Retail loss prevention

[Max Rockatansky]

It is odd to recall an actual time when it wasn't a total flaming dumpster fire collapsing on itself.  I started at Sears in 2005 as an LP Investigator a store that was doing about $54,000,000 in sales (large volume).  The LP Manager was fired about a month into my tenure which led to me becoming the interim LP Manager for about six months.  I did well enough that I was promoted to an LP Manager at a $30,000,000 Sears Store moderate/high volume.  I ended up back over my original store about another eight/nine months after that. 

The volume at both stores I worked at Sears declined from 2005-2007 but the bottom really fell out during 2008.  The original store I described above bottom out with annual sales of $14,000,000 whereas the second had dropped to $11,000,000 by the time I quit in 2010. 

The merger of Kmart and Sears happened in early 2005 a couple months before I started.  The effects of this merger weren't really apparent to me until 2007 when a bunch of Kmart stores started becoming Sears Grand.  For awhile Sears tried branding all managers as "Coaches"  which I guess was a Kmart thing.  I ended getting some market investigation stuff to do for the Southern California Sears Grand stores.  They gradually over the course 2007-2010 returned to being Kmart.  The product quality at Sears noticeably declined around 2007 when Kmart suppliers started getting involved. 

[Duke87]

I know that if I stole something while growing up, even if it was a minor item like a candy bar, I know that I would experience the fire and brimstone of my parents. Yet, there are many people who work, take advantage, or exploit the system and take advantage of every loophole available. California's proposition 47 classifying theft under $950 as a misdemeanor, plus the reluctance of prosecutors to follow through on those theft reports, plus the leanings of those judges, results in retailers not bothering to file a police report. Thus, the exploit.

Actions have consequences. Sometimes, those consequences are unplanned, unintended, and unexpected, yet can last for years, decades, or an entire lifetime.

There are still plenty of kids who would receive similar treatment from their parents if they were caught stealing. Of course, they're not the ones stealing things.

As far as legal consequences go, I'm going to have my "don't make me tap the sign" moment here:
More severe penalties are not effective at deterring crime. A higher likelihood of getting caught is.

This is because the human mind is not very good at processing risks that are high consequence but low probability, and will tend to either dismiss them and not worry about them (people get in their cars all the time and don't worry about dying in a car crash) or in some cases be overly paranoid about them (some people are afraid of getting on a plane in case it crashes, even though this is statistically less likely than getting into a car crash).

This even bears out for minor offenses. Does anyone drive slower in states where the fines for speeding are higher? No. Does anyone drive slower through towns known to be notorious speed traps? Yes, absolutely.


Ergo, CA increasing the threshold for shoplifting being a felony doesn't encourage crime like you might think it does, because the magnitude of the penalty is far less important than the likelihood of ending up subject to it. DAs being unwilling to prosecute cases is more of an issue in that regard, but this isn't connected to felony vs. misdemeanor.

[kalvado]

DAs being unwilling to prosecute cases is more of an issue in that regard, but this isn't connected to felony vs. misdemeanor.

There may be some connection - and a philosophical problem of the justice system which pretty much limits itself to either fines and imprisonment.
DAs definitely have more interest in dealing with bigger crimes - as justice itself is expensive, time consuming, and often counterproductive. So prosecuting a smaller crime, after plea down, may be a net loss for everyone. Fines are only that efficient, especially if offender has no money to pay, and may be damaging long term. And I don't understand idea of imprisonment as a way of punishing people in general. In smaller communities, social consequences of a crime were a significant part of restraint. Today not only communities became larger, so wrongdoings are not staining person socially any more - there is a concept  of "poor person stealing from a rich corporation" which removes internal guilt as a stopping factor.

Most people would be offended by idea, but.....  the more I think about it, the more sense corporal punishment for smaller crimes makes to me. Feel free to disagree.

[ZLoth]

DAs being unwilling to prosecute cases is more of an issue in that regard, but this isn't connected to felony vs. misdemeanor.

There may be some connection - and a philosophical problem of the justice system which pretty much limits itself to either fines and imprisonment.
DAs definitely have more interest in dealing with bigger crimes - as justice itself is expensive, time consuming, and often counterproductive. So prosecuting a smaller crime, after plea down, may be a net loss for everyone. Fines are only that efficient, especially if offender has no money to pay, and may be damaging long term. And I don't understand idea of imprisonment as a way of punishing people in general. In smaller communities, social consequences of a crime were a significant part of restraint. Today not only communities became larger, so wrongdoings are not staining person socially any more - there is a concept  of "poor person stealing from a rich corporation" which removes internal guilt as a stopping factor.

