals12]

Irvine, California bans virtually all outdoor advertising. It looks very nice.

[MikeTheActuary]

If it weren't for Alexander Shunnarah's billboards, how would you know that you're in Alabama?

(See, e.g.,  https://i.redd.it/rcfkebvvyyd91.jpg)

[1995hoo]

I could go both sides on this -- especially in the case of I-15 in the Southwest.

Either side of Vegas on I-15 from San Bernadino to Salt Lake there are hundreds of miles of nothingness.  I don't mind seeing a little distraction in advertising billboards, but there are some areas where the large signs are planted every ¼ mile, if not closer, on both sides of I-15.

I prefer signs that inform travelers of upcoming services, especially those that will list how many miles they are located from that point.

I also am fine with fuel Billboards that list what the going rate for fuel is at a particular exit. 

And I also like, especially when Vegas‐bound, some of the billboard "deals" you can get on food, or what shows are playing in town, as it helps people plan ahead with additional ideas.

Yes, the blue ground-mounted service signs at exits were designed in part to reduce some of the billboard clutter, but they are limited in info and only give a ½ -2 mile advance notice.

On the other hand, ambulance chaser billboards, political-leaning signage, or even billboards which promote questionable, semi-legal establishments (gentleman's clubs, fireworks, pot shops,...)  should be held on a tight leash, if even allowed to advertise on large-scale billboards.

Once you get into that sort of content-based regulation, you open up a big can of worms as to First Amendment issues. A state can engage in content-neutral regulation, but once you start basing what you allow or don't allow either exclusively or primarily based on what is being advertised, you run into problems.

[MikeTheActuary]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

[NWI_Irish96]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

Indiana has a state law that bars counties, municipalities or HOAs from prohibiting political signs on private property between 60 days before and 30 days after an election.

[Georgia Guardrail]

Instead of Billboards, why not sell advertising on retaining walls and guardrails to help raise private funds for a road project?  Out of the box and wacky idea and probably way too distracting for drivers.  But it may work in some instances where cities have budget shortfalls for essential projects. 

[oscar]

Instead of Billboards, why not sell advertising on retaining walls and guardrails to help raise private funds for a road project?  Out of the box and wacky idea and probably way too distracting for drivers. 

Probably not distracting enough. Who's gonna read a guardrail, or retaining wall? Probably not enough to pay for the cost of such "advertising".

[SEWIGuy]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

[Rothman]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs aren't necessary at all.

[SEWIGuy]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs aren't necessary at all.

Well some people seem to think so since they willingly agree to their terms. The problem isn't that HOAs exist, it is how they are run that cause the nightmare stories. But like everything, its the outliers that cause the headlines.

[jeffandnicole]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs generally aren't about zoning. They're more about keeping a property clean and tidy, not having a broken down truck on your front lawn (good) but then delves into stupid stuff (color of house, car must be parked in garage at night, etc).

[Rothman]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs aren't necessary at all.

Well some people seem to think so since they willingly agree to their terms. The problem isn't that HOAs exist, it is how they are run that cause the nightmare stories. But like everything, its the outliers that cause the headlines.

Not sure how willingly the acceptance of an HOA is.  It's pretty much, "I'll try to put up with it because I want to live in this school district," rather than, "I love HOAs since they look out for my own interest!"

You can't separate HOAs' existence from how they are run.  Their intended purpose invites the nightmarish management.

Yes, the extreme cases are indeed outliers, but I have only met one or two people that appreciate their HOA (with the admission that they're not perfect) and lots of people that outright don't.  They may not be living in a complete nightmare, but they are living in an environment of constant discomfort.

[vdeane]

It's worth noting that many HOAs also maintain the infrastructure of the neighborhood (road, water/sewer, etc.) rather than the municipality, which probably keeps property taxes down in areas where HOAs are common, especially since suburban infrastructure is very expensive relative to the number of people it services.

[SEWIGuy]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs aren't necessary at all.

Well some people seem to think so since they willingly agree to their terms. The problem isn't that HOAs exist, it is how they are run that cause the nightmare stories. But like everything, its the outliers that cause the headlines.

Not sure how willingly the acceptance of an HOA is.  It's pretty much, "I'll try to put up with it because I want to live in this school district," rather than, "I love HOAs since they look out for my own interest!"

I never said people "love HOAs," although some apparently do. (See below.)  I said that people view them as necessary since they willingly enter the agreement to live in one.

You can't separate HOAs' existence from how they are run.  Their intended purpose invites the nightmarish management.

What?  Of course you can. Plenty of HOAs are operated just fine.

