Which state has the BEST overall highway/freeway connectivity?

Started by webny99, March 07, 2023, 08:15:03 PM

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JayhawkCO

Quote from: US 89 on March 11, 2023, 12:46:50 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 09, 2023, 08:54:50 AM
Not that there's a lot of population in southern Oregon, but parts of it are probably among the furthest from a freeway of anywhere in the entire country.

I'm curious exactly where that point is. The US freeway pole of inaccessibility, if you will. Eyeballing it, it's probably somewhere in southern Oregon in that I-5/80/84 triangle, but central Nevada between 80 and 15, the Four Corners area, north-central Montana, and southwestern Kansas could also be contenders. Someone should do that math.

I thought the conventional answer was Copper Harbor, MI for farthest away from an interstate.


Flint1979

Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 11, 2023, 01:18:31 AM
Quote from: US 89 on March 11, 2023, 12:46:50 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 09, 2023, 08:54:50 AM
Not that there's a lot of population in southern Oregon, but parts of it are probably among the furthest from a freeway of anywhere in the entire country.

I'm curious exactly where that point is. The US freeway pole of inaccessibility, if you will. Eyeballing it, it's probably somewhere in southern Oregon in that I-5/80/84 triangle, but central Nevada between 80 and 15, the Four Corners area, north-central Montana, and southwestern Kansas could also be contenders. Someone should do that math.

I thought the conventional answer was Copper Harbor, MI for farthest away from an interstate.
It is. I knew that bit of information from when I was in Copper Harbor. It's about 230 miles from I-39 in Wassau, Wisconsin.

mgk920

Quote from: US 89 on March 11, 2023, 12:46:50 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 09, 2023, 08:54:50 AM
Not that there's a lot of population in southern Oregon, but parts of it are probably among the furthest from a freeway of anywhere in the entire country.

I'm curious exactly where that point is. The US freeway pole of inaccessibility, if you will. Eyeballing it, it's probably somewhere in southern Oregon in that I-5/80/84 triangle, but central Nevada between 80 and 15, the Four Corners area, north-central Montana, and southwestern Kansas could also be contenders. Someone should do that math.

Not southern Oregon, but I hear that Bend is doing pretty well, and it doesn't enjoy the best in road connectivity.

Mike

webny99

Quote from: US 89 on March 11, 2023, 12:46:50 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 09, 2023, 08:54:50 AM
Not that there's a lot of population in southern Oregon, but parts of it are probably among the furthest from a freeway of anywhere in the entire country.

I'm curious exactly where that point is. The US freeway pole of inaccessibility, if you will. Eyeballing it, it's probably somewhere in southern Oregon in that I-5/80/84 triangle, but central Nevada between 80 and 15, the Four Corners area, north-central Montana, and southwestern Kansas could also be contenders. Someone should do that math.

I played around with it a little bit. Riley, OR is well over 3 hours from a freeway in any direction, but I was focused on time, not mileage. To do it legitimately, I would go with road mileage since that could be significantly different than crow-flies mileage in such remote areas. I do think it's somewhere within that I-5/I-80/I-84 triangle, I'll come back to it if/when I have a bit more time.

Dirt Roads

Cities not connected in Kentucky:

  • Lexington #2
  • Nicholasville #11
  • Radcliff #17
  • Ashland #18
  • Mount Washington #22
  • Murray #23
  • Danville #25
  • Lawrenceburg #35
  • Campbellsville #36
  • Middlesboro #45
  • Harrodsburg #47
  • Maysville #48
Independence makes the cut, but the fact that Madison Pike (KY-17) connects it back north to I-275 allows it to qualify.  This does reduce my view on its connectivity, as it is important to provide connections from large towns and county seats to their state capitals.  Similarly, Somerset is connected via the Cumberland Parkway that takes you way back to the west messing up the connectivity to more important regional localities; say Corbin, London and Lexington.  I'd say this is much worse for Versailles.

