Where does I-95 go in Philadelphia?

[Indyroads]

With regards to the ROUTE GAP as well as ROUTE CONTINUITY,  wouldn't this be a better candidate for a I-95W and I-95E split instead. I-95E wouls follow the Turnpike on the New Jersey Side and I-95W goes through Philly and reconnects to the Turnpikes via the new planned gap closure at I-376 (PA TPK)

[PHLBOS]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

A few things:

1.  PennDOT built their stretch of I-95 not the PTC.

2.  Plans were already in the works to build an PA Turnpike/I-95 interchange well before NJ's cancellation of the Somerset Freeway.  The original plan called for conventional trumpet interchange w/the Turnpike w/an extension of the connector road that presently links I-95 (at Exit 40) & PA 413 in Bristol, Bucks County.  A toll plaza would've been located along this new connector extension.  When word got out that the NJ Freeway was cancelled circa 1982 (one needs to remember that I-295 & 195 east of Trenton weren't complete at the time (such wouldn't happen until nearly a decade later); otherwise, I-295 north of Exit 60 and I-195 west of Exit 6 could've easily been the de-facto I-95); the original interchange design was scrapped and work for the current design & relocation (to Middletown Township), along with the related-permitting started.

3.  Since the highway in question is an Interstate highway; PennDOT (& probably the PTC) were, no doubt, at least briefed when the possible cancellation of I-95 in NJ became certain given the close proximity of the proposed highway segment (the southern connection) to the state line.

Since I-95 through Philly was already complete when the decision to kill off the Somerset Freeway was made (the entire PA segment of I-95 was fully complete minus the missing link at PHL airport by then); any proposals to either have I-95 completely bypass PA & Philadelphia (either along the entire NJ Turnpike or along most of I-295) were likely considered to be non-starters.

With regards to the ROUTE GAP as well as ROUTE CONTINUITY,  wouldn't this be a better candidate for a I-95W and I-95E split instead. I-95E wouls follow the Turnpike on the New Jersey Side and I-95W goes through Philly and reconnects to the Turnpikes via the new planned gap closure at I-376 (PA TPK)

Entering Fantasy/Fiction territory here but I would recommend:

1.  Making the NJ Turnpike, the Delaware Memorial Bridge and I-295 in DE and NJ southwest of NJ Turnpike's Exit 1 to be I-95E (similar to your suggestion).

2.  Make I-95 between the two-I-495 connetions in DE I-95W.

3.  Have the future (post-interchange connection) I-95 in NJ & PA remain and have the current I-495 in DE become I-95.

[qguy]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

Short answer: because Congress made 'em.

Longer answer: see this thread: www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5430.0 (I-95 gap in NJ) for details.

[Gnutella]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

Simple, so everybody can shit all over Pennsylvania and pretend it's their fault.

[jeffandnicole]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

Simple, so everybody can shit all over Pennsylvania and pretend it's their fault.

It's an interstate highway.  I don't think anyone in PA took it personally.

And in a way, it could be considered PA's problem.  I-95 is nothing more than a route designation.  95 could have been rerouted to cross the Delaware Memorial Bridge and come up the NJ Turnpike.  But that would leave Philly (and Wilmington) off the I-95 corridor.  In exchange for keeping 95's routing thru those cities, they can come up with the interchange to keep 95 moving relatively North/South.

Does VA and Maryland whine that the traffic on the Beltway should be DC's problem?

[Alps]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

Regardless of the problem, PTC created a problem by not interchanging with 95 when it came through. There had been proposals including a road off the 413/895 trumpet and completing the 13 freeway, but nothing has happened. It's overdue even if 95 were complete.

[Gnutella]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

Regardless of the problem, PTC created a problem by not interchanging with 95 when it came through. There had been proposals including a road off the 413/895 trumpet and completing the 13 freeway, but nothing has happened. It's overdue even if 95 were complete.

