NYC Roads

[Mr. Matté]

Still some time to clinch those Lower Manhattan highways- Congestion pricing put on hold

https://abc7ny.com/post/congestion-pricing-nyc-kathy-hochul-start-delay/14912968/

[Rothman]

Oof.  Not sure that's a good look.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good. I was hoping that would happen. Now let's wait and hope it gets canceled. Yeah yeah Rothman I already know what you're gonna say so have at it. lol

[SignBridge]

If it gets permanently cancelled, what will happen to all that overhead camera equipment on the Manhattan streets that we taxpayers spent big bucks to purchase and install?

[Rothman]

My bet is that it'll kick in post-November...

[roadman65]

Why does NY 9A have freeway exit numbers on an arterial roadway?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XaXtVzQXG6xmqFZb6
10th Avenue is one of many between the Battery and Henry Hudson Parkway that use them.

[Rothman]

I don't see why not.  Other parkways in NY are signed similarly.

Also, love how your GSV links tend to be half-a-mile away from what you're pointing out.  It's like playing Where's Waldo? but on GSV. ;D

[roadman65]

I don't see why not.  Other parkways in NY are signed similarly.

Also, love how your GSV links tend to be half-a-mile away from what you're pointing out.  It's like playing Where's Waldo? but on GSV. ;D

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wQJqirqvgkB2iSiE9
If it pleases you more.

[Rothman]

I don't see why not.  Other parkways in NY are signed similarly.

Also, love how your GSV links tend to be half-a-mile away from what you're pointing out.  It's like playing Where's Waldo? but on GSV. ;D

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wQJqirqvgkB2iSiE9
If it pleases you more.

And it does!

[vdeane]

Why does NY 9A have freeway exit numbers on an arterial roadway?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XaXtVzQXG6xmqFZb6
10th Avenue is one of many between the Battery and Henry Hudson Parkway that use them.

I presume those are where the old West Side Highway exits were, before it was torn down.

[ixnay]

Will NYCDOT participate in the renumbeing of NYS controlled-access exits?  It will be interesting to see how I-278 will be renumbered, especially along the BQE.

[vdeane]

Will NYCDOT participate in the renumbeing of NYS controlled-access exits?  It will be interesting to see how I-278 will be renumbered, especially along the BQE.

Most freeways around NYC are actually NYSDOT (aside from bridges/tunnels controlled by the MTA or Port Authority and that bit of I-95 that is part of the Thruway).  The exceptions are most of the Belt/Cross Island (practically mile-based already; the only thing that would really be needed is to bring them into MUTCD compliance is to replace the directional suffixes with A/B suffixes; if being strict, also bump up 13-15 by 1), FDR Drive/Harlem River Drive, Bronx River Parkway, part of the Henry Hudson Parkway.

The BQE is an odd case.  Everyone claims it's NYCDOT, but as far as I can tell, it's still state, even though the state washed its hands of the project to replace the triple cantilever once the NIMBYs and New Urbanists came out in droves of opposition.

That said, pretty much everything has at least some NYCDOT signage, because spot replacements are the responsibility of maintenance residencies, which don't exist in Region 11 because their tasks are instead handled by NYCDOT.

(personal opinion)

[Rothman]

Will NYCDOT participate in the renumbeing of NYS controlled-access exits?  It will be interesting to see how I-278 will be renumbered, especially along the BQE.

Most freeways around NYC are actually NYSDOT (aside from bridges/tunnels controlled by the MTA or Port Authority and that bit of I-95 that is part of the Thruway).  The exceptions are most of the Belt/Cross Island (practically mile-based already; the only thing that would really be needed is to bring them into MUTCD compliance is to replace the directional suffixes with A/B suffixes; if being strict, also bump up 13-15 by 1), FDR Drive/Harlem River Drive, Bronx River Parkway, part of the Henry Hudson Parkway.

The BQE is an odd case.  Everyone claims it's NYCDOT, but as far as I can tell, it's still state, even though the state washed its hands of the project to replace the triple cantilever once the NIMBYs and New Urbanists came out in droves of opposition.

That said, pretty much everything has at least some NYCDOT signage, because spot replacements are the responsibility of maintenance residencies, which don't exist in Region 11 because their tasks are instead handled by NYCDOT.

(personal opinion)

The Triple Cantilever has been considered NYCDOT's problem by NYSDOT for at least 15 years.

[vdeane]

Will NYCDOT participate in the renumbeing of NYS controlled-access exits?  It will be interesting to see how I-278 will be renumbered, especially along the BQE.

Most freeways around NYC are actually NYSDOT (aside from bridges/tunnels controlled by the MTA or Port Authority and that bit of I-95 that is part of the Thruway).  The exceptions are most of the Belt/Cross Island (practically mile-based already; the only thing that would really be needed is to bring them into MUTCD compliance is to replace the directional suffixes with A/B suffixes; if being strict, also bump up 13-15 by 1), FDR Drive/Harlem River Drive, Bronx River Parkway, part of the Henry Hudson Parkway.