I would count Radcliffe if you include two-lane partially limited access highways, in this case KY-313.  Similarly, you could say that Ashland is connected via US-52 through Ohio and West Virginia, which includes a short Super Two across the West Huntington Bridge. 

webny99

Lexington not being connected to I-64 and/or I-75 is very odd for such a sizeable metro area.

ilpt4u

Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2023, 01:05:28 PM
Lexington not being connected to I-64 and/or I-75 is very odd for such a sizeable metro area.
Quite a few well funded and connected Horse farms around Lexington. Same reason the Bluegrass stops short of Lexington

Rothman

Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2023, 01:05:28 PM
Lexington not being connected to I-64 and/or I-75 is very odd for such a sizeable metro area.
I am not sure how it could be considered disconnected from those Interstates.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Flint1979

Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2023, 01:05:28 PM
Lexington not being connected to I-64 and/or I-75 is very odd for such a sizeable metro area.
How do you figure they aren't connected to Lexington?

vdeane

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 10, 2023, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2023, 01:25:22 PM
From the I-70/I-695 interchange to where the I-70/I-95 interchange would have been is all of two miles longer via I-695 and I-95 than it would have been if I-70 was built directly.  For DC, I-95 may go around, but the Baltimore-Washington Parkway/MD 295/DC 295 goes in closer and has an easy connection via I-695.  It's not as big a deal as HighwayStar is making it out to be (and many of it recognize it as a continuation of his longtime insistence that "I-70 doesn't go to Baltimore" that has become a meme, so there's less inclination to give him the benefit of the doubt than there would be if it was someone else).

Its not simply about millage, in fact, that is a relatively minor point. Its more about capacity. Not having both routes adds significant traffic to the one that does remain.
Baltimore-Washington Parkway is swell, but it would be better if there was an actual I-95 to relieve some of the traffic on it.
That's true with the Parkway/DC 295, especially in the era of GPS routing thru traffic there because it's shorter than staying on I-95, but Maryland's traffic counts don't bear that out with respect to I-70.  From I-70 eastbound, more traffic heads north on I-695 than south.

Quote from: webny99 on March 10, 2023, 10:31:47 PM
Poughkeepsie (pop. 32k) is an interesting one, as it's within NYC's sphere of influence but too distinct to just lump in with NYC. It is not connected to the statewide freeway network, and could definitely use an upgraded connection to I-87 in particular. It does have a four-lane connection to I-84 via US 9 which is mostly a divided highway, but it's not even close to a full freeway with many traffic signals as it passes right through Fishkill and Wappingers Falls.
I'd say that US 9 to I-84 is even slower than NY 299 to I-87.  Despite being a multi-lane divided highway, there's too much traffic, too many lights, and too many strip malls for traffic to move well.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2023, 01:05:28 PM
Lexington not being connected to I-64 and/or I-75 is very odd for such a sizeable metro area.

Quote from: Flint1979 on March 11, 2023, 01:31:13 PM
How do you figure they aren't connected to Lexington?

There's no freeway or partially limited access highway from I-75/I-64 to New Circle Road (KY-4). which itself doesn't completely fit those categories in the section closest to the Interstate.  That's a totally different situation than Baltimore or Washington, where you have to go part-way around their respective beltways to reach the Central Business District.

wriddle082

Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 11, 2023, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2023, 01:05:28 PM
Lexington not being connected to I-64 and/or I-75 is very odd for such a sizeable metro area.

Quote from: Flint1979 on March 11, 2023, 01:31:13 PM
How do you figure they aren't connected to Lexington?

There's no freeway or partially limited access highway from I-75/I-64 to New Circle Road (KY-4). which itself doesn't completely fit those categories in the section closest to the Interstate.  That's a totally different situation than Baltimore or Washington, where you have to go part-way around their respective beltways to reach the Central Business District.

Technically Lexington is connected.  Since I believe 1974, Lexington and Fayette County have had a merged metropolitan government.  If you‘re looking at a map and notice something that looks like city limits for Lexington within Fayette County, you’re actually looking at the boundary between the Urban Services District and the Rural Services District.  The population of both Lexington and Fayette County have always been exactly the same since the two governments merged.

(Nashville also has a similar type boundary with Davidson County, but instead of Rural Services District they call it General Services District.  But Davidson County’s population is always higher than that of Nashville since it includes the populations of Belle Meade, Berry Hill, the Davidson County portion of Goodlettsville, Forest Hills, Oak Hill, and the very small Davidson County sliver of Ridgetop.)

So anyway, I-64 and I-75 very much enter Lexington (but don’t touch KY 4 or get anywhere near the CBD), and KTC ought to update all of the Fayette County signs to make them say Metropolitan Lexington/Fayette County.  They replaced all of the Jefferson County signage to “Welcome To Louisville Metro”.

Flint1979

Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 11, 2023, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 11, 2023, 01:05:28 PM
Lexington not being connected to I-64 and/or I-75 is very odd for such a sizeable metro area.

Quote from: Flint1979 on March 11, 2023, 01:31:13 PM
How do you figure they aren't connected to Lexington?

