The green Postmile Paddles of CA 17 in Santa Clara County

[Max Rockatansky]

In the past year I've seen numerous posts off forum regarding Caltrans District 4 apparently signing Mile Markers on CA 17 in southern Santa Clara County.  This sounded off to me given the mileage ended at the Santa Cruz County line rather than continuing. 

Recently I found myself on CA 17 headed south and had a chance to see for myself what is going on.  It seems that District 4 simply just replaced the white Postmile Paddles from SCL 0.00-3.40 with green paddles similar to Mile Markers. 

An example of a green Postmile paddles on CA 17 southbound approaching the Santa Cruz County line at Summit Road:

IMG_6867 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

What is really strange is that all the white Postmile paddles north of SCL 3.40 have been removed.  From what I can tell this might have something to do with the mostly solid concrete outer barriers present on CA 17 in Santa Clara County.  Does anyone know if this is just a fluke one-off by District 4 or part of a wider experiment to modernize Postmile paddles with something more akin to Mile Markers?

[pderocco]

I have no idea of the answer to your question, but this reminds me of something I've been wondering about. An awful lot of roads in California (and for all I know, everywhere else) aren't very well signed, including many lesser state highways. Perhaps road departments (Caltrans, counties, cities) balk at the expense, yet most roads seem to have postmiles. If they can afford postmiles every tenth of a mile, why can't they afford reassurance signs every mile? It looks like on 17, which is a freeway (more or less), they're trying this, and I've seen it on a few other freeways here and there, but those signs are enormous, and must be expensive. Why can't postmiles, at least at every whole mile, be replaced by ordinary reassurance signs with real shields, with a little extra room for the official postmile code consisting of the county abbreviation and mileage in tiny type?

[Max Rockatansky]

I should clarify, these signs are posted every 0.2 miles.  Even by conventional Postmile paddle standards that's a really high concentration.

[DTComposer]

They installed those signs as part of a larger safety improvement project around 2020-2021 that included larger and variable speed and curve warning signs. I believe the idea was to make them more obvious to motorists who need to give their location to emergency responders.

[Max Rockatansky]

They installed those signs as part of a larger safety improvement project around 2020-2021 that included larger and variable speed and curve warning signs. I believe the idea was to make them more obvious to motorists who need to give their location to emergency responders.

Right, but the purpose is defeated given they reference Santa Clara County Postmiles.  If someone calls a dispatcher and says "Mile 3 on Highway 17" that isn't going to be sufficient information.  It sounds as though whoever was in charge of the project didn't understand there is a difference between Postmiles and overall highway mileage. 

[vdeane]

This sounded off to me given the mileage ended at the Santa Cruz County line rather than continuing.

There are states that reset mileage for non-interstate routes at county lines.  Notably, US 41 in Kentucky has exit numbers that count from a county line, and NY's milepoint system resets at county lines too (it's mostly internal, but the mile markers on NY 5 west of Buffalo are from the Erie/Chautauqua County Line).

[Max Rockatansky]

This sounded off to me given the mileage ended at the Santa Cruz County line rather than continuing.

There are states that reset mileage for non-interstate routes at county lines.  Notably, US 41 in Kentucky has exit numbers that count from a county line, and NY's milepoint system resets at county lines too (it's mostly internal, but the mile markers on NY 5 west of Buffalo are from the Erie/Chautauqua County Line).

Nevada has been doing that lately on some major highways also.  The Mile Markers were reflecting the county they were in. Unlike the example on CA 17 the Nevada installs include the County abbreviation. 

As seen on US 95 north of Winnemucca:

https://flic.kr/p/2mnaQ3p

[DTComposer]

They installed those signs as part of a larger safety improvement project around 2020-2021 that included larger and variable speed and curve warning signs. I believe the idea was to make them more obvious to motorists who need to give their location to emergency responders.

Right, but the purpose is defeated given they reference Santa Clara County Postmiles.  If someone calls a dispatcher and says "Mile 3 on Highway 17" that isn't going to be sufficient information.  It sounds as though whoever was in charge of the project didn't understand there is a difference between Postmiles and overall highway mileage. 

