Ideas Exclusive To One State That Should Epand Cross-Country...

[TheStranger]

In all serious, regarding the other discussion about BGSs giving the route number, a street name, and destinations, here's an example from Northern Virginia. The road referenced on the sign is one where some people call it by name and some call it by number (and then I recall a friend's father referring to it as "Lert," as in the initials "LRT"), so having both the name and number is helpful.

Kentucky does something similar that I really, really like too, maybe a bit more Chicago-inspired in its small text for the road name (maybe so that the control city can be emphasized)

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.1180045,-85.7418641,3a,19.7y,276.86h,94.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa4P7_y6oRwjB4_wlpewXVQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Da4P7_y6oRwjB4_wlpewXVQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D276.8591371930399%26pitch%3D-4.494966443478191%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

[Big John]

I also like what WisDOT does for smaller cities that have multiple exits. I know a lot of state do this but that should be in every state doing it.
Sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4698148,-88.9949365,3a,15y,35.84h,90.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D35.84121754094059%26pitch%3D-0.395321557667188%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

And yes the sign is in Illinois but it is a WisDOT sign.

and no mention that the Wis 81 exit is also for I-43??????

[rhen_var]

They're not states, but I really like how in Ontario and Quebec the exits to the US list the Interstate highways they connect to across the border on the exit signs.  Ok the US side they should do the same - I-94 TO ON-402, I-190 TO ON-405, the Gordie Howe Bridge exit should have an ON-401 shield and the Peace Bridge a QEW shield.

[Scott5114]

The mentality I've brought up here for over a decade remains the same, especially seeing California's piecemeal route decommissioning - the originaly point of route numbering is navigational help, and using it specifically for that purpose should be more important than using numbering to show who maintains a road. 

The problem is that cities generally can't be trusted to competently sign state routes. So even if you did say "state routes can be maintained by cities"...well, they probably still wouldn't be signed as numbered routes because the cities won't maintain the signs.

[vdeane]

I also like what WisDOT does for smaller cities that have multiple exits. I know a lot of state do this but that should be in every state doing it.
Sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4698148,-88.9949365,3a,15y,35.84h,90.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D35.84121754094059%26pitch%3D-0.395321557667188%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

And yes the sign is in Illinois but it is a WisDOT sign.

Isn't there a sign like that in the MUTCD?  Here's one from New York.  Pennsylvania is full of them too.

[TheStranger]

The mentality I've brought up here for over a decade remains the same, especially seeing California's piecemeal route decommissioning - the originaly point of route numbering is navigational help, and using it specifically for that purpose should be more important than using numbering to show who maintains a road. 

The problem is that cities generally can't be trusted to competently sign state routes. So even if you did say "state routes can be maintained by cities"...well, they probably still wouldn't be signed as numbered routes because the cities won't maintain the signs.

I feel like California's usual solution is "just get rid of the street-running state route" (i.e. Routes 209 and 274 in San Diego).  I can see that as an alternative to, say, how NV 604 used to be signed on the old Las Vegas paper maps from the California State Automobile Association, yet was not reflective of real-life at all.

that being said:

- can't really do that with US 101, regardless of SFMTA/MUNI's neglect of the old trailblazer shield postings since 2020
- California's "signs denote maintenance" means that route and navigational importance for surface roads can become wacky, i.e. why does Route 221 - an important connector in the Napa area - have less trailblazer signing than Route 77 in Oakland, an oft-forgotten short segment of an otherwise canceled freeway project.


The one amusing counter-example here to the "cities won't sign routes" deal is how Fairfield has plastered so many Historic US 40 signs along Texas Street!  (And arguably the community-provided historic US 66 signage along Foothill Boulevard in San Bernardino County thereabouts surpasses the level of signage of most non-freeway state routes as well)

[Henry]

They're not states, but I really like how in Ontario and Quebec the exits to the US list the Interstate highways they connect to across the border on the exit signs.  Ok the US side they should do the same - I-94 TO ON-402, I-190 TO ON-405, the Gordie Howe Bridge exit should have an ON-401 shield and the Peace Bridge a QEW shield.

While we're on the subject of Canada, I like how ON plasters its tourism logo on the top right corner of its VMS's:



That's definitely something I'd like to see here in America!

[Rothman]

Ick.  I've always thought Canadian signage is pretty lousy.

[pderocco]

The one amusing counter-example here to the "cities won't sign routes" deal is how Fairfield has plastered so many Historic US 40 signs along Texas Street!

I noticed that recently. It's the case in Vallejo, Cordelia, Rockville, Fairfield, Vacaville, and Dixon. I didn't see much signage in Davis or further east. But the signs all have tags below them saying "In memory of", "Sponsored by", etc., so it's clear that it's because people are paying to put them up. It may even be done by some historical society, and not the cities. I also noticed that they are all black and white, not brown and white.

(Added note: This is in California.)

[mrsman]

I like the way CA uses thick "elephant tracks" to denote a lane that will force a turn at some soon point.
While this seems to be a relatively common application, I do appreciate that in several places, there is a lot of warning distance, and that seems to be unique to CA.

