Extension of MA 2A?

[roadman]

Sorry phlbos, wasn't meant as an attack on you. Just a friendly observation of forums in general (I've been guilty myself). I have indeed noticed your knowledge of MA roads and I enjoy your historical perspective. Although I must say, BOSPHL would look better on paper 

Except that PHLBOS currently lives in Philadelphia, and used to live outside of Boston.  So BOSPHL would be far less accurate a moniker.

[mass_citizen]

Sorry phlbos, wasn't meant as an attack on you. Just a friendly observation of forums in general (I've been guilty myself). I have indeed noticed your knowledge of MA roads and I enjoy your historical perspective. Although I must say, BOSPHL would look better on paper 

Except that PHLBOS currently lives in Philadelphia, and used to live outside of Boston.  So BOSPHL would be far less accurate a moniker.

but boston should always come before philly. at least in sports!

[Alps]

Sorry phlbos, wasn't meant as an attack on you. Just a friendly observation of forums in general (I've been guilty myself). I have indeed noticed your knowledge of MA roads and I enjoy your historical perspective. Although I must say, BOSPHL would look better on paper 

Except that PHLBOS currently lives in Philadelphia, and used to live outside of Boston.  So BOSPHL would be far less accurate a moniker.

but boston should always come before philly. at least in sports!

Actually, they should both come at the end.

[NJRoadfan]

According to Wiki, the community of Wenham labelled on that map in the Town of Carver is now called East Carver. The pond and the road that runs along side of it (US-44 on the old map) are the only remnants of the former name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver,_Massachusetts

[PHLBOS]

Two communities with the same name - perhaps.  Two communities with the same name in the same state - highly unlikely.  Maybe in Alanland perhaps.  But in Massachusetts - no.

One thing I had to get used to when I moved to the Philly area was seeing two townships having the same name but located in different counties.  Examples: there's a Springfield, Delaware County as well as in Montgomery County.  There's a Tinicum Township in Delaware County (which is near me) as well as Bucks County.

IIRC, even in New Jersey, there's two Smithvilles but in different counties; one of them's just off the AC Expressway in Atlantic County, the other's located in Burlington County east of Mt. Holly (granted the latter is a village and part of Eastampton Twp).

Sorry phlbos, wasn't meant as an attack on you. Just a friendly observation of forums in general (I've been guilty myself). I have indeed noticed your knowledge of MA roads and I enjoy your historical perspective. Although I must say, BOSPHL would look better on paper 

Thank you very much for your kind words and support.

Except that PHLBOS currently lives in Philadelphia, and used to live outside of Boston.  So BOSPHL would be far less accurate a moniker.

Truth be told, my using the PHLBOS moniker dates back to when I first started posting in aviation-themed forums (Airliners.net & PHLAirline.com) over 8 years ago.  It's actually the combination of the two respective 3-letter airport codes (PHL for Philadlephia International Airport (current home base) and BOS for Logan International Airport (previous home base)).  Place a hyphen between the two and one has an airline route PHL-BOS.  When I first used the name I was doing a made a fair amount of day-trips between the two airports when AirTran flew the route and the r/t fares were about $100; so the route combo sans the hyphen made sense for a username at the time.

Thank you very much for posting that piece.  One picture's worth 1000 words.

[spooky]

Which one of you tipped off Fox 25?


http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/24833885/wrong-way-street-signs-send-hub-drivers-on-roads-to-nowhere

[bob7374]

Which one of you tipped off Fox 25?

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/24833885/wrong-way-street-signs-send-hub-drivers-on-roads-to-nowhere

Thanks for the post. The tipper wasn't me, though I did contact some folks the Globe about it, never heard back. Interesting how the blame has been shifted to the contractor, not the BTD folks who should have been overseeing the project and approving the plans in the first place. What does it say that some of these signs have been up since last spring and nobody at BTD noticed they were wrong? They should be embarrassed. Wonder what the mayor is saying in private?

At least we know who the 'unknown organization' is now. I guess I need to start following up to see if the mistakes are being corrected next time I'm in Boston.

[spooky]

The blame gets shifted to the consultant because shit flows downhill.

[mass_citizen]

LOL. it had to obviously be someone from here. normally I don't like a singular error or old sign to be removed but in this case with so many it had to be done. And I like how they said "no one at the local or state level knew about this until contacted by FOX" which is a complete lie if you look at the email from a few posts above between one of our users and MassDOT where they and the city deny all knowledge. to quote F troop "I KNOW NOTHING!!" 

hope they don't knee jerk and just take all the signs down. They should correct and not remove them. 