Once upon a time, there were federal laws prohibiting toll highways from having direct access to free highways. That's the feds' fault, as far as I'm concerned.

[Alps]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

Regardless of the problem, PTC created a problem by not interchanging with 95 when it came through. There had been proposals including a road off the 413/895 trumpet and completing the 13 freeway, but nothing has happened. It's overdue even if 95 were complete.

Once upon a time, there were federal laws prohibiting toll highways from having direct access to free highways. That's the feds' fault, as far as I'm concerned.

That's utter bullshit, considering almost every interchange on a toll highway connects to a free one.

[PHLBOS]

considering almost every interchange on a toll highway connects to a free one.

Such wasn't always the case... at least involving toll road connections w/free Interstates.  OTOH, connections w/non-Interstate highways or ones that were grandfathered into the system were allowed.

http://www.paturnpikei95.com/history1.htm

Excerpt from link (Bold emphasis added):

1969
I-95 is completed through Bucks County.  Original plan includes a full interchange between the PA Turnpike and I-95, but federal funds were not permitted to be used to connect an Interstate highway to a toll road, under federal laws and regulations of that period.  (The federal laws have since been modified to permit such a project.)

If one looks at the PA Turnpike, there are still some non-direct (examples: Breezewood & Carlisle) connections w/interstates.

[KEVIN_224]

Maybe that's why the I-90/I-91 interchange on the West Springfield/Holyoke, MA town line looks like this?

http://goo.gl/maps/AhKWF

(I think it's actually because US Route 5 nearby pre-dates I-91.)

[PHLBOS]

Maybe that's why the I-90/I-91 interchange on the West Springfield/Holyoke, MA town line looks like this?

http://goo.gl/maps/AhKWF

(I think it's actually because US Route 5 nearby pre-dates I-91.)

Correct on both counts.

Here's how the area looked circa 1957.

The 1971 image shows the added connections to I-91.

[vdeane]

That law says funding can't be used, not that the connection can't be made.  There's no reason the PTC couldn't have built it with their own money, like the Thruway, MassPike, Ohio Turnpike, New Jersey Turnpike, and others did (though the Thruway had it easy since it was mostly built at the same time as the other interstates, I-84 being the big exception).  Pennsylvania is the ONLY place where these non-connections are so pervasive.  It would stand to reason, then, that this is caused by something intrinsic to PA, not that federal law.

[SteveG1988]

That law says funding can't be used, not that the connection can't be made.  There's no reason the PTC couldn't have built it with their own money, like the Thruway, MassPike, Ohio Turnpike, New Jersey Turnpike, and others did (though the Thruway had it easy since it was mostly built at the same time as the other interstates, I-84 being the big exception).  Pennsylvania is the ONLY place where these non-connections are so pervasive.  It would stand to reason, then, that this is caused by something intrinsic to PA, not that federal law.

It's called money. the PTC would have to maintain sections of the ramps to or from the non toll road. For example breezewood PA, they only maintain the bit to get from the turnpike/I-70 to US30 if i remember correctly, and the bit from I-70 to connect to the turnpike segment  via us30 was federally funded.

If they do not see a potential return on the new interchange, then why build it

[cpzilliacus]

Does VA and Maryland whine that the traffic on the Beltway should be DC's problem?

Maryland and especially Virginia should have demanded that the District of Columbia fund at least some of the interchange reconstruction costs associated with the rerouting of I-95 around the south and east sides of D.C., but as far as I know, they never did.

[cpzilliacus]

I still don't get why PTC has to fix a New Jersey problem. Didn't they build their 95?

Regardless of the problem, PTC created a problem by not interchanging with 95 when it came through. There had been proposals including a road off the 413/895 trumpet and completing the 13 freeway, but nothing has happened. It's overdue even if 95 were complete.

[Emphasis added above]

That is the shortest and best discussion of the current state of non-contiguous I-95 in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. 

But then, the PTC has repeatedly failed to properly connect "free" sections of Pennsylvania freeways and expressways to the Mainline and Northeast Extension parts of its system.

