Road Rage

[jakeroot]

I remember driving somewhere in rural Virginia, some Interstate. There were signs saying "right lane closed ahead". I kept going to the merge area, with a handful of other cars. Left lane was backed up for miles. Right lane was going basically the speed limit.

The lane never ended. It was wrong. Probably saved us an hour of queuing.

I have vowed ever since to never acknowledge those signs, until the actual taper.

[kkt]

The zipper concept has been in widespread use in work zones for well over a decade now. Everyone on the road should know what it is and how it works.

Does not follow.  Most drivers get their licenses in their teens and then never get any sort of driver education or testing again for the rest of their lives.

[Rothman]

The zipper concept has been in widespread use in work zones for well over a decade now. Everyone on the road should know what it is and how it works.

Does not follow.  Most drivers get their licenses in their teens and then never get any sort of driver education or testing again for the rest of their lives.

So?

[kkt]

The zipper concept has been in widespread use in work zones for well over a decade now. Everyone on the road should know what it is and how it works.

Does not follow.  Most drivers get their licenses in their teens and then never get any sort of driver education or testing again for the rest of their lives.

So?

So, they're not going to find out in any organized way about the wonders of the zipper merge.

[Rothman]

The zipper concept has been in widespread use in work zones for well over a decade now. Everyone on the road should know what it is and how it works.

Does not follow.  Most drivers get their licenses in their teens and then never get any sort of driver education or testing again for the rest of their lives.

So?

So, they're not going to find out in any organized way about the wonders of the zipper merge.

Probably should train people better, then.

[webny99]

So, they're not going to find out in any organized way about the wonders of the zipper merge.

Probably should train people better, then.

That's arguably what state DOT's are trying to do by actively campaigning for it, including on their web pages, on VMS signage, and even on physical work zone signage, as in 1995hoo's photo.

[Scott5114]

Has anyone actually ever been shot at?  I've had three knives and pair of brass knuckles pulled on me at work.  Those all involved people who were actively committing crimes and three had felony warrants.  I'm not saying that it "never" has happened, but being shot at due to partaking in a zipper merge seems high improbable.

Not personally, but I've seen enough gunplay incidents reported in the OKC news that I feel like discretion is advised, at least in that area. I hardly ever even use the horn—too likely to trigger someone.

Either way, the zipper merge simply *not being actively promoted by a state DOT* doesn't nullify the concept or its purpose, nor does it mean it's something drivers shouldn't be aware of.

I think this may be a bit of Northeastern bias in play here. The states west of the Mississippi are way bigger than you think they are—if I hopped on US-95 northbound I wouldn't leave Nevada (and thus see any DOT practice besides NDOT) for nine hours. Now, that's a kind of extreme example since Las Vegas is at the south end of the state, but even in Oklahoma, which is quite a bit smaller, the largest metro area is at least 100 miles away from a state line in any direction; people are definitely not leaving the state on a whim. As a result, most people in Oklahoma don't leave Oklahoma on a regular enough basis to even be aware of what other DOTs are doing, much less become familiar with their work zone practices.

And in fact, the situation is not just that ODOT doesn't promote zipper merging... zipper merging is actually illegal in Oklahoma! And check out the signage—that's standard workzone signage there!

Serious question, how do you know if you're right to or not?

Most of the time, I've seen late mergers trapped at the cones as a solid train of traffic trundles past them with nobody letting them in. (This is, again, based on Oklahoma. I don't yet have enough experience in Nevada work zones to know what the culture is like here. I don't have high hopes, though, given that in Las Vegas, stoplights are treated as mere suggestions, as though they were advisory speed signs that happen to come in fun colors. Oh, and license plates are apparently optional.)

[jakeroot]

And in fact, the situation is not just that ODOT doesn't promote zipper merging... zipper merging is actually illegal in Oklahoma! And check out the signage—that's standard workzone signage there!

Hmmm...7+ year old article and zero laws cited. Black-on-white signage may be enforceable, fine, but I'm not aware of any state statutes requiring merging the moment "lane ends" signs appear. In fact, as far as I know, most of the time the onus is simply on the ending lane to yield at the taper.

[1995hoo]

Regarding whether people should learn about it, consider how many people living in states with flashing yellow arrows don't understand them. I've seen multiple people who simply will not turn while the arrow is flashing, period, regardless of there being absolutely nobody coming in the other direction and regardless of people stuck behind them honking. As kkt correctly notes:

Does not follow.  Most drivers get their licenses in their teens and then never get any sort of driver education or testing again for the rest of their lives.

