NFL (2020-2024)

[jgb191]

Well I didn't start watching the NFL until 2002, but since the league had 32 teams only 13 teams have won the Super Bowl, which means the Cowboys are just one of 19 teams that had not won a Super Bowl this century.  So if you're going to blame Jerry, then blame the owners/executives of all those other teams who failed to make it too.

The Dallas Cowboys last appeared in the NFC Conference Championship game in 1995. The only other NFC team to have a longer appearance drought was that Washington team in 1991. As for the AFC teams, there are two again: Miami Dolphins in 1992 and the Cleveland Browns in 1989.

Also hadn't the Buffalo Bills had a drought that lasted decades until the 2021 AFC Conference Championship appearance?  Also when have you ever seen my Texans in a conference championship?  We're the only team in NFL History to have never made one. So that's two more teams.  So I stress again: the Cowboys aren't alone in postseason futility.  And I'm sure any one of those teams would love to trade history with the Cowboys.

[webny99]

The Cowboys sure aren't alone in postseason failures, but they are alone in having the weight of high expectations Every. Single. Season.

Most teams come and go from the news cycle, but the Cowboys are a permanent fixture, and their owner does play a significant role in that whether you like it or not... and not just because of his status and tendencies to gab to the media. It's also because the team has drafted pretty well during his tenure, so they're consistently too talented to ignore.

[Max Rockatansky]

Sure you can ignore the Cowboys.  What have they actually done on-field this last three decades that is actually substantial?  If any other fan base was building their entire identity around what happened in January 1996 they would be mocked relentlessly. 

[ZLoth]

Also hadn't the Buffalo Bills had a drought that lasted decades until the 2021 AFC Conference Championship appearance?

Prior to 2020, the Buffalo Bills had a AFC Championship appearance in the 1993 season. Being in the same division as the Patriots didn't help.

Also when have you ever seen my Texans in a conference championship?

The Houston Texans became a NFL team in 2002.

[webny99]

Sure you can ignore the Cowboys.

Sure, you and I can ignore them fine. My comment was about sports media and the NFL institutionally. We have decades of proof that they can not ignore the Cowboys even if one could argue that they should.

If any other fan base was building their entire identity around what happened in January 1996 they would be mocked relentlessly.

To be fair, the Cowboys are mocked plenty by their division rivals and casual fans across the league. There are plenty of examples of such in this very thread.

[Big John]

Sure you can ignore the Cowboys.  What have they actually done on-field this last three decades that is actually substantial?  If any other fan base was building their entire identity around what happened in January 1996 they would be mocked relentlessly. 

Or another team in 1985.

[SEWIGuy]

The loss to the Packers is going down as the most catastrophic wild card round loss of all time. The other one that comes to mind is the Double Doink, but that Bears team didn't have much of a future anyway. They weren't good enough at QB or head coach, and the shelf life of an elite defense is painfully short.

We had a real team with elite young players. And we slammed our own window shut in 28 minutes of game clock.

Perhaps the Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones should fire the Dallas Cowboys GM Jerry Jones.

Yeah because everyone knows that Bill 0'Brien would be a better GM than Jerry Jones.  I don't know of any other GM that would have done any better.

Jerry and Stephen (who should be mentioned, the split of power between the two is unclear but they're both heavily involved) have been fine as executives. They draft well which is the biggest thing. People trash on the Zeke contract from 2019 but 32/32 teams would have done the same thing at that time.

A valid criticism of Jerry is that he needs to shut the hell up. But Jerry is unequivocally not the main problem. The problem is what happened on the field last January. The Jonses put together a team that was far too talented for that to happen.

Of course he's the problem. He's been the one constant figure in place overseeing all of their failures since 1995. Incompetence filters down from the top.

Had this argument with someone else a while back.

The obvious counterpoint is that by your same logic, you must believe that Robert Kraft and Clark Hunt are two of the greatest figures in the game right now.

"Greatest figures in the game?" Hardly. But they are clearly better owners than Jerry has been. They have hired football people to be good football people. They have fired general managers that failed, and hired new ones and given them space to succeed. Jerry insists he knows what he is doing in the football end, but he doesn't.

[SEWIGuy]

Well I didn't start watching the NFL until 2002, but since the league had 32 teams only 13 teams have won the Super Bowl, which means the Cowboys are just one of 19 teams that had not won a Super Bowl this century.  So if you're going to blame Jerry, then blame the owners/executives of all those other teams who failed to make it too.