[cpzilliacus]

That law says funding can't be used, not that the connection can't be made.  There's no reason the PTC couldn't have built it with their own money, like the Thruway, MassPike, Ohio Turnpike, New Jersey Turnpike, and others did (though the Thruway had it easy since it was mostly built at the same time as the other interstates, I-84 being the big exception).  Pennsylvania is the ONLY place where these non-connections are so pervasive.  It would stand to reason, then, that this is caused by something intrinsic to PA, not that federal law.

I believe the federal provisions that made it difficult to connect new "free" Interstates and other freeways and expressways to toll roads like the Pennsylvania Turnpike no longer apply. 

As I understand it, the breezewoods remain in Pennsylvania because of excessive influence by land owners and businesses along the arterial sections of road that traffic must use to get from the Turnpike interchange to the crossing freeway or expressway.  Examples including Pa. 601 in Somerset, Business U.S. 220 in Bedford, U.S. 30 in Breezewood, U.S. 11 in Carlisle, along Pa. 940 near Pocono and along Pa. 315 near Pittston and Scranton.

[signalman]

As I understand it, the breezewoods remain in Pennsylvania because of excessive influence by land owners and businesses along the arterial sections of road that traffic must use to get from the Turnpike interchange to the crossing freeway or expressway.  Examples including Pa. 601 in Somerset, Business U.S. 220 in Bedford, U.S. 30 in Breezewood, U.S. 11 in Carlisle, along Pa. 940 near Pocono and along Pa. 315 near Pittston and Scranton.

PA 940 isn't used to access I-80 or the NE Extension of the PA Turnpike (depending on the direction of travel).  It is only crossed at a signalized intersection.

[vdeane]

It's called money. the PTC would have to maintain sections of the ramps to or from the non toll road. For example breezewood PA, they only maintain the bit to get from the turnpike/I-70 to US30 if i remember correctly, and the bit from I-70 to connect to the turnpike segment  via us30 was federally funded.

If they do not see a potential return on the new interchange, then why build it

Because it's the right thing to do.

[Gnutella]

Well the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission has been too busy reconstructing and widening the 73-year-old Turnpike to worry about direct connections with all free Interstates at the moment, so deal with it. And you all know goddamn well that if somebody proposed a direct connection with I-95 back in the 1970's or 1980's, it would have immediately been blasted out of the sky by NIMBYs. Fuck, it's in Bucks County, the same county that thought the U.S. 202 "parkway" was a worthwhile compromise. And the interchanges where businesses haven't bitched about losing business have already been upgraded, such as I-376 in Big Beaver Township, I-79, I-376 in Monroeville, I-70 in New Stanton, U.S. 15, I-83, I-283/PA 283, U.S. 222, I-176, I-76/U.S. 202/U.S. 422, I-476, PA 309, I-78/U.S. 22/PA 309, I-81 in Pittston Township and I-81 in Clarks Summit. I bet none of you knew there were that many direct connections already.

And with a direct connection to I-95 already in progress, that leaves PA 28, U.S. 219, I-99, I-70 in Breezewood, I-81 in Carlisle and I-80 as the only junctions with no direct connections to limited-access highways. That means 15 of 22 junctions along the Turnpike and the Northeast Extension already have direct connections, with six not on the table yet, and four of those six involving businesses that are ready to shoot down any proposal. It's already expensive enough to reconstruct and six-lane the Turnpike, dig a whole new Allegheny Mountain Tunnel, and reduce the debt from all those subsidies to PennDOT after Ed Rendell's I-80 tolling proposal fell through. Class-action lawsuits from dozens of business owners just aren't worth dealing with right now. Maybe after 2020, when most of the Turnpike has been reconstructed.