So you get entirely too many people who operate along the lines of, "This is what I learned in 1969. Anyone who does otherwise is wrong." One problem with that is that some things that are now widespread or standard, like antilock brakes, didn't exist in 1969, so learning something back then is not helpful today.

[webny99]

Either way, the zipper merge simply *not being actively promoted by a state DOT* doesn't nullify the concept or its purpose, nor does it mean it's something drivers shouldn't be aware of.

I think this may be a bit of Northeastern bias in play here. The states west of the Mississippi are way bigger than you think they are—if I hopped on US-95 northbound I wouldn't leave Nevada (and thus see any DOT practice besides NDOT) for nine hours. Now, that's a kind of extreme example since Las Vegas is at the south end of the state, but even in Oklahoma, which is quite a bit smaller, the largest metro area is at least 100 miles away from a state line in any direction; people are definitely not leaving the state on a whim. As a result, most people in Oklahoma don't leave Oklahoma on a regular enough basis to even be aware of what other DOTs are doing, much less become familiar with their work zone practices.

I think arguably the bigger factor is that said large states are simply a lot less populous, and the population they do have is a lot more spread out, so work zones are less likely to create major backup issues to begin with. Early merging works fine until it doesn't - and the time period when it doesn't could be 12+ hours a day on a major interstate east of the Mississippi, while it's likely to be a more intermittent issue in a state like Oklahoma, especially outside of OKC/Tulsa.

Serious question, how do you know if you're right to or not?

Most of the time, I've seen late mergers trapped at the cones as a solid train of traffic trundles past them with nobody letting them in. (This is, again, based on Oklahoma.

This definitely seems like a cultural thing - and I wouldn't be shocked if it is related to less willingness to engage with other drivers due to higher rates of gun ownership and concealed carry.

In the Bos-Wash corridor in particular drivers are too aggressive to let that happen - in heavy traffic taking turns at the merge is the expectation and if it's unclear, whoever is pushier gets in first. But no one would ever come to a complete stop because of being unable to merge - they'd never get anywhere if they did.

I don't yet have enough experience in Nevada work zones to know what the culture is like here. I don't have high hopes, though, given that in Las Vegas, stoplights are treated as mere suggestions, as though they were advisory speed signs that happen to come in fun colors. Oh, and license plates are apparently optional.)

Based on the other behaviors you describe, it seems more likely that late mergers would either take turns or push their way in rather than get stuck at the merge point. To a certain extent, the bigger the city the more aggressive the drivers tend to be.

[Rothman]

Wherever people do not turn when the opposing lane is clear with a flashing yellow arrow, that is a place where responsibilities on the local citizenry should be reduced, for they have proven themselves to be buffoons.

[1995hoo]

Wherever people do not turn when the opposing lane is clear with a flashing yellow arrow, that is a place where responsibilities on the local citizenry should be reduced, for they have proven themselves to be buffoons.

I would certainly just pull out (if possible) and go around said person and make my turn. If the traffic is too heavy to allow that, well, at least the fact of the flashing yellow arrow means the intersection will have a green arrow soon enough.

[epzik8]

I don't zipper because I don't trust anyone else to do so, and usually I'm right not to.

I generally consider zipper merging to be for idiots.

You're not going to get away with that without at least explaining why.

In some cases, people don't pay attention to signage and only notice the end of the lane at the moment it ends.

[1995hoo]

^^^^

For what it's worth, Maryland is one state that sometimes posts signs encouraging "alternate merging" (although, because Maryland drivers are what they are, when I've driven through that particular spot I've seen people straddle the line in a "thou shalt not pass" posture, I've seen people floor it to try to race ahead to pass as many people as possible, I've seen people trying to fight people in the other lane at the actual merge point....).

[SEWIGuy]

I don't zipper because I don't trust anyone else to do so, and usually I'm right not to.

I generally consider zipper merging to be for idiots.

Zipper merging is much better than having a long line of slow traffic next to one where people are going near full speed to the merge point. There is a reason DOTs promote zipper merging. It creates a more safe traffic situation.

[epzik8]

I don't zipper because I don't trust anyone else to do so, and usually I'm right not to.

I generally consider zipper merging to be for idiots.

Zipper merging is much better than having a long line of slow traffic next to one where people are going near full speed to the merge point. There is a reason DOTs promote zipper merging. It creates a more safe traffic situation.

Got it.

[wanderer2575]

Wherever people do not turn when the opposing lane is clear with a flashing yellow arrow, that is a place where responsibilities on the local citizenry should be reduced, for they have proven themselves to be buffoons.