The Dallas Cowboys last appeared in the NFC Conference Championship game in 1995. The only other NFC team to have a longer appearance drought was that Washington team in 1991. As for the AFC teams, there are two again: Miami Dolphins in 1992 and the Cleveland Browns in 1989.

Also hadn't the Buffalo Bills had a drought that lasted decades until the 2021 AFC Conference Championship appearance?  Also when have you ever seen my Texans in a conference championship?  We're the only team in NFL History to have never made one. So that's two more teams.  So I stress again: the Cowboys aren't alone in postseason futility.  And I'm sure any one of those teams would love to trade history with the Cowboys.

Yes, there are a number of bad franchises in the NFL. I'm not sure how that disproves my point that Jerry Jones has been a subpar owner and a failure as a GM.

[SEWIGuy]

Let me put it another way about the Cowboys. When the Super Bowl was established after the 1966 season, the Cowboys participated in the NFL/NFC championship 12 times in 17 seasons. This is why they were given the label "America's Team" right? When the NFL was ascending in popularity, the Cowboys were the epitome of constant success.

When the team faltered, and Jerry Jones bought it, they had another run of four straight championship games from 1992-95. And while Jones did own the team, Jimmy Johnson has been widey credited for being the one who built those teams.

Since then, they have gone 28 seasons without reaching a conference championship game!

[jgb191]

The Cowboys sure aren't alone in postseason failures, but they are alone in having the weight of high expectations Every. Single. Season.

Bingo!  You just nailed it.  The source of the Cowboys falling short every year are the pressures caused by the fans and media.  When you're a perennial 12-win team (and a playoff team) every year for the last several years, you have a very competitive team.  Jerry Jones has put together very competitive teams, but the players feel so much pressure in the playoffs.  If the fans and media would ease up on expectations, the team probably would have made at least one Super Bowl this century (I would speculate).

Now if the Cowboys a losing record every year, then it would have been the GM's (in this case Jerry's) fault.

[SEWIGuy]

The Cowboys sure aren't alone in postseason failures, but they are alone in having the weight of high expectations Every. Single. Season.

Bingo!  You just nailed it.  The source of the Cowboys falling short every year are the pressures caused by the fans and media.  When you're a perennial 12-win team (and a playoff team) every year for the last several years, you have a very competitive team.  Jerry Jones has put together very competitive teams, but the players feel so much pressure in the playoffs.  If the fans and media would ease up on expectations, the team probably would have made at least one Super Bowl this century (I would speculate).

Now if the Cowboys a losing record every year, then it would have been the GM's (in this case Jerry's) fault.

I don't think they have significantly greater pressure than players on most teams. They're soft. Some of that is coaching, some of that is just who they are.

[webny99]

When the team faltered, and Jerry Jones bought it, they had another run of four straight championship games from 1992-95. And while Jones did own the team, Jimmy Johnson has been widey credited for being the one who built those teams.

Since then, they have gone 28 seasons without reaching a conference championship game!

I don't see the debate as being around whether they've failed, because that's objective and we can all agree that they have. It's around whether and to what extent that failure is the GM/owner's fault. While there is room for nuance, everything is not always their fault - just as one hyper-specific example, "13 seconds" was not Bills GM Brandon Beane's fault, nor the Pegula's (Bills owners) fault.

Of course, there are many different aspects of the team over which the owner has control - roster building and management is a big one and the Cowboys have done OK in that area under Jerry Jones. Financial success of the organization is another - also a big check for the Cowboys. But managing expectations is another, and the Cowboys have been simply atrocious at that under Jerry Jones.

When you take all those aspects into consideration, Jerry Jones has been far from a perfect owner but also not a downright terrible one, and certainly far from the worst in the league. (If you think he's just a terrible person and that makes him a terrible owner, you are entitled to that opinion, but that's another conversation for another day.)

[SEWIGuy]

I think Jerry Jones is a poor GM. No other franchise would put up with nearly three decades worth of post-season failures without making a change in that role. He's hired seven coaches during that timeframe as well.

An example is just this off-season. He waited and waited and waited for the Lamb and Dak extensions. To the point where they were last on the market, which caused their values to sky-rocket.  He had lost all leverage with both. No good GMs do this. You wrap up the extensions early on so you can manage the cap number better.

[thspfc]

The Cowboys sure aren't alone in postseason failures, but they are alone in having the weight of high expectations Every. Single. Season.

Bingo!  You just nailed it.  The source of the Cowboys falling short every year are the pressures caused by the fans and media.  When you're a perennial 12-win team (and a playoff team) every year for the last several years, you have a very competitive team.  Jerry Jones has put together very competitive teams, but the players feel so much pressure in the playoffs.  If the fans and media would ease up on expectations, the team probably would have made at least one Super Bowl this century (I would speculate).

