Telephone numbers

[GaryV]

US system should have following rules:

You missed a few.

[Poiponen13]

US system should have following rules:

You missed a few.

I missed Alaska and Hawaii. Alaska could be 8 and Hawaii 9.

[jeffandnicole]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

If that was implemented in 1947 (when the plan first took effect), the western states would have complained about their numbers taking longer to dial.

And NJ and DE would've complained they had to use smoke signals and carrier pigeons since they're not on the list.

[US 89]

You know, that isn't too different from the ZIP code system we have now. The difference is that it takes the same time to write or type a 1 or 9.

[Poiponen13]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

If that was implemented in 1947 (when the plan first took effect), the western states would have complained about their numbers taking longer to dial.

And NJ and DE would've complained they had to use smoke signals and carrier pigeons since they're not on the list.

NJ, DE would be 3.

[zachary_amaryllis]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

If that was implemented in 1947 (when the plan first took effect), the western states would have complained about their numbers taking longer to dial.

Guy who lives in 970, with a nearly-equally high-numbered prefix concurs. This would have been a bitch with rotary phones, especially since we're now 10-digit dialing here.

[Poiponen13]

What about all-letter telephone numbers?

So... you want telephones to have 36 dialing keys?  26 letters plus 10 numerals?  That sounds like an absolutely terrible idea.

US and Canadian telephone numbering system should have clusters in area codes. Such as 2 in east, 9 in west. And area codes should be both 3 and 4-digit.

As has already been explained, the numbers were assigned so that, when dialing a rotary telephone, major population centers required the lowest number of clicks.  That may seem like ancient history to you, but my grandfather had a rotary telephone until the day he moved into a nursing home about twenty years ago.

Perhaps we should start using overly long numbers, like 01189998819991197253.

International dialing isn't all that much better.  My best friend's phone number is saved in my contacts list as 01152#421081619 (one digit redacted for obvious reasons).

We are a few decades away, but we will at some point run out of viable phone number combinations in North America. Adding a digit will solve this.

The North American Numbering Plan contemplates this.

You may have noticed that there are no area codes with "9" in the second position.   This is to support a future expansion of the dialing plan to 11 or 12 digits.

The phone number +1 213 555 1212 could become +1 2913 555 1212 or +1 2913 n555 1212 (where n is a numeral from 2-9) when expansion is implemented.

I'm not sure that the original North
[size=78%]American Numbering Plan ever envisioned a fully programmable telephone environment.  My aunt was the developer of the computer network architecture (and changes) that were a prerequisite for the Baby Bell breakup (which became the official Local Area Transport Area map).  Back then, there were still too many hard-wired PBX and PABX switching systems to conceive a change to the numbering plan.[/size]

He didn't claim that the original NANP contemplated it.  He said that the NANP contemplates it.  That is to say, when the list of viable area codes was expanded to include digits other than 0 and 1 in the middle position, they left out the number 9 with such a reason specifically in mind.

Phone numbers could have check digit. Like +1 213 555 1212 would become +1 213 555 12128.
The check digit would be assigned in following way:
1. Numbers are multiplied with 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 beginning from left.
2. Results are added together.
3. The check digit is a number which is to be added to number to have it divisible by 10.
License plates could also have check digits.

[Scott5114]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

If that was implemented in 1947 (when the plan first took effect), the western states would have complained about their numbers taking longer to dial.

And NJ and DE would've complained they had to use smoke signals and carrier pigeons since they're not on the list.

NJ, DE would be 3.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, because there's no way to get them on the phone.

[kkt]

When I lived in Virginia, my address was Rt 1, Box 564C (don't worry, it's since gotten a proper address). I had several pieces of mail simply addressed as [name] Rt 1, Appomattox, and they got to me.

My mom once received a thank-you letter addressed to "Nurse Sue / Atwood, KS".  And it got to her just fine.

I think the Dead Letter Office takes it personally that they can deliver every piece possible, no matter how scanty the address.

[hobsini2]

Oh Poiponen.  Have you looked at a census map? Specifically how much pop change nationally there has been since 1947? In 1940, the national pop was 132 Million.  In just 20 years, that jumped to 179 million in 1960.  We hit more than double the 1940 pop in 2000 with 281 million. The last census now has the US at 331 million. Nearly tripled. In the last 50 years, Florida, Nevada, Arizona and Utah have the highest growth rates. And while the Rust Belt states have not grown as much, they also have increased.

Here's a fun fact for you. There are more people who live in Will County IL (650k), my home county, than there are people in the whole states of Wyoming and Vermont. DuPage County IL (930k) has more than Alaska, North Dakota and South Dakota.

The point is area codes are an "on demand" deal. Nobody in 1950 would have predicted cell phones and a population boom in the West and South.