I would certainly just pull out (if possible) and go around said person and make my turn. If the traffic is too heavy to allow that, well, at least the fact of the flashing yellow arrow means the intersection will have a green arrow soon enough.

Not here in Oakland County MI, where all FYA signals have leading lefts.  Many a time have I channeled CrashIt and leaned on the horn because of being stuck behind some dolt not understanding than one may turn on said FYA when no oncoming traffic.  I'm usually stopped too close to the dolt to be able to pull around; I need to start keeping some space there.

[1995hoo]

Wherever people do not turn when the opposing lane is clear with a flashing yellow arrow, that is a place where responsibilities on the local citizenry should be reduced, for they have proven themselves to be buffoons.

I would certainly just pull out (if possible) and go around said person and make my turn. If the traffic is too heavy to allow that, well, at least the fact of the flashing yellow arrow means the intersection will have a green arrow soon enough.

Not here in Oakland County MI, where all FYA signals have leading lefts.  Many a time have I channeled CrashIt and leaned on the horn because of being stuck behind some dolt not understanding than one may turn on said FYA when no oncoming traffic.  I'm usually stopped too close to the dolt to be able to pull around; I need to start keeping some space there.

I may have been unclear about, or you may have misunderstood, what I meant by "have a green arrow soon enough." I didn't mean the green arrow would necessarily come on at the end of the cycle. Certainly there are places where that will often happen—the Charlottesville area,* in particular—but it's not common where I live. All I meant is that while you might have to wait through a light cycle before the green arrow comes on, there will be a green arrow. It could be a seemingly long wait depending on the particular light, but then I also think the light almost always seems longer than it really is when you're waiting for it to turn green.

BTW, of course I also recognize that my comment above saying I would go around the person if possible is doing something that's not necessarily safe or legal. A cop would probably say you risk causing a crash if you pull in front of the person right as he wakes up and decides to go. That's true. If there were a cop around, I probably wouldn't try to go around the idiot, but I'd certainly make liberal use of the horn.

*In Charlottesville it's quite common for one direction to get a green left-turn arrow and a green light for traffic going straight at the same time while the other side has full red. Then the green arrow will change to flashing yellow and the traffic going the other way will get a flashing yellow for left turns and a green for traffic going straight. Then the first direction will get a full red and the second direction will get the green arrow at the end of the cycle. (I'll admit I'm not 100% sure about whether there is ordinarily a flashing yellow arrow when the other direction has both the green arrow and the green for traffic going straight. Charlottesville implemented the flashing yellow arrows within about the past five years and I've only made one trip down there in the past few years.) I believe mtantillo of this forum told me that particular way of operating the light cycle is called "lead-lag," regardless of whether you use the doghouse signals that used to be the norm in Virginia or whether you use the flashing yellow arrow.

[vdeane]

And in fact, the situation is not just that ODOT doesn't promote zipper merging... zipper merging is actually illegal in Oklahoma! And check out the signage—that's standard workzone signage there!

Hmmm...7+ year old article and zero laws cited. Black-on-white signage may be enforceable, fine, but I'm not aware of any state statutes requiring merging the moment "lane ends" signs appear. In fact, as far as I know, most of the time the onus is simply on the ending lane to yield at the taper.

They do have a "state law - merge now" sign pictured, which is dumb; if you want to close the lane there, then close the lane there, don't have it open but not allow anyone to use it!  That said, the cop strikes me as an early merger who is upset at "those people" and found himself in a position of power.  He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about with respect to what's more efficient.

Most of the time, I've seen late mergers trapped at the cones as a solid train of traffic trundles past them with nobody letting them in. (This is, again, based on Oklahoma. I don't yet have enough experience in Nevada work zones to know what the culture is like here. I don't have high hopes, though, given that in Las Vegas, stoplights are treated as mere suggestions, as though they were advisory speed signs that happen to come in fun colors. Oh, and license plates are apparently optional.)

As @webny99 mentioned, around here, people wouldn't wait to be let it - they'd force their way in whether the traffic in the continuing lane likes it or not, and the only way to stop them would be for everyone to tailgate each other to physically prevent them from having the space to do so.  But if people don't (and often even if they do), they'll take what little space exists, begin edging into it, and your choice will be "allow them to get in front or get in a crash".

Either way, the zipper merge simply *not being actively promoted by a state DOT* doesn't nullify the concept or its purpose, nor does it mean it's something drivers shouldn't be aware of.