Now if the Cowboys a losing record every year, then it would have been the GM's (in this case Jerry's) fault.

Of course, there are many different aspects of the team over which the owner has control - roster building and management is a big one and the Cowboys have done OK in that area under Jerry Jones. Financial success of the organization is another - also a big check for the Cowboys. But managing expectations is another, and the Cowboys have been simply atrocious at that under Jerry Jones.

It's not about expectations. At all. To play in the NFL, let alone become a star, a player needs an incredible level of confidence. And the more they succeed - through high school, college, the draft, signing that first contract, having a breakout season - the more confidence is built. Most people can't relate.

To us fans it might be about how things are "supposed" to go. To the guys who actually determine the outcome, that's background noise. 32/32 teams go into every game believing they will win. 32/32 teams react the same way after a loss. Doesn't matter what outsiders thought was going to happen.

[jgb191]

More teams came to mind for me;

Until 2022, didn't the Bengals also have decades of playoff futility??   Also read somewhere that until 2020, the Chiefs never had a successful season before.

I can't remember ever hearing about the Lions, Vikings, Redskins/Commanders, Jets, Chargers, or Raiders having a successful season in decades.  The Bears, Cardinals, and Falcons only had one Super Bowl season that I can remember.  Of course three of our four AFC South division never saw much success, and no Super Bowl appearance that I know of.  So again, the Cowboys are not the only team in the NFL with decades of postseason shortcomings.

But then again, I had zero interest (and slim-to-none knowledge) in the NFL before my Texans debuted in 2002, so I really don't know much of what happened before then, but I'm fairly sure what I've said about these teams is pretty accurate.

[1995hoo]

More teams came to mind for me;

Until 2022, didn't the Bengals also have decades of playoff futility??   Also read somewhere that until 2020, the Chiefs never had a successful season before.

....

The Chiefs did play in Super Bowls I (lost to Green Bay) and IV (beat Minnesota), as well as winning the 1962 AFL championship as the Dallas Texans in the pre–Super Bowl era, but they had years of futility after that before breaking through in Super Bowl LIV.

[triplemultiplex]

I enjoy the schadenfreude when Dallas keeps flailing in the playoffs because that "America's team" BS was so obnoxious in the 90's when I was a kid.

It also felt like those 90's Cowboys were the originators of the "head case" skill position players that are so ubiquitous in the league now.  You know what I mean; those wide receivers who have a tantrum on the sidelines when they don't get the ball thrown at them enough.  Or they're always whining to the refs over every bit of contact downfield. Or constant off-field issues with drugs or hitting women or worse.  Adult babies who have been told they're great they're entire lives by everybody and it's made them entitled. Even if they have genuine skill, it goes to their head. It's annoying to see a millionaire superstar whining like a child.

And it feels like it all started with the 90's Cowboys and cats like Michael Irvin and Dion Sanders.  Paved the way for the Randy Mosses and Chad Ochocincos Johnsons and Deshaun Watsons of the world.  That's probably not even true, but it feels true so I'm going with it.

[Big John]

More teams came to mind for me;

Until 2022, didn't the Bengals also have decades of playoff futility??   Also read somewhere that until 2020, the Chiefs never had a successful season before.

I can't remember ever hearing about the Lions, Vikings, Redskins/Commanders, Jets, Chargers, or Raiders having a successful season in decades.  The Bears, Cardinals, and Falcons only had one Super Bowl season that I can remember.  Of course three of our four AFC South division never saw much success, and no Super Bowl appearance that I know of.  So again, the Cowboys are not the only team in the NFL with decades of postseason shortcomings.

But then again, I had zero interest (and slim-to-none knowledge) in the NFL before my Texans debuted in 2002, so I really don't know much of what happened before then, but I'm fairly sure what I've said about these teams is pretty accurate.

Bears lost SB XLI (2006 season) in addition to their 1985 win. Falcons lost SB XXXIIII (1998 season) and SB LI (2016 season)

[webny99]

Of course, there are many different aspects of the team over which the owner has control - roster building and management is a big one and the Cowboys have done OK in that area under Jerry Jones. Financial success of the organization is another - also a big check for the Cowboys. But managing expectations is another, and the Cowboys have been simply atrocious at that under Jerry Jones.