Most people would be offended by idea, but.....  the more I think about it, the more sense corporal punishment for smaller crimes makes to me. Feel free to disagree.

In some cases, they feel that the big corporation (or government for that matter) is "the man" that has exploited them. I can understand that sentiment, but that doesn't make it right.

This is also why I feel challenged with some of the fixed fines that are handed out. Depending on your income level, it can either have devastating effect on your finances if you are barely making ends meet driving your econobox or just another minor inconvenience if you are a rich "kid" with more money than brains driving a sports car that costs more than your combined apartment rent for the next sixty months. Thus, I'm in favor of making fines more income-based.

[kalvado]

DAs being unwilling to prosecute cases is more of an issue in that regard, but this isn't connected to felony vs. misdemeanor.

There may be some connection - and a philosophical problem of the justice system which pretty much limits itself to either fines and imprisonment.
DAs definitely have more interest in dealing with bigger crimes - as justice itself is expensive, time consuming, and often counterproductive. So prosecuting a smaller crime, after plea down, may be a net loss for everyone. Fines are only that efficient, especially if offender has no money to pay, and may be damaging long term. And I don't understand idea of imprisonment as a way of punishing people in general. In smaller communities, social consequences of a crime were a significant part of restraint. Today not only communities became larger, so wrongdoings are not staining person socially any more - there is a concept  of "poor person stealing from a rich corporation" which removes internal guilt as a stopping factor.

Most people would be offended by idea, but.....  the more I think about it, the more sense corporal punishment for smaller crimes makes to me. Feel free to disagree.

In some cases, they feel that the big corporation (or government for that matter) is "the man" that has exploited them. I can understand that sentiment, but that doesn't make it right.

This is also why I feel challenged with some of the fixed fines that are handed out. Depending on your income level, it can either have devastating effect on your finances if you are barely making ends meet driving your econobox or just another minor inconvenience if you are a rich "kid" with more money than brains driving a sports car that costs more than your combined apartment rent for the next sixty months. Thus, I'm in favor of making fines more income-based.

Income based is another can of worms. THere are a lot of fine print, from family size to living conditions to... wel a lot of variables.
And how are you going to apply that to folks who steal $900 worth of stuff to exchange for $100 worth of controlled substance - with food stamps as the only other source of income? I suspect that is a non-negligible population among shoplifters...

[ZLoth]

This is also why I feel challenged with some of the fixed fines that are handed out. Depending on your income level, it can either have devastating effect on your finances if you are barely making ends meet driving your econobox or just another minor inconvenience if you are a rich "kid" with more money than brains driving a sports car that costs more than your combined apartment rent for the next sixty months. Thus, I'm in favor of making fines more income-based.

Income based is another can of worms. THere are a lot of fine print, from family size to living conditions to... wel a lot of variables.
And how are you going to apply that to folks who steal $900 worth of stuff to exchange for $100 worth of controlled substance - with food stamps as the only other source of income? I suspect that is a non-negligible population among shoplifters...

I will acknowledge that I pulled from two very extreme ends of the income spectrum. Having said that, the alternative if you can't pay is spending some weekends doing community work such as picking up trash on a county highway.

Having said that, I'm also of the opinion that crime often beings at the small and young level. If you can "get away" with the small level, the next level being bigger until, some time later, the misdemenor level is now a felony level crime. But, I'm also of the opinion that there are some "kids" who are more "adult" (mature) than some "adults" who act like "kids" (immature) including making some decisions that have some of us roll our eyes and say "really"... especially if they are "Karins".

[Max Rockatansky]

Theft is liking speeding on the in a lot of ways.  Like speeding, a lot of people don't see a problem with stealing from a store until they roll the dice too many times and get caught.  There isn't any level of education that is going to instill ethics into someone who weigh risk/reward in such a way as Duke described above.  The best you can do is attempt to deter/mitigate as much as possible and forcibly stop the act when necessary. 

[kalvado]

Theft is liking speeding on the in a lot of ways.  Like speeding, a lot of people don't see a problem with stealing from a store until they roll the dice too many times and get caught.  There isn't any level of education that is going to instill ethics into someone who weigh risk/reward in such a way as Duke described above.  The best you can do is attempt to deter/mitigate as much as possible and forcibly stop the act when necessary.

