State Lays Out Vision for U.S. 23 Corridor Through Central Ohio

Started by rte66man, June 18, 2024, 09:14:23 AM

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TempoNick

Excellent post. I am thinking about sending it to the Ohio House of Representatives Transportation Committee members in the affected districts. This really is stupid, shoddy, third rate and something really does need to be done about it.


KelleyCook

#51
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 27, 2024, 01:34:24 PMThey can and should do the same to provide an alternate route for I-75/US 23 in this area, if it is needed.

There is a time and a place where US Highways are useful as alternate routes, if they are consistent in quality. Nevada had the right idea to move US 395 to I-580, because that way it is consistent in quality as the thru north-south route people take. There is also a signed alternate that is useful for motorists in the event of an emergency or if they simply choose not to take the freeway--the point is that the thru route is very clearly designated and consistently numbered.

I completely agree.

And since we are already talking fixing US-23, I think that MDOT should redesignate the 21 miles of M-13 from Kawkawlin to Standish (as well as the 2½ mile M-13 Connector to I-75) back to US-23, rerouting it from the mainline freeway.

Huron Road is a perfectly acceptable, 5-lane alternative route that I take often on the summer Sundays when I-75 SB becomes overloaded. (Not to mention the road still has Pinconning Cheeseries and Rosie's Pies).

It would be good for out of staters to be able to feel more comfortable on it as most folks feel U.S. Roads have more panache than a state road. Road geeks know better, but this change wouldn't be for them.

TempoNick


GCrites

Preliminary Delaware County Feasability Study is out: https://publicinput.com/q554343

There's a lot to look at so take your time. Lots of RIROs is all I can say.

Black-Man

I saw a news segment on the release and they seemed to think only those projects with a PID and Tier 1 would be addressed in the near future, which means Coover Rd and Troutman Rd. Big shocker. Those are both north of Delaware, have plenty of ROW to work with and more importantly... will encounter the least resistance from the populace.

I did notice an important section, Lewis Center Rd, a Tier 1 without a PID had a caveat where the eventual configuration was dependent on the Home Rd interchange which tells me they are a package deal. A $170mil package deal. Neither has a PID. 

GCrites

Oh yeah the number of meetings with businesses represented -- especially big chains -- are likely to slow the proceedings big time in built-up areas.

seicer

It's not the worst concept and is likely the most affordable option for the state with the least resistance. South of Delaware, the plan adds a through lane, overpasses at major junctions with ramps, right-in/right-out (RIRO) access for all driveways and side roads, additional U-turn movements, and a fixed barrier closing all median openings. 

While these designs typically increase speeds, I worry they may not reduce accidents as much as expected. Higher speeds combined with turning traffic often lead to more severe crashes. They function well until traffic volumes increase—similar road designs in New Jersey can become chaotic. 

From the map, it's unclear how many interchanges are planned or the spacing between exits. Do you have more details on that?

GCrites

^So it's a little weird,I think the yellow boxes and triangles with signals are interchanges in the Executive Summary. Triangles are probably diamonds. I hope the boxes aren't cloverleafs.

TempoNick

No offense, guys. ODOT can't even get their signmaking shop fixed and you expect me to trust their decision-making skills when it comes to dozens of RIRO's being the answer?

:-D

Chillicothe Pike and US 35, Jackson, Ohio


TempoNick

Quote from: seicer on February 20, 2025, 09:49:51 AMIt's not the worst concept and is likely the most affordable option for the state with the least resistance. South of Delaware, the plan adds a through lane, overpasses at major junctions with ramps, right-in/right-out (RIRO) access for all driveways and side roads, additional U-turn movements, and a fixed barrier closing all median openings.

While these designs typically increase speeds, I worry they may not reduce accidents as much as expected. Higher speeds combined with turning traffic often lead to more severe crashes. They function well until traffic volumes increase—similar road designs in New Jersey can become chaotic.

From the map, it's unclear how many interchanges are planned or the spacing between exits. Do you have more details on that?

I just concluded a whirlwind tour of Southeastern Ohio taking US 23 down to Chillicothe, then US 35 to Jackson and Wellston, OH 93 to Logan and then US 33 back home.