[TheKnightoftheInterstate]

It's called money. the PTC would have to maintain sections of the ramps to or from the non toll road. For example breezewood PA, they only maintain the bit to get from the turnpike/I-70 to US30 if i remember correctly, and the bit from I-70 to connect to the turnpike segment  via us30 was federally funded.

If they do not see a potential return on the new interchange, then why build it

Because it's the right thing to do.

Why should my state pay for it, even if it is the right thing to do? Road projects cost money and I rather PA taxes or loans didn't go to fixing another state problem.

NJ and PA should have jointly paid for the connection when I-95 came through.

I will be the first PA citizen to admit our roads and Interstate aren't up to par (similar to the PA Line in the Continental Army) but NJ's problem should be solved by NJ.

[vdeane]

Because this isn't just the I-95 interchange, but every breezewood on the Turnpike?  Also, PA's choices boiled down to "build the interchange or lose I-95"; I'm pretty sure NJ would have been happy to have I-95 on the Turnpike down to the Delaware Memorial Bridge.  Had the I-95 interchange been built in the fist place, it probably would have been grandfathered in when the reroute happened and this whole saga would have been over in the 80s.

The I-81 Pittston interchange is technically a breezewood since traffic has to take PA 315.  And, if you're being really anal, the I-78 one isn't a direct interstate-to-interstate connection.

[signalman]

The I-81 Pittston interchange is technically a breezewood since traffic has to take PA 315.  And, if you're being really anal, the I-78 one isn't a direct interstate-to-interstate connection.

I'd almost let I-78 slide.  No toll road agency would have built that connection with US 22; an already freeway-to-freeway connection established right next door.

[TheKnightoftheInterstate]

PA played their cards right. We got I-95 and didn't need to pay for a costly construction of an interchange.

The remaining Breezewoods on the Turnpike are hardly that drastic.

[PHLBOS]

somebody proposed a direct connection with I-95 back in the 1970's or 1980's, it would have immediately been blasted out of the sky by NIMBYs.

You might want to re-read that historical account on the fore-mentioned PTC's website.  I-95 in that area was fully constructed by 1969; just prior to the NIMBY stuff hitting the fan (at least for Bucks County). 

it's in Bucks County, the same county that thought the U.S. 202 "parkway" was a worthwhile compromise.

For the record, the ones that actually whined & pressed then-Gov. Rendell shortly after taking office in 2003 to downsize the 202 Bypass Extension to the current Parkway were not the ones that resided near the corridor but actually those that lived north of the older 70s-era bypass... Buckingham Township in particular.  Their *Ahem* concern was that the southern extension would've motivated pressure to construct a northern extension.

As for the PA Turnpike prensently having direct interchanges with other Interstate highways is concerned; if one looks at various historical aerials, many of those interchanges were either:

1.  Recently added/modified (ex. I-176).

2.  Already there prior to said-Interstate being built.

3.  The free highway in question wasn't originally an Interstate (ex. I-376 was originally part of PA 60).

My understanding is that the now-gone prohibition only applied towards federal funding of direct interchanges between toll roads and Interstates.  If the free highway in question was either a US or state (PA) route; I don't believe such a restriction applied... mainly due to the non-Interstate highway having a higher percentage of state funding vs. federal funding at the time.  Guess on my part.

Long story short (& back to the topic at hand); a direct interchange connection between I-95 and the PTC should've happened when I-95 was first built regardless of what was going on w/I-95 in NJ at the time.  I believe we all can agree on that.  And if federal funding prohibition was such; the PTC could've back then fully funded the connection themselves.

While come of the other non-direct connections along the PA Tunrpike may be somewhat understandable given the population and traffic loads at the time; the same can not be said for the busy northeast corridor then or now.

[Mr_Northside]

3.  The free highway in question wasn't originally an Interstate (ex. I-376 was originally part of PA 60).

This particular example doesn't fit, since the intersecting highway is a turnpike toll road as well.  Though there is also local access to PA-351.  This does mean that I-76 to WB (heading NB) I-376 has to contend with a stop sign and a left turn.