[spooky]

LOL. it had to obviously be someone from here. normally I don't like a singular error or old sign to be removed but in this case with so many it had to be done. And I like how they said "no one at the local or state level knew about this until contacted by FOX" which is a complete lie if you look at the email from a few posts above between one of our users and MassDOT where they and the city deny all knowledge. to quote F troop "I KNOW NOTHING!!" 

hope they don't knee jerk and just take all the signs down. They should correct and not remove them. 

No one knew that they were wrong. The previous post from roadman only mentioned inquiring about their presence, not about errors. No one at the local level would ever notice they were wrong, because no local is navigating Boston by route marker signs.

I hear that they are being corrected. Most if not all of the errors noted in the news report can be easily fixed by flipping an arrow or changing a cardinal direction plaque.

[PHLBOS]

Based on the Fox25 news story, it appears that the errors were traced back to the signing design plans from the engineering firm and nobody along the pipeline (the the project manager, the PE that signed the drawings (if applicable), contractor, officials, etc.) caught the errors during the whole process.

That being the case the cost to correct/change the signs should be picked up by the design firm; fortunately, these signs were only trailblazer/assurance markers and not BGS' or LGS'.  The wrong-way arrow signs can be simply flipped around 180 to be correct.

The news story does not mention anything regarding the erroneous MA 2A signs posted along Mass Ave. south of Commonwealth Ave./MA 2; although someone from here (not me) mentioned such in the article's Comment section.

[Pete from Boston]

While they're at it, can they run up to Somerville and take down all the "38 South" signs south of the southern end of 38? 

[PHLBOS]

While they're at it, can they run up to Somerville and take down all the "38 South" signs south of the southern end of 38?

South of I-93, are there any such signs?  Supposedly, MA 38 was indeed extended south (according to MassDOT) to meet up w/MA 99, which is also a ghost in Charlestown.

[Pete from Boston]

While they're at it, can they run up to Somerville and take down all the "38 South" signs south of the southern end of 38?

South of I-93, are there any such signs?  Supposedly, MA 38 was indeed extended south (according to MassDOT) to meet up w/MA 99, which is also a ghost in Charlestown.

MP 0.0 is at the intersection with 28 (McGrath Highway) next to the Stop & Shop.  Amusingly, there's a "38 South" paddle sign about 18 inches before the 0.0 marker.  There are several more south of there, including on one or more BGSes. 

[PHLBOS]

While they're at it, can they run up to Somerville and take down all the "38 South" signs south of the southern end of 38?

South of I-93, are there any such signs?  Supposedly, MA 38 was indeed extended south (according to MassDOT) to meet up w/MA 99, which is also a ghost in Charlestown.

MP 0.0 is at the intersection with 28 (McGrath Highway) next to the Stop & Shop.  Amusingly, there's a "38 South" paddle sign about 18 inches before the 0.0 marker.  There are several more south of there, including on one or more BGSes. 

The above was discussed in another thread and Roadman can confirm.  Supposedly, MassDOT extended MA 38 south of MA 28 on paper but never fully added sufficient signs nor revised the mile markers to reflect such.

That said, I'm aware of a few LGS' (some here refer to them as paddle signs) and trailblazer signs existing south of MA 28 near/at I-93.  What I was previously asking above was has MassDOT installed more signs and/or LGS' reflecting such an extension since GSV photos were taken?

[roadman]

The above was discussed in another thread and Roadman can confirm.  Supposedly, MassDOT extended MA 38 south of MA 28 on paper but never fully added sufficient signs nor revised the mile markers to reflect such.

That said, I'm aware of a few LGS' (some here refer to them as paddle signs) and trailblazer signs existing south of MA 28 near/at I-93.  What I was previously asking above was has MassDOT installed more signs and/or LGS' reflecting such an extension since GSV photos were taken?

The route changes mentioned in the other thread (extension of MA 38 from McGrath Highway into City Square and truncation of MA 99 at Sullivan Square) actually occurred at some point in the late MassDPW days during the CANA (Central Artery North Area - first phase of the Big Dig) project.  Best I can tell, what actually happened regarding the lack of "follow-through" was that the District was notified of the changes, but the official route logs and road inventory file were never updated. Throw in the district re-organization that happened with the branding change to MassHighway (District 8, which included most of the Greater Boston Area much like today's District 6, was eliminated and those roads/communities were transferred to an enlarged District 4), and it's not too hard to see why signs were never updated.  Also, IIRC, MA 99 was never signed south of Sullivan Square anyway (except for the NB BGS entering the 'tunnel' under Sullivan Square).