Just a roadgeek's observations:

1. US 23 - The 50 mph sections are unacceptable. That thing should be four lane freeway at least to South Bloomfield and my preference would be to Chillicothe.

2. US 35 - why has there never been a westbound US 35 offramp from US 35. I understand the surface roads probably work, but this is just sloppy work. I don't understand why you would build a nice highway and not build that at the same time. But then again, these are the RIRO people.

3. US 35 to Jackson is a nice stretch of road. I wonder why they didn't remove all the at grade crossings in that stretch between Richmond Dale and just before Jackson. I just don't like those at grade crossings because of the terrain. I don't think they are very safe. At the very least, they should put up some led lights at the crossings for night time travel.

4. US 35/OH 32 to Wellston - no complaints other than the fact that it would be nice to have an interchange between US 35 and OH 32.

5. OH 93 - No complaints. It's curvy and tight in places, but I don't expect two lane roads out in the boonies to be designed perfectly. I do expect perfection from the four-lane roads!

6. US 33 from Logan to Columbus - I think there is too much traffic. The entire thing should be freeway from Logan to Columbus. Entering/exiting the rest area is dangerous. Again, they need to at least light up all the at-grade crossings. I don't know if that would interfere with seeing cars coming, but it just seems very dark.

Logan rest area was pretty creepy. Maybe I'm just paranoid because of what used to go on at the old Lancaster rest area.  :-D


JREwing78

Quote from: TempoNick on February 22, 2025, 08:39:54 PM2. US 35 - why has there never been a westbound US 35 offramp from US 35. I understand the surface roads probably work, but this is just sloppy work. I don't understand why you would build a nice highway and not build that at the same time. But then again, these are the RIRO people.
I presume you mean SBD US-23 to WBD US-35 in Chillicothe. Otherwise, that statement made no sense.

1960's era ODOT likely found that movement to not be warranted due to lack of traffic that was expected. Even now, there's no signage advising WBD US-35 traffic how to exit US-23. They can exit one exit early at Bus US-23 or one exit late at Western Ave (US 50 West) and re-enter WBD US-35.

The US-35 interchange with BUS US-23 is also pretty short-spaced to the US-23/35 interchange and would only have about 1000' of weave/merge space for SBD US-23 traffic to enter and BUS US-23-bound traffic to exit without grade-separating the two movements.

To do this correctly, they would need to overpass the WBD exit to Bus US-23 (including over the railroad tracks), then widen the Bus US-23 overpass and provide a weave/merge area for traffic entering WBD US-35. Those additional lanes would have to continue west over the Scicto River to become weave/merge lanes for the interchange at OH-104 to allow enough distance for drivers to complete the movements. That's a lot of expensive bridgework to safely manage what I presume to be very light traffic.

TempoNick

Maybe, but it's still half-assed. Screw 104. If any southbound connection should be circuitous, that should be the one. Like I said, it's a nice stretch of highway overall, but they always seem to do some half-assed thing like that.


PColumbus73

I grew up in Chillicothe and never really thought much about it. I'm of the opinion that incomplete interchanges are fine if traffic volumes don't warrant the movements.

If the US 23/35 bypass were being built today, I could see the argument of trumpeting US 35 into US 23 given the amount traffic there is on Bridge Street. But I also don't think it needs to be treated as an urgent fix. The OH 104 / 207 connection is a bit bulbous, but it isn't terrible. Most of the people who would use 23 South to 35 West or the reverse would be local traffic or people who live in southwest Ross County.

If anything, I think OH 207 could be replaced with OH 180 now that it connects between 104 and 159, maybe add a new route or extend OH 180 or 28 along Veterans Pkwy, Pleasant Valley and Moundsville Road to connect US 50 to 104.

GCrites

I imagine most people from out of town heed the signs and use 207/104 to get to 35 west since they don't idealize alternate scenarios. It mostly irks locals and roadgeeks that know that the direct connection is missing.