There's no freeway or partially limited access highway from I-75/I-64 to New Circle Road (KY-4). which itself doesn't completely fit those categories in the section closest to the Interstate.  That's a totally different situation than Baltimore or Washington, where you have to go part-way around their respective beltways to reach the Central Business District.
They both enter Lexington so they are connected to Lexington. I've spent the night in Lexington quite a few times I know the area fairly well it's built up to I-75 I know that much.

Rothman

Yeah, I have family in Lexington/Winchester and the idea that the Interstates don't connect to Lexington is pretty asinine, despite someone looking at Google Maps and concluding the feeder routes from the Interstate somehow "don't count."
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

MultiMillionMiler

I would agree that Maryland has one of the best completed grid systems near the cities, but with I-70 not going to and through Baltimore, it cannot be considered to have good connectivity. That state shouldn't be on this list due to that.

Dirt Roads

Ohio is quite impressive.  Here's the three cities that are not connected to freeways and highways:

  • Cleveland Heights #25
  • Delaware #30
  • Kent #49
Lorain (#10) might ought to be on this list.  I-90 is too far away from the old main part of town, but the city limits extend out to OH-2. 

Middletown throws us a different curveball.  Neither I-75 nor OH-63 are close enough to the so-called "downtown", and neither OH-4 nor OH-122 qualify as partially limited access highways.  But throwing in OH-73 and University Boulevard (and perhaps others), the town is so well "interconnected" that I can't make a strong enough case to put it on the list.

I was wondering when I would find something "not connected" inside of an "outer loop freeway".  Cleveland Heights is too far from I-90 and also from I-271.  The new routing of OH-10 (Opportunity Corridor Road) into the east side of Cleveland almost gets us there, but as long as you have to slog through CLE you can't count it.

On the other hand, Warren stays just far enough away from I-80, I-76, I-680 and OH-11 freeways, but OH-82 (Warren Outer Belt) makes a pretty tough case against disqualification.

What do I do with Lancaster?  US-33 has been upgrade all the around the town, but this bypass is several miles out of town.  If you are trying to get from Lancaster to Columbus, then I would say it is connected.  Vice versa (trying to get into Lancaster from somewhere else), well not so great.

Another one on the "reverse rule":  Marion is connected to I-75 by US-23 and OH-15, but that is a heck of way to get to Columbus.  But it is "connected".

Disqualified due to the "Lexington rule":  Kent isn't very far off of I-76, but it doesn't have a decent highway connection and it is partially surrounded on the southeast side by OH-261, which appears to be a "baby beltway" in the making. 

hbelkins

The inclusion of "highway" in this throws some of these statements off, in my opinion.

Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 11, 2023, 12:53:45 PM
Cities not connected in Kentucky:

  • Lexington #2
  • Nicholasville #11
  • Radcliff #17
  • Ashland #18
  • Mount Washington #22
  • Murray #23
  • Danville #25
  • Lawrenceburg #35
  • Campbellsville #36
  • Middlesboro #45
  • Harrodsburg #47
  • Maysville #48
Independence makes the cut, but the fact that Madison Pike (KY-17) connects it back north to I-275 allows it to qualify.  This does reduce my view on its connectivity, as it is important to provide connections from large towns and county seats to their state capitals.  Similarly, Somerset is connected via the Cumberland Parkway that takes you way back to the west messing up the connectivity to more important regional localities; say Corbin, London and Lexington.  I'd say this is much worse for Versailles.

I would count Radcliffe if you include two-lane partially limited access highways, in this case KY-313.  Similarly, you could say that Ashland is connected via US-52 through Ohio and West Virginia, which includes a short Super Two across the West Huntington Bridge.

Each of these, except Campbellsville and Maysville, is connected to the interstate and parkway system via a four-lane road.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

hotdogPi

For Massachusetts:

1. Boston

2. Worcester
1-2: I-90

3. Springfield
1-3: I-90
2-3: I-90

4. Cambridge
Close enough to Boston that it doesn't need to be considered separately.

5: Lowell
1-5: I-93 → I-495. While not perfectly direct, it's not too bad.
2-5: I-290 → I-495, pretty direct.
3-5: I-90 → I-495, pretty direct.