I think this may be a bit of Northeastern bias in play here. The states west of the Mississippi are way bigger than you think they are—if I hopped on US-95 northbound I wouldn't leave Nevada (and thus see any DOT practice besides NDOT) for nine hours. Now, that's a kind of extreme example since Las Vegas is at the south end of the state, but even in Oklahoma, which is quite a bit smaller, the largest metro area is at least 100 miles away from a state line in any direction; people are definitely not leaving the state on a whim. As a result, most people in Oklahoma don't leave Oklahoma on a regular enough basis to even be aware of what other DOTs are doing, much less become familiar with their work zone practices.

I think arguably the bigger factor is that said large states are simply a lot less populous, and the population they do have is a lot more spread out, so work zones are less likely to create major backup issues to begin with. Early merging works fine until it doesn't - and the time period when it doesn't could be 12+ hours a day on a major interstate east of the Mississippi, while it's likely to be a more intermittent issue in a state like Oklahoma, especially outside of OKC/Tulsa.

Serious question, how do you know if you're right to or not?

Most of the time, I've seen late mergers trapped at the cones as a solid train of traffic trundles past them with nobody letting them in. (This is, again, based on Oklahoma.

This definitely seems like a cultural thing - and I wouldn't be shocked if it is related to less willingness to engage with other drivers due to higher rates of gun ownership and concealed carry.

In the Bos-Wash corridor in particular drivers are too aggressive to let that happen - in heavy traffic taking turns at the merge is the expectation and if it's unclear, whoever is pushier gets in first. But no one would ever come to a complete stop because of being unable to merge - they'd never get anywhere if they did.

I don't yet have enough experience in Nevada work zones to know what the culture is like here. I don't have high hopes, though, given that in Las Vegas, stoplights are treated as mere suggestions, as though they were advisory speed signs that happen to come in fun colors. Oh, and license plates are apparently optional.)

Based on the other behaviors you describe, it seems more likely that late mergers would either take turns or push their way in rather than get stuck at the merge point. To a certain extent, the bigger the city the more aggressive the drivers tend to be.

I think how often people leave the state is also a cultural thing.  Along the East Coast, leaving the state is routine even for people who would have to drive more than half an hour to do so.  But even other states east of the Mississippi, there are people who don't regularly travel out of state, even if it wouldn't take that long to do so.  Just look at every debate in the Michigan threads over E-ZPass interoperability, and the people who say "Michigan doesn't have toll roads, why should we be compatible with E-ZPass", as if traveling out of state is a once in a lifetime adventure.  Heck, growing up, I can count on my hands the number of times I was out of state (excluding crossing over to Canada during trips to the 1000 Islands where we stayed on the US side and counting trips to the 1000 Islands where we stayed in Canada as a single time out of state).

[Scott5114]

Hmmm...7+ year old article and zero laws cited.

Will a scholarly journal article do for a cite?

I think arguably the bigger factor is that said large states are simply a lot less populous, and the population they do have is a lot more spread out, so work zones are less likely to create major backup issues to begin with. Early merging works fine until it doesn't - and the time period when it doesn't could be 12+ hours a day on a major interstate east of the Mississippi, while it's likely to be a more intermittent issue in a state like Oklahoma, especially outside of OKC/Tulsa.

You're missing my point.

Someone from Central Oklahoma who doesn't travel a lot is unlikely to have much experience driving in other states, because it takes a few hours of driving to reach another state. Since Oklahoma doesn't run zipper merges (they're illegal), an Oklahoma driver is not going to spontaneously try a zipper merge  because they probably do not know such a thing exists.

[jakeroot]

Hmmm...7+ year old article and zero laws cited.

Will a scholarly journal article do for a cite?

The most interesting part for me was when they say ** more states (even back in 2007) were already adopted the zipper merge (called then, "late merge"):

While few states appear to be utilizing the early merge strategy, it was interesting to note that the late merge strategy is a much more commonly used strategy that is being experimented by the states. Seven states (18 percent of those surveyed) indicated that they have made use of the late merge or the dynamic late merge strategy, at least at specific locations. One of the main benefits cited by engineers is that the late merge strategy is effective in reducing queue lengths, so the likelihood of a queue extending beyond the advance warning area is reduced.

Even back then, while it didn't have a name yet, the "late merge" strategy was becoming more common. Still seems weird to call merging where the lane ends a "late merge"...seems there may be some bias in the research.

There are also rather frequent grammatical errors. Right in the abstract...how does that slip by? Engineers aren't normally the best at spelling or grammar, but then if engineers are the only ones doing the research...that may not be advisable since human behavior plays a big part in how successful these various types of merges are going to be. Personally, zippering seems to be the only one that will ever work with humans because taking turns is such a basic human "thing", even if we joke that "ioWA dRiveRS nEVeR taKE tuRnS" or whatever.

**edited for clarity.