GCrites

South Bloomfield Set to Begin Major US 23 Widening Project

SOUTH BLOOMFIELD, OH – A long-awaited infrastructure improvement project is set to begin in South Bloomfield, as crews prepare to widen US 23 to enhance traffic flow and safety. The project, made possible through funding from the Ohio Public Works Commission, the Pickaway County Traffic Improvement District, and state legislative initiatives, is expected to be completed by September 29, 2025.

https://www.sciotopost.com/south-bloomfield-set-to-begin-major-us-23-widening-project/

I was there Monday and it must just be the utility work starting as traffic was not affected. I didn't see anything going on despite the start date being February 17. But get ready to avoid the area as going down to two lanes will back up traffic a lot as seen a couple months ago when other utility work closed lanes.

Remember this is not the bypass but rather the Concept 2 from the 2006 plan. Both are still planned as they do not affect each other from a construction standpoint.

Great Lakes Roads

-Jay Seaburg

Molandfreak

It's hilarious that they have plenty of video footage of the other bottleneck along US 23 thrown in there, which only requires moving it to SR 15 and I-75...
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

thenetwork

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on March 12, 2025, 09:06:21 PMhttps://www.13abc.com/2025/03/12/odot-turnpike-could-be-forced-come-up-with-us-23-alternative-toledocolumbus-route/

What do we have here? Another feasibility study for US 23!

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on March 12, 2025, 09:06:21 PMhttps://www.13abc.com/2025/03/12/odot-turnpike-could-be-forced-come-up-with-us-23-alternative-toledocolumbus-route/

What do we have here? Another feasibility study for US 23!

I never had OHIO TURNPIKE COMMISSION or TOLL ROAD on my US-23 Alternative Bingo Card, nor did I ever think of a possibility of having an Ohio Turnpike "spur" in Central Ohio, especially since its been about 70 years since the Ohio Turnpike, I-71, and the lower half of Ohio were mentioned in the same breath.

But I will say, if anyone can make a highway bypass around the US-23 mess from Delaware happen -- Hell, if anyone can make a FULL I-73 interstate between Toledo and Columbus,

webny99

Quote from: thenetwork on March 13, 2025, 08:40:37 AMBut I will say, if anyone can make a highway bypass around the US-23 mess from Delaware happen -- Hell, if anyone can make a FULL I-73 interstate between Toledo and Columbus,

Now there's a cliffhanger!  :popcorn:


I think any connector built on a new alignment should take a NW/SE routing from I-71 just north of US 36 to Waldo.


thenetwork

#70
Quote from: webny99 on March 13, 2025, 11:46:56 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on March 13, 2025, 08:40:37 AMBut I will say, if anyone can make a highway bypass around the US-23 mess from Delaware happen -- Hell, if anyone can make a FULL I-73 interstate between Toledo and Columbus,

Now there's a cliffhanger!  :popcorn:


I think any connector built on a new alignment should take a NW/SE routing from I-71 just north of US 36 to Waldo.


I wouldn't mind the Turnpike fully upgrade/build and toll not only the stretch of bypyass US-23 from a future connector to I-71, but the stretch between Carey and the I-280/I-80/I-90 junction. Then the free Toledo-Columbus alternative would remain on the existing 4-lanes of US-23/SR-15/I-75.  There would definitely be enough traffic volume on the new Toll Roads to make it profitable for the Pike.

TempoNick

Quote from: thenetwork on March 13, 2025, 01:54:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 13, 2025, 11:46:56 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on March 13, 2025, 08:40:37 AMBut I will say, if anyone can make a highway bypass around the US-23 mess from Delaware happen -- Hell, if anyone can make a FULL I-73 interstate between Toledo and Columbus,

Now there's a cliffhanger!  :popcorn:


I think any connector built on a new alignment should take a NW/SE routing from I-71 just north of US 36 to Waldo.


I wouldn't mind the Turnpike fully upgrade/build and toll not only the stretch of bypyass US-23 from a future connector to I-71, but the stretch between Carey and the I-280/I-80/I-90 junction. Then the free Toledo-Columbus alternative would remain on the existing 4-lanes of US-23/SR-15/I-75.  There would definitely be enough traffic volume on the new Toll Roads to make it profitable for the Pike.

The turnpike commission was supposed to be looking at building I-73, so I don't have any problem with this idea either. If ODOT can't get motivated to build it, let the turnpike commission build a toll road (with very limited exits) as a connector. Chicagoland has toll roads all around and they seem to do just fine with them.