Yes, the extreme cases are indeed outliers, but I have only met one or two people that appreciate their HOA (with the admission that they're not perfect) and lots of people that outright don't.  They may not be living in a complete nightmare, but they are living in an environment of constant discomfort.

Instead of anecdotal experiences, there are actually surveys about them.

https://www.insurancequotes.com/home/honest-about-hoas

Pretty much a majority either "loves them" or has a pretty neutral view about them.

[skluth]

Instead of Billboards, why not sell advertising on retaining walls and guardrails to help raise private funds for a road project?  Out of the box and wacky idea and probably way too distracting for drivers. 

Probably not distracting enough. Who's gonna read a guardrail, or retaining wall? Probably not enough to pay for the cost of such "advertising".

Not to mention freeway retaining walls are often covered in graffiti in many cities. I think any advertising on a retaining wall is practically asking to be overprinted with graffiti.

[Rothman]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs aren't necessary at all.

Well some people seem to think so since they willingly agree to their terms. The problem isn't that HOAs exist, it is how they are run that cause the nightmare stories. But like everything, its the outliers that cause the headlines.

Not sure how willingly the acceptance of an HOA is.  It's pretty much, "I'll try to put up with it because I want to live in this school district," rather than, "I love HOAs since they look out for my own interest!"

I never said people "love HOAs," although some apparently do. (See below.)  I said that people view them as necessary since they willingly enter the agreement to live in one.

You can't separate HOAs' existence from how they are run.  Their intended purpose invites the nightmarish management.

What?  Of course you can. Plenty of HOAs are operated just fine.

Yes, the extreme cases are indeed outliers, but I have only met one or two people that appreciate their HOA (with the admission that they're not perfect) and lots of people that outright don't.  They may not be living in a complete nightmare, but they are living in an environment of constant discomfort.

Instead of anecdotal experiences, there are actually surveys about them.

https://www.insurancequotes.com/home/honest-about-hoas

Pretty much a majority either "loves them" or has a pretty neutral view about them.

Please read the sources you provide links to, for that source does not support the statement you made...or you do not understand how the survey results were presented.  They show generational divides, but not how large each generation was represented in the sample.  Therefore, your overall statement lumping apples and oranges together is inappropriate and inaccurate.

From the poll results, a slim majority does love them (57%) while 33% hate them and the rest 10% are neutral, so it's pretty far away from just "love" and "neutral" as you described.

I am surprised there aren't more unbiased polls out there on this issue.  It's too bad this one seems to be the only one that's easily Google-able...and only from "Insurance Quotes.com."

[SEWIGuy]

Instead of anecdotal experiences, there are actually surveys about them.

https://www.insurancequotes.com/home/honest-about-hoas

Pretty much a majority either "loves them" or has a pretty neutral view about them.

Please read the sources you provide links to, for that source does not support the statement you made...or you do not understand how the survey results were presented.  They show generational divides, but not how large each generation was represented in the sample.  Therefore, your overall statement lumping apples and oranges together is inappropriate and inaccurate.

From the poll results, a slim majority does love them (57%) while 33% hate them and the rest 10% are neutral, so it's pretty far away from just "love" and "neutral" as you described.

LOL, I said "Pretty much a majority either "loves them" or has a pretty neutral view about them."  Which is EXACTLY what your bolded statement suggests.

So perhaps you shouldn't be getting on my case about "inappropriate and inaccurate" statements when you apparently don't understand what "majority" means.

[jeffandnicole]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs aren't necessary at all.

Well some people seem to think so since they willingly agree to their terms. The problem isn't that HOAs exist, it is how they are run that cause the nightmare stories. But like everything, its the outliers that cause the headlines.

Not sure how willingly the acceptance of an HOA is.  It's pretty much, "I'll try to put up with it because I want to live in this school district," rather than, "I love HOAs since they look out for my own interest!"

I never said people "love HOAs," although some apparently do. (See below.)  I said that people view them as necessary since they willingly enter the agreement to live in one.

You can't separate HOAs' existence from how they are run.  Their intended purpose invites the nightmarish management.

What?  Of course you can. Plenty of HOAs are operated just fine.

Yes, the extreme cases are indeed outliers, but I have only met one or two people that appreciate their HOA (with the admission that they're not perfect) and lots of people that outright don't.  They may not be living in a complete nightmare, but they are living in an environment of constant discomfort.

Instead of anecdotal experiences, there are actually surveys about them.

https://www.insurancequotes.com/home/honest-about-hoas

Pretty much a majority either "loves them" or has a pretty neutral view about them.