Well, "forcibly" seems pretty much off the table these days, right? 
I still would love to live in the world where "Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal" are more or less moral imperatives acquired early in life, rather than a religious dogma or re-phrase of a criminal code.

[Max Rockatansky]

Theft is liking speeding on the in a lot of ways.  Like speeding, a lot of people don't see a problem with stealing from a store until they roll the dice too many times and get caught.  There isn't any level of education that is going to instill ethics into someone who weigh risk/reward in such a way as Duke described above.  The best you can do is attempt to deter/mitigate as much as possible and forcibly stop the act when necessary.

Well, "forcibly" seems pretty much off the table these days, right? 
I still would love to live in the world where "Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal" are more or less moral imperatives acquired early in life, rather than a religious dogma or re-phrase of a criminal code.

At the retail end it really isn't.  In the last couple pages I noted most retailers are still permitting their LP staff to make apprehensions.  What's changed is the amount of retailers that are willing to allow staff to go "hands on"  with shoplifters. 

I for one tend to be of the opinion that hands on shoplift apprehensions were more trouble than they were worth.  All it took was someone to get hurt or an investigator using too much force to end up in a situation where a settlement payment or Workman's Comp claim became necessary.

Worth noting, fear of being prosecuted tends to only scare/deter regular people.  I never found that the same threat carried much weight with season Boosters who were stealing for profit.

[kalvado]

Theft is liking speeding on the in a lot of ways.  Like speeding, a lot of people don't see a problem with stealing from a store until they roll the dice too many times and get caught.  There isn't any level of education that is going to instill ethics into someone who weigh risk/reward in such a way as Duke described above.  The best you can do is attempt to deter/mitigate as much as possible and forcibly stop the act when necessary.

Well, "forcibly" seems pretty much off the table these days, right? 
I still would love to live in the world where "Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal" are more or less moral imperatives acquired early in life, rather than a religious dogma or re-phrase of a criminal code.

At the retail end it really isn't.  In the last couple pages I noted most retailers are still permitting their LP staff to make apprehensions.  What's changed is the amount of retailers that are willing to allow staff to go "hands on"  with shoplifters. 

I for one tend to be of the opinion that hands on shoplift apprehensions were more trouble than they were worth.  All it took was someone to get hurt or an investigator using too much force to end up in a situation where a settlement payment or Workman's Comp claim became necessary.

Worth noting, fear of being prosecuted tends to only scare/deter regular people.  I never found that the same threat carried much weight with season Boosters who were stealing for profit.

I may be lost with the terminology then. What is "hands-on apprehension" in your world? Using force rather than just words in a "non-hands on" event?

[Max Rockatansky]

Theft is liking speeding on the in a lot of ways.  Like speeding, a lot of people don't see a problem with stealing from a store until they roll the dice too many times and get caught.  There isn't any level of education that is going to instill ethics into someone who weigh risk/reward in such a way as Duke described above.  The best you can do is attempt to deter/mitigate as much as possible and forcibly stop the act when necessary.

Well, "forcibly" seems pretty much off the table these days, right? 
I still would love to live in the world where "Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal" are more or less moral imperatives acquired early in life, rather than a religious dogma or re-phrase of a criminal code.

At the retail end it really isn't.  In the last couple pages I noted most retailers are still permitting their LP staff to make apprehensions.  What's changed is the amount of retailers that are willing to allow staff to go "hands on"  with shoplifters. 

I for one tend to be of the opinion that hands on shoplift apprehensions were more trouble than they were worth.  All it took was someone to get hurt or an investigator using too much force to end up in a situation where a settlement payment or Workman's Comp claim became necessary.

Worth noting, fear of being prosecuted tends to only scare/deter regular people.  I never found that the same threat carried much weight with season Boosters who were stealing for profit.

I may be lost with the terminology then. What is "hands-on apprehension" in your world? Using force rather than just words in a "non-hands on" event?

What I mean is "physically restraining the shoplifter."   The typical LP lingo is "hands on apprehension."  

[bing101]

Here we go again.

[Max Rockatansky]

Not quite as good as Spider Wraps on steaks but close:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/foodnews/when-we-were-leaving-it-beeped-walmart-shopper-finds-hidden-security-tag-under-steak/ar-AA1fOpWF

[tchafe1978]

Security tags are probably better, they're more conspicuous. I've seen the spider wraps taken right off the package or the package torn open to get the spider wraps off.

[Max Rockatansky]

The problem with Spider Wraps is that they are designed for large boxes.  Outside of that application they aren't particularly useful due of a possible loose fit.