Good point. As much as everyone wants the road to be safer, there does seem to be some disconnect because it straddles counties and Caltrans districts.

[ClassicHasClass]

This sounded off to me given the mileage ended at the Santa Cruz County line rather than continuing.

There are states that reset mileage for non-interstate routes at county lines.  Notably, US 41 in Kentucky has exit numbers that count from a county line, and NY's milepoint system resets at county lines too (it's mostly internal, but the mile markers on NY 5 west of Buffalo are from the Erie/Chautauqua County Line).

Nevada has been doing that lately on some major highways also.  The Mile Markers were reflecting the county they were in. Unlike the example on CA 17 the Nevada installs include the County abbreviation. 

As seen on US 95 north of Winnemucca:

https://flic.kr/p/2mnaQ3p

Pretty sure that's been standard in Nevada since the 1978 renumbering (unless you mean something else). There are green MUTCD mileposts around also, largely Interstates, I believe.

[Max Rockatansky]

This sounded off to me given the mileage ended at the Santa Cruz County line rather than continuing.

There are states that reset mileage for non-interstate routes at county lines.  Notably, US 41 in Kentucky has exit numbers that count from a county line, and NY's milepoint system resets at county lines too (it's mostly internal, but the mile markers on NY 5 west of Buffalo are from the Erie/Chautauqua County Line).

Nevada has been doing that lately on some major highways also.  The Mile Markers were reflecting the county they were in. Unlike the example on CA 17 the Nevada installs include the County abbreviation. 

As seen on US 95 north of Winnemucca:

https://flic.kr/p/2mnaQ3p

Pretty sure that's been standard in Nevada since the 1978 renumbering (unless you mean something else). There are green MUTCD mileposts around also, largely Interstates, I believe.

I remember something about 58 having Mile Markers around Tehachapi Pass recently. 

With Nevada, the Postmile paddles have been a thing for awhile.  I don't recall the Enhanced Mile Markers appearing until recently.

[roadfro]

This sounded off to me given the mileage ended at the Santa Cruz County line rather than continuing.

There are states that reset mileage for non-interstate routes at county lines.  Notably, US 41 in Kentucky has exit numbers that count from a county line, and NY's milepoint system resets at county lines too (it's mostly internal, but the mile markers on NY 5 west of Buffalo are from the Erie/Chautauqua County Line).

Nevada has been doing that lately on some major highways also.  The Mile Markers were reflecting the county they were in. Unlike the example on CA 17 the Nevada installs include the County abbreviation. 

As seen on US 95 north of Winnemucca:

https://flic.kr/p/2mnaQ3p

Pretty sure that's been standard in Nevada since the 1978 renumbering (unless you mean something else). There are green MUTCD mileposts around also, largely Interstates, I believe.

I remember something about 58 having Mile Markers around Tehachapi Pass recently. 

With Nevada, the Postmile paddles have been a thing for awhile.  I don't recall the Enhanced Mile Markers appearing until recently.

Nevada's "Enhanced Milepost" first appeared in some trial installations nearly 10 years ago, going by the date I created the 'New style of mileposts in test trials on Nevada highways' thread. Within a short time frame, these became the standard for delineating the integer-value rural milepost locations on all non-interstate routes. They are not yet system-wide, but old style mileposts are being replaced with the enhanced versions during virtually all roadway enhancement, pavement rehabilitation, and sign replacement projects. (NDOT is also employing MUTCD-style Enhanced Reference Location Panels [aka green milemarkers with shields] along Interstate highways during similar improvements...a policy decision adopted simultaneously.)

CalTrans should have borrowed this application from NDOT to implement enhanced postmiles for CA 17... I think the NDOT enhanced milepost could be easily adapted for decimal values and retain the county designator.

[ClassicHasClass]

I remember something about 58 having Mile Markers around Tehachapi Pass recently. 

I was just over the Tehachapi Pass yesterday on EB CA 58 and didn't notice any, but I wasn't really looking for any either (trying to avoid the semis).