The BQE is an odd case.  Everyone claims it's NYCDOT, but as far as I can tell, it's still state, even though the state washed its hands of the project to replace the triple cantilever once the NIMBYs and New Urbanists came out in droves of opposition.

That said, pretty much everything has at least some NYCDOT signage, because spot replacements are the responsibility of maintenance residencies, which don't exist in Region 11 because their tasks are instead handled by NYCDOT.

(personal opinion)

The Triple Cantilever has been considered NYCDOT's problem by NYSDOT for at least 15 years.

Sure, but what does that mean exactly?  The articles at the time the project was transferred implied that it was just for the project, ie, jurisdiction would revert to NYSDOT upon completion.  RIS seems to take this view; it still shows as state.  Recent articles, however, imply that NYCDOT owns it permanently/outright.

[roadman65]

I see on Dyer Avenue at 42nd Street there is a TO EAST I-495 shield pointing East, but no follow ups as 42nd Street is above the Queens- Midtown Tunnel. I assume they want you to turn at Second Avenue.


I also see that I-495 is signed for the Lincoln Tunnel despite NJ downgrading the interstate over 40 years ago.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ab5zN2xeNCjm3uRA6

[Rothman]

Will NYCDOT participate in the renumbeing of NYS controlled-access exits?  It will be interesting to see how I-278 will be renumbered, especially along the BQE.

Most freeways around NYC are actually NYSDOT (aside from bridges/tunnels controlled by the MTA or Port Authority and that bit of I-95 that is part of the Thruway).  The exceptions are most of the Belt/Cross Island (practically mile-based already; the only thing that would really be needed is to bring them into MUTCD compliance is to replace the directional suffixes with A/B suffixes; if being strict, also bump up 13-15 by 1), FDR Drive/Harlem River Drive, Bronx River Parkway, part of the Henry Hudson Parkway.

The BQE is an odd case.  Everyone claims it's NYCDOT, but as far as I can tell, it's still state, even though the state washed its hands of the project to replace the triple cantilever once the NIMBYs and New Urbanists came out in droves of opposition.

That said, pretty much everything has at least some NYCDOT signage, because spot replacements are the responsibility of maintenance residencies, which don't exist in Region 11 because their tasks are instead handled by NYCDOT.

(personal opinion)

The Triple Cantilever has been considered NYCDOT's problem by NYSDOT for at least 15 years.

Sure, but what does that mean exactly?  The articles at the time the project was transferred implied that it was just for the project, ie, jurisdiction would revert to NYSDOT upon completion.  RIS seems to take this view; it still shows as state.  Recent articles, however, imply that NYCDOT owns it permanently/outright.

It gets complicated down there with who has maintenance and who has ownership.  Can never keep straight when NYSDOT is maintaining NYCDOT roads or vice versa.

Not sure about ownership "reverting" to NYSDOT after whatever is done is done.  All I know is that the paradigm so far has been NYCDOT coming to NYSDOT for funding assistance and NYSDOT essentially shrugging them off.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/NHvYMan1DkvDW9Pz5
Damn. 22 per Axel on a truck to cross the PANYNJ crossings.  That is way over $100 bucks a trip.

[RobbieL2415]

Will NYCDOT participate in the renumbeing of NYS controlled-access exits?  It will be interesting to see how I-278 will be renumbered, especially along the BQE.

Most freeways around NYC are actually NYSDOT (aside from bridges/tunnels controlled by the MTA or Port Authority and that bit of I-95 that is part of the Thruway).  The exceptions are most of the Belt/Cross Island (practically mile-based already; the only thing that would really be needed is to bring them into MUTCD compliance is to replace the directional suffixes with A/B suffixes; if being strict, also bump up 13-15 by 1), FDR Drive/Harlem River Drive, Bronx River Parkway, part of the Henry Hudson Parkway.

The BQE is an odd case.  Everyone claims it's NYCDOT, but as far as I can tell, it's still state, even though the state washed its hands of the project to replace the triple cantilever once the NIMBYs and New Urbanists came out in droves of opposition.

That said, pretty much everything has at least some NYCDOT signage, because spot replacements are the responsibility of maintenance residencies, which don't exist in Region 11 because their tasks are instead handled by NYCDOT.

(personal opinion)

The Triple Cantilever has been considered NYCDOT's problem by NYSDOT for at least 15 years.

Sure, but what does that mean exactly?  The articles at the time the project was transferred implied that it was just for the project, ie, jurisdiction would revert to NYSDOT upon completion.  RIS seems to take this view; it still shows as state.  Recent articles, however, imply that NYCDOT owns it permanently/outright.

It gets complicated down there with who has maintenance and who has ownership.  Can never keep straight when NYSDOT is maintaining NYCDOT roads or vice versa.