[bugo]

I can easily see a model where perhaps you pick your own produce and there's still a meat/deli counter and bakery, but all your dry and frozen goods are selected on a kiosk or even in an app before you arrive.  Smaller footprint and less labor gets spent on restocking shelves.

This isn't a whole lot different from online in-store pickup, which is offered by many grocery stores along with curbside pickup. The inner workings would be different, but the end result to the consumer is much the same.

[ErmineNotyours]

My fitbit sets off some security sensors, but not others.  So I can't wear it when I go to the mall.

One time while shopping at Fred Meyer (Kroger) on Sunday morning, someone leaving in front of me set off the security alarm with a cart full of beer and meat, all of it unbagged.  The store has since put up gates and usually has a guard checking receipts, but he's not there all the time.

[Max Rockatansky]

All those EAS towers do is picked up something magnetized.  Usually running the offending item over a weak demagnetizer (like the ones they use in stores) is enough to stop it from activating the towers.

[kphoger]

My fitbit sets off some security sensors, but not others.  So I can't wear it when I go to the mall.

One time while shopping at Fred Meyer (Kroger) on Sunday morning, someone leaving in front of me set off the security alarm with a cart full of beer and meat, all of it unbagged.  The store has since put up gates and usually has a guard checking receipts, but he's not there all the time.

Our local Dillon's (Kroger) recently installed gates, and at first it seemed like half the shoppers walking into the store would set off the alarm–my wife and me included.  She does wear a Fitbit, so maybe that's it.  Anyway, I always just ignore the alarms, as does nearly everyone else.  Lately, it doesn't go off as frequently, so maybe they adjusted some settings or something.

The store has a security guard but, if he started checking receipts, then I'd just politely decline and walk right past him.  It isn't Costco:  I didn't agree to be hassled on my way out of the store.

[Max Rockatansky]

There usually is a sensitivity setting on EAS towers.  Most models come with some sort of wall mounted tracker nearby which counts the number of times it activates.

[vdeane]

I can easily see a model where perhaps you pick your own produce and there's still a meat/deli counter and bakery, but all your dry and frozen goods are selected on a kiosk or even in an app before you arrive.  Smaller footprint and less labor gets spent on restocking shelves.

I think I'd rather not.  There's still utilizing in selecting dry/frozen goods, even if it's less critical.  I've seen cereal and frozen foods with busted up cardboard (which, while cosmetic, I'd rather not look at if given the choice), busted up soup containers (more critical), frozen veggies that were either frozen solid already or even had a hole in the bag, sliced bread that's near the expiration date or which doesn't have the expected number of slices (more important than one would think, since I'm single and only use it for toast at breakfast, so it lasts 9 days and keeping it in sync with my eggs makes managing grocery shopping much simpler since I'm on the spectrum, especially given how often I travel), etc.

[J N Winkler]

Our local Dillon's (Kroger) recently installed gates, and at first it seemed like half the shoppers walking into the store would set off the alarm–my wife and me included.  She does wear a Fitbit, so maybe that's it.  Anyway, I always just ignore the alarms, as does nearly everyone else.  Lately, it doesn't go off as frequently, so maybe they adjusted some settings or something.

Are there turnstiles or something else that would freeze in place when the alarm goes off, or just sensor posts?  I think we have the latter but not the former at 13th and West.

[kalvado]

Our local Dillon's (Kroger) recently installed gates, and at first it seemed like half the shoppers walking into the store would set off the alarm–my wife and me included.  She does wear a Fitbit, so maybe that's it.  Anyway, I always just ignore the alarms, as does nearly everyone else.  Lately, it doesn't go off as frequently, so maybe they adjusted some settings or something.

Are there turnstiles or something else that would freeze in place when the alarm goes off, or just sensor posts?  I think we have the latter but not the former at 13th and West.

Fire safety will require uninhibited evacuation.  So no lockout options preventing exit will be allowed.

[J N Winkler]

Fire safety will require uninhibited evacuation.  So no lockout options preventing exit will be allowed.

I would love it if that were interpreted as prohibiting turnstiles altogether.  Unfortunately, that is not the case here.  There is a Walmart Neighborhood Market not far from me (21st and Amidon) that requires clearing a gate in order to enter, and I suspect they comply with the evacuation requirement by providing unimpeded access through the checkouts.

[Max Rockatansky]

How the Emergency Exit signage configured in these stores?