At one point, I had a copy of the original MassDPW Board of Commissioner's "Miscellaneous Item" approving the MA 38/MA 99 route changes in my personal files.  I'll have to see if I can find it.

[NE2]

Also, IIRC, MA 99 was never signed south of Sullivan Square anyway (except for the NB BGS entering the 'tunnel' under Sullivan Square).

If my notes ca. 2000 are complete, there was only a "Rutherford Ave TO 99" overhead approaching the left turn for US 1 north, but by SEPTEMBER 11 2001 NEVER FORGET it was covered by 93 NORTH.


The Goog shows that it's been replaced by an actual NORTH 99 TO NORTH 93, meaning 99 is signed better now than it was then.

[PHLBOS]

Also, IIRC, MA 99 was never signed south of Sullivan Square anyway (except for the NB BGS entering the 'tunnel' under Sullivan Square).

If my notes ca. 2000 are complete, there was only a "Rutherford Ave TO 99" overhead approaching the left turn for US 1 north, but by SEPTEMBER 11 2001 NEVER FORGET it was covered by 93 NORTH.


The Goog shows that it's been replaced by an actual NORTH 99 TO NORTH 93, meaning 99 is signed better now than it was then.

Not by much, especially for 99 Southbound.

For reference: Current GSV of fore-mentioned gantry along northbound Rutherford Ave./MA 99 North (note: all the BGS on the gantry were since changed compared to the above-photo)

Southbound view of the same gantry w/no mention of 99 South on BGS' nor supplemental trailblazer signs

99 South still disappears signwise once one crosses into Charlestown.

Southernmost sign for MA 99 South per Goog

[roadman]

Had forgotten about that northbound assembly - thanks.

[bob7374]

Back to Route 2A. There's been an interesting addition to the MA 2A Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Route_2A. I noticed about a month ago that someone had edited the page to make Melnea Cass Blvd the new eastern terminus due to the new signs along Mass Ave. I edited that portion to include a statement that the signs are probably in error since it doesn't appear that the route has been extended officially by MassDOT, and besides, the directional banners are all wrong. Several days ago a new entry appeared stating 'the directional banners on the sign assemblies have been corrected to indicate Route 2A continues westbound toward Melnea Cass Boulevard.'
Huh? How should this be interpreted? That the author mistakenly put westward when they meant eastward and the banners have been fixed, but the route signs remain, that the north/south banners in the vicinity of Melnea Cass have been changed to east/west but are reversed like the other signs, or they mistakenly thought the existing banners were now correct. I hopefully will find the time over the next week to drive through the area to figure out what the truth is. It would be interesting, to say the least, if the banners were changed but the 2A shields remain.

[PHLBOS]

^^Just goes to show, that one can't completely trust Wikipedia for info.

[roadman]

^^Just goes to show, that one can't completely trust Wikipedia for info.

For the record, Melnea Cass Boulevard is NOT the new terminus of MA 2A.  The signs put up by the City of Boston's contractor are in error and are expected to be removed shortly.  2A still ends/begins on Mass Ave at Commonwealth Avenue.

[PHLBOS]

For the record, Melnea Cass Boulevard is NOT the new terminus of MA 2A.
...
2A still ends/begins on Mass Ave at Commonwealth Avenue.

Agree 100%

[SectorZ]

The Wikipedia page has also been wrong for a while with the ultimate secret section of MA 2A in Evring. Old State Rd, an almost 2 mile long older routing of MA 2 itself, has 3 separate mile markers (a whole number, 2 tenths) that correspond to the 2A distance starting at I-91/MA 2 in Greenfield. There is no street view of it, and I realized it on a bicycle ride out there. I have no idea what is really correct, 2A is just supposed to be a silent concurrency from Greenfield to Erving east of this stretch, but the mile markers are there and new since they correspond to the distance after removing the Shelburne Falls section.

[Alps]

The Wikipedia page has also been wrong for a while with the ultimate secret section of MA 2A in Evring. Old State Rd, an almost 2 mile long older routing of MA 2 itself, has 3 separate mile markers (a whole number, 2 tenths) that correspond to the 2A distance starting at I-91/MA 2 in Greenfield. There is no street view of it, and I realized it on a bicycle ride out there. I have no idea what is really correct, 2A is just supposed to be a silent concurrency from Greenfield to Erving east of this stretch, but the mile markers are there and new since they correspond to the distance after removing the Shelburne Falls section.

How new? I was never aware of this being state-maintained, let alone part of 2A.

EDIT: Checked http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/TrafficTravelResources/OfficialTransportationMap.aspx - no trace as of 2012.