Not sure about ownership "reverting" to NYSDOT after whatever is done is done.  All I know is that the paradigm so far has been NYCDOT coming to NYSDOT for funding assistance and NYSDOT essentially shrugging them off.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Some "State Highway Ends" or "Begin Local Maintenance" signs are in order.

[vdeane]

Some "State Highway Ends" or "Begin Local Maintenance" signs are in order.

Could be useful even outside of NYC .  "Surface roads in cities are local while other signed touring routes are state" is a good rule overall, but exceptions abound.  There are the county-maintained portions of touring routes (although those often have county pentagons making them easy to identify), the cities with both inner and outer districts where the outer district acts more like a town (Rome and Saratoga Springs are the major ones; IIRC Oneida is the third), but also one-off exceptions like NY 67 in Ballston Spa (a small piece is village maintained) and US 4 in Mechanicville (most of it is state, but a small piece is city).  And even most DOT employees wouldn't know them all from memory.

There's also the Thruway and various bridge authorities, but those are a bit more obvious.

Even "look for the reference markers" doesn't work.  Reference marker coverage is not reliable in NYC, and at least part of the county-maintained portion of NY 155 has them.

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/piMcBCgiCfoy8A3f9
Queens as a control city here is more than odd as one is already in that borough. Plus I-495 and 48th Street also serve Queens.

Basically all roads from here lead to Queens.


Also to note an unusual road set up here.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wHyzVPEcE2S6vL726
Having the I-495 collection distributer roadway stacked beneath the main travel lanes is not common.  However, I like this set up.

I'm guessing the upper level was added and the c/d roadway below it was the original alignment for the Horace Harding Expressway.

[SignBridge]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/piMcBCgiCfoy8A3f9
Queens as a control city here is more than odd as one is already in that borough. Plus I-495 and 48th Street also serve Queens.

Basically all roads from here lead to Queens.


Also to note an unusual road set up here.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wHyzVPEcE2S6vL726
Having the I-495 collection distributer roadway stacked beneath the main travel lanes is not common.  However, I like this set up.

I'm guessing the upper level was added and the c/d roadway below it was the original alignment for the Horace Harding Expressway.

Roadman65, you are correct about the history. Original Expwy built circa 1955, and the viaduct above it was built as part of the rebuilt interchange with I-278 (BQE) around 1970. The original interchange was a very inadequate standard 1950's cloverleaf and was jammed up from the day it opened.

And having been a new driver at the time of the rebuilding, I gotta say that new upper level and modern interchange was magnificent in the early 1970's. !

[dantheman]

Also to note an unusual road set up here.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wHyzVPEcE2S6vL726
Having the I-495 collection distributer roadway stacked beneath the main travel lanes is not common.  However, I like this set up.

I'm guessing the upper level was added and the c/d roadway below it was the original alignment for the Horace Harding Expressway.

Roadman65, you are correct about the history. Original Expwy built circa 1955, and the viaduct above it was built as part of the rebuilt interchange with I-278 (BQE) around 1970. The original interchange was a very inadequate standard 1950's cloverleaf and was jammed up from the day it opened.

And having been a new driver at the time of the rebuilding, I gotta say that new upper level and modern interchange was magnificent in the early 1970's. !

It says something interesting philosophy-wise that this was double-decked to minimize impacts on a cemetery... but for plenty of other projects, DOTs don't blink an eye about relocating living people by knocking down their houses to widen a highway.

[roadman65]

Also to note an unusual road set up here.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wHyzVPEcE2S6vL726
Having the I-495 collection distributer roadway stacked beneath the main travel lanes is not common.  However, I like this set up.

I'm guessing the upper level was added and the c/d roadway below it was the original alignment for the Horace Harding Expressway.

Roadman65, you are correct about the history. Original Expwy built circa 1955, and the viaduct above it was built as part of the rebuilt interchange with I-278 (BQE) around 1970. The original interchange was a very inadequate standard 1950's cloverleaf and was jammed up from the day it opened.

And having been a new driver at the time of the rebuilding, I gotta say that new upper level and modern interchange was magnificent in the early 1970's. !

It says something interesting philosophy-wise that this was double-decked to minimize impacts on a cemetery... but for plenty of other projects, DOTs don't blink an eye about relocating living people by knocking down their houses to widen a highway.

Well in Newark, NJ they had eminent domain remove part of a cemetery to get the Garden State Parkway built hence the same cemetery on both sides the freeway between CR 510 and Maybaum Avenue.


However, you are right. Humans place priorities in the wrong places. They have no problem relocating live humans when a freeway needs building, but the dead ( and animal habitats) can't be touched.

[SignBridge]

Surprised they were able to do that even in the 1950's when Eminent Domain ruled. In that era maybe New Jerseyans were really desperate for new highways to relieve the congestion from the explosive post WW II growth, so maybe even moving a cemetery wasn't out of the question at that time. 

[Rothman]