A similar application involves the "THRU TRAFFIC MERGE LEFT" sign which also doesn't appear everywhere.

Here is an old picture of La Brea Ave in L.A. (pre-bus lane) showing warnings of the right turn lane coming to an end at Sunset Blvd, 1/4 mile away.:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.094581,-118.3440457,3a,75y,3.2h,78.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sI3tCwSQxNxAncQ4h5hXOJw!2e0!5s20211101T000000!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu

Here are elephant tracks on Jefferson Blvd in L.A. warning that the left lane will force a left onto the freeway onramp in about 1/2 mile.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9851211,-118.4031152,3a,75y,63.49h,104.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3f4quwEpZ5r2aygVRX9xFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu

In my area, I wish there were similar warnings that the left lane on Georgia Ave forces a turn onto MD-200 (a toll road) in advance, but the only signs are a short distance before the interchange.  Not enough time to merge away when it is busy.

[pderocco]

I've never heard of "elephant tracks". MUTCD calls them dotted lane lines, which provide "warning of a downstream change in lane function." I think that such lanes are long in places where they have long backups in rush hour. That's certainly what I've observed on freeways. It's more to encourage people to get into the lane early enough, rather than to get out of the lane.

[hobsini2]

I also like what WisDOT does for smaller cities that have multiple exits. I know a lot of state do this but that should be in every state doing it.
Sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4698148,-88.9949365,3a,15y,35.84h,90.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D35.84121754094059%26pitch%3D-0.395321557667188%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

And yes the sign is in Illinois but it is a WisDOT sign.

and no mention that the Wis 81 exit is also for I-43??????

Well considering that 81 is the way into Beloit and 43 is not, I can see why they did not put it on there. They did the same thing in Madison ages ago for 30/94. And they did not change it when they put the new sign in.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0284901,-89.2572928,3a,75y,332.55h,88.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTGB27URWUnMBgrk0NUN7sw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DTGB27URWUnMBgrk0NUN7sw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D332.5542001914858%26pitch%3D1.3796492438782053%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

[hobsini2]

I also like what WisDOT does for smaller cities that have multiple exits. I know a lot of state do this but that should be in every state doing it.
Sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4698148,-88.9949365,3a,15y,35.84h,90.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D35.84121754094059%26pitch%3D-0.395321557667188%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

And yes the sign is in Illinois but it is a WisDOT sign.

Isn't there a sign like that in the MUTCD?  Here's one from New York.  Pennsylvania is full of them too.

It may be. But I know it is not as widely used as it should be. For instance, I know Indiana does not do this for places like Lafayette and South Bend when they should.

[Scott5114]

I imagine there are a few other cities that are like this, so "exclusive" might be overselling it, but I really wish more cities would adopt backlit street signage to the extent Las Vegas has. I'm used to only seeing them in select corridors, but in Vegas they are used at just about every single signalized intersection.

[TheStranger]

I imagine there are a few other cities that are like this, so "exclusive" might be overselling it, but I really wish more cities would adopt backlit street signage to the extent Las Vegas has. I'm used to only seeing them in select corridors, but in Vegas they are used at just about every single signalized intersection.

As long as the backlighting is maintained!

We have some formerly backlit BGSes from the 1960s in San Francisco for I-80 east...that have not had their lighting adjusted at all in decades:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779028,-122.4002709,3a,75y,348.73h,97.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D348.7255161774147%26pitch%3D-7.155781090405995%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

[vdeane]

It may be. But I know it is not as widely used as it should be. For instance, I know Indiana does not do this for places like Lafayette and South Bend when they should.

It might be spreading; I know the locations in New York that have them are relatively recent (within the last decade).

[StogieGuy7]

I imagine there are a few other cities that are like this, so "exclusive" might be overselling it, but I really wish more cities would adopt backlit street signage to the extent Las Vegas has. I'm used to only seeing them in select corridors, but in Vegas they are used at just about every single signalized intersection.

As long as the backlighting is maintained!

We have some formerly backlit BGSes from the 1960s in San Francisco for I-80 east...that have not had their lighting adjusted at all in decades:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779028,-122.4002709,3a,75y,348.73h,97.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D348.7255161774147%26pitch%3D-7.155781090405995%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

That sign must have looked amazing when it was brand new! I agree, the problem is that such signs are not maintained properly in the USA. Other countries, on the other hand, do take good care of backlit signs and they look sharp.

[andrepoiy]

They're not states, but I really like how in Ontario and Quebec the exits to the US list the Interstate highways they connect to across the border on the exit signs.  Ok the US side they should do the same - I-94 TO ON-402, I-190 TO ON-405, the Gordie Howe Bridge exit should have an ON-401 shield and the Peace Bridge a QEW shield.

While we're on the subject of Canada, I like how ON plasters its tourism logo on the top right corner of its VMS's:



That's definitely something I'd like to see here in America!

That's the (now former) logo of the government of Ontario.

Here's the current one:





This is the tourism logo:

[Scott5114]

I imagine there are a few other cities that are like this, so "exclusive" might be overselling it, but I really wish more cities would adopt backlit street signage to the extent Las Vegas has. I'm used to only seeing them in select corridors, but in Vegas they are used at just about every single signalized intersection.