TempoNick

^^^ I bet that ODOT would get off their butts and build it if they had the Turnpike Commission on their tail. You know how these agencies try to protect their turf.

carbaugh2

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on March 12, 2025, 09:06:21 PMhttps://www.13abc.com/2025/03/12/odot-turnpike-could-be-forced-come-up-with-us-23-alternative-toledocolumbus-route/

What do we have here? Another feasibility study for US 23!

The feasibility study is for the entire US 23 corridor in order to make it Interstate 73 and must be complete by December 31, 2026. There is a separate section that gives ODOT and the Turnpike Commission 3 months to design a bypass of US 23 in Delaware County from 4 options, provide 5 alternatives for those options, and determine if it is best handled by ODOT or the OTC (and whether OTC has jurisdiction).

Here is the text of the portions we care about in this forum from the bill. You can find the most current version at https://ohiosenate.gov/legislation/136/hb54.

I apologize for the length.

 Section 755.50. The Director of Transportation shall conduct a feasibility study for the creation of an Interstate Route 73 corridor connecting the municipal corporation of Toledo to the municipal corporation of Chesapeake, primarily alongside
current United States Route 23. The purpose of the new corridor is to better connect Interstate Route 74, Interstate Route 75, and the states of Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia, Virginia, North
Carolina, and South Carolina along one continuous interstate route.
The feasibility study shall examine how to alleviate
congestion along United States Route 23, the economic impacts of a new interstate corridor, safety concerns, connectivity issues, and methods for coordinating with the other states and the United States Department of Transportation for the creation of the corridor.
The Director shall complete the feasibility study not later than December 31, 2026.

Section 755.60.
(A) The Department of Transportation and the Ohio Turnpike and Infrastructure Commission shall work together to create a joint plan regarding the feasibility of connecting U.S. Route 23 to Interstate Route 71 by doing one of the following:
 (1) Expanding State Route 229 in northern Delaware County;
 (2) Expanding another similar state route or other highway in northern Delaware County;
 (3) Creating a new freeway between U.S. Route 23 and Interstate Route 71 in northern Delaware County;
 (4) Creating a toll road between U.S. Route 23 and Interstate Route 71 in northern Delaware County.
(B) As part of the plan, related to the options specified in divisions (A)(3) and (4) of this section, the Department and Commission shall prepare a preliminary engineering report that determines the most feasible routes for the new freeway or toll
road. As part of the report, the Department and Commission shall determine five potential alignments for the freeway or toll road and specify which alignment is the preferred route.
 (C) The plan shall be completed not later than three months after the effective date of this section.
 (D) As part of the plan, the Department and the Commission shall determine whether construction would be best conducted by the Department or the Commission. If construction is best conducted by the Commission, the plan also shall include whether the Commission's statutory authority is sufficient to make the project a turnpike project.
 (E) The Department and Commission shall submit their plan to the President of the Senate, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, the Minority Leaders of both the Senate and the
House of Representatives, and the chairpersons of the respective committees of the House of Representatives and Senate responsible for transportation related matters.

This isn't speculation anymore. Keep in mind that both the House Speaker and Senate President are from NW Ohio, so the language isn't there by accident. In addition, the budget unanimously passed the House, so I have trouble believing this is coming out.

Side note: I'm not bumping the I-73 thread unless the language is in the bill that gets signed. : )

PColumbus73

Quote from: TempoNick on March 13, 2025, 04:44:46 PM^^^ I bet that ODOT would get off their butts and build it if they had the Turnpike Commission on their tail. You know how these agencies try to protect their turf.

Wouldn't this be a win for ODOT? Seems like they're reluctant to convert US 23 to a freeway and it would be one less highway to maintain if it were built by the Turnpike Commission. I never considered a Columbus Spur of the Ohio Turnpike, but it makes a lot of sense for it to extend off of I-280 down to I-71.

I think it'd be better off if they abandoned the single I-73 route from Michigan to South Carolina and break it up into smaller projects. Whether that means a 'Columbus Spur' becomes the Northern I-73, or it becomes an extension of I-280.



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