Please read the sources you provide links to, for that source does not support the statement you made...or you do not understand how the survey results were presented.  They show generational divides, but not how large each generation was represented in the sample.  Therefore, your overall statement lumping apples and oranges together is inappropriate and inaccurate.

From the poll results, a slim majority does love them (57%) while 33% hate them and the rest 10% are neutral, so it's pretty far away from just "love" and "neutral" as you described.

I am surprised there aren't more unbiased polls out there on this issue.  It's too bad this one seems to be the only one that's easily Google-able...and only from "Insurance Quotes.com."

Typing the "Source" (survey of 649 homeowners) and hoa reveals this info...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/independentamericancommunities.com/2018/11/09/honest-survey-young-homeowners-hate-hoas/amp/

[jeffandnicole]

For more gold, Community Associations Institute reports that their surveys show 85% like HOAs. Surprised that the number wasn't higher. It's like doing a AARoads forum survey asking if people like roads. Most will. And then we publish it saying a national poll shows nearly everyone loves roads.

[Scott5114]

[J N Winkler]

The stylized fact, AIUI, is that HOAs became the default around 1980 because they were the easiest mechanism by which developers could offload their Clean Water Act stormwater management and water-quality obligations onto homeowners.  This suggests that entering a HOA is the price of buying into a post-1980 subdivision, and so not a free choice in any real sense.

It doesn't surprise me that many homeowners love HOAs.  They can be effective in curbing some types of bad-neighbor problems and in keeping out property speculators who want to turn whole neighborhoods into rentals or Airbnb homes.  But the potential is there for them to devolve into petty tyrannies, especially in states that place few limits on what they can do as a matter of contract law.

[SEWIGuy]

The First Amendment and private property rights are the two best reasons I can think of.

If you put a giant inflatable phallus in your front yard, it would not be long before a nice police officer showed up with a cease-and-desist order

It's not inflatable, but https://bit.ly/3SdyZbI

Link goes to a story on the F*ck HOA subreddit -- using bitly due to the name of the subreddit -- of one family's dispute with their HOA over landscaping boulders.  Religious freedom is invoked....

HOAs are at least a contract that someone willingly enters into. And they wouldn't be as necessary if municipalities just had better zoning laws.

HOAs aren't necessary at all.

Well some people seem to think so since they willingly agree to their terms. The problem isn't that HOAs exist, it is how they are run that cause the nightmare stories. But like everything, its the outliers that cause the headlines.

Not sure how willingly the acceptance of an HOA is.  It's pretty much, "I'll try to put up with it because I want to live in this school district," rather than, "I love HOAs since they look out for my own interest!"

I never said people "love HOAs," although some apparently do. (See below.)  I said that people view them as necessary since they willingly enter the agreement to live in one.

You can't separate HOAs' existence from how they are run.  Their intended purpose invites the nightmarish management.

What?  Of course you can. Plenty of HOAs are operated just fine.

Yes, the extreme cases are indeed outliers, but I have only met one or two people that appreciate their HOA (with the admission that they're not perfect) and lots of people that outright don't.  They may not be living in a complete nightmare, but they are living in an environment of constant discomfort.

Instead of anecdotal experiences, there are actually surveys about them.

https://www.insurancequotes.com/home/honest-about-hoas

Pretty much a majority either "loves them" or has a pretty neutral view about them.

Please read the sources you provide links to, for that source does not support the statement you made...or you do not understand how the survey results were presented.  They show generational divides, but not how large each generation was represented in the sample.  Therefore, your overall statement lumping apples and oranges together is inappropriate and inaccurate.

From the poll results, a slim majority does love them (57%) while 33% hate them and the rest 10% are neutral, so it's pretty far away from just "love" and "neutral" as you described.

I am surprised there aren't more unbiased polls out there on this issue.  It's too bad this one seems to be the only one that's easily Google-able...and only from "Insurance Quotes.com."

Typing the "Source" (survey of 649 homeowners) and hoa reveals this info...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/independentamericancommunities.com/2018/11/09/honest-survey-young-homeowners-hate-hoas/amp/

Yeah you're right. Your anecdotal experiences are much more accurate. 🙄🙄🙄

[jeffandnicole]

Typing the "Source" (survey of 649 homeowners) and hoa reveals this info...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/independentamericancommunities.com/2018/11/09/honest-survey-young-homeowners-hate-hoas/amp/

Yeah you're right. Your anecdotal experiences are much more accurate. 🙄🙄🙄

They weren't my experiences.  Besides...nearly everyone who's actually lived in an HOA will only have an anecdotal experience or two, unless they are moving around often.