Now if you want to "redo" the system, be my guest with that fool's errand. Just keep the historical context.

[Poiponen13]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

If that was implemented in 1947 (when the plan first took effect), the western states would have complained about their numbers taking longer to dial.

And NJ and DE would've complained they had to use smoke signals and carrier pigeons since they're not on the list.

NJ, DE would be 3.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, because there's no way to get them on the phone.

NV=9

[NWI_Irish96]

The point is area codes are an "on demand" deal. Nobody in 1950 would have predicted cell phones and a population boom in the West and South.

Area codes, ZIP Codes, and interstate numbering are all things that made sense when they were implemented but less so after 50+ years of explosive but uneven growth.

[GaryV]

The point is area codes are an "on demand" deal. Nobody in 1950 would have predicted cell phones and a population boom in the West and South.

Area codes, ZIP Codes, and interstate numbering are all things that made sense when they were implemented but less so after 50+ years of explosive but uneven growth.

And yet, they have adapted remarkably well. No massively complex and confusing redo is necessary.

[Flint1979]

They used to. Check out the phone number on this sign from the 1940s. This is my buddy's restaurant located at 1029 Gratiot in Saginaw. This sign is from the original location.

[Poiponen13]

They used to. Check out the phone number on this sign from the 1940s. This is my buddy's restaurant located at 1029 Gratiot in Saginaw. This sign is from the original location.

I don't see letters.

[CtrlAltDel]

They used to. Check out the phone number on this sign from the 1940s. This is my buddy's restaurant located at 1029 Gratiot in Saginaw. This sign is from the original location.

I don't see letters.

The spacing is imperfect, but the phone number is PL5-9505.

[Flint1979]

Yep it's PL5-9505 which is 755-9505 which makes sense as 755 is a Saginaw exchange. The address is 1003 S. Weadock, it's a vacant lot today.

[Scott5114]

Notice how PL5-9505 is just 755-9505 with extra steps, which explains why letters aren't used in phone numbers anymore.

A classic example from American pop culture is (212) PE6-5000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGOUldTrk-A

[hbelkins]

^^^
I think I mentioned that example upthread, early on.

[Scott5114]

Maybe you did, but I don't feel like going through 6 pages of Poiponen-thread to check.

[Dirt Roads]

Notice how PL5-9505 is just 755-9505 with extra steps, which explains why letters aren't used in phone numbers anymore.

That rings a bell.  Before we got our own phone exchange in the late-1970s, we had a 755 exchange for Nitro, West Virginia.  And our exchange was officially Pleasant-five (PL-5).  The newer Scott Depot exchange was simply 757.  In my folks latter years, they would get hundreds of phone calls per day from folks trying to call a local arts-and-crafts store that branched out from Nitro into Teays Valley, but kept its Nitro phone number.  At first, the calls seemed as if most folks accidentally mis-dialed 757 instead of 755.  But later, almost everybody would argue with my mom that it had to have a Scott Depot exchange and that the phone book was a misprint.  A close relative still has this phone number and I wonder if they still get those wrong numbers?

[kphoger]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

(Extra carriage returns retained because WHY???)

Why are California and the Caribbean in the same region?

[MultiMillionMiler]

What's the benefit of including letters? Wouldn't that make phone numbers even harder to remember than just numbers? 26 possibilities for letters vs 10 numbers.

[kalvado]

US system should have following rules:
2##-###-#### – NY, CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME; QC, NB, PE, NS, NL
3##-###-#### – PA, MD, DC, VA, WV, NC, SC, GA, FL
4##-###-#### – OH, MI, IN, KY, TN, MS, AL; ON
5##-###-#### – IL, WI, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA
6##-###-#### – ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX; SK, MB
7##-###-#### – MT, ID, WY, CO, UT, NM, AZ; AB
8##-###-#### – OR, WA; BC, YT, NT, NU
9##-###-#### – CA; Caribbean

(Extra carriage returns retained because WHY???)

Why are California and the Caribbean in the same region?

Because planet earth is a sphere, maybe?

[MikeTheActuary]

The point is area codes are an "on demand" deal. Nobody in 1950 would have predicted cell phones and a population boom in the West and South.

Area codes, ZIP Codes, and interstate numbering are all things that made sense when they were implemented but less so after 50+ years of explosive but uneven growth.

Area codes doubly so, given number portability.  (See, e.g., https://xkcd.com/1129/ )

Another example of the phenomenon are sequential callsigns in the US for amateur radio.  The numeral in US amateur callsigns, at least in CONUS, is based on the FCC district of the ham's mailing address, with the FCC districts having been set in their current form when amateur radio licensing was restarted after WW2.

Demographic changes being what they are, there are now more hams in the fourth district than in the first three districts combined, and it shows in the sequential callsigns being issued.