6. Brockton
1-6: I-93 → MA 24, not much of a loss.
2-6: No good connection from Worcester to Brockton.
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 50
MA 22, 35, 40, 53, 79, 107, 109, 126, 138, 141, 159
NH 27, 78, 111A(E); CA 90; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32, 320; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, WA 202; QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 36

Rothman

Quote from: 1 on March 11, 2023, 09:29:42 PM
For Massachusetts:

1. Boston

2. Worcester
1-2: I-90

3. Springfield
1-3: I-90
2-3: I-90

4. Cambridge
Close enough to Boston that it doesn't need to be considered separately.

5: Lowell
1-5: I-93 → I-495. While not perfectly direct, it's not too bad.
2-5: I-290 → I-495, pretty direct.
3-5: I-90 → I-495, pretty direct.

6. Brockton
1-6: I-93 → MA 24, not much of a loss.
2-6: No good connection from Worcester to Brockton.
Pittsfield...North Adams...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

HighwayStar

While Boston might be better off than some places in Mass, it really is lacking in proper freeway connections for the same reasons as Baltimore and DC, parts of the grid were not built and as a result too much traffic is forced onto what are supposed to be loops.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Rothman

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 12, 2023, 12:15:42 AM
While Boston might be better off than some places in Mass, it really is lacking in proper freeway connections for the same reasons as Baltimore and DC, parts of the grid were not built and as a result too much traffic is forced onto what are supposed to be loops.
Pfft.  I-90 and I-93 are enough.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

HighwayStar

Quote from: Rothman on March 12, 2023, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 12, 2023, 12:15:42 AM
While Boston might be better off than some places in Mass, it really is lacking in proper freeway connections for the same reasons as Baltimore and DC, parts of the grid were not built and as a result too much traffic is forced onto what are supposed to be loops.
Pfft.  I-90 and I-93 are enough.
If they were enough I-95 would not have been designed to go into Boston in the first place. And that was long ago with lower traffic. I-90 serves no purpose for traffic coming from the south on I-95 without a long awkward dog leg. I-93 is better placed, but without the capacity from I-95 going directly to Boston it is too congested.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 12, 2023, 01:16:43 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 12, 2023, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 12, 2023, 12:15:42 AM
While Boston might be better off than some places in Mass, it really is lacking in proper freeway connections for the same reasons as Baltimore and DC, parts of the grid were not built and as a result too much traffic is forced onto what are supposed to be loops.
Pfft.  I-90 and I-93 are enough.
If they were enough I-95 would not have been designed to go into Boston in the first place. And that was long ago with lower traffic. I-90 serves no purpose for traffic coming from the south on I-95 without a long awkward dog leg. I-93 is better placed, but without the capacity from I-95 going directly to Boston it is too congested.
I-95's corridor was instead used to build the hugely important southwest corridor rail line. The residents of those areas of Boston, which are among the poorer areas of the city, would have their neighborhoods torn apart even further by an interstate.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

Crown Victoria

Overall, Pennsylvania does a decent job connecting its more populous municipalities via freeway, not always directly but fairly easily using the system as a whole.

There are almost 90 municipalities (cities, boroughs, townships) in PA with a population over 20k. The vast majority of them either have a freeway within their limits or there's one no more than 10 miles away.

Notable gaps include:

-Numerous interchanges between the PA Turnpike system and other freeways. The I-95 interchange is incomplete but planned to be completed, and the Scranton Beltway project will fix the connections between I-476 and I-81.
-I-99 does not directly connect to I-80 or I-70/I-76. The I-80 interchange is due to be constructed starting later this year.
-Pittsburgh lacks a connection to I-80 via PA 28.
-Reading and Allentown are not connected via freeway (or even a proper four-lane at-grade route).
-US 422 between Reading and Pottstown.
-US 322 at Duncannon and between Potters Mills and Boalsburg (completion of this gap is in the study phase) hinders the connection between Harrisburg and State College.
-The incomplete Mon-Fayette Expressway and Southern Beltway projects.
-Harrisburg and Williamsport. The CSVT project will bypass the only section remaining with traffic signals. US 11/15 is (more or less) expressway-grade between Duncannon and Selinsgrove with no signals.
-There are numerous formerly planned freeways that were never built around Philly, Pittsburgh, and elsewhere. Some maybe should have been built, while others are best left on the drawing board, but that's a whole other discussion.


hotdogPi

My Massachusetts list above was supposed to be a starting point for comparison using the metric "largest pair of cities that isn't connected".
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 50
MA 22, 35, 40, 53, 79, 107, 109, 126, 138, 141, 159
NH 27, 78, 111A(E); CA 90; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32, 320; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, WA 202; QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 36



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