It's not about expectations. At all. To play in the NFL, let alone become a star, a player needs an incredible level of confidence. And the more they succeed - through high school, college, the draft, signing that first contract, having a breakout season - the more confidence is built. Most people can't relate.

To us fans it might be about how things are "supposed" to go. To the guys who actually determine the outcome, that's background noise. 32/32 teams go into every game believing they will win. 32/32 teams react the same way after a loss. Doesn't matter what outsiders thought was going to happen.

I do think expectations are a big deal for the Cowboys specifically. The weight of their history and being America's team means they're expected to be great every season in a way that no other teams is to the same extent. That kind of pressure can mess with player's minds when they're constantly in the spotlight, and leads to a lot of noise and distractions that other teams don't have to deal with.

And I definitely don't think all players on all 32 teams are expecting to win every week.. especially bad teams at the end of lost seasons. How about last year's Panthers, for example? Sure they're professional athletes and sure they have a ton of confidence relative to an average person, but constant losing would have anyone feeling pretty defeated and lacking true belief in their ability to win, especially knowing the opponent is even more talented and probably has a whole lot more to play for.

[Max Rockatansky]

Give it enough time and that "legacy history" will become meaningless.  I recall the Browns were once held in high esteem by my father's generation thanks to the 1950s era exploits of the Jim Brown led teams.  Nobody thinks of the Browns as being on the "historic level" anymore.  Give it another ten to twenty years and people will probably think the same of the Cowboys.

The Cowboys haven't been "great" since the mid-1990s.  "Mostly Good" is not the same thing as great.

[webny99]

It seems like there is less and less separating the contenders from the pretenders in the NFL these days, which makes the forking concept even more unpredictable. But there's no fun in being right all the time, so I attempted to bucket each conference into four groups of four, and whoever is in the last group will be forked.

AFC
Super Bowl contenders:
Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, Ravens
Quality playoff teams:
Browns, Dolphins, Jets, Texans
Chance of making the playoffs:
Broncos, Chargers, Colts, Jaguars
Forked:
Patriots, Raiders, Steelers, Titans

NFC
Super Bowl contenders:
49ers, Lions, Packers, Rams
Quality playoff teams:
Cowboys, Eagles, Falcons, Seahawks
Chance of making the playoffs:
Bears, Bucs, Giants, Cardinals
Forked:
Commanders, Panthers, Saints, Vikings

My NFC forks are looking about as disastrous as possible... though it does look like literally any NFC team could realistically make the playoffs, so who knows. Definitely not adding to the list for a few more weeks, though the Jaguars and Bengals are on watch.

[hobsini2]

The Cowboys sure aren't alone in postseason failures, but they are alone in having the weight of high expectations Every. Single. Season.

Most teams come and go from the news cycle, but the Cowboys are a permanent fixture, and their owner does play a significant role in that whether you like it or not... and not just because of his status and tendencies to gab to the media. It's also because the team has drafted pretty well during his tenure, so they're consistently too talented to ignore.

And failing every single season to my delight! The Cowboys are not America's Team.

[JayhawkCO]

I'm a more conservative forker this year:

NE, LV, DEN, NYG

Adding CAR. Should have probably done them before the season, but the NFC South used to produce some surprises. But they looked like hot garbage.

Probably can add TEN and JAX now.

Also, still happy to take the MIN o/u 4.5 wins bet!!

[hobsini2]

I'm a more conservative forker this year:

NE, LV, DEN, NYG

Adding CAR. Should have probably done them before the season, but the NFC South used to produce some surprises. But they looked like hot garbage.

Probably can add TEN and JAX now.

Also, still happy to take the MIN o/u 4.5 wins bet!!

I will admit. Minnesota is playing some great defense. But are they really that good or did we overrate SF and HOU? Next 3 games I think will be a good indicator.

[JayhawkCO]

I'm a more conservative forker this year:

NE, LV, DEN, NYG

Adding CAR. Should have probably done them before the season, but the NFC South used to produce some surprises. But they looked like hot garbage.

Probably can add TEN and JAX now.

Also, still happy to take the MIN o/u 4.5 wins bet!!

I will admit. Minnesota is playing some great defense. But are they really that good or did we overrate SF and HOU? Next 3 games I think will be a good indicator.

I knew the defense would be pretty good this year. We showed signs last year and then hit free agency pretty hard on the defensive side of the ball. I don't think there are too many questions about the skill position players outside of the QB spot, so if Darnold can continue to not turn the ball over and just hit the open man, I think we'll be pretty tough this year. Once we get Hockenson back from injury at tight end, that'll just open up everything for Jetts a lot more too.