As long as the backlighting is maintained!

We have some formerly backlit BGSes from the 1960s in San Francisco for I-80 east...that have not had their lighting adjusted at all in decades:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779028,-122.4002709,3a,75y,348.73h,97.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D348.7255161774147%26pitch%3D-7.155781090405995%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

That sign must have looked amazing when it was brand new! I agree, the problem is that such signs are not maintained properly in the USA. Other countries, on the other hand, do take good care of backlit signs and they look sharp.

Vegas is pretty good at maintaining ours. I've only seen one or two signs not working in the time I've been living here.

Besides, these days, with LEDs, the maintenance required is pretty low.

[thenetwork]

I imagine there are a few other cities that are like this, so "exclusive" might be overselling it, but I really wish more cities would adopt backlit street signage to the extent Las Vegas has. I'm used to only seeing them in select corridors, but in Vegas they are used at just about every single signalized intersection.

As long as the backlighting is maintained!

We have some formerly backlit BGSes from the 1960s in San Francisco for I-80 east...that have not had their lighting adjusted at all in decades:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779028,-122.4002709,3a,75y,348.73h,97.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D348.7255161774147%26pitch%3D-7.155781090405995%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

That sign must have looked amazing when it was brand new! I agree, the problem is that such signs are not maintained properly in the USA. Other countries, on the other hand, do take good care of backlit signs and they look sharp.

Vegas is pretty good at maintaining ours. I've only seen one or two signs not working in the time I've been living here.

Besides, these days, with LEDs, the maintenance required is pretty low.

In my neck of the woods, my town recently scrapped all of their back-lit overhead street blades with oversized reflective street blades.  One, because they now sport the city's new logo, and two, because most of the back-lit signs were well over 20 years old.  They even scrapped the newer LED lit signs.

[hobsini2]

I imagine there are a few other cities that are like this, so "exclusive" might be overselling it, but I really wish more cities would adopt backlit street signage to the extent Las Vegas has. I'm used to only seeing them in select corridors, but in Vegas they are used at just about every single signalized intersection.

As long as the backlighting is maintained!

We have some formerly backlit BGSes from the 1960s in San Francisco for I-80 east...that have not had their lighting adjusted at all in decades:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779028,-122.4002709,3a,75y,348.73h,97.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dx_Jurvr-6005ShBiPvu65w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D348.7255161774147%26pitch%3D-7.155781090405995%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

That sign must have looked amazing when it was brand new! I agree, the problem is that such signs are not maintained properly in the USA. Other countries, on the other hand, do take good care of backlit signs and they look sharp.

Vegas is pretty good at maintaining ours. I've only seen one or two signs not working in the time I've been living here.

Besides, these days, with LEDs, the maintenance required is pretty low.

In my neck of the woods, my town recently scrapped all of their back-lit overhead street blades with oversized reflective street blades.  One, because they now sport the city's new logo, and two, because most of the back-lit signs were well over 20 years old.  They even scrapped the newer LED lit signs.

Every signalized intersection except for the I-55 ramps have backlit overhead street blades in Bolingbrook. And I do know they replace the bulbs and the sign stickers regularly. They recently did it at Route 53 and Briarcliff Rd because it was showing cracks.

[Scott5114]

In my neck of the woods, my town recently scrapped all of their back-lit overhead street blades with oversized reflective street blades.  One, because they now sport the city's new logo, and two, because most of the back-lit signs were well over 20 years old.  They even scrapped the newer LED lit signs.

Your town sounds kinda lame.

Some of Las Vegas's units date back to at least the late 1980s, based on historical photographs. They remain in good working order; the biggest problem they face is the panels starting to crack and fade, so they just replace those periodically and keep the housing. (Clark County seems to have replaced just about all of the panels under county jurisdiction to follow the 2009 MUTCD.)

[mgk920]

I also like what WisDOT does for smaller cities that have multiple exits. I know a lot of state do this but that should be in every state doing it.
Sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4698148,-88.9949365,3a,15y,35.84h,90.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DLHsNP7TpPt-556jlAyO6-Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D35.84121754094059%26pitch%3D-0.395321557667188%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

And yes the sign is in Illinois but it is a WisDOT sign.

and no mention that the Wis 81 exit is also for I-43??????

I-43 does not go into Beloit from NB I-39-90.

Mike

[Big John]

^^ I feel those signs are indications of the following 3 exits and the top line was just additional info that those exits also serve that city.  My view is that they should have the full info of each exit, even if part of it doesn't directly serve the city mentioned on the tab.

[wanderer2575]

^^ I feel those signs are indications of the following 3 exits and the top line was just additional info that those exits also serve that city.  My view is that they should have the full info of each exit, even if part of it doesn't directly serve the city mentioned on the tab.

The top line is not additional info; it indicates the purpose of the entire sign:  These are the exits to use to access Beloit.  If the purpose of the sign were to indicate all upcoming exits regardless of where they serve, the top line would be omitted altogether.